Anti magic magic help

[AngelOfFaith]

OK, so I'm a paranoid sorc/incant 15 and I would really like to utilize some spells that protect me from... spells.
My repertoire may or may not be limited - there are knowstones, scrolls, third party feats, persisting and all that - that's not a problem, I'm just wondering what the best ones are. Here are my finds so far, would love for you guys to give opinions.

Spoiler: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability PHB236

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Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: 10 ft.
Area: 10-ft.-radius spherical emanation, centered on you
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No


An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe. Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items. However, any type of spell can be cast through or out of the magical globe. Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast. The globe can be brought down by a targeted dispel magic spell, but not by an area dispel magic. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty.

Note that spell effects are not disrupted unless their effects enter the globe, and even then they are merely suppressed, not dispelled.

If a given spell has more than one level depending on which character class is casting it, use the level appropriate to the caster to determine whether lesser globe of invulnerability stops it.

Material Component: A glass or crystal bead that shatters at the expiration of the spell.

It's nice that it doesn't affect spells already cast but it's gonna protect me from a Fireball at most and I'm lvl 15.

Spoiler: Globe of Invulnerability PHB236

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Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: 10 ft.
Area: 10-ft.-radius spherical emanation, centered on you
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No


An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 4th level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe. Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items. However, any type of spell can be cast through or out of the magical globe. Spells of 5th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast. The globe can be brought down by a targeted dispel magic spell, but not by an area dispel magic. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty.

Note that spell effects are not disrupted unless their effects enter the globe, and even then they are merely suppressed, not dispelled.

If a given spell has more than one level depending on which character class is casting it, use the level appropriate to the caster to determine whether lesser globe of invulnerability stops it.

Material Component: A glass or crystal bead that shatters at the expiration of the spell.

Two levels higher for one more level of protection is not worth it.

Spoiler: Spell Resistance PHB282

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Abjuration
Level: Cleric 5, Runescarred Berserker 5, Knight of the Weave 5, Nar Demonbinder 5, Shugenja 5 (Earth), Apostle of Peace 5, Magic 5, Protection 5, Baator (SpC) 5, Meditation (DCS) 5, Meditation (ECS) 5,
Components: V, S, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The creature gains spell resistance equal to 12 + your caster level.

I don't know if spell resistance 27 is good enough. It's nice that it works on everything but it also works on everything - healing and buffing will be dicey and it's also not persistable by RAW(or at least my DM). And extend doesn't help much neither.

Spoiler: Spell Turning PHB282

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Abjuration
Level: Luck 7, Magic 7, Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Until expended or 10 min./level


Spells and spell-like effects targeted on you are turned back upon the original caster. The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells.

From seven to ten (1d4+6) spell levels are affected by the turning. The exact number is rolled secretly.

When you are targeted by a spell of higher level than the amount of spell turning you have left, that spell is partially turned. The subtract the amount of spell turning left from the spell level of the incoming spell, then divide the result by the spell level of the incoming spell to see what fraction of the effect gets through. For damaging spells, you and the caster each take a fraction of the damage. For nondamaging spells, each of you has a proportional chance to be affected.

If you and a spellcasting attacker are both warded by spell turning effects in operation, a resonating field is created.

This seems effective but it also has the problem with beneficial spells. It can be persisted and if empowered it's... powerful but wasn't there an item that gives spell turning?

Mystic Shield AEoS141 (Anauroch: The Empire of Shade, p. 141)
{Scrubbed}
This is Globe's jacked up brother but from what I'm reading all my spells that were on me and my magic items go to Scheiße. Am I reading that wrong? Also can't persist.

Otiluke's Supression Field CM112 (Complete Mage, p. 112)
{Scrubbed}
Persistable is good but it only helps against a single school... I can work with that - I can just say Necromancy since it's banned for me but the radius is so big I could hamper my allies...

Elemental Body SPc78 (Spell Compendium, p. 78)
{Scrubbed}
It can just be extended for a great duration but its just for the fire immunity...

Veil of Undeath SpC229 (Spell Compendium, p. 229)
{Scrubbed}
It's great but I've banned necromancy... and it stops healing again.

Ray Deflection SpC166 (Spell Compendium, p. 166)
{Scrubbed}
Absolute protection and persistable are nice things but it's sooo specific. I've never been targeted by a ray so far.

