Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated

[RoyVG]

You two were both on a dating site, you started chatting, and, in your own words, "it sorta clicked immediately".

Whose unbelievably weird idea was it to decide to go out of your way to state that your first date would officially NOT be a date for some utterly bizarre and unfathomable reason...?!?

I mean, I could understand if you went to the movies with a co-worker, for example -- the default assumption might not be that it's a date. But you two met on a dating site, and you apparently had enough initial chemistry to justify going on a date in person, which you did. But this dating-site-generated date was apparently not one... and then, that girl who's active on a dating site seems to say she wants to keep you around, but only as a friend.

What actually happened IMHO is that it went well at first (online contact and discussion), but after you two spent some time together in person during your first date, she pretty much knew then that she wasn't that into you. Which is fine, that's the beauty of dating sites: quick screening, next!

And then you went on a second not-date. That one could've been avoided.

Edit: I disagree with you when you say that no girl so far accepted to go on a date with you: this one just did. So you're doing something right, at least more than you think.

We never specifically said it was a date that first and second time. The first time I asked if she wanted to meetup and the second time was basically an extension of the first because we disussed it. During our second meeting we got talking about why we made an account and she said she did mostly because she was losing contact with friends very fast and she still wanted some people to talk to. She also felt some form of jealousy for her friends because they were getting hit on or were going on dates, while she was ignored by everyone, something I can definitvely relate to, becasue that was also a reason I signed up months ago (among other reasons). The thing is, the site has an option to mention you are only looking for friendship but she didn't do that.

She did say it may change but she didn't want to give me any false hope, I'm just going to continue being a friend and we will see where the ship sails me. I'm afraid however that at some point I will be guilt-tripping her into trying something, and if I do that, I'll lose her as a friend.

[dehro]

She did say it may change but she didn't want to give me any false hope.

In my experience, this most likely is her way of saying "It's never going to happen but I don't know you well enough to trust you won't make a scene if I just tell you you're just not my type." the offer of friendship can be a thing, but you need to pay attention to whether you're doing all the work or if she comes looking for you unsolicited. If you find that you're always the one initiating contact, then break it off. She was just being polite and might not even be interested in you as a friend (that or she seriously needs to work on her social skills.. There's always the possibility that she's one of those people for whom friendship equates to take, take take, and then are surprised that they can't hold on to friends).

[Serpentine]

The best way to meet THAT person is to meet people. The best way to meet people is to know peopl. And the best way to know people is to meet people. And son, you just meet people. This isn't a failure, this is an accomplishment - you approached someone, you talked to them, you engaged with them, you met up and enjoyed each other's company, and then you bit the bullet, took a chance and had a go at taking it that step further. That didn't go the way you wanted it to, but it doesn't end there. You have another friend - that alone is a point better than where you were before. But more than that, she might not be for you, but she or someone she knows may well know someone who is.
Enjoy that new connection and cultivate it. Because you never know who she might introduce you to.

[RoyVG]

Thank you all for your support and sharing your thoughts.

[lio45]

We never specifically said it was a date that first and second time.

When two people meet via a dating site, start courting each other with online messages, and mutually agree that they seem to have enough chemistry at this stage to greenlight a move on to the next step which is meeting in person for the first date, the clear default assumption is that that date is a bona fide date, not "spending time with each other strictly as friends". In fact it's IMO weird to even have to ask "... this is a date, right?" because it so obviously is.

If neither of you specifically said anything, then it was clearly a date.

Unless you missed her clear and explicit warnings from the beginning that she was only looking for friends, not a partner... (I'm of course going to take your word that those never came, but, you never know.)

So, yep -- congratulations on getting a date. :)

She did say it may change but she didn't want to give me any false hope, I'm just going to continue being a friend and we will see where the ship sails me. I'm afraid however that at some point I will be guilt-tripping her into trying something, and if I do that, I'll lose her as a friend.

I'd tend to agree way more with dehro than Serpentine on that one. Make sure she's not "using you", just keeping you around for her own self-esteem boost.



....... in fact, I was just watching some How I Met Your Mother yesterday evening (I love that show) and the one that I happened to watch (5th season, 16th episode: "Hooked") describes your case very well from my understanding of it. Sure, it's a comedy show, but sometimes it can be a good source of wisdom...

[dehro]

the clear default assumption is that that date is a bona fide date, not "spending time with each other strictly as friends". In fact it's IMO weird to even have to ask "... this is a date, right?" because it so obviously is.

If neither of you specifically said anything, then it was clearly a date.

except neither of them seem to have made that assumption, and since they were the ones on the... not-date, we should take their view as prevalent sensation/interpretation on whether it was or not in fact a date.
anyway that doesn't seem to be the issue, as much as the fact that she's not very into him.
that said, you did get to chat someone into meeting twice and possibly (more or less remotely, that's for you to determine) develop a friendship.
that's more than many others do, and you can always do it again, and maybe get luckier with the next girl, so, yay for you.

