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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default What do you fight for in D&D?

    Dungeons & Dragons is a game that is primarily about combat, right? At least the rules are. So it makes sense to have a campaign where fighting is in large role. But what kind of stories can you tie around that fighting? Why do the characters fight, what do they hope to gain by fighting?

    Money. This their living, they venture into dark places and slay monstrosities or evil cults and liberate any valuables they have in their lairs or hideouts.

    Exploration. The characters are wandering a new world, satisfying their curiosity while coming across any number of monsters or hostile cultures.

    War. The characters are part of a larger conflict, whether its over freedom or ideology or religion or race.

    Good. The characters are heroes and circumstances force them to fight because there are evils out there that threaten everything they value and can not be reasoned with.

    Evil. The characters are villains who use their fantastic powers to get what they want and feel more powerful than the common man, bringing them into conflict with authorities.

    Are there other descriptors for D&D campaigns that you can think of? What's your favourite kind of campaign? We've been playing a long campaign where the characters are motivated primarily by money, which has been a lot of fun and worked really well with a wide open sandbox where the players get to choose the risks they are willing to take. I'm looking into other motivators at the moment and seeing what kinds of new campaigns I could run.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    I'm currently fighting to prove myself worthy of my glorious (murdertank) ancestors, but in past I've fought mostly for protecting people, money, and getting that stupid prophesy off my back.
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    I came up with a master ninja with a robotic arm that is simultaneously both a vampire and a werewolf. He is the first of his clan in a thousand years to master the Warp Blade technique, which allows him to bend space-time to his will. So in addition to being a cyborg werewolf vampire ninja, he's also a time traveler and functionally immortal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milodiah View Post
    ...kinda sounds like Samuel Haight got sent to the world of Rifts.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Glory - Money comes and goes, but the stories of your deeds will last forever. We've all heard of Achilles, but who's heard of the richest guy in Greece circa 1250 BC?
    Boredom - Sometimes life on the farm can be a tad bit dull.
    Love - The prince is in another castle.
    Searching - My father once told me of a cauldron that never empties kept by the Fomorians beyond the great Northern Sea.
    Power - By all rights, I should be Empress, but the incompetence of my forefathers robbed me of those rights. Now, I seek an army to take what is rightfully mine.
    Prophecy - I am the Chosen One.
    Bad luck - Well, my village was razed by orcs and when I went to get help, the earl was assassinated, and then the duke charged me with treason and now I'm just hoping that the owlbears don't come back.
    Knowledge - I need to learn the magical spell that can restore my mentor's sanity.
    Exile - I murdered a guy and now I can't go back home.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thinker View Post
    Glory - Money comes and goes, but the stories of your deeds will last forever. We've all heard of Achilles, but who's heard of the richest guy in Greece circa 1250 BC?
    Quote Originally Posted by Horace
    Many brave men lived before Agamemnon; but all are overwhelmed in eternal night, unwept, unknown, because they lack a sacred poet 20th level bard party member.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaegar14 View Post
    I came up with a master ninja with a robotic arm that is simultaneously both a vampire and a werewolf. He is the first of his clan in a thousand years to master the Warp Blade technique, which allows him to bend space-time to his will. So in addition to being a cyborg werewolf vampire ninja, he's also a time traveler and functionally immortal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milodiah View Post
    ...kinda sounds like Samuel Haight got sent to the world of Rifts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    And we have a new winner!

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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Yeah, I get bored with games, in any setting, where the characters are basically just superheroes sitting around their Hall of Justice waiting for something to happen so they can go fight it. A money/treausre-focused campaign rarely lasts, although some characters can maintain it for quite a while. Here are some things we've done:

    Survival - This might be a sub-category of war. The PC races/cultures are beset by threatening outside forces. I had a campaign that was set in a world that had suffered a magical apocalypse with the mutant spawn of that cataclysm wandering the land. The characters were the ones trying to beat back the chaos.

