OOTS #979 - The Discussion Thread

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Use the #FAEBD7 color when quoting white text so it stays invisible!

That is very useful to know.

Also, I also appreciate the direction this thread is taking. Shipping and Firefly. *savors*

[Emperordaniel]

Ill be the first to admit that my knowledge of 3.5 rules is sharply limited, but I don't believe that any classes get proficiency with a Bastard Sword without spending a feat on it.

If you use a bastard sword as a two-handed weapon (which Bozzok sometimes did), then it counts as a Martial Weapon, so Bozzok would be able to gain proficiency in it in a two-handed stance by simply taking a level in Fighter or Barbarian or somesuch.

Using it as a one-handed weapon, or as a one-handed weapon and including a shield (as Bozzok did at the beginning), would require spending one to two feats - Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Shield Proficiency, respectively - or take a bunch of nasty penalties in combat (among other things).

Then again, no one ever said that the characters in the comic were optimized^{[citation needed]}...

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Then again, no one ever said that the characters in the comic were optimized^{[citation needed]}...

You take that back! Nowhere is there a more optimized build than straight Fighter!

[Keltest]

If you use a bastard sword as a two-handed weapon (which Bozzok sometimes did), then it counts as a Martial Weapon, so Bozzok would be able to gain proficiency in it in a two-handed stance by simply taking a level in Fighter or Barbarian or somesuch.

Using it as a one-handed weapon, or as a one-handed weapon and including a shield (as Bozzok did at the beginning), would require spending one to two feats - Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Shield Proficiency, respectively - or take a bunch of nasty penalties in combat (among other things).

Then again, no one ever said that the characters in the comic were optimized^{[citation needed]}...

Its not even about optimization, he is going out of his way to take a very counter-intuitive combat style. It wouldn't benefit at all from any dex he would want as a rogue. He has to spend extra feats on it regardless of class. I suppose he could have good dex, str and int for effectively multiclassing as a fighter/rogue, but if that's the case why wouldn't he just go for one class or the other?

[eilandesq]

Its not even about optimization, he is going out of his way to take a very counter-intuitive combat style. It wouldn't benefit at all from any dex he would want as a rogue. He has to spend extra feats on it regardless of class. I suppose he could have good dex, str and int for effectively multiclassing as a fighter/rogue, but if that's the case why wouldn't he just go for one class or the other?

It's a half-orc thing.

[SinsI]

2. Diplomacy skill is BEST EVER OKAY. I will probably never ever make a character who DOESN'T specialize in it. This wasn't bluff because Haley wasn't lying, this was pure truth. LOVE THIS OKAY.

Except there is a very high chance that it wasn't a Diplomacy check but a straight up Charisma DC 19 check, as described in Flesh Golem's Berserk entry. Normally this option is supposed to be extended only to the golem's owner, but since Crystal Golem is intelligent, it looks like it works for anyone.

[theasl]

Use the #FAEBD7 color when quoting white text so it stays invisible!

Now that is useful knowledge. Thank you!

That is very useful to know.

it's #F0E7D3 on my screen. Like so:

#F0E7D3

[Liliet]

Except there is a very high chance that it wasn't a Diplomacy check but a straight up Charisma DC 19 check, as described in Flesh Golem's Berserk entry. Normally this option is supposed to be extended only to the golem's owner, but since Crystal Golem is intelligent, it looks like it works for anyone.

I'm pretty sure that since Crystal golem is intelligent, that rule does not apply period
it's just normal sentient creature diplomacy, rather than some kinda raw willpower subjugation thing as the charisma check would imply

it's #F0E7D3 on my screen. Like so:

Ooh yours looks better! I just picked a color from the predefinined ones and thought it was good enough T_T

[Martok]

Awesome comic! Definitely the best Haley-centric strip I've seen in a long time.

[Emperordaniel]

He has to spend extra feats on it regardless of class.

Not strictly true; so long as he wields it in two hands, a single level in fighter, barbarian, paladin, or ranger would eliminate the need to take a feat to wield bastard swords. Maybe he just has the Shield Proficiency feat, and figures he can eat the -4 attack roll penalty for using the bastard sword one-handed when he's using both at once, seeing as he's at least Redcloak's level if not higher.[/nitpick]

[kenlund]

So does this count as a victory that Haley will get XP for?

[Zyzzyva]

...gotta love how this thread is pretty much the exact opposite of the previous one in how it's descending into shipping and everyone being nice to each other instead of gender politics and losing patience...

You know who I've started shipping? Jimminy and Hannah. Maybe not as a couple, necessarily, but at the very least they need to get together and bitch about their parents.

Good to see her get a chance to show that off, but really, I can't see this persisting for too much longer - Like was said, just because they've an airship doesn't mean they can go chase down all the quests they've missed. While this revenge plot is extremely interesting, in the grand scheme of things, it's equally unimportant. We've divine-feud shenanigans featuring fallen priests and, of course, the main plot to deal with. This slice of Haley's personal life is great and all, but... you know. Places to be, things to do, apocalypses to stop - that sort of thing.

I think that's a misreading of what the comic is about. It's about the characters, not the McGuffin. Basically the only thing that was accomplished, "plot"-wise, in the whole last book, was that they knocked a gate down, on to the next one. But the rest wasn't padding: it was character development.

If Haley needs thirty strips to tie up her backstory plot threads, she's going to get thirty strips.

You take that back! Nowhere is there a more optimized build than straight Fighter!

Preach it, brother! I play a lot of single-classed fighters because I just want to hit things with my sword, ok?

[Emperordaniel]

You take that back! Nowhere is there a more optimized build than straight Fighter!

You're saying all the splatbooks were printed in Nowhere?

[IamWeasel]

I liked this comic a lot, as much as I liked running through the gnomes shop.