[lio45]

except neither of them seem to have made that assumption...

Maybe that's just me, but in my mind the fact that the two met on a dating site makes it a powerful default assumption.

The goal of a dating site is to generate dates between people who would not otherwise have bumped into each other. That's what people sign up for.

If you don't -- and BTW, from what we know, I'm really not ready to say that girl isn't actually looking for a partner, she seemed to have simply used the "friend" excuse this time as an easy cop-out instead of saying "next!" more frankly -- then it's your responsibility to state it clearly. This girl didn't.

So, RoyVG, I'd say, keep up the good work, better luck next time. Don't get discouraged that it didn't work out this time, that's normal, happens to everybody. And it's actually better to get to date various girls before you start to narrow it down.

[RoyVG]

lio45 and dehro, thanks again for you opinions. However I don't want this thread to get out of hand wheter or not it was a date. I didn't see it as a date in the most strict interpretation though I would have like it if it was, and she probably didn't see it as such at all, so I hope that clears some things up. I talked to her about meeting up next week again to just hang out, and she said yes, so we'll just continue being friends for the time being.

[Serpentine]

I call double nonsense. Heaps of people use dating sites primarily for meeting new friends, and many petiole prefer to meet on a non date basis before deciding whether to go that next level. Mostly, it's not a date until and unless both parties decide it is.
And what the hell sort of opinion do you have about women if your foray thought is that she must be setting out to "use" him? Jesus. Of course he doesn't HAVE to be friends with her if he doesn't want to (and vice versa), and of course everyone should be aware of boundaries and abuses and whether one is getting what one wants and needs from a relationship, but really these are basic fundamentals of human interaction and it's downright depressing if we have to go over How To Human 101 every time.

[Red Rubber Band]

And what the hell sort of opinion do you have about women if your foray thought is that she must be setting out to "use" him?

This is going a bit too far.

For all you know it could be based in his opinion of humans. Or from past experience where a person has used him, or a friend.

[Xihirli]

UPDATE: Okay, so she's apologised and backed off. I got some teary eyed explanation pertaining to her "struggle" or somesuch that I didn't much care for. The long and short of it is she was projecting these traits on to me because she had gone through her transition all alone and I appeared to be her best shot at solidarity.

She also mentioned wanting to put it behind us and just be friends. I accepted her apology but there's no way I'm quite there yet. It was a super **** thing to do. Forgiveness is one thing but it was becoming straight up bullying at the end and I don't know if I can be "besties" just like that. Maybe in the future, but right now I've had enough of her.

Apparently a mutual friend basically confronted her and said something to the tune of "you're being a jerk, knock it off or we'll kick you out of the club". Don't know what the exact wording was because I wasn't there but, y'know.

I think that's entirely reasonable. If you're willing to forgive her and start over, "start over" doesn't mean "give her friendship." It means treat her as if the first meeting never happened. When someone asks to start over, it can be treated like that person becoming a vampire: They're to be judged independently of the actions of their body before they came to life. As a wise elf once said: "This forest is old... very old." Wait. No. "We should not linger here." That's not it either. "If this is love, I do not want it." No.
Ah:
"Miss Starshine apparently leveled today without our participation."

[Dire Moose]

I found my partner using a dating site almost 10 years ago now. There were an absurd number of choices on that site and those consisted of people with ALL sorts of interests and personality types. Unless you're in a very small community it seems unlikely there wouldn't be some who would post things like wanting to be the ones taking initiative or that they're the more outgoing ones or whatever.

Also anecdotally I know a good number of couples where it was the woman who initiated contact. Social trends are moving more and more towards women being more empowered. While yes, usually the men are still the ones initiating contact, it is certainly something that seems to be trending towards more equal roles.

Overall though, it's likely a numbers game. Among me and my friends probably 75% of them found their significant others via some sort of dating site. That said I live in Montreal which has around 4 million people in its metropolitan area and is fairly liberal, ideology wise. Clearly this is going to allow more variety and choices in people available. If you're living in a small town or somewhere that your ideology is not in the majority, clearly there's going to be more difficulty in finding someone who matches what you're looking for.

That's a major problem for me. I have spent the last year or so constantly on the move. I go to one place for a temporary job lasting a few months, then drive for days to reach the next temporary job, then it's off to another temporary job for a few months, and I can never be certain where I'll wind up next. Paleontology is a field where getting a full-time job is just not possible until you have at least a master's degree or have established yourself as a good worker for several years running, and the only option for me until I can get into a program is to keep moving from internship to internship, crossing several states and provinces every few months and never settling down in one place.

