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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Any big Kira fans?

    So, I've been having a discussion with a friend over whether or not Light was doing the right thing.

    What are your thoughts? Was he man who became a god, or a psychopathical killer?
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    the answer is no he is not a good person nor a smart person and is a punisher style narcissist. The reason is based on what he does, the limitations of his powers, and his naïve world view.

    The people he murders are in two categories.
    1 criminals that are convicted and
    2. people in his way.

    the problem with 1 is that those people are already in custody and being given society's punishment. he is just going over the top of that to give his decided judgment which is death. for number 2 those people are generally good people and thus a murderer to make it so he can continue his judgments. He believes his judgment is above other government or peers as again they are being punished he just overrides them. The problem light has from being any good or the god he hopes to be is he lacks omniscience. Criminals that are convicted could be innocent. criminals not caught can be unpunished. he has no way to know if he is meeting out his judgments correctly and this is the hugest flaw in his world view. he believes him being god will make the world a better place however his lack omniscience destroys that. sure crimes rate would initially go down due to fear but the moment someone discovers his murder or crimes are unpunished he know he can continue. and God gets torn down as uncaring or lack of action means the murders are divine providence. The system falls as misinformation, false conviction, divine murderers start happening with a god that can't determine who should be kill and who shouldn't. It turns into a murdering mess and at the end of he only sows chaos. light doesn't seem to realize this and so I describe him as a punisher styled narcissist.

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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Plus, as I recall he starts killing more and more trivial crimes. Death for shoplifting. Death for jaywalking. Death for allowing your dog to bark between the hours of 7 PM and 7 AM.

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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Plus, instead of being saddened that his endgame goal required the sacrifice of otherwise good people, he sadistically celebrated the fact that he was able to engage in such murders.

    Such things are not the qualities of a good person.
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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Very early on justice literally means nothing to Light. It's incredibly, painfully obvious that he doesn't give a crap about justice or fixing the world by, like, the 2nd or 3rd volume. The comic basically comes out and says that like thirty times, slapping you in the face with the smelly glove that is Light's god complex.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    I noticed he will kill even without a conviction
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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Death Note is a very crappy universe, where you can't truly say that anyone is good - L and Kira are both megalomaniacs, who gleefully sacrifice others in order to fuel their ego. Light's idea of justice had me listening to him until he proclaims himself "god of new world", which happens, like, in the first episode or so.

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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyena View Post
    Death Note is a very crappy universe, where you can't truly say that anyone is good - L and Kira are both megalomaniacs, who gleefully sacrifice others in order to fuel their ego. Light's idea of justice had me listening to him until he proclaims himself "god of new world", which happens, like, in the first episode or so.
    Light, L, Near, Misa, and Mello are all pretty dubious characters. I wouldn't say that about everyone though - Saya seems like a solidly good person, Matsuda seems like a solidly good person, Light's father seems like a solidly good person, Ray Penber and his wife both appear to be good people.

    As for Light specifically, he's a mass murderer operating a reign of terror. Yeah, crime is down, but it comes at the cost of everyone living under the threat of death, and with people being killed for increasingly petty "crimes", up to and including seeming lazy. Even if only the results are looked at and Light's ridiculous god-complex is completely ignored, things look bad.
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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    I haven't read the manga, just seen the anime. So bear that in mind in case this ends up being wildly contradictory with the manga or something.

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    Light, L, Near and Mello are all more or less representations of different ideals of justice. Their megalomania is just a manifestation of how that fact plays out within the story. It also makes a lot of their more ridiculous moments more acceptable in retrospect.

    Light has the ideal of justice that might makes right. He has the might. So he is right. Whatever he thinks is justice because he's the one with the power to enforce it. His eventual descent into more and more trivial abuses of his power is just symptomatic of this ultimate idea.

    L's desire to get absolutely solid proof before taking action makes a lot more sense when you consider him to be the manifestation of our modern sense of justice. Assuming innocence until proven guilty. Belief that the punishment should be proportional to the crime. Etc... He's not a person. If he didn't get the proof he needed, he wouldn't be upholding the ideal.

    Near and Mello are both people who want to claim the mantle of justice L represented. Near's sense of justice is more or less the same as L's.

