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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Talakeal's Avatar

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    Default This is how normal people game.

    So last year one of my old high school friends mentioned to me that he had started a new gaming group with his cousins. Since then I have been running an occasional game for his group when I was in town. It is a several hour drive so I don't game with them often, just once every couple of months.

    The last game I was running for them was a western zombie apocalypse game. The players were a group of bounty hunters on the run from the law and they had holed up in a small fortified frontier town. The town was beset by zombies and under quarantine, and the sheriff had taken the quarantine as an excuse to go mad with power and set up a small scale totalitarian police state. The game was going really well, the players were doing excellent and seemed to be having a lot of fun, but the game ran long and I said I would put it on hold and continue it next time.

    Well, next time happened to be this weekend, and it turned out to be a disaster.

    Now, keep in mind that he invited me to come visit and chose the time and place for the game, I was not forcing myself onto him.

    So as I am driving to me friends house he asks me how long the game has left. I say 2-3 hours, and he says ok, but we should try and make it quick because the group is hoping to finish early and get back to their normal D&D game. I should have taken this as a bad sign and found an excuse to turn around, but I didn't. When I got into town my friend announced that he was too tired and needed to take a nap before the game, so I sat in his living room playing with my iPad for four hours (keep in mind this is after I had woken up early to drive a couple hundred miles to his house). When he finally wakes up we head over to the game several hours late.

    During the game session everyone is extremely distracted. They are texting and playing on their phones and watching videos and leaving the room for snacks. Now, I am normally fine with this, I am a pretty lax GM, but are the same time they are complaining that we aren't going to have enough time for their D&D game.

    Then they are all joking around the entire time. Every time they state and IC action or speak to an NPC they make at least one joke first.

    Eventually the final showdown with the corrupt sheriff and his posse occurs. The party, still joking and being distracted, starts doing really weird things. I had a suspicion they were trying to get themselves killed so they could get back to their D&D game, but I am still trying to stay positive and run the game as straight as I can. They don't synergize any strategy, they don't focus fire, they waste their resources on trivial things, and one person actually runs away and hides in a corner instead of fighting. They do some really bizarre stuff, like the wimpy little intellectual character decides to stand in front of the big burly tough guy "tank" character and soak up fire for him.

    Considering their tactics they actually do really well and end up winning, albeit with most of their resources expended. In the aftermath of the battle a group of heavily armed bounty hunters who had been tracking their party fight their way into the town and tell the PCs to surrender.

    Now, from an OOC perspective they can do whatever they want, this isn't a railroad. They can fight, run, surrender, or do whatever else they want. This is NOT a heavy handed force the players to be captured plot, and I indeed when I ran this adventure for my previous group they decided to stand and fight and took down the bounty hunters with little problem.

    The players though, decide that they don't have enough resources left to kill the bounty hunters, and so surrendering isn't an option. Each one decides to go for a different crazy last move path. One character grabs a bag of dynamite, pretends to surrender to the bounty hunters, and then sets himself on fire to blow everyone up. One decides to blow a hole in the wall of the town and let the zombie horde in (keep in mind that there are numerous civilians as well as the other PCs still in the town). One decides to commit sepeku (literally). One decides to just jump over the wall into the mass of zombies and run for it.

    So we have three PCs dead by their own hand and one suicidally running through the zombies. The town is in chaos and most of the NPCs will soon join them. The guy who was running asks me if he survived. I tell him that it is unlikely as he is by himself and wounded vs. a horde of zombies (note that if the whole party had chosen this route they could have fought their way through), but it was up to him as the rest of the game was dead and would need to make new characters if we continued this anyway, maybe he survived, maybe he got eaten, maybe rocks fell and everyone died. I then break face for the first time and say "Epic end to the game. Sure glad I drove 200 miles for this."

    So I pack up my stuff and tell them they can get back to their D&D game, but they decide it is too late and that they just want to call it a night.

    On the drive back to my friend's house he calls me a killer DM. I, flabbergasted, respond that they killed themselves and that I did everything in my power to keep them alive. I then said that I don't understand what went wrong, the last session went to well, but tonight it seemed like everyone was just acting completely at random with no regard to their own characters (or their party or the NPCs) safety and joking about everything.

