Dragonball/Z characters you wish were ultra-powerful but aren't

[Mato]

So I have a question, and am not sure where else to ask it.

Is Super sayian 4, stronger or weaker then Super sayian god?

Technically stronger.

Exact information is unknown but SSj transformations operate as a multiplier to your base power making them faster, stronger,and increasing maximum/available ki so even if the exact values are unknown you still can quantify things. SSj1 is x50, SSj2 is x2 on top of that with SSj3 another x4 meaning SSj3 Goku is four hundred times more powerful than is base form. SSj4 is worth another x10 for a total of four thousand, but there is two values there.

And Beerus beats SSj3 Goku into the ground like it was nothing but he has some problems with SSG Goku. So you can extrapolate from that that the true SSG form increased Goku's power well over four hundred times his normal base for a minimal >x400 transformation, which is forty times the multiplier value of SSj4 it's self. It makes the transformation more powerful than SSj4 alone, but it's unknown if it's stronger than the SSj entire chain (sic the x4,000 total value). So to answer, technically yes. But in total power maybe, maybe not.


Frankly, I find the entire thing as an in your face stfu by Akira Toriyama. You didn't like GT and thought for some reason the sound logic of applying the forgotten about Oozaru form with the ki based Super Saiyen transformation was totally none-cannon, Toriyama - As you are slowly learning is just another George Lucus - is like here my franchise needs more power.

When SSG timed out Goku learned how to sense and manipulate "godly ki", allowing him to continue fighting Beerus in his SSj1 form. This means over the course of the movie Goku increased his power by a minimal >x8 as evidence by the proof godly ki SSj1 Goku (x50) > SSj3 Goku (x400). In other words, Toriyama improved Goku's power by a factor probably around ten using deus ex machina just to shove Z-era Goku up to GT levels. I supposed this is what people get for trying to declare things non-cannon and nerf his precious character.

And then he added another transformation on top of that in the newest film. As I understand it, Goku has mastered SSG's transformation, not just godly ki access, and can combine it with the SSj transformations. So SSG SSj1 has something like x20,000 over base form Goku at the start of the Battle of the Gods film / end of DBZ. And it's now canonical the theorize SSj2/3 on top of that. Because if you haven't missed the point yet: He is nuts.

[Jayngfet]

And, speaking practically - if there are pretty good odds you mother ended up in Hell, would you really want to know that for sure?

...yes?

I mean how is that even a question?

[Rater202]

Technically stronger.

Exact information is unknown but SSj transformations operate as a multiplier to your base power making them faster, stronger,and increasing maximum/available ki so even if the exact values are unknown you still can quantify things. SSj1 is x50, SSj2 is x2 on top of that with SSj3 another x4 meaning SSj3 Goku is four hundred times more powerful than is base form. SSj4 is worth another x10 for a total of four thousand, but there is two values there.

Your math is off.

Super Saiyan four is basically just the Golden Great ape Transformation in a smaller more compact body.

Which means it's the Super Saiyans X50+Great ApesX10 for a total of X500.

[Mato]

Your math is off.

It's spot on. SSj4 is listed as x10, even Death Battle got that part correct so somehow you admitting to knowing less than an intern with google.

Now if you meant to quote this section

You didn't like GT and thought for some reason the sound logic of applying the forgotten about Oozaru form with the ki based Super Saiyen transformation was totally none-cannon

instead of coming off like you're refuting SSj4's x10 it'd only sound like you forgot that the SSj line has three stages, the last one being x400 not x50.

Either way that is a very bad correction on your end. But if you like, I can explain why I think the fan theory that SSj4 really is Super Saiyen mechanic plus Oozaru is fairly sound and how it explains what you might consider an inconsistency about Vegeta's power.

[Rater202]

No, I quoted the correct part.

SSJ4 comes from mastering the Golden Great ape transformation, which is to say, retaining your mind while transformed into the golden great ape.

It is, essentially, the Golden Great apes power compressed into a smaller body.

Now, what is the golden great ape? It is the Great ape transformation combined with the base Super Saiyan Transformation. Note the complete lack of Super Saiyan 2 or 3 characteristics in the golden great ape form.