So I cannot say what my local area is, because I don't have a local area. I'm always on the move and finding someone willing to keep up with my constantly shifting location would be really tough. Add my demonstrated lack of social skills and resulting misjudgment of when to take the initiative, and the lack of partners willing to take the lead themselves, and there aren't many options.

And speaking of the original topic. the impression I got from earlier in the thread is that women generally do not go on dating sites and actively look for men. They instead create profiles, wait for men to find them and respond (they usually get lots of responses just by being female), and then choose someone from the responses. Is this correct?

[dehro]

So I cannot say what my local area is, because I don't have a local area. I'm always on the move and finding someone willing to keep up with my constantly shifting location would be really tough. Add my demonstrated lack of social skills and resulting misjudgment of when to take the initiative, and the lack of partners willing to take the lead themselves, and there aren't many options.

And speaking of the original topic. the impression I got from earlier in the thread is that women generally do not go on dating sites and actively look for men. They instead create profiles, wait for men to find them and respond (they usually get lots of responses just by being female), and then choose someone from the responses. Is this correct?

1) you can actually turn that into an icebreaker. You can update your local area as you go along, even anticipate it when you know in advance and say something on the profile to the effect of being new in town. It might even attract those women who are fed up with meeting the same old people every day.
One of the contacts I made on okc was a woman who on her profile said something in the vein of "I'll be moving to x shortly and would love to meet someone who could show me around a bit and introduce me to the best places in town" you could do the same and be even more specific as in "can you point me to the best pizza place/comic book store/museum/Park/whatever else around?"
Someone who is intrigued by your profile might actually use the hook to have something to talk about. Likewise it's conversation fuel for you... What brings you here, how long have you lived here, where are you originally from, I'm looking to rent in that area is it a nice hood.. Etc etc. The conversation hooks are endless
2) yes, on average the odds are still in favour of women, but things are changing, slowly but steadily. It is not so rare anymore for women to browse profiles unsolicited and occasionally seek contact.. Much depends on the website of choice (if it's adult themed you can forget women ever contacting you first), and on the quality of your profile. Do consider that it's still most likely that you're going to have to take the first step more often than not

[SouthpawSoldier]

1) you can actually turn that into an icebreaker. You can update your local area as you go along, even anticipate it when you know in advance and say something on the profile to the effect of being new in town. It might even attract those women who are fed up with meeting the same old people every day.
One of the contacts I made on okc was a woman who on her profile said something in the vein of "I'll be moving to x shortly and would love to meet someone who could show me around a bit and introduce me to the best places in town" you could do the same and be even more specific as in "can you point me to the best pizza place/comic book store/museum/Park/whatever else around?"
Someone who is intrigued by your profile might actually use the hook to have something to talk about. Likewise it's conversation fuel for you... What brings you here, how long have you lived here, where are you originally from, I'm looking to rent in that area is it a nice hood.. Etc etc. The conversation hooks are endless
2) yes, on average the odds are still in favour of women, but things are changing, slowly but steadily. It is not so rare anymore for women to browse profiles unsolicited and occasionally seek contact.. Much depends on the website of choice (if it's adult themed you can forget women ever contacting you first), and on the quality of your profile. Do consider that it's still most likely that you're going to have to take the first step more often than not

This.
My wife (married now for five years) contacted me via OKC. I had posted looking for friends in the area; all of my friends had been met through my ex-wife, and cut me off during/after the divorce. I hadn't lived in the area long, and posted looking for people with shared interests who knew the good eateries (ex had been really closed minded about food) and culture. I was specifically not looking for a rebound relationship, just a friend....our first dinner together lasted 6 hrs of conversation. We clicked incredibly. She moved with me to another state, we got married, and we're about to adopt a child together. We've had some real trials and tribulations due to unemployment and the move, but through it all, she's been a saint. I probably wouldn't be around if it weren't for her*.

I've pried her from her geek closet (when we met, she only was into Harry Potter; now she's a Browncoat dreaming of her own personal TARDIS). I'm one of the lucky few to be married to my best friend. I honestly struggle with how other married guys can enjoy strip clubs and such, or any time away from their spouses. Mine doesn't nag, we understand each other's jokes, and aside from a few areas of my (relative) expertise, conversation with her is intellectually stimulating, be it anthropology, politics, history, scifi, et all.

Spoiler: Possible trigger; safe>sorry

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*I've been diagnosed dysthymic, in and out of therapy for over a decade. My ex was a social worker, who was insistent on treating me according to her diagnosis, and not my doc's. Southpaw_spouse has focused merely on reminding me daily that I matter to her. Far better for my soul and well-being. Her love, and knowing the effect loss would have on her, has been a rock for me through the lows. She doesn't try to change or "fix" me; she just accepts and loves me for who I am.