    Conquest - many of the games I've run have turned into a variation of this. The PC's start by adventuring in a small wilderness area and end up carving out their own niche there. They wipe out the local bandits, monsters, tribes, dungeon critters, etc. Then they establish a base of operations which attracts support personnel, PC family members, and later settlers. The campaign shifts into them fortifying and keeping what they've built against the forces that would prey on them and destroy the blossoming civilization. Usually they end up involved in larger political battles with neighboring lords.

    Quest - from a simple "the village is in trouble, go find out why" to a decree by the gods to do something important (retrieve an artifact, halt the end of the world, etc.) The goal becomes the motivation for all (or most) of the subsequent adventures.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    This should be answered as part of the character conception.

    Gustav is currently fighting because his Prince told him to, and to protect the city-dwellers he's traveling with from the forest (and to protect the forest from them).

    Pteppic is fighting to prove that, of 100 princes, he is the one most worthy to succeed his father as Pharaoh.

    Ornrandir fought because he was an outcast, and the adventuring party were the only people who had ever accepted him.

    Professor Power, Hyperion, and Paragon fought because "With great power comes great responsibility".

    Dr. MacAbre fought to explore the mystical world as a cultural anthropologist.

    Shadowmonk fought to keep other kids from being caught up in gangs like he once was.

    Gwydion fought because he was one of seven people who were present when seven great heroes died with an unfinished quest.

    Doli and Felix fought because their five brothers were slain by a dragon.

    Jean-Louis fought because it paid much better than picking pockets.

    Leprechaun fought because if you are only three feet tall and have an Irish accent, you'll probably have to.

    Ragnar Rabbit fought only when it was funny.

    The Baron fought to serve Queen Elizabeth.

    Minimax Jones fought so he could stay in space.

    Cornelius fought to redeem his family.

    Endora fought because she was in love with the paladin.

    Robin Banks explored dungeons because that's where the money was.

    [Not all of these are D&D. It includes characters from original D&D, AD&D 1E & 2E, D&D 3.5E, Champions, GURPS, Star Hero, TOON, Chivalry and Sorcery, and Flashing Blades.

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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    When the adventure is done
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Quote Originally Posted by Comet View Post
    Dungeons & Dragons is a game that is primarily about combat, right? At least the rules are.
    Lordy, this again. Does anyone ever think about why this is? Why combat has lots of rules governing it, and how that doesn't require or even imply that the game then be "about" combat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Comet View Post
    So it makes sense to have a campaign where fighting is in large role. But what kind of stories can you tie around that fighting? Why do the characters fight, what do they hope to gain by fighting?
    My character fights because I want him to fight, because I think action is cool. Other kinds of action are cool too, like chases and heists and obstacles and deathtraps. I like a good story, but if the story isn't that great, at least I can enjoy the action.

    I like Star Wars. I like the story, I like the music, I like the quotable lines and the special effects. But I also like that the story finds reasonably plausible ways to get the characters into tense situations that require action. We could tell the exact same story without all that action, and it might even be watchable, but I'd rather have it with the action. We could tell a worse story (and really it's not like the plot of Star Wars is some amazing and original story to begin with) and I might still enjoy it for those action scenes.

    The reasons for the action in Star Wars really don't matter. Han does what he does for his survival (indirectly, to earn money, and directly to avoid gunfire), then for his pride and for friendship. Luke does what he does out of duty, or love, or friendship. Chewie does what he does out of friendship. Obi-wan feels it's his destiny. Leia is driven by her cause. The Empire wants to destroy the rebels. To me, those are all ad hoc excuses to drive action. They don't hold up well to close scrutiny, but I don't scrutinize them because I'm happy to get the action they drive.

    It's like the physical challenges they have to overcome. The trash compactor and the bottomless shafts are preposterous. Flying along a trench to make a shot is ridiculous. In The Empire Strikes Back, the cool asteroid chase happens in an asteroid field that is far, far more dense than it should be. But those situations are cool so I'm happy to have any flimsy justification for them that I can get.

    It can go too far. The prequels are examples of this, with poor music and no good lines, though even they managed to have some cool action. And of course if the action is boring it diminishes the story. And some stories don't need much action, but then they need really good writing or some other kind of conflict, neither of which are all that easy for a ruleset to bring about.