Base Super Saiyan's X50 combined with Great ape's X10 becomes X500. Since SSJ4 is Golden Great Ape in a compressed Body, it is also X500.

[Jayngfet]

You know, going back to the actual anime after reading through the Manga a few times over I'm realizing exactly why Toriyama wasn't satisfied. Especially going back to the aforementioned bits with Majin Vegeta. There are a lot of moments Toei added with Vegeta and Goku that completely change the context of what's supposed to be going on. Mainly because what was initially only a few sentences of dialogue got dozens of lines added and entire exchanges that were intentionally fast and wordless got drug out for half an episode of conversation. I'm not sure how much was Toei stretching things out for time and how much was Funimation dubbing but Goku's whole character has changed wildly.

...speaking of the Buu saga though, what I'm actually wondering about is Videl's power. On her own she was enough to half fill Buu's canister, but Pui Pui and Yakon charged with Super Saiyan aura weren't even enough to do that together. Pui Pui training under gravity similar to a Saiyan and thus being at least Raditz tier and Yakon's power level puts him somewhere around final form Frieza's level. Videl is somewhere around the Z fighters at the end of Dragonball before training in terms of raw power, but she only had a few months compared to even their year that only got them up to one thousand.

Either Videl is a prodigy beyond even Goku or Gohan must be a teacher like none before him.

[Douglas]

On her own she was enough to half fill Buu's canister

That was Gohan, not Videl.

[Jayngfet]

That was Gohan, not Videl.

My mistake. I must be misremembering then. Point withdrawn.

[Mato]

No, I quoted the correct part.

So you refute SSj4 is not x10 per GT/Games/Xenoverse? Ok, but good luck with that but...

Now, what is the golden great ape? It is the Great ape transformation combined with the base Super Saiyan Transformation. Note the complete lack of Super Saiyan 2 or 3 characteristics in the golden great ape form.

Argument from silence (argumentum e silentio) – where the conclusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence. ~http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Basing things on a fallacy isn't a good way to go about things and it's bad practice to be based on such.

And have you seen the anime? Read the manga? Glanced at the wiki? Played any of the DBZ games?

Spoiler: Visual reference

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Great Apes from the truffle flash back and Oozaru Vegeta form the Sayien Saga

Notice the lack of hair detail.

Base form Baby Vegeta
Notice that there are no hair differences.


SSj1 Baby Vegata
Notice the hair is slicked back as SSj1 normally is.


SSj2 Baby Vegeta, also known as Super Baby 1
Notice the hair is slicked back as SSj2 normally is.


Super Baby 2, also known "Strongest Form 2, which resembles Super Saiyan 3" ~GT's printed encyclopedia
Notice how there is a huge lock of hair that now curls forward and the lack of eyebrows, both pulled from SSj3 Goku's look.


Golden Ape Baby Vegeta
Notice how the hair remains curled forward.


Shadow Dragon Saga Vegata's Oozaru form
Now the best picture, but notice how the hair isn't curled forward.


Factual conclusion: Oozaru Baby Vegata was not in SSj1.

Because it's really easy to know that if you did any of them.

And for the coup de grace

According to Saikyo Jump's June 2014 interview with Akira Toriyama:
Goku endlessly keeps getting stronger, with Super Saiyan 3 in the manga and Super Saiyan 4 in the anime; does Super Saiyan keep getting limitlessly stronger too? Might we eventually see things such as a Super Saiyan 5…?!

Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.

According to the author, SSj2/SSj3 is "Super Saiyen", making SSj3 similar to SSj1 2nd grade and not some other different transformation. Plus the Saiyens don't need to alter their hair to access the associated power increases anyway.

tl;dr: your claim is based on a fallacy, it's totally incorrect vs on screen depictions, and the author says hair style isn't big deal to begin with because there is and always has been only one true Super Sayien transformation.

[Rater202]

Okay, I'm not going to even try to explain all of the things you got wrong in your counter argument. Not things that are factually wrong, but misunderstandings about what my argument is.

Though there are a few minor things factually wrong as well.

You will note that at no point in either anime did vegeta ever become a super saiyan 3.