[lio45]

I call double nonsense. Heaps of people use dating sites primarily for meeting new friends, and many petiole prefer to meet on a non date basis before deciding whether to go that next level. Mostly, it's not a date until and unless both parties decide it is.
And what the hell sort of opinion do you have about women if your foray thought is that she must be setting out to "use" him? Jesus. Of course he doesn't HAVE to be friends with her if he doesn't want to (and vice versa), and of course everyone should be aware of boundaries and abuses and whether one is getting what one wants and needs from a relationship, but really these are basic fundamentals of human interaction and it's downright depressing if we have to go over How To Human 101 every time.

?!?
Did you even read his posts...?

Yeah, some people use dating sites to meet friends -- there's basically always a field that says whether you're looking for a long-term monogamous relationship (which is what most choose) or just friendship. That girl had "looking for a relationship" in there, based on what RoyVG said. She definitely did not have "just looking for a friend", that's for sure.

And if you read this:

During our second meeting we got talking about why we made an account and she said she did mostly because she was losing contact with friends very fast and she still wanted some people to talk to. She also felt some form of jealousy for her friends because they were getting hit on or were going on dates, while she was ignored by everyone

Someone who's just jealous of her friends getting hit on and wanting to get hit on too so she decides to get on a dating site... on her profile she says, as one would expect, "looking for a partner" instead of "looking for friends", which makes total sense since she wants to get hit on... then goes on a couple dates with a guy, but isn't actually interested (by that one)...

It's fine if he wants to continue to hang out with her, but I'd rather point out the obvious red flag warning signs...

[Coidzor]

'Third time's the charm' they always say. Well, not for me.

Spoiler

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About two-three weeks ago I was contacted by a girl on a dating site, and it sorta clicked immediately. We talked for a couple of days over Email and very soon we decided to meet up, but not a date. We spend the day in the city, walking and talking a lot and generally had a good time. We exchanged Skype information soon after and continued our conversation daily. During our meeting we talked about going to the movies together and she said yes. So last monday she came to my place to hang out, we went to see Ant-Man in the evening, and after the movie I brought her home, again not as a date. That takes me to today. Today, after hesitating for hours, I asked if she wanted to go on an actual date and showing my intentions that I wanted to go one step further, and she politely declined, saying she saw me as a friend and nothing else.

I'm really starting to doubt myself and losing any shred of confidence I have left. I've never had any real romantic feelings for people until about one and a half years ago, and I can still count the amount of girls on one hand, and each of them didn't even give me a chance for at least one date. I guess it's also is a blessing, it stops anything before it starts, but it's getting really demoralizing if you are not even offered a single chance.

Maybe I'm not cut out for this relationship-stuff to begin with.

You were basically ****ed from the word go, because you kept investing in her as a potential romantic interest after she'd made it clear that she wasn't interested in you.

We never specifically said it was a date that first and second time. The first time I asked if she wanted to meetup and the second time was basically an extension of the first because we disussed it. During our second meeting we got talking about why we made an account and she said she did mostly because she was losing contact with friends very fast and she still wanted some people to talk to. She also felt some form of jealousy for her friends because they were getting hit on or were going on dates, while she was ignored by everyone, something I can definitvely relate to, becasue that was also a reason I signed up months ago (among other reasons). The thing is, the site has an option to mention you are only looking for friendship but she didn't do that.

Oh. In that case since no one made things explicit, then the default assumption is that, yes, it was meeting up for the purpose of evaluating romantic and sexual interest and it was on her to make it explicit from the word go that she only viewed you as a potential friend.

You did sorta **** up by not segueing the followup into an explicit date, though. And possibly not flirting more in your messages to her.

She did say it may change but she didn't want to give me any false hope

Hah. Too late for that, she already did by saying that it may change.

Silly girl. FYI: There is no hope. It'd take a miracle and not the million to one shot that's actually a sure thing kind, either.

I'm afraid however that at some point I will be guilt-tripping her into trying something, and if I do that, I'll lose her as a friend.

Well, no, you stop being her friend right before you decide to try guilt-tripping her. She just doesn't learn this until you indicate it to her by being a **** by trying to guilt her into dating you.

[Glass Mouse]

You did sorta **** up by not segueing the followup into an explicit date, though. And possibly not flirting more in your messages to her.

No one ****ed anything up here.

Roy, you were able to snatch a date. Two people looking for romantic companionship meeting up and evaluating attraction is, for all intents and purposes, a date - no matter the outcome or the label or the involved people's relationship with the word.
So go you! That's an awesome, positive step

This one was a dud - either she wasn't interested, or you weren't invested enough to convey romantic/sexual interest. It happens. It happens A LOT, especially in online dating. Which is why no one should ever join online dating for the ego boost (yes, that includes women - the "hi sexy i wanna *** on ur tits" cavalcade quickly loses its luster). Online dating is hard and frustrating and exhausting, and burnout happens. Consider whether you need a few months' break right now.