    So, when it comes to character motivation in D&D or any other game, I'll take whatever I can get, even making stuff up if I have to. In the last major game I ran, the main driver was one character's desire to improve his standing in the fey court. I put up obstacles to that which involved action and fighting, because that's what I enjoy, and what easily allowed me to involve the whole group. In a game I'm playing now, I had to invent an NPC that my character is keen to rescue. In another, my character is a defeated villain laboring under a Mark of Justice. He seeks to remove the Mark, but in the meantime is driven to selfless acts to avoid pain. I don't even know what the main plot is in those games and probably wouldn't care about it if I did.

    And while I'm sure some people would like to dismiss me as being all about numbers and rolling dice, they're wrong. I don't care if dice or rules ever come into it, as long as the scene is cool. I don't strive for the diceless game, but I have run sessions that were strictly narrated, mainly because the conclusion was foregone and I just wanted to see how the players reacted to it, but they were still action-packed sessions.

    I don't like trying to motivate players. There's always at least one player who bristles at the motivation, either in-character or out. I'd rather players came up with their own motivation, their own reason for the characters to get into action scenes. But they are going to get into action scenes in my games. Not constantly, but there's always one looming, one that cannot and isn't intended to be defused or avoided (they can escape it, but the escape will involve action).

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Legend - My name shall live on after the world burns and the stars go out, for it is etched into the fabric of the cosmos itself.
    Joy - I am very, very good at battle, so I shall subsume myself in it.
    Survival - I'm being attacked! Good thing I'm paranoid and packed a sword on my vacation trip to the mysterious mountain inn.
    Change - I wish for something about the world to be different, but it's not like it'll do it on its own.

    Its not the campaign, so much as what the character can make of the campaign. A good character benefits from harmony with the campaign, but they keep going even when the campaign's motivation is flat.
    Last edited by NichG; 2015-03-26 at 11:20 AM.

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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Great stuff so far! Definitely seeing a lot of characters defining their own reasons for a fighting life instead of just adopting a group goal, which I think makes a lot of sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beta Centauri View Post
    Lordy, this again. Does anyone ever think about why this is? Why combat has lots of rules governing it, and how that doesn't require or even imply that the game then be "about" combat?
    If the player wants to gain experience and explore his character in D&D, he is going to have think about fighting things eventually. That's what's in the book and, mechanically, what playing the game means to a large degree. Other games offer mechanics to explore different things, D&D spends pages and pages on fleshing out exciting combat in a world of magic and monsters.

    I definitely don't want anyone to think that this is a bad thing, though! Dramatic fantasy combat is fun and D&D is pretty great at it. I want to embrace that potential of brave men and women using strength and magic to overcome monsters and other adversaries. And I want to explore what kinds of stories you could build around that dynamic. This thread is definitely helping!
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Quote Originally Posted by Comet View Post
    If the player wants to gain experience and explore his character in D&D, he is going to have think about fighting things eventually. That's what's in the book and, mechanically, what playing the game means to a large degree. Other games offer mechanics to explore different things, D&D spends pages and pages on fleshing out exciting combat in a world of magic and monsters.
    The original West End Games Star Wars book has about three pages about character combat, but Star Wars is definitely going to involve combat. Just because a game has a lot of information about combat doesn't mean it's more about combat. In the case of D&D, that came about for a lot of reasons, but some of those are that people argue about combat, want to do specific things in combat, and combat needs to be (or attempt to be) fair. That all takes rules. If combat is just about shooting blasters down hallways, or everyone trusts each other to play fair and allow cool things to happen, those rules aren't needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comet View Post
    I definitely don't want anyone to think that this is a bad thing, though! Dramatic fantasy combat is fun and D&D is pretty great at it. I want to embrace that potential of brave men and women using strength and magic to overcome monsters and other adversaries. And I want to explore what kinds of stories you could build around that dynamic. This thread is definitely helping!
    Okay, good. Usually threads that talk about D&D's combat focus assume that the story must suffer.