    Mello is a revolutionary whose only clear goal is to overthrow the current tyrant. If he has any actual intention to fulfill L's sense of justice, he thinks those methods don't actually matter at all until he's overthrown the current despot. In fact, his only real goal may be to just becoming the tyrant himself and imposing his own ideals of justice on everyone while claiming he's a reformer fulfilling the previous ideals of justice. (Him thinking that the ends justify the means may also indicate he would never actually meet L's ideals, even if he intended to. As excuses not to act according to the ideal would always crop up.)

    The fact that Near and Mello are allied against Light proves to be Light's downfall for how his concept of justice cannot succeed forever. Because while Light had temporarily won, there will always be the old ideals of justice and its adherents, and new tyrants seeking to claim the same authority. And both will be allied against him.

    Despite the dark tone, the show actually is kind of optimistic with this message. That sort of thing usually isn't pulled off very well in fiction. But here, it was great.

    This became more clear to me when I eventually realized Light was supposed to be a villain protagonist. At first I thought he was just a phenomenally botched antihero. I spent most of my first viewthrough wondering why we were supposed to like Light instead of hating him and everything he stood for.

    I first was introduced to the series by someone who (evidently) thought Light was doing the right thing. Given that was my context for my first viewing, I don't think I've ever hated a character more.

    I'm glad I stuck through it to the end, though. My opinion about that has turned around more than I think anything else I've ever seen.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerMug Paladin View Post
    I first was introduced to the series by someone who (evidently) thought Light was doing the right thing. Given that was my context for my first viewing, I don't think I've ever hated a character more.
    That was exactly how I was introduced to the show as well, and now my friend and I are arguing over Light being justice or not. The current stance of which, is arguing whether or not he is a god. With consider "Being a powerful ruler" one of the definitions, is making it hard to argue against.
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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    A god is supposed to be omntipotent and immortal. Light has a very powerful weapon in his hands, but if it makes him a god, then a guy with a shotgun in a medieval world is also a god.

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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Light's just an arrogant egomaniac with a powerful tool few other people have access to. If that makes him a god, that seems like kind of a broken definition.

    Gods can be many different things in mythology. A normal mortal with access to a well-defined tool is not one of them, according to anything I've ever seen. Although I will admit to being largely ignorant of almost all mythology.

    Although if someone asks if you are a god, you should still say yes.
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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Go read the chapters where he kills Naomi -

    /begin sarcasm
    for the horrific crime of figuring out that Kira can kill in ways other than heart attacks.
    /end sarcasm

    Now, go reread how he kills her. You know, by making her contemplate suicide until she does it?

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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyena View Post
    A god is supposed to be omntipotent and immortal. Light has a very powerful weapon in his hands, but if it makes him a god, then a guy with a shotgun in a medieval world is also a god.
    Omnipotent and immortal are by no means required, speaking broadly and avoiding examples here basically any polytheistic or animistic god is short of omnipotent, and a fair few are short of immortality. That doesn't mean Light is a god, but it also makes it a more reasonable assessment than it would be under that definition.

    Personally, if "murderous tyrant" and similar don't get the idea across, I favor "supervillain". He has a power, he uses it to be a murderous tyrant, and occasionally he does it with mustache twirling evil (see: Naomi).
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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyena View Post
    A god is supposed to be omntipotent and immortal. Light has a very powerful weapon in his hands, but if it makes him a god, then a guy with a shotgun in a medieval world is also a god.
    I watched one episode of Deathnote and promptly consigned it to my "Dropped anime" pile, but I've always wondered why Light never made himself into a functionally immortal god using the stupid notebook.

    You've got a book that kills people exactly how you write their deaths in it? Write out something like "After millennia of overseeing humanity as an ageless, Omniscient, and immortal god of justice, seeing his job is done, Light walks peacefully into the afterlife."

    It's like he had an idiot ball that kept him from realizing that success was just a few pen strokes away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norren View Post
    I watched one episode of Deathnote and promptly consigned it to my "Dropped anime" pile, but I've always wondered why Light never made himself into a functionally immortal god using the stupid notebook.

    You've got a book that kills people exactly how you write their deaths in it? Write out something like "After millennia of overseeing humanity as an ageless, Omniscient, and immortal god of justice, seeing his job is done, Light walks peacefully into the afterlife."