The thing you need to learn from this experience is that some people are extremely wishy-washy about expressing their emotions and their wants. Her not calling it a date seems to fit a pattern of not wanting to be too harsh, not wanting to lock things down (see also the BS "it may happen some day" which is just a more elaborate way of saying "never").
Those people are an annoyance to encounter in the dating scene because you need to ignore half the things they say. Good rule of thumb: whenever someone says no, the qualifiers and explanations don't matter. Please mentally delete everything but the rejection from your mind and move on.
And of course, absolutely always err on the side of "maybe" meaning "no".

It was kinda rude of her not to make her intentions clear after that initial attraction assesment (whether we call it a date or not), and she's hopefully gonna learn that eventually. But you also caused yourself grief by not making a move sooner. Not because that would've won her over, but because you would've known the right label of any future hang-outs.
Another rule of thumb: If first meeting is just a quick coffee (as is common in online dating), then make a move on the second meetup. If first meeting expands, then make your move at the end of that.

This girl and you are never gonna happen in a romantic sense, no matter how much she hems and haws about it. With that in mind, you can make up your mind about whether to stay her friend and possibly meet her cute, single friends.

But either way, you went on a date! That's a great step and a big success. It's one experience richer and one step closer to a relationship

[Coidzor]

No one ****ed anything up here.

If things go well enough for a follow up and a person still doesn't ask the other out on a proper date, then they've failed on at least one axis if their goal was dating and romance.

or you weren't invested enough to convey romantic/sexual interest.

If so, that's at odds with your statement that no one messed up. Also, generally asking someone out on a date conveys romantic and sexual interest, so if that was really her only objection then his asking her out should have resolved that in and of itself.

[RoyVG]

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but thank you again for your opinions and feedback, but I would rather put this issue to rest for now, it's not really helping me anymore. Right now we are friends with mutual interests and we still talk to each other daily. I asked if she wanted to 'simply hang out' despite asking her out on a date the day before, and she didn't mind do that. I'm not getting my hopes up on it ever becoming something, other than just friends, because that will likely not happen. I also asked because all of my friends are going to a LARP event this coming week and I didn't exactly plan on waiting for a week for them to get back in order to do something.

Frankly, I never asked if she saw it as a date, that is simply conjecture on my part, but her reaction after asking her on a date let me to believe she didn't saw it that way. It's very well possible that not explicitly calling it a date the second time may have resulted in this situation, or that flirting not enough may have put her off, I don't know. You can call it a date because it was a 'meeting organized through a dating site' or 'to explore romantic and/or sexual interests in person', it doesn't matter anymore.

Whoever was at fault, I don't care, but I would rather leave it as it is, because it isn't going to get any better anymore anyway. I expressed romantic intentions, she declined, case closed.

[lio45]

I expressed romantic intentions, she declined, case closed.

(...)

Right now we are friends with mutual interests and we still talk to each other daily.

So you're totally over her and have completely moved on, right?

Just asking because if not you might find it tough when she'll get dates and eventually a boyfriend from that online dating site she's on.

[Dire Moose]

1) you can actually turn that into an icebreaker. You can update your local area as you go along, even anticipate it when you know in advance and say something on the profile to the effect of being new in town. It might even attract those women who are fed up with meeting the same old people every day.
One of the contacts I made on okc was a woman who on her profile said something in the vein of "I'll be moving to x shortly and would love to meet someone who could show me around a bit and introduce me to the best places in town" you could do the same and be even more specific as in "can you point me to the best pizza place/comic book store/museum/Park/whatever else around?"
Someone who is intrigued by your profile might actually use the hook to have something to talk about. Likewise it's conversation fuel for you... What brings you here, how long have you lived here, where are you originally from, I'm looking to rent in that area is it a nice hood.. Etc etc. The conversation hooks are endless
2) yes, on average the odds are still in favour of women, but things are changing, slowly but steadily. It is not so rare anymore for women to browse profiles unsolicited and occasionally seek contact.. Much depends on the website of choice (if it's adult themed you can forget women ever contacting you first), and on the quality of your profile. Do consider that it's still most likely that you're going to have to take the first step more often than not

To be completely realistic, going all over the place from one job to another is something that's not very likely to happen. Due to high competition for said jobs, I'm almost certainly going to wind up back at my parents' house once I'm done here and be there for months trying and failing to get a job. And nobody wants someone like that.