    Then, my friend gave me a big speech about how the problem was with my perspective. I am used to gaming with a bunch of wierdos and crazy people. He then made reference to the many gaming horror stories that I have previously told him (and which anyone who has been following my posts on this forum will probably be aware of). He told me that I just wasn't used to gaming with NORMAL people and didn't know how to handle it. That unlike my friends they are all well adjusted and have careers and families, and that this is how NORMAL people act during a game, and that I am just not used to dealing with people who are more socially adjusted than myself.

    I just sat there in silence. When we got back to his house I told him that if that was what normal people were like at the gaming table than I was glad to be such a freak. His response was "Well, don't worry about. I am pretty sure NO ONE wants you to game with us ever again."

    I then decided that I didn't really want to visit anymore and decided to just drive back that night instead of staying with him. Not sure if I will be talking to him in the future.


    So, that's my story. Not really sure what to think about, and I don't really have a question for the forum. I just needed to share this story with someone. Anyone have any comments or thoughts on the situation?
    Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    In future, when the players seem distracted and as if they'd rather be doing something else, don't power through. Take a break and ask how it's going and whether they'd like to do something else. If so, just do that. They'll be more engaged with it and less likely to goof around.

    The way your story reads, you strung them out way past the point where they were interested, which sounds like just after the end of the first session. I'm not sure why you didn't end the game after the fight with the corrupt sheriff, or why you thought confronting this group with bounty hunters ordering them to surrender was a good idea.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Talakeal's Avatar

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beta Centauri View Post
    In future, when the players seem distracted and as if they'd rather be doing something else, don't power through. Take a break and ask how it's going and whether they'd like to do something else. If so, just do that. They'll be more engaged with it and less likely to goof around.

    The way your story reads, you strung them out way past the point where they were interested, which sounds like just after the end of the first session. I'm not sure why you didn't end the game after the fight with the corrupt sheriff, or why you thought confronting this group with bounty hunters ordering them to surrender was a good idea.
    They seemed really focused during the previous session. I had just driven for several hours (and then sat around waiting for several more) to the game, and it seems like a huge waste to spend all that time (and gas) to come all the way out there and not play.



    Now, as for the second part, I had already designed this adventure before running it, and as I said the previous group fought and killed the bounty hunters relatively easily. I did not just pull an unbeatable grudge monster out of my butt. I could have changed the ending, but I was (foolishly in retrospect) considering the possibility of turning this into an ongoing campaign, and I wanted to end it on some sort of dramatic note with a clear direction for the future, which if it had just ended at that point it wouldn't. Also, if the players had lost the fight with the sheriff the bounty hunters serve as an easy out from the situation.

    If you are saying that I should never have enemies ask the players to surrender, I guess that is a lesson in reading your players. Most people like having choices. In retrospect maybe they thought it was a railroad type situation and where actively trying to derail it rather than an option.
    Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    They seemed really focused during the previous session. I had just driven for several hours (and then sat around waiting for several more) to the game, and it seems like a huge waste to spend all that time (and gas) to come all the way out there and not play.
    I'm not saying don't play, I'm saying play what the players want to play. They didn't want to play this, despite how the previous session went. Playing what the players don't want to play is always a waste of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    Now, as for the second part, I had already designed this adventure before running it, and as I said the previous group fought and killed the bounty hunters relatively easily. I did not just pull an unbeatable grudge monster out of my butt. I could have changed the ending, but I was (foolishly in retrospect) considering the possibility of turning this into an ongoing campaign, and I wanted to end it on some sort of dramatic note with a clear direction for the future, which if it had just ended at that point it wouldn't.
    It just seems like you had a lot of stuff preplanned and weren't able to adjust to the situation. You mention reading your players, and they seemed to be giving you a lot of clear signals. There needed to be some more communication. Maybe they wouldn't have been honest, or maybe they would have realized that they were sending the wrong message or something, but there needed to be a "Hey, do you guys really want to be playing this, because it seems like you don't." and maybe some "If you're not into this, I can go another way with it."

    I'm not sure why you thought it would be ongoing. Didn't your friend say they wanted to finish and get back to their regular game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    Also, if the players had lost the fight with the sheriff the bounty hunters serve as an easy out from the situation.
    I don't think they wanted an out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    If you are saying that I should never have enemies ask the players to surrender, I guess that is a lesson in reading your players. Most people like having choices. In retrospect maybe they thought it was a railroad type situation and where actively trying to derail it rather than an option.
    Yeah, "surrender" isn't really much of a choice. A lot of people are going to see "surrender" as "we have to fight" because surrender, to a lot of people, seems like not very much fun: like death, only they can't just make a new character. You offered it to these players and they saw their choices as "surrender" (no), "initiate an unwinnable battle" (no), or "go out on their own terms." They really only had one choice.