    It's like he had an idiot ball that kept him from realizing that success was just a few pen strokes away.
    One of the caveats is that if you write a death that is physically impossible the target just dies of a heart attack fifteen minutes later or something like that. Besides, I think each person already has a day they are fated to die and you cannot extend their life by writing a date that is later than that.
    Last edited by SowZ; 2015-03-25 at 05:18 PM.
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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norren View Post
    You've got a book that kills people exactly how you write their deaths in it? Write out something like "After millennia of overseeing humanity as an ageless, Omniscient, and immortal god of justice, seeing his job is done, Light walks peacefully into the afterlife."
    Doesn't work. The Death Note can only schedule a death about two weeks in advance, and will also default to a heart attack if the conditions specified cannot be fulfilled at the stated time.

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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Ah hah.

    Clearly, I had stopped paying attention by that point. The only caveat I remembered was "you can't write you don't die."
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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Nice thread, I happened to also have the same question. Thank you all.

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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyena View Post
    A god is supposed to be omntipotent and immortal. Light has a very powerful weapon in his hands, but if it makes him a god, then a guy with a shotgun in a medieval world is also a god.
    Nah, a shotgun has very short range, any guy with a longbow could take him out from a distance that the shotgun won't reach. Now, a Snipers Rifle, or at the very least, a machine gun, that would make someone quite powerful in the medieval age ^^ Still not godlike though, gotta sleep sometime and eventually someone's going to get away that got a good look at your face, and then they'll send assassins to kill you. The deathnote made Light near godlike because no-one had a clue who was doing it all the way up until he got way to cocky and way to stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starwulf View Post
    Nah, a shotgun has very short range, any guy with a longbow could take him out from a distance that the shotgun won't reach. Now, a Snipers Rifle, or at the very least, a machine gun, that would make someone quite powerful in the medieval age ^^ Still not godlike though, gotta sleep sometime and eventually someone's going to get away that got a good look at your face, and then they'll send assassins to kill you. The deathnote made Light near godlike because no-one had a clue who was doing it all the way up until he got way to cocky and way to stupid.
    This is a common misconception created by video games. A shotgun has a very reasonable range, and will be accurate farther than the majority of handguns and certainly matches the effective range of any longbow.

    Now, a handgun bullet and even an arrow can fly farther than the buckshot, sure, but even accomplished archers and handgun marksman will have trouble hitting a moving target beyond thirty yards or so, (even then, look at recordings of firefights. Cops at twenty five yards will empty multiple clips before hitting a moving target.) On a target range, both archers and handgun marksman might be hitting targets at a hundred yard if they are very good. But that's a different story altogether.

    A shotgun's effective range is at least fifty yards, though it could still pepper you beyond one hundred if it was aimed right, (though by then the buckshot is significantly less likely to kill or seriously maim you. Unless it is a slug, in which case it will kill you at a hundred and fifty yards.) This outranges pistols and bows considerably. Why do you think a shotgun is preferable to a police officer if a firefight is breaking out?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ View Post
    This is a common misconception created by video games. A shotgun has a very reasonable range, and will be accurate farther than the majority of handguns and certainly matches the effective range of any longbow.

    Now, a handgun bullet and even an arrow can fly farther than the buckshot, sure, but even accomplished archers and handgun marksman will have trouble hitting a moving target beyond thirty yards or so, (even then, look at recordings of firefights. Cops at twenty five yards will empty multiple clips before hitting a moving target.) On a target range, both archers and handgun marksman might be hitting targets at a hundred yard if they are very good. But that's a different story altogether.

    A shotgun's effective range is at least fifty yards, though it could still pepper you beyond one hundred if it was aimed right, (though by then the buckshot is significantly less likely to kill or seriously maim you. Unless it is a slug, in which case it will kill you at a hundred and fifty yards.) This outranges pistols and bows considerably. Why do you think a shotgun is preferable to a police officer if a firefight is breaking out?
    I know the range of a shotgun, I'm a country person and I own a shotgun. I'd still prefer a snipers rifle or an M16 if I was stuck in the medieval age, it would make me MUCH more godlike since I could kill people at a longer range much quicker then a shotgun(the M16) or just pick a grassy hill and wipe out an entire village, then go write a note and leave it for someone else to find and build my reputation up that way.

    Police officers want them in a firefight because they have a nice spread, allowing them to take out multiple targets at once, which yeah that's great, but who wants to get within even 100 yards of someone that is out to kill you? An m16 has an effective range of nearly 500 yards, 5x that of your shotgun. Yeah, it has no spread, but it's rate of fire more then makes up for that. A snipers rifle, a good one anyways, can allow you to make shots from nearly a mile out if you are very skilled.
    Last edited by Starwulf; 2015-03-30 at 07:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Any big Kira fans?