However, just because he never achived the form in canon does not mean we don't know what it looks like. The Raging blast Games had several What-if scenarios including an SSJ3 Vegeta, shown here in a special image drawn for those games

Spoiler

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You will note that it does not have Super Baby Vegeta 2's hair curl, and does have the really freaking long Hair that is Characteristic of Super Saiyan 3.

Now, he's a picture of Baby's true form shortly before possesing people on earth

Spoiler

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And an admittedly low Quality picture of his fully developed tru form from after he evacuated Vegeta's body.

Spoiler

Show

You will note that the Super Baby Vegeta's face looks an awful lot like the face of babie's true form.

At this point I will remind you that Baby altered Vegeta's body when he claimed it as his permanent host, and that the body came to heavily resemble his own.

In other words, the Super Saiyan 3 face is a coincidence, as Baby has a similar face by default.

You will also note that Super Baby Vegeta completely lacks the really long spiky mullet of power.

And again I remind you that Vegat never obtained SSJ3 at any point in the anime.

I now direct you to the sence of Goku's transformation into a golden great ape.

You will note that Goku is in his base form when he transforms, becomes a regular great ape, and then his fur turns gold. You will note the lack of lightening in his aura, or even the lack of an aura entirely, which means there is no evidence for Super Saiyan 2 to be part of the transformation. You will also note that the fur did not get longer. Not een the head fur that would be hair in base form. The super spikey mullt of power is of course one of the characteristics of the super saiyan 3 transformation. The oly characteristic we know for sure is rpesent is the golden hair which is characteristic of the super saiyan transformation and the lack of aura entirely which is characteristic of Goku's traing that removes the srtrain of the transformation and allows him to remain super saiyan indefinitely.

Now, if we go back to Baby Vegeta for a moment, I will remind you that at no point in the anime did Vegeta beome a Super saiyan 3. Vegeta isn't the type to keep a power like that underwraps, he'd have shown it off and if he didn't Baby would have(and note again, the minor resemblance to super saiyan 3 is only coincidence, Super Baby Vegeta is meant to resemble baby's true body.)

Thus, he did not have the transformation at the time Baby Vegeta became a Golden Great ape, and He probably didn't have it at the time he became a super saiyan 4.

If Super Saiyan 4 is literally just Golden Great ape compressed into a smaller body, and golden great ape apparently does not require the ability to the SSJ3 form, then why would either form incorporate the super saiyan 3 form's power?

If I'm being generous, I'll concede that it has Super Saiyan 2's power since bot Goku and Vegeta possed that form when they became Super Saiyan 4, but either way the form ins't a X4000 modifier. Because all logic dictate that Super Saiyan 3's power is not present in the transformation.

The majority of the evidence suggests the transformation is just basic not ascended power super saiyan combined with the great ape, and that puts it's power at about 500X.

Still much stronger than the SSJ3, but it's basically a separate progression of upgrades. GT Logic is in effect for the name.

And the Toriyama comment is irrelevant, he's specifically talking about Battle of the Gods, and GT is in a separate continuity which he had limited control of.

So please, find a comment from one of GTs writers that SSJ4 is a X4000 form, or that it incorporates SSJ2 and SSJ3 into the form, but until you do, there is zero evidence for such things.

[Psyren]

...yes?

I mean how is that even a question?

When you can't do anything about it, or even go visit, there are indeed plenty of folks who'd just rather not face it at all.

I don't know how much involvement there was by Toriyama in Xenoverse, but the Xenoverse DLC basically says that Dragonball GT takes place ina fractured version of the timeline with several background differences.

Basically it's as canon as the movies, it happened, but not in the main timeline.

I get that, but I don't see the point of debating things that happened outside the main timeline either. For example, we know that in the Future Trunks Doomed Timeline, everyone was weaker (including his androids) and some characters never even showed up at all (e.g. Androids #19 and #20.) No explanation is given for the discrepancy. Without even knowing what factors make character X in timeline Y stronger than character X in timeline Z, we can't begin to make judgments on what multipliers their abilities in each timeline give them. We don't even know what factors make a character appear or not. (Does Cooler even exist in the main timeline, or is Freeza an only child?)