[lio45]

To be completely realistic, going all over the place from one job to another is something that's not very likely to happen. Due to high competition for said jobs, I'm almost certainly going to wind up back at my parents' house once I'm done here and be there for months trying and failing to get a job. And nobody wants someone like that.

Aren't there any branches of Biology that interest you enough to potentially be a career and in which you could do a M. Sc. (you can normally start those at various points during the year, it's not like you have to wait for the next fall semester to start) while living decently on the stipend/scholarship that you'd earn while working on that degree?

[RoyVG]

So you're totally over her and have completely moved on, right?

Just asking because if not you might find it tough when she'll get dates and eventually a boyfriend from that online dating site she's on.

I'd be lying if I said I was completely. I mean, there will always be a part of me wishing it went differently but I guess that is normal. I'm not sure what this will do to me on the long term, but right now I can say I'm so far over it that i can handle it. If things take a turn for the worst, like how you mentioned, she going on dates and finally getting a boyfriend, I'll probably take my distance. She will be the only dependable source for conversations for some time as my friends are going places, losing her now as a friend would be worse than missing out on her as a girlfriend. I'll take my chances and face the consequences, if I can keep her as a friend, that will only be a plus, and if lose her later, at least I had her as a friend for that time.

[Tirunedeth]

Well, I've got something I'd like some advice on, which draws a little close to recent discussion. Hopefully, I don't make it get too heated again. I'm currently trying to set up an OKCupid profile, but I'm growing quite nervous because I'm afraid of mismatched expectations. Over the past few years, I've realized that I want things to progress slowly, perhaps even glacially slowly by "normal-person-standards" (at least insomuch as that is actually a thing). I hesitate to even call what I want to do dating in its early stages, although I guess since there is an element of evaluation of suitability for romantic relationships it does probably fit a reasonable definition thereof. On the other hand, at least in my mind, dating tends to imply that kissing is on the table, which it definitely won't be for at least the first few times I meet up with someone. Not to mention that it sounds like a certain amount of flirting is expected right from the beginning if there's romantic interest, which also definitely won't be happening. So, is there any good way of communicating this to someone, and if so at what point should I do so? It would probably help my prospects (and just generally make things more pleasant) if I'm not constantly worrying about my boundaries being violated, and it would also be nice to not be dismissed for not showing the "appropriate" signs of interest.

Also, I know I've seen advice on profiles before, but I haven't been able to track down much of it. Is there any chance someone could give me a general rundown of the advice?

Sorry if any of my writing seems unclear. I'm kind of uncomfortable, both with this general topic/situation and with talking about it on a public forum, so I'm mostly just trying to get something posted. But I'm tired of being unhappy with being single, and not doing much about it, so I'm not letting a little discomfort stop me this time.

[noparlpf]

Well, I've got something I'd like some advice on, which draws a little close to recent discussion. Hopefully, I don't make it get too heated again. I'm currently trying to set up an OKCupid profile, but I'm growing quite nervous because I'm afraid of mismatched expectations. Over the past few years, I've realized that I want things to progress slowly, perhaps even glacially slowly by "normal-person-standards" (at least insomuch as that is actually a thing). I hesitate to even call what I want to do dating in its early stages, although I guess since there is an element of evaluation of suitability for romantic relationships it does probably fit a reasonable definition thereof. On the other hand, at least in my mind, dating tends to imply that kissing is on the table, which it definitely won't be for at least the first few times I meet up with someone. Not to mention that it sounds like a certain amount of flirting is expected right from the beginning if there's romantic interest, which also definitely won't be happening. So, is there any good way of communicating this to someone, and if so at what point should I do so? It would probably help my prospects (and just generally make things more pleasant) if I'm not constantly worrying about my boundaries being violated, and it would also be nice to not be dismissed for not showing the "appropriate" signs of interest.

Also, I know I've seen advice on profiles before, but I haven't been able to track down much of it. Is there any chance someone could give me a general rundown of the advice?

Sorry if any of my writing seems unclear. I'm kind of uncomfortable, both with this general topic/situation and with talking about it on a public forum, so I'm mostly just trying to get something posted. But I'm tired of being unhappy with being single, and not doing much about it, so I'm not letting a little discomfort stop me this time.

This is a good question. If I were to try online dating I'd have the same type of problem, because I'm asexual. Normal-people dating these days seems to come with the expectation of physical intimacy after 3-5 dates. Super weird.