    You mean the sociopathic cartoonishly evil villain protagonist of Death Note? The guy so unambiguously and over the top evil it borders on self-parody? That guy? Was that guy doing the right thing?

    I'm going to go with: No. In fact I'm going to go with: If you think it was anywhere remotely close to ambiguous you've probably got some self-reflection to do. Seriously does the guy need to have Hitler stache and start beating babies with to death with kittens he's set on fire or something?
    Last edited by Mr.Moron; 2015-03-30 at 07:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starwulf View Post
    I know the range of a shotgun, I'm a country person and I own a shotgun. I'd still prefer a snipers rifle or an M16 if I was stuck in the medieval age, it would make me MUCH more godlike since I could kill people at a longer range much quicker then a shotgun(the M16) or just pick a grassy hill and wipe out an entire village, then go write a note and leave it for someone else to find and build my reputation up that way.

    Police officers want them in a firefight because they have a nice spread, allowing them to take out multiple targets at once, which yeah that's great, but who wants to get within even 100 yards of someone that is out to kill you? An m16 has an effective range of nearly 500 yards, 5x that of your shotgun. Yeah, it has no spread, but it's rate of fire more then makes up for that. A snipers rifle, a good one anyways, can allow you to make shots from nearly a mile out if you are very skilled.
    Only a sawed off shotgun nearing the end of its effective range can reasonably take out multiple targets at once. A normal shotgun will have a spread of maybe nine or inches at the end of its effective kill range. At the point that the spread exceeds a foot or so, no police officer would expect to get a kill shot with any reliability at all. Hitting two targets would be a freak enough incident that it is not a reason cops use them.

    The advantages of a shotgun are A. more accuracy due to spread. B. more range than a handgun but still better in close range than most rifles. C. fairly powerful. D. slide action is less liable to jam than semi-auto.

    The spread allows you to strike targets with more ease, however.

    Anyway, I fully admit that a shotgun can't outrange even a basic rifle, much less an M16 or a sniper rifle. Those are superior options, sure. Hell, there've been confirmed kills from well over a mile on several occasions. One british sniper made two such kills on the same day, each over a mile and a half if memory serves. My contention isn't that it stands up to an assault rifle. Just the claim that they have less range than a longbow or handgun, which is a commonly held but inaccurate belief. While a longbow arrow and a handgun bullet might be able to travel further than buckshot, their effective range in an actual firefight will be less.
    Last edited by SowZ; 2015-03-30 at 08:08 PM.
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    Range

    The range of the medieval weapon is not accurately known, with much depending on both the power of the bow and the type of arrow. It has been suggested that a flight arrow of a professional archer of Edward III's time would reach 400 yd (370 m)[23] but the longest mark shot at on the London practice ground of Finsbury Fields in the 16th century was 345 yd (315 m).[24] In 1542, Henry VIII set a minimum practice range for adults using flight arrows of 220 yd (200 m); ranges below this had to be shot with heavy arrows.[25] Modern experiments broadly concur with these historical ranges. A 667 N (150 lbf) Mary Rose replica longbow was able to shoot a 53.6 g (1.89 oz) arrow 328 m (359 yd) and a 95.9 g (3.38 oz) a distance of 249.9 m (273.3 yd).[26] In 2012, Joe Gibbs shot a 2.25 oz (64 g) livery arrow 292 yd (267 m) with a 170 lbf yew bow.[27]

    Directly from Wikipedia. Granted it does state they are not 100% on the actual range due to no surviving longbows from those times, and the fact that replicas only seem capable of reaching 359yards, that is still 3x the range of a Shotgun, which definitely lends significant credence to my original statement that yes, a longbow would in fact have more range then a shotgun, and therefore after you go on just one rampage to try to cow the locals, they'll just have a line of archers equipped with longbows waiting for you to get within range to just turn you into one giant pincushion. Saying that, I still stand by my opinion that no, a shotgun would not make you a god in Medieval times, not even remotely close to one. As long as they have weapons that can reach you long before you can reach them, you're still just a normal person in their eyes. A dangerous one, but I'm sure they dealt with dangerous people all the time in those days.