Energy Immunity SpC80 (Spell Compendium, p. 80)
{Scrubbed}
This is absolute and it's 24 hours but I either need to be psychic or cast it 5 times...

Also I'm going to take Mind Blank for sure, it trumps Protection from X.
I'm sure I'm forgetting something but the most important thing for me are your opinions.

[NeoPhoenix0]

If you want a quick escape from an antimagic field you might look at a tin foul hat.

Permanency shrink a box with no bottom and wear it as a hat. You can then cast spells including teleport.

[kardar233]

You should look into Friendly Fire (Exemplars of Evil, I believe?); it's basically Ray Deflection but it works on normal projectiles too, and if there's someone you don't like within 30ft you can hit them with the redirected attacks.

I'd say look into Dweomer of Transference for a really good defence but no same DM would let that work as-written.

Selective Spell Antimagic Field is really good.

[Hiro Quester]

This is a good collection of ideas. But I'm not really following the purpose of your posting. Is this a list of options you are considering? Or ones you do have, send you are asking what else you need? Please clarify.

I found it a good idea to make a list of likely threats, magical or not, and then try to block as many of those as I could.

E.g these spells are good. But some of the you have banned. And other vulnerabilities (critical hit; greater dispel magic) might be best blocked by a ring of counterspells, or armor crystal or weapon (e.g. Spellblade). Or by a buff spell.

For my previous character, a bard/sublime chord, I posted a list of buffs and protections I had up, asking the playground to critique and find holes in my protections. Here's that conversation, in case it helps. (In response to that discussion I learned veil of undeath for the set of immunities you listed --but if you have banned necromancy I don't understand why you list it here).

Perhaps it would be good to do something like that, rather than a list of spells you think might be useful?

[kaffalidjmah]

archmage. modellate spell. antimagic field. you create a "anti magic barrier"

initiate of the seven veil, complete arcane. the veil are the most powerful defensive buff out there. 4/d become immune to spell and item (it disintegrate any object and negate any spell) for....let me check...1 minute x level. oh, and you can cast it as immediate action, if you are not caught flat-flooted. contingency for celerity or otiluke suppressing field for flat-flooted attack (spell)

[AngelOfFaith]

The tin foil hat is top on my shopping list. I'm just wondering what material I'm to use it to be sure it works. I guess leather?

Friendly Fire sounds game changing - flying + friendly fire... but it depends heavily on what my DM deems "another target within 30". If he says it has to be a creature I might have to redirect to myself or something....

How do I use Dweomer of Transference? Do I have to dip into a psionic class?

Selective Spell Antimagic Field sounds awesome - it actually probably works unlike Sculpt Spell Antimagic Field. I'll have to consider it real hard - I'd have to change my build to get that feat.

The purpose of my post was for us to discuss the best ways for an arcane spellcaster to protect themselves from spells and I gave my suggestions from my perspective. As far as threats go I was thinking a bit more general in terms of protection - like SR is to Protection from Evil - protection from most stuff instead of being immune to one thing.

Class features can help with survivability for sure but I'm looking at it from a bit of a selfish perspective - I'm already lvl 15 and I can't use most of them. Otherwise yes, if one wants to survive one has to be an IoSFV.
The Contingency Otiluke is full of DM intervention opportunities - can Contingency tell if I'm flat footed? Does it observe my surroundings or does it only have the info I have? When it casts Otiluke's Field do I choose the school of magic when it procs or when I cast the Contingency? If I use it with Celerity what do I cast if I'm flat footed because I don't know what's attacking me - I get Celerity in the middle of the forest and have no idea what to do with it other than bail. Still need to think on it though.

[Hiro Quester]

Try buying a scroll of instant refuge. It's permanent once cast. It's a life-saver against any of six different conditions you specify.

Make your safe place your party cleric's temple, or somewhere else with friendly healers. And have a standing arrangement with them that if you (or your disintegrated remains) arrive there they will heal you immediately. And have a reliable way of teleporting back to your party after.

Use celerity to cast that cleric spell (umd a scroll) that instantly heals you and makes you stable if you drop below zero hit points.

[Anthrowhale]

Selective AMF + Permeable Form shuts down virtually all attacks. Is the attack magical? AMF deals with it. Is it nonmagical? Incorporeal deals with it.