    Bottom line: look to movies and TV. Books have a lot of combat, but not always in much detail. Movies and TV show the cool, detailed combat and the plot reasons why the characters bother. It boils down to simple things, usually, but good writers can spice those up.

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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    It has always been about what was good for my character at the time. I've had a tiefling that fight because in combat the urges of their demonic ancestor were focused and at piece, the last elf I played liked to explore and it was basically law of jungle there kill to keep from being killed, to a human paladin (only paladin I've ever played) that fought battles to protect others to make up for kinslaying in his youth (not that he knew they were related before that).

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    In our last D&D game, the PCs were the defender of the community in which they lived. It was pretty obvious why they fought - to protect the people they knew and loved.
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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Duty- I was born to serve, it is the honour of my life to serve my king/god/country until my dying day

    Revenge- The orcs/evil cult/ foreign country slaughtered everyone I loved. Every night I hear the screams of those I loved in my dreams, I will always hear them until I drown them out with the screams of those who killed them

    Vanity- Anybody can kill but only I look so great doing it. When I ride forth maidens swoon and strong men tremble
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    FOR PONY!!

    Any cause can conceivably benefit from people fighting on its behalf.
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    What do I fight for?

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    Pretty much says it all.
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    I fight so others can make their own decisions and live with their own consequences. It may take a million generations, but some day mortals will be free from their immortal masters.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Each PC of mine has his own reasons depending on their alignment, class and back story

    Most recent PC it was for
    Power
    Knowledge
    Money

    in that order

    I managed to ultimately retire him (when the campaign ended) as
    Head of the two opposing empires Wizard Guilds
    - this game him the Power, the Knowledge and the money he wanted

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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Women (or men)-- It always boils down to this in the end. All of the other reasons are just a means to the ultimate goal of procreation. Cynical sociobiology in gaming.
    Last edited by Maglubiyet; 2015-03-27 at 08:31 AM.

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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Let's see, reasons my characters fought...

    Venegeance, because he was the last
    Survival, because he was being hunted
    Freedom, because he was enslaved
    Gold, because he was in debt
    Glory, because he needed to prove himself
    Tradition, because he was carrying on the family trade
    Knowledge, because he needed to know. Also curiosity
    The opposite sex, because sex
    Obedience, because I was told to by some prophecy
    Faith, because I was told to by some power
    Patriotism, because my liege needs me
    World domination, because if your going to plan, plan big
    Self improvement, to *know* myself
    Approval, for self esteem
    Because I wanna be the best, like no one ever was
    Hatred, because people piss him off
    Sanity, because the voices in his head won't go away
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Self discovery (2 times. One grew comfortable never knowing his parents. The other found out he was a god in rebirth...)
    To choose a champion
    Because he likes it and it's on the way
    To attain freedom from her fiendish master
    To make amends with an old friend
    To rescue his new family

    I haven't played enough.

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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

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    Bringer of music, gladdening tidings, joyfull refrains and turnips
    Janjansen fights to spread the magic of music, for his friends, to spread the glorious sound of the bowed banjo, for justice, and his pet badger.

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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Exploration: See new places and face thrilling dangers.

    Survival: We live in the frontier, we just want to live our lives in peace. The Hoard has other plans.

    Fortune & Glory: What? you need more?

    Love: I don't want to fight. I'm just here to make sure he gets back alive.

    Death: I have nothing left to live for. Honor prevents me from taking my life. So I will find a worthwhile way to die.

    Duty: Because if we don't step up, no one else will until it's to late.
    “You know what your problem is, it's that you haven't seen enough movies - all of life's riddles are answered in the movies.” Davis. -Steve Martin- Grand Canyon

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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Revan avatar by kaptainkrutch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Some of my characters that had clear reasons:

    Finding a Lost Loved One: Zeranna fought so she could find her lost uncle who had raised her. (There was also that thing about an evil death god who wanted to return to wreck havoc on the realm, but you know, priorities.)