    All your assumptions about how they should fight and what they should choose to do are what resulted in you powering through when you should have stopped or paused, and resulted in them thinking of you as a killer GM. They could have been more mature as well, and the stuff about "normal people" was not very classy (though I can understand the sentiment), but in terms of what you could have done, I think it's: communicated more, been more flexible, and focused on ending the game quickly.

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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    That just seems really weird and rude of them. I mean, it sounds like they didn't really want to play and just joked/sabotaged the game to get it over with. They shouldn't have bothered calling you out there if they didn't want to finish the game.

    I don't think that is how "normal" people react, by doing weird stuff and trying to kill off their characters when they don't feel like playing. They would say they don't feel like playing. If they felt obligated to play, you'd think they would also feel obligated to continue in a respectful way.

    Sorry that this sort of thing happens.

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Soldier on being a freak, I say. Normal people can be too politically correct to tell you not to go all that way because they don't really feel like playing.
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    I'm sorry it was so bad for you. I know it's hard, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. Sometimes what works one time doesn't another. I've had similar experiences that have made me very sensitive to the mood of the group. If I think people are too distracted or disinterested I'll just call the game or take a break to get food, watch a show, or work on characters. Sometimes focusing on something else can break a spell, sometimes not.

    What causes this? Who knows? Maybe RL player stresses, personality conflicts, fatigue, fatty foods, the weather, gamma rays, a full moon. Whatever it is, I want people to remember the game as a positive experience. It's worth it for me to call it off than to have it go sour.

    Sometimes players don't even recognize that they're being distracted until you say, "why don't we continue this another time". Then they'll suddenly put away their devices and become more attentive, "no no, let's do this now!"

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Well, it is difficult to judge the situation as we only have your point of view, but sometimes people are just in a different mood and enjoy different things, without there being anyone to blame. The fact that they wanted to get over with it is a huge warning sign, but of course it is also easier to see in retrospect. Still, it's a bummer, and I can understand that you are not happy about it.

    Your friend, however, was quite rude. Calling someone less adjusted in this context is more than inappropriate, especially amongst friends. If they want to joke around all the time they are welcome to do so, but enjoying a different play style is not a sign of being socially inept.

    I would also like to say that NPCs demanding surrender is not railroading but perfectly reasonable for them. After all, it's a saver way than fighting.
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    There is no such thing as normal. If you think your not weird, your just aware of yourself enough. I would not game with anyone who declares others "freaks" and "weirdoes" just because they roleplay differently.

    All of humanity are weirdoes. Some of us just can't seem to stand someone else's flavor of weirdness.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


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    Flumph

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    The way NORMAL people play (and I consider myself normal) and act is to have a bit of respect for the person who put out their time and energy to provide some entertainment in the form of a game.
    It might have been family game night or DnD, but it makes no matter. Poker, charades, roleplaying...
    you may not have hosted the get together, but the least they could do is respect your input.
    I hope you find a better or have a better group to game with in the future.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    @OP: Taking a broad view of popular media, I'd say normal people don't play Dungeons & Dragons. You're all a bunch of grown men pretending to be elves, fairies, and gnomes. For fun. The word "normal" shouldn't even cross your minds.

    Then again, my aunt's favorite saying is "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    I don't think it's normal to have someone drive 200 miles and then blow them off, no. It struck me, from your perspective, as being rude. Sure some people just prefer a light beer and pretzel kinda game, but this is just not cool.

    You are right, you should have taken an early hint that they where not interested, but I can be pretty oblivious myself when I'm excited about something.
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    I game with all kinds of people. Athletes, stoners, engineers, mill and construction workers, tradesmen, horticulturalists, lawyers, programmers, businessmen/women, chefs, single, married, married with kids, gay, straight, various ages. I'm a trades guy with a good job and a wife and kid. I'm sure at least some of us would be considered "normal" by "normal" people.

