General Eclipse Phase Thread (Or, TITANs in the Playground)

[LibraryOgre]

I'm a little bothered at some elements, but I personally try to avoid discussing my objections as such discussions veer dangerously close to Politics.

The Mod Wonder: Wise Choice. Careful folks; not throwing any official warnings yet, but it is a touchy subject.

[Grinner]

Still not entirely clear on how the Mesh works, but that's a good idea. The book's a fairly meaty Time, and the Mesh is a chapter I've only had time to skim.

The Mesh is pretty much a solar-system spanning peer-to-peer network.

The computer you're on right now is communicating with the GitP website, right? That communication is called client-server communication, because your computer (the client) is interacting primarily with the GitP server. At no point does your computer ever directly contact mine. Instead, you're leaving a message on the GitP server, which I then read and leave a message in response. In a peer-to-peer network, everyone is communicating directly with everyone else or at least a portion thereof.

The existence of the Mesh is made possible in the game by the fact that nearly everything has a computer in it. Unlike the Internet we know, which uses primarily servers, everything in a given area is directly communicating with whatever else in the area will listen. Hacking the Mesh therefore involves taking control of things via this medium of communication.

Please note that this is all simplified. There are still servers in the Mesh, but they're far less critical to the Mesh's infrastructure.

side note: huh, you guys don't feel all that bothered by the Hypercapitalist portrayals? I'm not either, but on RPG.net people tend to be a little vocal about how Eclipse Phase seems a little skewed towards the Autonomist point of view.

The Hypercapitalists don't really make sense as written. I get that they're holdovers from the Old World, but some of their business practices seem pointless. Infugee indentures, for example. Yes, it's important that someone combs through the archives of backups, restores the sane ones, isolates and tags the infected ones, and so on. However, when you have perfectly functional AGI's doing everything already, why do you need indentured menial labor?

Eclipse Phase does some things quite well, but I fear the Hypercapitalists are strawmen.

[Lord Raziere]

ok ok, lets please not discuss Hypercapitalists if there is even a hint of mod action- which we just gotten. that was not wise of me to bring it up, I apologize.

anyways, lets focus on something else: I am having trouble creating a certain character using the Package System, not for any specific game, but one I hope to fit into a game at some point if the possibility ever arises. The concept is basically this: an Argonaut who also does spy or covert ops work, and is sort of like....how to say it? I keep playing with her backstory a little because I'm not exactly sure how she would come about and get to the situation where she is now, which is some weird Argonaut/Firewall spy or something? She clearly supports the Argonauts, but I'm having trouble imagining how she did so in the past, as well what she did during the Fall, things like that. can anyone help me with that?

[Grinner]

...I'm not exactly sure how she would come about and get to the situation where she is now, which is some weird Argonaut/Firewall spy or something? She clearly supports the Argonauts, but I'm having trouble imagining how she did so in the past, as well what she did during the Fall, things like that. can anyone help me with that?

I went back through the Argonauts' writeup in the corebook and found this line:

Despite a pre-Fall break with many hypercorps before the Fall, which in some cases included expropriating corporate data and resources, the argonauts re-earned favor by providing their expertise in combating the TITANs to all during the Fall.

I think that lines up well with your concept. She spent some time "liberating" corporate data assets prior to the Fall and assisted in combating TITANs during the Fall, both of which gained her the attention of Firewall after the Fall.

[The Grue]

During the Fall is simple enough - statistically speaking, she spent the Fall in a shelter on Earth and somehow managed to escape. Given Argonauts ties perhaps she farcasted or had backups off world arranged by JASON or the Lifeboat Institute or one of the other organizations that later crystallized into the Argonauts.

EDIT: Also worth mentioning is that many of the groups and organizations concerned with human extinction risks pre-fall, the ones that came together and founded Firewall, were themselves part of or closely affiliatrd with those same proto-Argonaut groups. The Argonauts and Firewall are pretty tight.

[The Grue]

Recently got a hold of Million Year Echo, considering running a test game here on GitP.

For those of you who haven't read it, it's an expedition into the Martian TQZ to search the ruins of Quarain for a Firewall person-of-interest. The most interesting hook is, if using the pregen characters, one of the team is a traitor.

I really like the combination of survival-horror with a Werewolf-like element of impending player betrayal, so would probably run with the pregens as chassis for players to modify and tweak.

Sound like something you folks would be interested in?

[Anonymouswizard]

Recently got a hold of Million Year Echo, considering running a test game here on GitP.

For those of you who haven't read it, it's an expedition into the Martian TQZ to search the ruins of Quarain for a Firewall person-of-interest. The most interesting hook is, if using the pregen characters, one of the team is a traitor.

I really like the combination of survival-horror with a Werewolf-like element of impending player betrayal, so would probably run with the pregens as chassis for players to modify and tweak.