    Knowledge (and the Greater Good I guess): Rhenner fights because his Church is involved in a big cover up and he wants to know what and, especially, why. Also, someone is plotting to plunge the world to war, and he's generally against that sort of thing,

    Money & Adventure: Kaarna fights because she gets paid. And because it's fun, and she gets to torch people and no one complains.

    To Protect: Stiira fights to save her tribe (and the realm) from impending doom.

    Law: Irethírra fought simply because 'it was the right thing to do'. After slipping once in her youth, rules had become very important to her.

    Duty: Rhen, the broken paladin, didn't know how to stop, even after his ideals had been brought down and spit on, he just had to go on.

    Freedom: After escaping the constraining life in the Underdark, Drâyna was free to explore the world and its wonders.
    Alamryn Kven, a druid who tries very hard not to be useless.
    Celesta Halla, a fearless barbarian.
    Jheren Falconer, a drifter ranger.
    Rhenner Calami, a snarky medic with an untrustworthy memory.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Because we keep getting attacked by complete strangers. It all started with the kobolds. We were walking along peacefully, exploring a kobold village, minding our own business looking for treasure, and all these kobolds attacked us.

    Then we went down into this cave system looking for treasure, and about the time we found it, a bunch of goblins attacked us.

    Then it was orcs, bugbears, ogres, etc.

    Most recently, we explored a huge cavern looking for treasure. We found a huge mound of it, and while we were peacefully loading it up, this red dragon swooped down and attacked us.

    Really - it's never our fault. We just keep getting attacked.

    Why is nobody ever happy to see us?

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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    Because we keep getting attacked by complete strangers. It all started with the kobolds. We were walking along peacefully, exploring a kobold village, minding our own business looking for treasure, and all these kobolds attacked us.

    Then we went down into this cave system looking for treasure, and about the time we found it, a bunch of goblins attacked us.

    Then it was orcs, bugbears, ogres, etc.

    Most recently, we explored a huge cavern looking for treasure. We found a huge mound of it, and while we were peacefully loading it up, this red dragon swooped down and attacked us.

    Really - it's never our fault. We just keep getting attacked.

    Why is nobody ever happy to see us?
    Do you guys have a high CHA? A lot of times those who lash out for no reason are really just insecure and jealous of your good looks and charm. It's a curse you're going to have to live with, I'm afraid. Try winning them over with flowers or a bottle of wine.

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    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    Because we keep getting attacked by complete strangers. It all started with the kobolds. We were walking along peacefully, exploring a kobold village, minding our own business looking for treasure, and all these kobolds attacked us.

    Then we went down into this cave system looking for treasure, and about the time we found it, a bunch of goblins attacked us.

    Then it was orcs, bugbears, ogres, etc.

    Most recently, we explored a huge cavern looking for treasure. We found a huge mound of it, and while we were peacefully loading it up, this red dragon swooped down and attacked us.

    Really - it's never our fault. We just keep getting attacked.

    Why is nobody ever happy to see us?
    +1. I lol'd. It's also true.

    "When necessary to not get killed myself or to avoid getting somebody else killed," is generally my reason for being in a fight. When I can't go around, or talk them down, or set two or more enemy factions against each other, or can't otherwise shenanigan my way out through proper application of magic and assorted chicanery. I have no desire to go out and find combat. The fight is an obstacle on the way to a goal. Sometimes it's avoidable, sometimes it's not. Sometimes not fighting would leave a threat to others and the general public too big to ignore, or would get me splattered into chunky salsa. Sometimes there's loot (or even lute, since I tend to play bards) behind the monster. Sometimes the monster is the problem (BBEG out to destroy the land, etc.). But if I can get around it without a worse consequence than fighting would be, I'd rather do that.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Lake Jackson, TX

    Default Re: What do you fight for in D&D?

    Why I fight? hmmm....

    To Crush my Enemies!

    To see them driven before me!

    And to hear the lamentations of the women!
    The beatings will continue until morale improves!

    Vaz approval for the best backstory. Villainous Competition 16: Burn Baby Burn
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=114

    Honorable Mention Villainous Competition 22: I Am The Night
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...e-Night!/page6 Xihu Ayame

    Click my Vulpix to feed it yummy berries!

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