    None of us would pull any of that stuff.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Normal people know how to be polite. Your friend has extremely low standards for normal.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    So, that's my story. Not really sure what to think about, and I don't really have a question for the forum. I just needed to share this story with someone. Anyone have any comments or thoughts on the situation?
    I have to mostly agree with Beta, the take away lesson here is don't waste your time (or your players) playing something they don't want to play. It ends in frustration both for you and the players. That isn't to say you did anything "wrong" per se, but that you misread the situation and pushed yourself and your players beyond where you should have. Sometimes your players aren't in the mood to game, or to take the game seriously. And it's not always a matter of them "being rude" or even not liking your game, sometimes everyone is just in a weird mood. On those days it's best to do something else. And sure it sucks when you have very limited time, and rare opportunities to game, but it's all part of the gaming experience especially if you're irregularly joining an otherwise regular group. I have some friends that I manage to get together with maybe twice a year to game, and drive hours to do that. Sometimes we get an awesome full on blasting game going and other times we barely eke out a single battle. It is what it is and you take the good with the bad.

    As to the specifics of this, again I agree with Beta, given that they didn't seem interested in playing or taking it seriously, wrapping it up after the sheriff would have been for the best. It would have felt a natural stopping point and let them walk away feeling like big damn heroes rather than feeling like the DM was out to kill them. By your own admission, at this point in addition to not being into it IRL, the players were also out of resources and capability IC. When the bounty hunter's showed up, especially if they hadn't been encountered before, it probably looked to them like "grudgey DM is pissed that we killed his BBEG and is going to kill us no matter what we do". At that point, it is actually rather common for "normal" gamers to start taking increasingly suicidal and disruptive actions in game. The mindset is basically if there's no way to win, they're at least going to take the game down with them.

    I would suggest not cutting off all communication with your friend quite yet. In fact, I'd give yourself a day or two to calm down and get a change to view this with a detached eye and ask about what you could or should have done differently and what you missed. I'm not sure that immediately after a dissatisfying game and a ~10-12 hour day (3-4 hours to drive, 4 hours couch camping and another 2-4 hours of gaming) is the best time to get perspective on what went wrong. Emotions are high and nerves are frayed. A few days distance might let you look at everything with a clearer head and even if it ends with not gaming with them anymore, it might give you some future insight into handling something like this before it all goes south.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    There is no such thing as normal. If you think your not weird, your just aware of yourself enough. I would not game with anyone who declares others "freaks" and "weirdoes" just because they roleplay differently.

    All of humanity are weirdoes. Some of us just can't seem to stand someone else's flavor of weirdness.
    In general I agree with you, but if we take Talakeal's stories at their face value (the ones outside of this thread included), then the people Talakeal plays with are often weirder than even most gamers are. The fact is, Talakeal either has the worst luck or the worst judgement in people when it comes to gaming and at best those groups could be described as "amusingly dysfunctional".

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    I sort of simplified the narrative for the sake of telling the story as more post was more about my friend's after game lecture than the events of the game itself.

    For some more elaboration, the bounty hunters actually showed up during the battle with the sheriff and turned it into a four way brawl between the PCs, the Sheriff and his deputies, the Bounty Hunters, and the Zombie Horde, with the townsfolk caught in the middle. I had it set up to be sort of the big showpiece capstone battle for the campaign.

    As it turned out the PCs killed the sheriff, the zombies killed the militia, and the deputies killed the zombies. If, at that point, the players had decided to take any course of action together (sneak away, fight, surrender, negotiate, etc.) the game would have been over and we could have moved on to D&D.

    Instead each PC decided to go off on their own crazy plan without communicating or coordinating with me or with one another. As a result we ended up with a TPK and the town overrun by zombies, which in retrospect I think was what the players had been going for all along.

    I am still not sure why though.

    As I said, the last few session went extremely well and I was considering turning this from a one off adventure into a long term campaign. Up until my friend told me that no one wanted me to come back I thought they were just having an off night and that I was being overly sensitive or misreading their actions as disinterest / distaste in the game.
    Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    During the game session everyone is extremely distracted. They are texting and playing on their phones and watching videos and leaving the room for snacks. Now, I am normally fine with this, I am a pretty lax GM, but are the same time they are complaining that we aren't going to have enough time for their D&D game.

    Then they are all joking around the entire time. Every time they state and IC action or speak to an NPC they make at least one joke first.

    Eventually the final showdown with the corrupt sheriff and his posse occurs. The party, still joking and being distracted, starts doing really weird things. I had a suspicion they were trying to get themselves killed so they could get back to their D&D game, but I am still trying to stay positive and run the game as straight as I can. They don't synergize any strategy, they don't focus fire, they waste their resources on trivial things, and one person actually runs away and hides in a corner instead of fighting. They do some really bizarre stuff, like the wimpy little intellectual character decides to stand in front of the big burly tough guy "tank" character and soak up fire for him.