    Where did you get your stats for the shotgun spread? I've spent the last 30 minutes trying to find some stats on the actual spread of pellets for Riot Shotguns & Tactical Combat Shotguns, and for both all I can find is "It depends on XXXX"(admittedly, I didn't pay attention to WHAT affected the spread, just that there was a factor that decreased/increased the spread), but absolutely no site I could find, not even wiki, had anything about the maximum total spread. I saw one link that claimed 27 inches, but that was a heavily modified riot shotgun that also had a heavily modified load-out for the shells themselves.

    Edit: I think I may have found something on the spread. Apparently, according to this person anyways, you can expect a spread of one inch by X amount of feet the pellets have traveled. Looks like it's about 1 inch per 3 feet, as the person states 16 inch spread for traveling 50 feet. So it does look like you were right about the spread. I'll admit to have never paid attention to the spread when I've shot my 12 gauge, I guess I'll have to take it out back sometime and fire into a piece of plywood to see how well it matches up.

    "Some misconceptions may exist regarding the spread of shotgun pellets or balls. It is not enough to merely point the shotgun in the general direction of an assailant and let fly. Birdshot or buckshot does not create a huge cone of death and destruction that devastates everything in its path. Rather, for a defense or "riot" shotgun with an 18- to 20-inch cylinder or improved cylinder choked barrel, the pellets will spread out about one inch for every yard of range traveled. Across a large room of 18 feet or so, the spread will only be about 6 inches, a circle as big as a coffee cup saucer. At 50 feet, the spread will only be about 16 inches, the size of a large pizza. It is obvious from these patterns that a shotgun blast will not incapacitate multiple assailants at close range. Each would have to be given "individual attention"."
    Last edited by Starwulf; 2015-03-30 at 10:50 PM.

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    The distance a projectile can go and the effective range of the weapon against a single target are not the same thing. At the extremes of range, even the best archers are generally going to miss (particularly as it actually takes a few seconds for the arrow to reach the target, by which time they could easily have moved somewhat unpredictably).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starwulf View Post
    Range

    The range of the medieval weapon is not accurately known, with much depending on both the power of the bow and the type of arrow. It has been suggested that a flight arrow of a professional archer of Edward III's time would reach 400 yd (370 m)[23] but the longest mark shot at on the London practice ground of Finsbury Fields in the 16th century was 345 yd (315 m).[24] In 1542, Henry VIII set a minimum practice range for adults using flight arrows of 220 yd (200 m); ranges below this had to be shot with heavy arrows.[25] Modern experiments broadly concur with these historical ranges. A 667 N (150 lbf) Mary Rose replica longbow was able to shoot a 53.6 g (1.89 oz) arrow 328 m (359 yd) and a 95.9 g (3.38 oz) a distance of 249.9 m (273.3 yd).[26] In 2012, Joe Gibbs shot a 2.25 oz (64 g) livery arrow 292 yd (267 m) with a 170 lbf yew bow.[27]

    Directly from Wikipedia. Granted it does state they are not 100% on the actual range due to no surviving longbows from those times, and the fact that replicas only seem capable of reaching 359yards, that is still 3x the range of a Shotgun, which definitely lends significant credence to my original statement that yes, a longbow would in fact have more range then a shotgun, and therefore after you go on just one rampage to try to cow the locals, they'll just have a line of archers equipped with longbows waiting for you to get within range to just turn you into one giant pincushion. Saying that, I still stand by my opinion that no, a shotgun would not make you a god in Medieval times, not even remotely close to one. As long as they have weapons that can reach you long before you can reach them, you're still just a normal person in their eyes. A dangerous one, but I'm sure they dealt with dangerous people all the time in those days.

    Where did you get your stats for the shotgun spread? I've spent the last 30 minutes trying to find some stats on the actual spread of pellets for Riot Shotguns & Tactical Combat Shotguns, and for both all I can find is "It depends on XXXX"(admittedly, I didn't pay attention to WHAT affected the spread, just that there was a factor that decreased/increased the spread), but absolutely no site I could find, not even wiki, had anything about the maximum total spread. I saw one link that claimed 27 inches, but that was a heavily modified riot shotgun that also had a heavily modified load-out for the shells themselves.

    Edit: I think I may have found something on the spread. Apparently, according to this person anyways, you can expect a spread of one inch by X amount of feet the pellets have traveled. Looks like it's about 1 inch per 3 feet, as the person states 16 inch spread for traveling 50 feet. So it does look like you were right about the spread. I'll admit to have never paid attention to the spread when I've shot my 12 gauge, I guess I'll have to take it out back sometime and fire into a piece of plywood to see how well it matches up.