Sound like something you folks would be interested in?

I'd certainly be interested in it, but I can't promise I'd be free at optimum times, or even very good, with the limitation that I can't really do anything except PbP (even Skype or a virtual tabletop). I want to play a character at least once in the system, and this sounds interesting. If you could point me towards a set of the pre-gens without any additional information (including the betrayer) I'd be grateful.

[The Grue]

I'd certainly be interested in it, but I can't promise I'd be free at optimum times, or even very good, with the limitation that I can't really do anything except PbP (even Skype or a virtual tabletop). I want to play a character at least once in the system, and this sounds interesting. If you could point me towards a set of the pre-gens without any additional information (including the betrayer) I'd be grateful.

PbP was exactly what I had in mind, actually.

Unfortunately the pregen sheets at the back of Million Year Echo have spoilers - in addition to having numerous errors ;) Since I'd have to reconstruct the sheets anyhow to fix them, I'm in the process of transferring the characters to my own auto-calculating character spreadsheet. For the moment, here's Vastian.

I started with him because his errors were most egregious. His stats given in the book are for an octomorph body(right down to the ink sac), but all the material refers to him bring sleeved in a novacrab. Proofreading is hard.

My thought is to allow an extra 100 CP for additional customization and gear swapping, in order both to correct some omissions in skills and still allow players some creativity and freedom with their characters' exact build.

[Anonymouswizard]

PbP was exactly what I had in mind, actually.

Just making sure I don't sign up for anything I can't do

Unfortunately the pregen sheets at the back of Million Year Echo have spoilers - in addition to having numerous errors ;) Since I'd have to reconstruct the sheets anyhow to fix them, I'm in the process of transferring the characters to my own auto-calculating character spreadsheet. For the moment, here's Vastian.

I started with him because his errors were most egregious. His stats given in the book are for an octomorph body(right down to the ink sac), but all the material refers to him bring sleeved in a novacrab. Proofreading is hard.

Cool, the names and brief descriptions (without who the traitor is) would be useful just so I know what areas to desperately read up on. Vastian looks interesting though, certainly not the kind of character I'd stat up, but certainly one I wouldn't mind seeing in a game or even playing. I'm hoping at least one interests me and isn't what I'd normally play (bruisers, academics, or here Asyncs)

My thought is to allow an extra 100 CP for additional customization and gear swapping, in order both to correct some omissions in skills and still allow players some creativity and freedom with their characters' exact build.

Freebies! I look forward to more information on the game.

[The Grue]

I do have a quick write-up of the seven characters, which I'd planned to include in the Big Sixteen;

Spoiler

Show

Dora Mendoza
Background: Re-Instantiated
Faction: Scum
Morph: Ruster
Skillset: Programmer

Octagon (Li Miulin)
Background: Re-Instantiated
Faction: Hypercorp
Morph: Martian Alpiner
Skillset: Police

Piccolo (Massimo Rossi)
Background: Original Space Colonist
Faction: Jovian
Morph: Flat
Skillset: Espionage

Snorri Guthmansson
Background: Drifter
Faction: Titanian
Morph: Olympian
Skillset: Scientist

Uma (Ushma Gavaskar)
Background: Lost
Faction: Lunar
Morph: Futura
Skillset: Async Bounty Hunter

Not sure on a timeline for when I'll actually be able to run this, or I'd put up a proper recruitment thread. For now, it's just approaching on the horizon.

[Anonymouswizard]

I do have a quick write-up of the seven characters, which I'd planned to include in the Big Sixteen;

Spoiler

Show

Dora Mendoza
Background: Re-Instantiated
Faction: Scum
Morph: Ruster
Skillset: Programmer

Octagon (Li Miulin)
Background: Re-Instantiated
Faction: Hypercorp
Morph: Martian Alpiner
Skillset: Police

Piccolo (Massimo Rossi)
Background: Original Space Colonist
Faction: Jovian
Morph: Flat
Skillset: Espionage

Snorri Guthmansson
Background: Drifter
Faction: Titanian
Morph: Olympian
Skillset: Scientist

Uma (Ushma Gavaskar)
Background: Lost
Faction: Lunar
Morph: Futura
Skillset: Async Bounty Hunter

Dora Mendoza sounds like the one I'd go for skillset wise, but I'll hold off from choosing until actual recruitment begins.

Not sure on a timeline for when I'll actually be able to run this, or I'd put up a proper recruitment thread. For now, it's just approaching on the horizon.

No worries, I have about 4 games in real life I'll be running 'soon'. I really should prepare one of them.

[Grinner]

I've got a question about economics in the transhuman future.