    Considering their tactics they actually do really well and end up winning, albeit with most of their resources expended. In the aftermath of the battle a group of heavily armed bounty hunters who had been tracking their party fight their way into the town and tell the PCs to surrender.

    Now, from an OOC perspective they can do whatever they want, this isn't a railroad. They can fight, run, surrender, or do whatever else they want. This is NOT a heavy handed force the players to be captured plot, and I indeed when I ran this adventure for my previous group they decided to stand and fight and took down the bounty hunters with little problem.

    The players though, decide that they don't have enough resources left to kill the bounty hunters, and so surrendering isn't an option. Each one decides to go for a different crazy last move path. One character grabs a bag of dynamite, pretends to surrender to the bounty hunters, and then sets himself on fire to blow everyone up. One decides to blow a hole in the wall of the town and let the zombie horde in (keep in mind that there are numerous civilians as well as the other PCs still in the town). One decides to commit sepeku (literally). One decides to just jump over the wall into the mass of zombies and run for it.
    From my experience this is in fact what a typical RPG group is like, yes.

    On the drive back to my friend's house he calls me a killer DM. I, flabbergasted, respond that they killed themselves and that I did everything in my power to keep them alive. I then said that I don't understand what went wrong, the last session went to well, but tonight it seemed like everyone was just acting completely at random with no regard to their own characters (or their party or the NPCs) safety and joking about everything.

    Then, my friend gave me a big speech about how the problem was with my perspective. I am used to gaming with a bunch of wierdos and crazy people. He then made reference to the many gaming horror stories that I have previously told him (and which anyone who has been following my posts on this forum will probably be aware of). He told me that I just wasn't used to gaming with NORMAL people and didn't know how to handle it. That unlike my friends they are all well adjusted and have careers and families, and that this is how NORMAL people act during a game, and that I am just not used to dealing with people who are more socially adjusted than myself.

    I just sat there in silence. When we got back to his house I told him that if that was what normal people were like at the gaming table than I was glad to be such a freak. His response was "Well, don't worry about. I am pretty sure NO ONE wants you to game with us ever again."
    ...This, on the other hand, is not.

    Anyone have any comments or thoughts on the situation?
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    For some more elaboration, the bounty hunters actually showed up during the battle with the sheriff and turned it into a four way brawl between the PCs, the Sheriff and his deputies, the Bounty Hunters, and the Zombie Horde, with the townsfolk caught in the middle. I had it set up to be sort of the big showpiece capstone battle for the campaign.
    With the full admission that I don't even know what system you were playing nor at what power level to say how survivable this would have been, if a DM had thrown something that big at me for a one off campaign, I would probably have assumed they were going for the TPK/Epic Rocks Fall/Big Damn Heroes with Sacrifices outcome and probably would have taken wild actions too. A one shot and a campaign session have different unspoken rules, and one of those tends to be that a one shot can be deadlier, and players can take more risks (and use more of their limited resources) because it's not going to have long term effects.

    Instead each PC decided to go off on their own crazy plan without communicating or coordinating with me or with one another. As a result we ended up with a TPK and the town overrun by zombies, which in retrospect I think was what the players had been going for all along.

    I am still not sure why though.
    And this is where for future games, you should pause and ask them. Seriously there's nothing wrong as a DM with pausing the game and saying "Ok folks, what's the plan here because at the rate you're going, you're all aiming to be pushing daisies in a few rounds." Sometimes miscommunication happens, you think things are going one way (and think you're conveying that to the players) and the players think it's going another way. When things start to go off the rail, it's usually a good time to pause things and figure out what's going on. Maybe they feel like they're being put in a no win situation, maybe they're feeling like they're being railroaded. Maybe they're just having an off day, or maybe they think zombies and bounty hunters and tyrannical sheriffs is a slapstick setup rather than a serious premise. Communication is always the key, and sometimes it's easy to get cut off from the rest of the table behind the DM screen and dealing with all you have to handle to run the game.

    Up until my friend told me that no one wanted me to come back I thought they were just having an off night and that I was being overly sensitive or misreading their actions as disinterest / distaste in the game.
    Like I said, I'd give it a couple days and open up communication again. It still could have been an off night, and just as you might have been misreading them, they might have been misreading you.