[dehro]

Well, I've got something I'd like some advice on, which draws a little close to recent discussion. Hopefully, I don't make it get too heated again. I'm currently trying to set up an OKCupid profile, but I'm growing quite nervous because I'm afraid of mismatched expectations. Over the past few years, I've realized that I want things to progress slowly, perhaps even glacially slowly by "normal-person-standards" (at least insomuch as that is actually a thing). I hesitate to even call what I want to do dating in its early stages, although I guess since there is an element of evaluation of suitability for romantic relationships it does probably fit a reasonable definition thereof. On the other hand, at least in my mind, dating tends to imply that kissing is on the table, which it definitely won't be for at least the first few times I meet up with someone. Not to mention that it sounds like a certain amount of flirting is expected right from the beginning if there's romantic interest, which also definitely won't be happening. So, is there any good way of communicating this to someone, and if so at what point should I do so? It would probably help my prospects (and just generally make things more pleasant) if I'm not constantly worrying about my boundaries being violated, and it would also be nice to not be dismissed for not showing the "appropriate" signs of interest.

Also, I know I've seen advice on profiles before, but I haven't been able to track down much of it. Is there any chance someone could give me a general rundown of the advice?

Sorry if any of my writing seems unclear. I'm kind of uncomfortable, both with this general topic/situation and with talking about it on a public forum, so I'm mostly just trying to get something posted. But I'm tired of being unhappy with being single, and not doing much about it, so I'm not letting a little discomfort stop me this time.

The easiest way to convey such a thing is to do it right in the profile itself. If you can keep it reasonably short, I'd also point out the reasons for such a slow approach, whether it's a matter of character, psychological inclination, cultural background, medical issue, religious conviction.. Any clear reasoning behind your "I take dating really slow and won't go for hanky-panky anytime soon but it doesn't mean I don't like you" message will probably resonate with potential partners who are of the same opinion and work at the same speed... Thereby providing you with a handy filter. Anybody who reads that and still gets in touch is probably equipped to deal with it or even happy about it. If they don't and still get in touch, you can always point them towards your profile so they can readjust their expectations or move on.
Clear communication is always your best tool.
As for your profile... You could post a link to it here (or ask for someone's pm if you're uncomfortable exposing yourself publicly).. There is no shortage of people who can give you an opinion on what works and what you could change.
Generic advice I could give is to be yourself (lame but true, there's no point giving yourself more credits than you can live up to), write a profile of roughly the same length you'd be willing to read (I am longwinded and attract mostly girls who appreciate an articulate individual but it's not everyone's cup of tea, again, yet another compatibility filter). Be funny/lighthearted and don't take yourself too seriously but still be as clear as you can about what you're looking for. Say a little something about what your values are and what you're passionate about, opening the door to people with similar interests. Spend a couple words, not too many, on your qualities and flaws, presenting the latter in the best possible light or as something you're seriously working on overcoming. People like individuals who work on bettering themselves. It would be a good thing if a friend reading your profile would recognise you by it without looking at the photos and nickname.
Unless your life revolves entirely around a single passion, don't pick your nickname to reflect that one thing, because people who aren't into that one thing might discard you for not having anything else to offer even before reading your profile. Karate-man, otakuboy, technoraver, computerlord or countrysinger are all great nicknames if you are all about those things.. It will attract people who are also into them.. But if aside those things you're also into opera, d&d, fitness, acting, med school or whatever else, they'll have to read the profile to find out.. And some might not bother. A more generic (or even obscure) nickname is your best option in that case.
There are undoubtedly other considerations to make, and some of the above might be obvious, not relevant to you or unnecessary... So give it a try and see for yourself what works. It might be you'll need to adjust or update your profile over time.

[Coidzor]

I'd be lying if I said I was completely. I mean, there will always be a part of me wishing it went differently but I guess that is normal. I'm not sure what this will do to me on the long term, but right now I can say I'm so far over it that i can handle it. If things take a turn for the worst, like how you mentioned, she going on dates and finally getting a boyfriend, I'll probably take my distance. She will be the only dependable source for conversations for some time as my friends are going places, losing her now as a friend would be worse than missing out on her as a girlfriend. I'll take my chances and face the consequences, if I can keep her as a friend, that will only be a plus, and if lose her later, at least I had her as a friend for that time.

Prioritize making more friends before you mount any further explicitly romantic expeditions, then. You should never be in a position where you feel obligated to hang around someone who has rejected you or be friendless.

This will also have the beneficial effect of making you more attractive to potential mates due to having friends and hopefully being happier as a person.

[Tirunedeth]

This is a good question. If I were to try online dating I'd have the same type of problem, because I'm asexual. Normal-people dating these days seems to come with the expectation of physical intimacy after 3-5 dates. Super weird.

Yeah. I'm in a bit of a different situation, since I'm not asexual, but it seems very weird to me, too. Although I guess I can understand physical intimacy after five or so dates, but that would be about the lower limit of when I think I might be comfortable with it.