So the economy in the Rim is reliant mostly on the abstract character trait called Reputation, being more of a social economy than anything else. How does that actually work, though? The existence of nanofabbers greatly simplifies things and also removes almost all of the barriers which make intellectual property a viable basis for an economy. This is groovy and all, but there's still one part of the equation which prevents this from being a straightforward post-scarcity economy: material.

Humanity at this point in the story can make a lot from comparatively little, but they can't make it ex nihilo. I recall that certain people on the Rim work as "skimmers", harvesting raw materials from nearby celestial objects. They presumably don't work for free, and given the state of technology, they're really the only ones who need to do any work. That means that the material wealth which allows the anarchists and others to live out there is concentrated in the hands of skimmers. Furthermore, because they probably also have access to the same technology as everyone else in the Rim, they don't actually need to trade with anyone else.

I'm wondering whether the entire economy of the Rim consists of freeloaders living off handouts from the skimmers, or do the other groups actually do something?

[LibraryOgre]

Basically, it works like this:

Bob is a good guy. I know Bob, he'll help out when he can. Thus, Bob has a good reputation, and people are willing to do things for Bob because they know Bob will do things for them if he can. Alternatively, Bob might be known as the guy who CAN do a lot of things, but only bestows his favors sparingly. Bob might still have a good reputation, because people know he CAN do things for them.

Compare that to that bastard, Steve. Steve doesn't help anybody. Don't ask Steve for help; he'll want something, but never returns the favor. Steve has a bad reputation, and it's going to be hard for Steve to get any help, because it's known that he's not helpful.

And, lastly, we have Brian. Brian is a former infogee who's just been decanted. He's got nothing, and no one knows him. He's likely going to start out doing favors for people, and asking minor favors in return, just to build a rep. Because your rep works like credit... folks have to know that you'll pay what you owe, but also that you're willing to owe favors.

[Lord Raziere]

well here is the thing: the Skimmer, if they live out on the Rim, is probably more at the mercy of the community than the community is at the mercy of them. the anarchy and rep thing doesn't stop with them. if the Skimmer is a jerk, their rep goes down and Rep is everything on the Rim. a good Skimmer has a high rep and can purchase what he wants from the fabber as well.

that and from what I've remember of Rimward, the anarchist habs have this "rotational community service" thing going on. its very likely that people take turns being Skimmers so that everyone in the community contributes to the materials, rather than just a couple of guys who monopolize it all. less "ok, this guy gets all stuff and we wait and party" and more like "ok, its your turn to get out there and get us stuff to refill the fabber today, you fail we all suffer, no pressure."

[Grinner]

that and from what I've remember of Rimward, the anarchist habs have this "rotational community service" thing going on. its very likely that people take turns being Skimmers so that everyone in the community contributes to the materials, rather than just a couple of guys who monopolize it all. less "ok, this guy gets all stuff and we wait and party" and more like "ok, its your turn to get out there and get us stuff to refill the fabber today, you fail we all suffer, no pressure."

This makes the most sense. I just remember getting the impression that the skimmers were largely separate from everyone else.

Thanks.

[Anonymouswizard]

that and from what I've remember of Rimward, the anarchist habs have this "rotational community service" thing going on. its very likely that people take turns being Skimmers so that everyone in the community contributes to the materials, rather than just a couple of guys who monopolize it all. less "ok, this guy gets all stuff and we wait and party" and more like "ok, its your turn to get out there and get us stuff to refill the fabber today, you fail we all suffer, no pressure."

Not read Rimward, but there's also the possibility that those on skimmer service are separate to those on design service, and skimmers give materials over so the designers don't start hoarding the designs.

[Lord Raziere]

ok, rereading Rimward:

What about menial work? Thankless jobs that no
one wants to do? Who gets to clean out the sewage
filter traps and scrape the barnacles off the habitat’s
hull? That’s what AIs and robots are for, my friend.
If a sapient’s involvement is required, there’s usually
someone willing to do the grunt work voluntarily, or
more commonly, a group of volunteers will rotate an
assignment. Such a sacrifice is almost always rewarded
with positive reputation boosts.

Confined to the rim,
without armies of indentured slaves at our disposal
like the capitalists have, we sometimes run short on
fuels, metals, or other critical resources. Lacking any
central authority to force agreement, local schisms
sometimes escalate into larger conflicts. These issues
are widely recognized, discussed, and worked against.

so, they do admit that the resource can be a big problem and that menial jobs- which Skimming probably falls under- are voluntary and rewarded with rep, but this is the somewhat slanted writing talking so...I'm pretty sure there was a better quote for this somewhere...

but there is this:

Now, you may have heard it said that we’re a postscarcity
economy, which is partially correct. We’re
working on making it completely correct, but for now
there are a few things that are in short supply: habitable
space, bodies, manufacturing-intense things such
as spacecraft, and exotic things like antimatter and
qubits. Certain hand-made and artistic works also fall
into this category.

also a quote by a guy who dislikes rimward society, talking about he has to vote every six hours and clean the vats in the name of community and how he'd rather be a hypercorp slave for sixteen years then retire rich but thats referring to the Titanians so, who knows, but I think its pretty likely that the anarchists to some extent practice community service type of stuff just to make sure things get done in practice. they have ideals yes, but I'm willing to bet how things really work out is that somebody has to bring in the trash to make into useable goods today and everyone else already has done that so...