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    On the drive back to my friend's house he calls me a killer DM. I, flabbergasted, respond that they killed themselves and that I did everything in my power to keep them alive. I then said that I don't understand what went wrong, the last session went to well, but tonight it seemed like everyone was just acting completely at random with no regard to their own characters (or their party or the NPCs) safety and joking about everything.

    Then, my friend gave me a big speech about how the problem was with my perspective. I am used to gaming with a bunch of wierdos and crazy people. He then made reference to the many gaming horror stories that I have previously told him (and which anyone who has been following my posts on this forum will probably be aware of). He told me that I just wasn't used to gaming with NORMAL people and didn't know how to handle it. That unlike my friends they are all well adjusted and have careers and families, and that this is how NORMAL people act during a game, and that I am just not used to dealing with people who are more socially adjusted than myself.

    I just sat there in silence. When we got back to his house I told him that if that was what normal people were like at the gaming table than I was glad to be such a freak. His response was "Well, don't worry about. I am pretty sure NO ONE wants you to game with us ever again."

    I then decided that I didn't really want to visit anymore and decided to just drive back that night instead of staying with him. Not sure if I will be talking to him in the future.


    So, that's my story. Not really sure what to think about, and I don't really have a question for the forum. I just needed to share this story with someone. Anyone have any comments or thoughts on the situation?
    I think you had a different impression of your relationship with this person than he did. Regardless of how the gaming session went, that's a pretty damn condescending, rude, and excessively offensive (as in it's attacking you rather than the problem) sort of thing to say. I'm a fairly well-adjusted, socially skilled gamer with a career and a family. When I game, I game; I may joke some, but not to the point of excess, and I don't act like my every decision is determined by twitchplay. While I won't comment on running a game the players aren't interested in (it reflects as much on the players as it does on the GM), I will comment on this: Your 'friend' crossed the line with that self-righteous, arrogant, condescending font of bull****. If you feel angry, hurt, and upset about what he said to you, you're justified.
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    This only serves to strengthen my theory that you are actually a resident of some sort of strange parallel dimension where everyone in the gaming community is bugnuts crazy, Talakeal, if this is the baseline of 'normal' for your world.

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    This only serves to strengthen my theory that you are actually a resident of some sort of strange parallel dimension where everyone in the gaming community is bugnuts crazy, Talakeal, if this is the baseline of 'normal' for your world.
    Not just the gaming community - remember, his 'friend' is claiming that these are normal, well-adjusted, socially skilled people.

    Talakeal doesn't just have bugnuts crazy gamers. Everyone in Takworld is loonie.
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    This only serves to strengthen my theory that you are actually a resident of some sort of strange parallel dimension where everyone in the gaming community is bugnuts crazy, Talakeal, if this is the baseline of 'normal' for your world.
    You know, that was kind of his point; that I am so used to bad gaming that it has distorted my perspective and can no longer recognize good gaming when I see it.

    He has heard most of my past gaming horror stories, and as a result he was using them as ammunition to look extra smug and self righteous.
    Last edited by Talakeal; 2015-03-24 at 10:59 PM.
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
    Not just the gaming community - remember, his 'friend' is claiming that these are normal, well-adjusted, socially skilled people.

    Talakeal doesn't just have bugnuts crazy gamers. Everyone in Takworld is loonie.
    your assuming that this friend has an accurate view about what well-adjusted and socially skilled means in Takworld....

    remember: if something is wrong with the brain, how can you trust the brain? I'd take what his friend says about what is "normal" with a grain of salt.
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    I think the point being seriously overlooked here by a number of people is that Talakeal was invited to run the game, and got up early to drive several hours to do so. Saying "Oh well they just weren't wanting to play that day, should have done something else" is bat**** insane given that context. If they didn't want to play, why invite him? Why waste the time and gas to have him drive all the way out there for something you just want to get out of the way so you can get on with playing D&D instead?

    Not to mention the whole weirdness of showing up to the session you're supposed to be running several hours late so your friend who invited you can... take a nap? And this is the friend who is worried about how much time this one shot is going to take away from his D&D session. Early on it's implied 2-3 hours is cutting it close in how much time he wants to give up, and then that same amount of time is wasted literally sleeping through session time?


    It honestly sounds like the group had no interest in playing this zombie game at all, but felt obligated to invite Talakeal back anyway. And then tried to make him look like the bad guy for actually doing it.
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    I think the point being seriously overlooked here by a number of people is that Talakeal was invited to run the game, and got up early to drive several hours to do so. Saying "Oh well they just weren't wanting to play that day, should have done something else" is bat**** insane given that context. If they didn't want to play, why invite him? Why waste the time and gas to have him drive all the way out there for something you just want to get out of the way so you can get on with playing D&D instead?