[Mato]

Okay, I'm not going to even try to explain all of the things you got wrong in your counter argument. Not things that are factually wrong, but misunderstandings about what my argument is.

I think I'm getting it now.
False attribution – an advocate appeals to an irrelevant, unqualified, unidentified, biased or fabricated source in support of an argument. ~http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Is a little more accurate.

If I'm being generous, I'll concede that it has Super Saiyan 2's power since bot Goku and Vegeta possed that form when they became Super Saiyan 4, but either way the form ins't a X4000 modifier. Because all logic dictate that Super Saiyan 3's power is not present in the transformation.

Debating the total sum, x4,000, is not the same point is whether or not SSj4 is x10 (it canonically is so you're ice skating up hill) or how you think Super Baby 2's hair looks like a fin even through the official encyclopedic volumes say it was designed off the SSj3 look and pretty much everything else totally wrong that you've tossed out thinking they are all the same.

What you seem to be arguing is Vegeta's access to SSj3 and what the power of his SSj4 form could be. And for that we enter then fan theory I spoke of. The idea is "SSj4" the result of the merge between the Super Saiyen and Oozaru forms rather than a "4th Super Saiyen level".

The theory accounts for GT's display of power difference between Goku and Vegeta that I spoke of but didn't detail. For a quick filler, Baby Vegeta is stronger than Goku who uses superior forms and then they both enter Super Oozaru. So logically, they both should be running the same multipliers right which also means Baby should be stronger but he isn't. This is explained as while in SSj4 Goku is combining SSj3's x400 multiplier with his SSj4/Oozaru transformation's x10. But Baby's psudo-SSj3 isn't the real thing so he isn't packing the same x4,000 total. Again, SSj4's multiplier is not a subject of debate here but the inclusion or exclusion of SSj3. And the theory sides on no, for much of the same reasons you've posted.

Skipped ahead to the Shadow Dragon Saga, Goku fights Nuova, then Syn, then Omega, gets beaten, and then can still match Vegeta's ki levels to fuse. There is an observable limit at far low Vegata can go as equally as how high Goku can go on their later failed attempt. So why is a fresh and ready to fight Vegeta only on the scale of an exhausted Goku? Again, because Vegeta can only combine the SSj2 transformation's x100 with the Oozaru/SSj4's x10 for a substantially lower x1,000. Again, SSj4's multiplier is not a subject of debate here but Vegata's inclusion or exclusion of SSj3. And the theory sides on no, for much of the same reasons you've posted.

This theory fits into every explanation and notation ever offered over the entire course of the franchise. Manga, anime, games, information books with only one hiccup. It's a theory, not fact. But it hits the nail on the head what it seems to be what you're arguing about. It's not that SSj4's multiplier varies, but Vegeta doesn't have the addition of SSj3 so the sum is different.

I personally like the theory, to me it makes perfect sense that Goku's forgotten Oozaru transformation can be used since even back in DBZ it's depicted the original Super Saiyen was a golden ape (anime only, but pre-GT and post SSj1 creation) there was a bit more proof tied to it but idk if I can find the link to it any more. Your mileage will vary, but the next time you want to talk about SSj4 variances at least you have an idea why Vegeta is different rather than asserting random validations that are easily proven wrong.

[Rater202]

I think I'm getting it now.
False attribution – an advocate appeals to an irrelevant, unqualified, unidentified, biased or fabricated source in support of an argument. ~http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Is a little more accurate.

No, it's not accurate at all. Because I'm not using fallacious logic.

Debating the total sum, x4,000, is not the same point is whether or not SSj4 is x10

Here's the problem with this, I never once said that there wasn't a times 10.

That's like, not even tangenitally related to my argument.

I was specifically arguing against the sum of four thausand, from the begining.

You will note that I even twice used the osarus times ten in my own reasoning for the SSJ$ transformation having a power modify of X500.

is different rather than asserting random validations that are easily proven wrong.

You have proven nothing wrong. You're saying that Goku and vegeta now have completly diferant Super Saityan 4 forms, which has no basis in anything.