There are a few things I would like to point out that I saw. First off Crystal golem is hastened. She is going as fast as Haley, keeping up with her at max speed. I have seen it suggested that Haley was slowing to let Crystal keep up but she wasn't because Crystal was doing that on her own. Haley took her to waters edge to keep get her as far from others as possible and only stopped because she knew her boots were done. In line 3 of panel 2 you can vaguely see the magic of the boots dissipating. She had to succeed or die there because without the boots she could not have outrun Crystal again.

[Reddish Mage]

You take that back! Nowhere is there a more optimized build than straight Fighter!

Except for a Commoner with max ranks in Use Magic Device

[Jaxzan Proditor]

You're saying all the splatbooks were printed in Nowhere?

I mean, they had to be printed somewhere, so why not nowhere? It's better than almost anywhere else.

Except for a Commoner with max ranks in Use Magic Device

Are you trying to imply that there is a better approach to combat than repeatedly hitting something in the face with a weapon over and over and over? Nonsense!

[Amphiox]

Of all the awesome that Haley demonstrates in this strip, it all starts with a small bit of awesome at the beginning, when she brought out the knife to distract Crystal and lure her into breaking the grapple. If she hadn't done that, she'd never have had to chance to do any of the other stuff, and I think she'd be in the lineup at Arcadia right around now....

And that too counts as a use of Charisma in battle - understanding the importance of that object to Crystal and how to use it to alter Crystal's behavior. And so a weapon that one would have thought was useless in this fight, because it did not have enough bonuses to overcome the enemy's damage resistance, is made critically useful after all, thanks to high CHA.

(And perhaps we also get a hint about how Haley and Elan got attracted to one another in the first place. Elan's CHA was explicitly shown to be through the roof early on, but there was no direct mention of Haley's, but subsequent events have shown that she too must have a high score in that stat, making it something they would have shared in common from the get-go).

[goodpeople25]

Are you trying to imply that there is a better approach to combat than repeatedly hitting something in the face with a weapon over and over and over? Nonsense!

Shouting out the true-names of things?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, we have Word of Giant that there will be one more book after this one (and that the final one may or may not be phonebook-sized ), so I figure there's plenty of room yet for not just old subplots to be resolved, but for new ones to pop up before being eventually resolved.

Yes but the size of which phonebook? Slippery Rock Municipal, or are we talking more like Greater Philadelphia?

[Amphiox]

Its not even about optimization, he is going out of his way to take a very counter-intuitive combat style. It wouldn't benefit at all from any dex he would want as a rogue. He has to spend extra feats on it regardless of class. I suppose he could have good dex, str and int for effectively multiclassing as a fighter/rogue, but if that's the case why wouldn't he just go for one class or the other?

Perhaps that Bastard Sword is a family heirloom, wielded once, long ago, by Bozzok's grandfather, whom he admired and worshipped as a little tyke....

Of whatever the equivalent of that kind of motivation might work for an evil character of Bozzok's type.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Not strictly true; so long as he wields it in two hands, a single level in fighter, barbarian, paladin, or ranger would eliminate the need to take a feat to wield bastard swords. Maybe he just has the Shield Proficiency feat, and figures he can eat the -4 attack roll penalty for using the bastard sword one-handed when he's using both at once, seeing as he's at least Redcloak's level if not higher.[/nitpick]

A single level of fighter would get him Shield Proficiency and Martial Weapon Proficiency for free, and a bonus feat to spend on Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

[Emperordaniel]

A single level of fighter would get him Shield Proficiency and Martial Weapon Proficiency for free, and a bonus feat to spend on Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

Somehow I missed that bit about fighters getting free shield proficiency.

I must be getting tired.

[Lombard]

No one's going to mention that Hayley clicked her boots Wizard of Oz style?

"There's no place like gnome"

*drops mic*

[happycrow]

"What have we learned from this comic, boys and girls?"

"Diplomancers are dangerous."

"Correct, class. Now, turn to page 23 of your Rogue's Guide..."

[mouser9169]

FRIENDshipper. FRIEND. V is devoted to vir partner and clearly not poly, and also aro ace anyway

<other spouse>'s ship has sailed. V is a 100% free and free-willed elf. As an added bonus Sabine can be whatever V wants her to be in the bedroom, so V's gender and orientation can remain a mystery.

Vabine shippers unite!

[Breccia]

And then, the last few seconds of Bozzok's life were filled with Incident.

The End.

[Ridin'TheCrash]

I cant believe that worked!

[Dancingdeath]

Oh just so much haha! I hope she kills Bozzok and Grubwiggler. She likely has some kind of control phrase or fail safe built in but it'd be so fitting. Either way one of Haley's personal baddies is gonna get a thorough pwning soon it seems.

[StClair]

Damn, Haley. Well done.

EDIT:

I imagine Grubbwiggler has some sort of password or code that will instantly stop and command his golems. Really, you'd be an idiot not to build that into their design.

That never works, though.

"Stop! You are my creation, I command you to stop!"

[jasonred79]

Food For Thought:

When Crystal was electrified, she became physically faster, and obviously her reaction time sped up too (otherwise she'd be tripping over her own feet) hence her mental state was sped up too.
... In other words... it's quite likely the electrification made her smarter as well as faster. Or at least sped up her brain synapses. (same dif?)

So... we all might have thought that the gnomes screwed Haley by firing that lightning, which might necesitate revenge via pranking them or something, but instead, it turns out that the gnomes were the only reason Crystal Golem was intelligent enough for Haley's complicated (for a golem) explanation to actually make sense to her! Thus, the families of the brave gnomes who died in the line of duty will likely find bags of gold under their beds left by a sneaky anonymous donor. ;)