    Not to mention the whole weirdness of showing up to the session you're supposed to be running several hours late so your friend who invited you can... take a nap? And this is the friend who is worried about how much time this one shot is going to take away from his D&D session. Early on it's implied 2-3 hours is cutting it close in how much time he wants to give up, and then that same amount of time is wasted literally sleeping through session time?


    It honestly sounds like the group had no interest in playing this zombie game at all, but felt obligated to invite Talakeal back anyway. And then tried to make him look like the bad guy for actually doing it.
    Yes, very rude overall, none of it makes sense. There was no reason to even ask him to come all the way out there, knowing they didn't even want to play, and then to act the way he did and talk to him like that after....the whole situation is messed up.
    It's like he purposefully wasted your time and tried to make you look bad. he could have at least let you know that the game would be starting a few hours later than scheduled so you didn't have to leave so early.

    Is your friend normally the DM for the group? It occurs to me that part of the problem they might have had was that they, too, had to wait four hours for the game to start and had distracted themselves with other things and not in a gaming mood by the time he got around to getting the two of you over there. His whole speech is really just covering his own insecurities and failings, as someine who would do that sort of thing (take a nap and show up four hours late), is not a good or dependable DM or player himself, and it would not be surprising if he pulled that kind of thing on the group before. You just had the misfortune of trying to run a game when they were all supremely annoyed, probably because of him.
    Last edited by Thrudd; 2015-03-24 at 11:35 PM.

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    I think the point being seriously overlooked here by a number of people is that Talakeal was invited to run the game, and got up early to drive several hours to do so. Saying "Oh well they just weren't wanting to play that day, should have done something else" is bat**** insane given that context. If they didn't want to play, why invite him? Why waste the time and gas to have him drive all the way out there for something you just want to get out of the way so you can get on with playing D&D instead?

    Not to mention the whole weirdness of showing up to the session you're supposed to be running several hours late so your friend who invited you can... take a nap? And this is the friend who is worried about how much time this one shot is going to take away from his D&D session. Early on it's implied 2-3 hours is cutting it close in how much time he wants to give up, and then that same amount of time is wasted literally sleeping through session time?


    It honestly sounds like the group had no interest in playing this zombie game at all, but felt obligated to invite Talakeal back anyway. And then tried to make him look like the bad guy for actually doing it.
    Well, Talakeal's "friend" invited him, we have no insight as to how much or little the group was involved in that process (or if they even knew he was coming). And as Thrudd pointed out, it's possible the gaming mood was lost by the start time being late, again because of Talakeal's "friend". But I'll be honest, there are plenty of times my groups have gotten together, perfectly intending on gaming and by the time we all arrive, the mood is lost, that includes the twice a year group. It happens. It sucks, but it happens. Ultimately, as I said, none of Talakeal's groups could be called "normal" by most definitions. And frankly, calling him out just to make him look bad is middle school level prank and pretty excessive for something where they could have just not ever called him back. So either this is just another dysfunctional group and Talakeal continues his bad luck streak, or there was some serious miscommunication somewhere. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt, and so until proven otherwise, I'd suggest Talakeal approach this as a miscommunication issue.

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    This only serves to strengthen my theory that you are actually a resident of some sort of strange parallel dimension where everyone in the gaming community is bugnuts crazy, Talakeal, if this is the baseline of 'normal' for your world.
    This is about my feelings as well. As presented nothing any of the players did in this game seems remotely close to reasonable, let alone normal. Doubly so for the friend in this story.

    It's so awful I can't imagine how anyone would even think to consider they might have been the ones at fault. It makes me think there might be more to the story just because if there isn't this surely should have been bound for one of those long running "Worst player ever?" type threads, rather than this one.

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudd View Post
    It occurs to me that part of the problem they might have had was that they, too, had to wait four hours for the game to start and had distracted themselves with other things and not in a gaming mood by the time he got around to getting the two of you over there. His whole speech is really just covering his own insecurities and failings, as someine who would do that sort of thing (take a nap and show up four hours late), is not a good or dependable DM or player himself, and it would not be surprising if he pulled that kind of thing on the group before. You just had the misfortune of trying to run a game when they were all supremely annoyed, probably because of him.
    I support the above argument.