Also, SSj4 being merger between Super Saiyan and Ozaru is't a fan theory. It's explicitly what needs to happen for the transformation to work.

Otherwise they could have skipped that entire magically regrow Goku's tail and Golden Great ape thing.

Something I found Researching SSJ4

In Dragon Ball Z: Scouter Battle Taikan Kamehameha, Super Saiyan 4 is 10x a regular Super Saiyan in power (matching the 10x Kamehameha multiplier).

Which would put it at 500. Now, that's a videogame and thus not canon, but you yourself previously used the game as a source during the Buu debate.

and According to Dragonball GT Perfect Files, the "fact book" for the series, SSJ4 is seperate from other Transformations in the SSJ line due to it's unique characteristics.

[Jayngfet]

When you can't do anything about it, or even go visit, there are indeed plenty of folks who'd just rather not face it at all.

Generally speaking one would assume that if Goku asked something could be done about it. I mean the favored student of Kaio and mightiest warrior of the afterlife can probably call in a favor or two. Even if they say no it'd probably be interesting to show.

[Rater202]

Well, they did Reincarnate Kid Buu sans evil just because Goku asked...

But then again they were already in the other world so killing him wouldn't have done much and he can scream loud enough to rip through dimensions.

[Durkoala]

Well, they did Reincarnate Kid Buu sans evil just because Goku asked...

But then again they were already in the other world so killing him wouldn't have done much and he can scream loud enough to rip through dimensions.

Since we seem to have entered the complaining phase, I'd like to say that this is one of my biggest peeves with Dragonball Z: how the power level ridiculousness makes the plot tie itself in ever more complicated twists. King Yemma was said to be weaker than North Kai, who is weaker than Freeza, who is much weaker than Cell, who is so much weaker than Buu that even the level beyond the level that killed Cell wasn't enough for Buu. Yet somehow Yemma is able to shove Buu into reincarnation despite Piccolo proving to Babidi that having enough power means that supernatural abilities don't matter. It's not even a matter of Yemma actually being really powerful, as he seemed to be pretty helpless against Vegeta, who was also dead.

Anyway, as far as the original question of who I would like to have more focus, I would have liked to seen Videl get more screentime as she was fairly sane, but also game for anything. Also, since fusion was introduced, there was a way for her to be relevant in the greater scheme of things.

[Mato]

Something I found Researching SSJ4 Which would put it at 500. Now, that's a videogame and thus not canon

Pretty much sums up your entire opinion right there.
It's x500!
*couple posts later*
Finally did some research to back my instantly made opinion, the wiki has a non-cannon comment.


Also your comment about the perfect files doesn't come from the perfect files, the perfect files state SSj4 takes a Saiyen's power to the maximum limit possible, your claim that Ssj4 is limited to SSj1 is the complete opposite of that.

It also ignores the Baby saga, Super Baby 2 can beat SSj3 Goku no Baby Oozaru cannot. Easily redisplayed as Goku is a '1' and in SSj4 is a '400'. Baby is above that and x10'ed for Oozaru meaning your x500 estimate is at least four times lower than what's displayed in the anime. Further SSj4 Goku says to Baby he is even more powerful now than when he was a golden ape at some point which tracts back to the theory of which SSj forms are used in conjunction with it (or that it's more than x10). But I digress because I'm a little happy. You finally read a wiki on the subject you were already talking about.

[Rodin]

Since we seem to have entered the complaining phase, I'd like to say that this is one of my biggest peeves with Dragonball Z: how the power level ridiculousness makes the plot tie itself in ever more complicated twists. King Yemma was said to be weaker than North Kai, who is weaker than Freeza, who is much weaker than Cell, who is so much weaker than Buu that even the level beyond the level that killed Cell wasn't enough for Buu. Yet somehow Yemma is able to shove Buu into reincarnation despite Piccolo proving to Babidi that having enough power means that supernatural abilities don't matter. It's not even a matter of Yemma actually being really powerful, as he seemed to be pretty helpless against Vegeta, who was also dead.

It lead to pretty bad villain fatigue as well.