[The Grue]

Even in an anarchosocialist reputation economy, there's always somebody at the bottom of the pecking order.

EDIT: +1 @-rep to Mark for the most eloquent explaination of a reputation economy I've yet seen.

[LibraryOgre]

I'm wondering whether the entire economy of the Rim consists of freeloaders living off handouts from the skimmers, or do the other groups actually do something?

A bit more on this... if you assume skimmer is a job, one that requires skills that not everyone has, then consider that developing those skills will come at the expense of other things... either skills they don't have, or things they don't have time to do. Sure, they skimmers get the raw materials that let the cornucopias make things, but other people repair the tools the skimmers use. Still other people provide the art the skimmers and the mechanics enjoy in their off time. Others maintain the Mesh that artists, mechanics, and skimmers rely on to communicate within the habitat. Someone gives killer massages to the techs, artists, mechanics, and skimmers.

And so on. There's always stuff that needs to be done and people who need to do them. In an anarcho-communist society, being useful and game is a big deal.

[Anonymouswizard]

Might finally be running a game this week, but I'll be the only one who knows the setting, so is it better to let players make their own characters or let them take prebuilt ones and customise with 100 rez? I'm leaning towards the latter, because with the additional character types from Transhuman you get a good spread of archetypes and it'll speed up character creation by at least a factor of 10 (none of the players know the setting and none will read the pdf before the game).

[The Grue]

Pregens will certainly save time and let your players get into the game easier. Highly recommend, at least for their first game.

I'll post a link to my compilation of all published pregen characters when I get home. I'm sure you'll find it helpful to have them all in one place.

[The Grue]

As promised.

[Anonymouswizard]

As promised.

Thank you, that'll be incredibly useful, not to just finish brushing up on the combat and Mesh rules.

[The Grue]

I may have something for that as well.

[Zavoniki]

So I'm running one(well two, but the 2nd game people are making characters for) sessions of Eclipse Phase this Saturday as a tutorial to the game. It's going to be set during the Fall and involve the players escaping Seattle. I need 10 pregenenerated characters to use, and I currently have 2 done, and some idea for the rest. I'm counting Background and Faction as NULL and 0 points for the purposes of the game and trying to keep things relatively simple in terms of implants/gear. Currently I have:

Corporate Security Guard(Done)
Neo-Gorilla Security Guard(Done)

Planned:
Anarchist Reporter
Normal Reporter
Neo-Octopus
Some kind of Hacker/Tech guy
Neo-Raven
An AGI
A Cop

Thats 9, and some of those are really not fleshed out at all. Any ideas? Also any suggestions for keeping the game moving quickly. I'm extremely familiar with the system but I'm currently dreading combat.

[Anonymouswizard]

I may have something for that as well.

All this printing, I hope the printer doesn't break. This is awesome though, and exactly what I needed. Printed out and stapled together, and I just need to do the same with a copy of the character creation chapter so people can customise their character without fighting over the book (which will happen, but at least two copies will cut down on the amount of fighting).

[LibraryOgre]

It's probably been mentioned before, but I would highly suggest Chuck's Eclipse Phase Wiki. This page on morphs is fantastic, and really helped me understand some of the aspects of resleeving and its effects on personality.

[Cluedrew]

Eclipse Phase is a game I'm not sure about. Not because it is weird I love weird, I have to flat tone back weirdness sometimes in the things I do, but because I would be playing it already if it wasn't a horror game. I don't like horror as a gene, not in movies and not in games.

But I love the body swapping, I like the idea of a favour based economy and the uplifts make for some interesting alternate races. Firewall's grassroots heroes idea is cool, if not perfectly executed. I have a bunch of ideas for what I would do if I ever played, but I might never just because A) it is hard to get even a D&D group going around here and B) the horror.

[LibraryOgre]

IMO, Eclipse Phase is only as horror as you want it to be. I've always considered it as being somewhat like Shadowrun, instead of being really about horror.

[Cluedrew]

Well, the fact it even has mechanics for it was a pretty strong indicator to me. But I have never actually played the game. If you can run it low horror, how would you do that? Or do it elegantly... or... How would you lower the horror aspects of Eclipse Phase while keeping it as close as possible to the default feel of the game? I mean just "you don't take SAN damage is rather crude". (And isn't SAN called something else in this game?)