The easiest way to convey such a thing is to do it right in the profile itself. If you can keep it reasonably short, I'd also point out the reasons for such a slow approach, whether it's a matter of character, psychological inclination, cultural background, medical issue, religious conviction.. Any clear reasoning behind your "I take dating really slow and won't go for hanky-panky anytime soon but it doesn't mean I don't like you" message will probably resonate with potential partners who are of the same opinion and work at the same speed... Thereby providing you with a handy filter. Anybody who reads that and still gets in touch is probably equipped to deal with it or even happy about it. If they don't and still get in touch, you can always point them towards your profile so they can readjust their expectations or move on.
Clear communication is always your best tool.

That makes sense. I'll have to work out the best wording a bit, but I think I can manage that. I'm pretty sure my reasons for wanting things to go slow are just because that's who I am, but to be honest it may just be because I've never done any romantic-y stuff. Whatever the reason for my discomfort, though, I think it's best if I take things slow to start, and reevaluate later if I find that I'm more comfortable with it later.

I'm a bit busy right now, what with moving to a new apartment (just down the road from my old one), so I probably won't be able to work on my profile much in the next few days, but when I do have something I'll see about getting specific comments. I'll probably go the PM route, since I am kind of paranoid about posting a link to my profile.

I do want to thank both of you for your comments. Just getting some friendly responses has helped my stress level with this whole thing immensely.

[lio45]

Yeah. I'm in a bit of a different situation, since I'm not asexual, but it seems very weird to me, too. Although I guess I can understand physical intimacy after five or so dates, but that would be about the lower limit of when I think I might be comfortable with it.



That makes sense. I'll have to work out the best wording a bit, but I think I can manage that. I'm pretty sure my reasons for wanting things to go slow are just because that's who I am, but to be honest it may just be because I've never done any romantic-y stuff. Whatever the reason for my discomfort, though, I think it's best if I take things slow to start, and reevaluate later if I find that I'm more comfortable with it later.

I'm a bit busy right now, what with moving to a new apartment (just down the road from my old one), so I probably won't be able to work on my profile much in the next few days, but when I do have something I'll see about getting specific comments. I'll probably go the PM route, since I am kind of paranoid about posting a link to my profile.

I do want to thank both of you for your comments. Just getting some friendly responses has helped my stress level with this whole thing immensely.

Do you have to create your profile before you can start looking at girl profiles? Because I remember very well that after looking at other profiles, I got little ideas here and there that helped me refine mine.

I second pretty much everything dehro said. I'd add, if you know of any firm deal-breakers for you, might as well list them, in order to save everyone time. Normally, you shouldn't have a grocery list of those, though, so maybe one or two, tops.

I am also willing to give profile feedback :)

But out of curiosity, what kind of new dealbreaking stuff do you expect to learn about the other that takes at least five dates to be noticed? Seems to me that the point where you've both got a mental green light to go ahead and confirm that if it works well physically too for both of you should be earlier than that.

When I was looking, I was really not in a hurry to find the right person (and said so clearly in my profile), but after you've found a candidate that has the potential to be it and vice versa, seems weird to go on an endless string of dates after you both clearly enjoyed your first couple dates. Feels weird to me to push the moment to move to the next level away and away and away -- what exactly is the point?

Just curious... I mean, you have the right to prefer to do it your way, no problem :)



Edited to comment on this little bit:

I'm pretty sure my reasons for wanting things to go slow are just because that's who I am, but to be honest it may just be because I've never done any romantic-y stuff.

You know, I'd bet anything that it's the reason.

FWIW, the girl who ended up being my first gf (a long time ago) courted me forever, and intensely; I later learned she was being driven crazy by my apparent reticence to take it further, and couldn't think of any logical explanation for it at the time. I, well... was afraid of I don't really know what... I didn't want to spoil things, I suppose. With experience now I can see that my reason for acting like that was simply the lack of experience, and that's it. When you are about to do something unfamiliar that you're not fully comfortable with, it's really easy to end up procrastinating forever.

Now it seems to me that acting like that would be a huge waste of time for both parties. Which, in retrospect, it totally was. We could've gotten together months earlier and I'd have spared her a lot of anxiety, and nothing else would've been different during our 2-year relationship.

[Dire Moose]

Aren't there any branches of Biology that interest you enough to potentially be a career and in which you could do a M. Sc. (you can normally start those at various points during the year, it's not like you have to wait for the next fall semester to start) while living decently on the stipend/scholarship that you'd earn while working on that degree?

I don't know of any schools that don't run master's programs outside of a semester basis, and I would have to negotiate regarding GPA requirements. And while I may be interested in something like wildlife/field biology, a master's in biology isn't as relevant to paleontology as I'd like. A geology one would be better suited to my long-term goals.

However, if there are any schools that don't work on a semester basis for their master's program and have a paleontology-related degree program (some biology programs might still involve it), please let me know.