Vegeta wants the Dragonballs, or he'll blow up the Earth. If he does get them, he'll probably blow it up anyway.
Freeza wants the Dragonballs, or he'll blow up Namek, eventually followed by the Earth. If he does get them, he'll probably blow them up anyway.
The Androids want to kill Goku, and will exterminate all life on the planet if they succeed.
Cell wants to kill Goku, or he'll blow up the Earth.
Buu just wants to blow up the Earth.

By the time the Androids showed up, it was hard to take the villains seriously anymore. By the time Buu shows up, I'm thinking "...Again??"

[Rater202]

A non cannon source that you yourself have used and treated as though it's canon.

Meaning you have exactly 0.0000 millimeters worth of room to talk.

And becuase Maximum power does not say give a specific number, it could well be that it's Basex500.

It could be that the times fifty from SSJ1 and the times 10 from Oozaru, totaled up to time 500 is the maximum power up a saiyan can have.

Now, onto the perfect files: I've managed to find a website with translations of the book's contents

In the TV series, this is called SSJ4. However, V-Jump magazine claims to have inside information that the Super Gokuu 4 form is completely different from the SSJ sequence. Super Gokuu 4 is triggered when Golden Oozaro Gokuu stares at the Earth and gets frustrated at not being able to reach it from Planet Plant. He is a black haired man with lots of muscles, and is covered in red fur. His eyes are also lined in red. He is now stronger than Vejiita-Baby, and even more arrogant. He is also capable of firing off a "Times 10 Kamehame-ha." [fa:e34]

The closest to a line about Maximum power I could find was one that said that it's sole purpose was to make Goku stronger than Baby,and that it was meant to be the "True Legendary Super Saiyan"

That quote is on a seperate page from the one I linked, check the links at the top.

Now, could you please try to be civil in your arguments? Half of the content of your posts have been insults directed at me. That's poor form.

[Psyren]

Yet somehow Yemma is able to shove Buu into reincarnation despite Piccolo proving to Babidi that having enough power means that supernatural abilities don't matter. It's not even a matter of Yemma actually being really powerful, as he seemed to be pretty helpless against Vegeta, who was also dead.

Well, the simple answer here is that SOME supernatural abilities don't matter. Unfortunately, which ones those are appear to be completely arbitrary. So while with sufficient power you can break through Babidi's barrier or ignore his mind control orders, you still have situations like Goku not being able to get around Baba's 1-day return limit, or Gohan having to take off his glove before Dabura's spit turned him into stone.

Anyway, as far as the original question of who I would like to have more focus, I would have liked to seen Videl get more screentime as she was fairly sane, but also game for anything. Also, since fusion was introduced, there was a way for her to be relevant in the greater scheme of things.

I wanted #17 and #18 to have a bigger role. In fact, considering they are both stronger than SSJ1, had they learned fusion they might have been an interesting choice to send against Buu.

The Androids want to kill Goku, and will exterminate all life on the planet if they succeed.

Actually, the main timeline androids would likely have stopped at Goku. Even if #17 and #18 had wanted to destroy everything after that, #16 would not have let them, and he is significantly stronger than they are.

[Douglas]

Actually, the main timeline androids would likely have stopped at Goku. Even if #17 and #18 had wanted to destroy everything after that, #16 would not have let them, and he is significantly stronger than they are.

Even the FutureTrunks versions of #17 and #18 weren't really exterminating everyone. They were just having fun, didn't care about consequences to anyone but themselves (and had the power to ignore anyone trying to force consequences on them), and happened to enjoy violence. If they were actually trying to wipe people out they could have been much more systematic and thorough about it.

[Rater202]

Well, the simple answer here is that SOME supernatural abilities don't matter. Unfortunately, which ones those are appear to be completely arbitrary. So while with sufficient power you can break through Babidi's barrier or ignore his mind control orders, you still have situations like Goku not being able to get around Baba's 1-day return limit, or Gohan having to take off his glove before Dabura's spit turned him into stone.

Chances are, Buu did not retain his body after death. Since it's atomization is what killed him and it's unlikely he's have been given a new one.

Lacking a body might have adversely affected his ability to resist being forced into reincarnation.