    "Some misconceptions may exist regarding the spread of shotgun pellets or balls. It is not enough to merely point the shotgun in the general direction of an assailant and let fly. Birdshot or buckshot does not create a huge cone of death and destruction that devastates everything in its path. Rather, for a defense or "riot" shotgun with an 18- to 20-inch cylinder or improved cylinder choked barrel, the pellets will spread out about one inch for every yard of range traveled. Across a large room of 18 feet or so, the spread will only be about 6 inches, a circle as big as a coffee cup saucer. At 50 feet, the spread will only be about 16 inches, the size of a large pizza. It is obvious from these patterns that a shotgun blast will not incapacitate multiple assailants at close range. Each would have to be given "individual attention"."
    It does depend a lot on the shell and what you are hunting. Shorter chokes and certain loads might get to 16" at 50 feet where you are the most effective kill range, but I'd imagine most shotguns would be more like 9 or 10, maybe 12 inches. I mispoke earlier by the way, it will definitely be more than 9" within the kill range but that refers to the most effective range, (less than thirty yards.) My point still stands, though, that no cop takes a shotgun because they expect to hit multiple targets in one shot.

    Anyway, I fully admit that an arrow has a further maximum range, but a shorter effective range. Hitting a moving target beyond thirty yards reliably takes a lot of skill. Beyond sixty or so and you are getting very difficult, whereas that is a fairly easy shot for a shotgun.

    Here, this article states that at 60 feet the spread might be as much as 12". http://codegreenguns.com/2011/10/the...for-a-shotgun/
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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ View Post
    It does depend a lot on the shell and what you are hunting. Shorter chokes and certain loads might get to 16" at 50 feet where you are the most effective kill range, but I'd imagine most shotguns would be more like 9 or 10, maybe 12 inches. I mispoke earlier by the way, it will definitely be more than 9" within the kill range but that refers to the most effective range, (less than thirty yards.) My point still stands, though, that no cop takes a shotgun because they expect to hit multiple targets in one shot.

    Anyway, I fully admit that an arrow has a further maximum range, but a shorter effective range. Hitting a moving target beyond thirty yards reliably takes a lot of skill. Beyond sixty or so and you are getting very difficult, whereas that is a fairly easy shot for a shotgun.

    Here, this article states that at 60 feet the spread might be as much as 12". http://codegreenguns.com/2011/10/the...for-a-shotgun/
    Thanks for the article! As I said, you were right about the spread, I always thought that shotguns had a much wider spread then that, hence why I said the multiple target bit. I guess even owning a shotgun doesn't necessarily mean you know everything about it. I knew the range, but definitely not the spread :)

    As far as the arrows bit, I would think though, that if you used the shotgun in those times in order to inspire fear and cow the local populace, that once they've figured out it's maximum range, there will be no "A few archers from a distance" trying to kill you, they will quickly(just because they didn't have technology doesn't mean they were stupid, by any means) realize just how dangerous you are, and they will pull a "300" on you and blot out the sun with arrows in order to kill you ^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starwulf View Post
    Thanks for the article! As I said, you were right about the spread, I always thought that shotguns had a much wider spread then that, hence why I said the multiple target bit. I guess even owning a shotgun doesn't necessarily mean you know everything about it. I knew the range, but definitely not the spread :)

    As far as the arrows bit, I would think though, that if you used the shotgun in those times in order to inspire fear and cow the local populace, that once they've figured out it's maximum range, there will be no "A few archers from a distance" trying to kill you, they will quickly(just because they didn't have technology doesn't mean they were stupid, by any means) realize just how dangerous you are, and they will pull a "300" on you and blot out the sun with arrows in order to kill you ^^
    That's a decent point. Twenty or thirty archers could likely get a lucky hit in before you closed to your effective range. With a good assault rifle and a crow's nest, on the other hand, you'd only be limited by your ammunition as to how many men you could defend against. It would literally take a small army to overwhelm you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ View Post
    That's a decent point. Twenty or thirty archers could likely get a lucky hit in before you closed to your effective range. With a good assault rifle and a crow's nest, on the other hand, you'd only be limited by your ammunition as to how many men you could defend against. It would literally take a small army to overwhelm you.
    What if they just wait for you to fall asleep, then smash your head in with a rock.

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