There are about a half-dozen ways to penetrate this defense, but none of them are common.

[Chronos]

Selective antimagic field doesn't work that way. If you've got an antimagic field up that's selective to exclude yourself, and someone tosses a Fireball at you, then folks adjacent to you will be protected, because they're in antimagic, but you'll still be burned, because the AMF isn't affecting you, and thus isn't protecting you.

[Anthrowhale]

If you've got an antimagic field up that's selective to exclude yourself, and someone tosses a Fireball at you, then folks adjacent to you will be protected, because they're in antimagic, but you'll still be burned, because the AMF isn't affecting you, and thus isn't protecting you.

That's not RAW as far as I can tell.

The text is: "You can modify an area spell so that it does not affect one designated creature within it's area." Objects possessed by the designated creature are also not affected since AMF hampers which implies AMF is an attack which implies possessed objects are not affected by default. See the RAW thread here for relevant discussion.

But all other objects/spells/creatures within the area are affected as per normal rules since the feat says nothing about them, and nothing about the mechanism by which
the creature is unaffected. Apparently it just gives the creature straight-up immunity to AMF rather than carving a creature-sized hole.

So with selective AMF, you can exercise your supernatural abilities (i.e Breath Weapon), stab someone with your magic sword, or cast a spell. The magic sword works as normal. All spells and supernatural abilities (including your own) are suppressed within the area of the AMF as normal, but that doesn't preclude effects beyond the AMF area.

(As a side note, the permeable form will be affected, so tricks are needed to achieve this.)

[Chronos]

So what is it that's preventing a fireball from burning you, if you're not affected by an antimagic field?

[Anthrowhale]

So what is it that's preventing a fireball from burning you, if you're not affected by an antimagic field?

AMF, of course. Again, Selective[you] AMF has no exception for fireballs.

The idea that AMF affects some things but not others has support elsewhere in the rules---It doesn't affect some epic spells or Initiate of Mystra spells, for example.

[Chronos]

But how is an antimagic field that isn't affecting you protecting you? Protecting you is one of the ways in which it affects you.

[Grooke]

Because you are likely in the middle of the AMF, so the Fireball fizzles out before reaching you (does not work against instantaneous conjurations like Orb of X though)

[Anthrowhale]

But how is an antimagic field that isn't affecting you protecting you?

It isn't protecting you, it is shutting down the fireball. Every individual spell/object/creature interacts with the AMF independently. Selective spell only alters this interaction for the designated creature (and, implicitly that creature's possesed items).

I believe your view can be summarized as: The only way to achieve "not affected by X" is by cutting a hole in X.

But, if you'll follow that logic to the conclusion, I expect you'll agree that it is unreasonable. For example, suppose an Initiate of Mystra succesfully casts fog cloud into an AMF. If this cuts a hole in the AMF, then anyone inside the AMF and the fog cloud suddenly has access to magic. Do you really believe that's the intended effect of IoM? I'm sure most would say "no".

There are other plausible ways to achieve "not affected by X". Maybe it's "not affected as if a saving throw was made". Or "not affected as if immune". Selective spell doesn't say how "not affected" happens, so we should not assume a mechanism and its implications.

[nyjastul69]

Because you are likely in the middle of the AMF, so the Fireball fizzles out before reaching you (does not work against instantaneous conjurations like Orb of X though)

AMF doesn't make spells fizzle. It suppresses their effect in the given area. AMF does not stop spells from being cast, it simply affects their effects from taking hold for it's duration.

[Grooke]

AMF doesn't make spells fizzle. It suppresses their effect in the given area. AMF does not stop spells from being cast, it simply affects their effects from taking hold for it's duration.

AMF is also an area that doesn't let spells through (first paragraph, before the mention of suppression). The fireball might not fizzle, but it won't go through the outer limit and reach the center.

[nyjastul69]

AMF is also an area that doesn't let spells through (first paragraph, before the mention of suppression). The fireball might not fizzle, but it won't go through the outer limit and reach the center.

There is nothing in the AMF spell description that stops LoE. I don't know what 'let spells through' means.

[Grooke]

"Impervious" means it can't be penetrated.

[nyjastul69]

"Impervious" means it can't be penetrated.

The space within is impervious. The space without is not. Spells can be cast inside an AMF, their effects are suppressed. Spells can be cast through a AMF, the effects of the spell are suppressed while traveling through the AMF. AMF's do not block or cancel casting, they just suppress it.