    In fact, I believe the "friend" above has actually sabotaged Talakeal from the start, and he never wanted the game to conclude. Below are my guesses of what could have happened, based on a single account of the game. (I could well be wrong.)

    - I am guessing the "friend" was the one who invited Talakeal on behalf of his gaming friends, even though he didn't really want to himself. (He was just picked because he knew Talakeal longest.)
    - The "friend" admitted he did not want to spend more than 2-3 hours on this western zombie game, and then proceeds to sleep for 4 hours.
    - The "friend" also mentioned that the other players wanted to play their regular D&D game after the zombie game concluded. His nap made that impossible, but he proceeded to sleep anyway.
    - Because Talakeal and the "friend" arrived four hours late at the comic store, the other players had already been bored and annoyed for four hours.
    - After the zombie game ended, there was no more time for the D&D campaign, because it was already so late.
    - I am guessing that afterwards, the "friend" blamed Talakeal for everything: the four-hour delay, the boredom, and the fact that the D&D game had to be canceled. Oh, and he also said that he didn't enjoy the zombie game. He probably found the others in agreement on all those points.
    - Finally, the "friend" proceeds to call Talakeal and tells him the game was bad, that Talakeal is crazy, and that "nobody wants Talakeal to play with them again". Note that him saying "everybody says so" does not necessarily mean that he actually talked about it with anyone, he could just be inflating his own opinion.

    Short version:
    The "friend" did not want Talakeal to come over, but somehow could not get out of it. He then proceeded to make Talakeal look bad to the other players, and made sure that Talakeal would not be coming back in the future.

    What could Talakeal have done differently?
    - If Talakeal had turned back after the first phone call (in which the "friend" informed him of only wanting a 2-3 hour game), the "friend" would have told the other players that Talakeal had blown them off and is a jerk.
    - If Talakeal had chosen not to wait for 4 hours during the nap, and gone home, see above.
    - If Talakeal had gone ahead to the comic store while the "friend" napped, he could have apologized on behalf of the "friend", and the group could have done something else to pass the time. The "friend" would have been furious, but the other gamers would not blame Talakeal.
    - Upon arriving 4 hours late, Talakeal could have made it very clear that it was not his own fault, but rather the "friend"'s sleep-deprivedness. Apologies would have to be made. Talakeal should also have checked with the other players if they were still up for any game at all.
    - During the game with all the distractions, Talakeal could have asked the players if anything was wrong, and if they were in the right mood for this game, and then proposed to do something else if nobody was enjoying themselves.
    - During the phonecall after the game had ended, Talakeal could have told the "friend" that he was being unfair, and told the "friend" that he was to blame for the fiasco, and he knew it. And probably hung up if the rant continued after that. ("I don't have to listen to this. Bye. [click]")

    At this stage, there is probably nothing that can be done. The situation has already played itself out. The gaming group is a lost cause, at least for Talakeal.
    There is only one thing that Talakeal can still do, and that is to contact the "friend" one more time, to calmly explain that he felt the "friend" was entirely unfair, that taking a four-hour nap during game time while the other players were already waiting was what ruined the game, and that blaming that on Talakeal is not what friends do. If the "friend" apologises, then at least the friendship can be salvaged (and it probably wasn't even intentional, just carelessness). If not, I would advise to exclude the "friend" from any future games and to cut off all contact.

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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    You know, that was kind of his point; that I am so used to bad gaming that it has distorted my perspective and can no longer recognize good gaming when I see it.

    He has heard most of my past gaming horror stories, and as a result he was using them as ammunition to look extra smug and self righteous.
    The problem is, he's one of them. He can be smug and self-righteous all he wants, that doesn't change the fact that he's one of those socially maladjusted, bizarro-world players himself.

    He's a tomato who hasn't yet looked in the mirror.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    your assuming that this friend has an accurate view about what well-adjusted and socially skilled means in Takworld....

    remember: if something is wrong with the brain, how can you trust the brain? I'd take what his friend says about what is "normal" with a grain of salt.
    Considering all of Talakeal's other stories...
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    Default Re: This is how normal people game.

    I can't tell if people are using "friend" (in quotes) to imply that this person is not a friend or to imply that they're rolling for disbelief of said person existing. Either way, I've decided that New Mexico is a rip in reality and have removed it from my bucket list. This is further reinforced by the one time I decided to drive from Orange, TX to El Paso and realized that the hills had eyes right around Ft. Stockton.

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