Pure speculation, of course.

[Psyren]

He also may lack a proper soul, given that he was artificially created by Bibidi's magic. Thus his high power while alive may not matter when he dies the way it does for other inhabitants of the Dragonball setting do. So there are a lot of possible reasons to explain this phenomenon.

[Rater202]

He also may lack a proper soul, given that he was artificially created by Bibidi's magic. Thus his high power while alive may not matter when he dies the way it does for other inhabitants of the Dragonball setting do. So there are a lot of possible reasons to explain this phenomenon.

Yeah, about that... Toriyama-sensei said, in an interview years later, that Bibbidi didn't so much create Buu as much as he summoned him. Buu was apparently as old as the universe.

[Psyren]

Yeah, about that... Toriyama-sensei said, in an interview years later, that Bibbidi didn't so much create Buu as much as he summoned him. Buu was apparently as old as the universe.

Even so, that doesn't exactly contradict a "his soul is different in some way than every other living thing" theory.

[Jayngfet]

Even so, that doesn't exactly contradict a "his soul is different in some way than every other living thing" theory.

Not really. You need to remember that the universe accounts for a large number of varied organisms that all have souls and pass on. Even considering this Buu isn't a one off abomination so much as another form of organism. He eats matter, expels waste, and is capable of reproducing either asexually or with a female of the same species. Everything else he's done, absorbing energy, splitting based on moral "halves", and transforming or summoning matter, can and has been done by more "normal" individuals, mostly humans and namekians. Mainly because those things can be done via magic and presumably Buu accomplishes them by also doing magic.

There's nothing to suggest that his soul itself is in any way abnormal. If there's a single overriding "normal" soul that functions the same way for everything from demon kings to distant aliens to random people on the street to the gods themselves, odds are Buu's soul works in a similar manner.

[Rater202]

It's been a while and I can't remember if I posted it in here already, so I'm going to post it again at risk of repeating myself.

I wihsh they'd done more with Raditz.

Most of Goku's friends and allies started out as his enemies. Some of them even tried to kill him.

But Raditz, his brother, is killed off a few chapters after his introduction and never gets mentioned again.

[Lord Raziere]

It's been a while and I can't remember if I posted it in here already, so I'm going to post it again at risk of repeating myself.

I wihsh they'd done more with Raditz.

Most of Goku's friends and allies started out as his enemies. Some of them even tried to kill him.

But Raditz, his brother, is killed off a few chapters after his introduction and never gets mentioned again.

Yeah. they should've done Resurrection of R instead.

just imagine: somehow, someone wishes for Raditz to come back, and he bursts out of Hell, suddenly a super-badass on par with Vegeta or Goku because he fought to get stronger all those years in Hell- after all, if Goku can achieve super-saiyan three in the afterlife, why not Raditz too? he then decides to get his revenge and attack Goku and they'd be like "oh its just Raditz, he is still at a power level of 1000-"*PWNED* because Raditz leaned how to hide his power level.

and suddenly, no one makes jokes about Raditz ever again, because he would've like, achieved Super-Saiyan 3 as well, which would tick off Vegeta to no end.

[Starwulf]

Yeah. they should've done Resurrection of R instead.

just imagine: somehow, someone wishes for Raditz to come back, and he bursts out of Hell, suddenly a super-badass on par with Vegeta or Goku because he fought to get stronger all those years in Hell- after all, if Goku can achieve super-saiyan three in the afterlife, why not Raditz too? he then decides to get his revenge and attack Goku and they'd be like "oh its just Raditz, he is still at a power level of 1000-"*PWNED* because Raditz leaned how to hide his power level.

and suddenly, no one makes jokes about Raditz ever again, because he would've like, achieved Super-Saiyan 3 as well, which would tick off Vegeta to no end.

That would quite possibly be the best thing ever done for Dragonball Z :)

[Rodin]

If they really wanted to go for a twist, they could kill Raditz off halfway through his own movie when a Super Saibaman attacks. The Super Saibaman goes on to kick everybody's asses, until it's blown up by a suicide attack...from Yamcha.

Okay, it's just possible I've been watching a little too much DBZ Abridged.