[Frostthehero]

archmage. modellate spell. antimagic field. you create a "anti magic barrier"

This is one of my favorites. I have pissed off so many DMs doing that. In my opinion, this is the best. Now if I may jump into the debate here. This is an issue of RAI, not RAW. It varies by DM. Some DMs I have played under allowed these sorts of things, some did not. The way I see it, the fireball expands outwards, and cannot pass through the AMF. Regardless, this is a semi viable option.

Another great one is a rod of absorption, priced at 50,000 GP. Not only does it suck up spells, you can use the levels it absorbs to cast spells without expending spell slots.

[Grooke]

If you can't penetrate something, you can't appear on the other side later without going around it (which could be a decent interpretation), and certainly not right in the center of it (where our person of interest is). At best a fireball could "wink out" like a summoned creature, and since its instantaneous, it would not reappear later.

The opposite seems to me like an arrow going through a wall as long as its "pointyness" is suppressed within, but hey, fantasy game so whatever floats your boat.

If I haven't convinced you or other readers, I doubt I will through any further derailing of this thread. My apologies to the OP.


edit reason: mismatched parentheses

[nyjastul69]

If you can't penetrate something, you can't appear on the other side later without going around it (which could be a decent interpretation), and certainly not right in the center of it (where our person of interest is). At best a fireball could "wink out" like a summoned creature, and since its instantaneous, it would not reappear later.

The opposite seems to me like an arrow going through a wall as long as its "pointyness" is suppressed within, but hey, fantasy game so whatever floats your boat.

If I haven't convinced you or other readers, I doubt I will through any further derailing of this thread. My apologies to the OP.


edit reason: mismatched parentheses

I do not find your arguments convincing. I agree that this too derailing for further discussion within the thread. Apologies to the OP.

[Chronos]

Quoth Anthrowhale:

But, if you'll follow that logic to the conclusion, I expect you'll agree that it is unreasonable. For example, suppose an Initiate of Mystra succesfully casts fog cloud into an AMF. If this cuts a hole in the AMF, then anyone inside the AMF and the fog cloud suddenly has access to magic.

I don't see how that follows at all. Why would a Fog Cloud cut a hole in an AMF? Fog, whether natural or magical, doesn't block line of effect. But if you somehow did have fog that blocked line of effect, yes, this would enable everyone inside the AMF to use magic again.

[Anthrowhale]

Why would a Fog Cloud cut a hole in an AMF?

Initiate of Mystra makes spells not be affected by AMF.

Selective spell makes a creature not be affected by AMF.

If the only way to not be affected by AMF is to not be in the effect (as you believe?), then the Initiate of Mystra must end the AMF effect within the area of any spell successfully taking effect within an AMF. Hence, any creature within an IoM[Fog cloud] and an AMF would have full access to magic.

(But, I don't believe the above. RAW, we should not presume the mechanism by which either IoM or Selective spell operates and simply apply the rules as written.)

[Chronos]

I didn't say you weren't in the area; I said you weren't affected by it. One of the effects of an antimagic field is that spells can't affect you. If the antimagic field isn't affecting you, then you don't get that effect, regardless of why the field isn't affecting you.

[Anthrowhale]

I see, I misunderstood the issue.

One of the effects of an antimagic field is that spells can't affect you.

The issue here is that this is not an effect of AMF, but rather a consequence. Reading from here."An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it." Spells not affecting you is a consequence of spell suppression, not an explicit effect of the spell.

Since selective spell does not apply to spells, they continue to be suppressed.

[AngelOfFaith]

So what I'm getting is I'm going to have to have a nice long discussion with my DM on anti magic fields...

A Rod of Absorption sounds like a very reliable way of protection albeit only against targeted spells. This is where I start wishing I had gotten Craft Rod.

And also what exactly is "modellate spell"? All I found was the Archmage's Mastery of Shaping High Arcana but doesn't that pose the same conundrum as Selective Spell?

[Anthrowhale]

All I found was the Archmage's Mastery of Shaping High Arcana but doesn't that pose the same conundrum as Selective Spell?

No---Mastery of Shaping alters the spells area (unlike selective spell). Using that with AMF on your own space means those in adjacent squares are in AMF, but that you are not.