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    Default Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    The Gentle Breeze discipline teaches its initiates to give attention to the world around them. A Gentle Breeze adept is able to predict his opponents attacks and strike like the wind itself. Gentle Breeze’s preferred weapons are the Katana, Scimitar, War-fan and unarmed strike. Listen is the key skill for Gentle Breeze.



    Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres


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    1st level
    Feather’s Flight - Counter
    Wind’s Warning – Counter
    Wind’s Speed – Boost
    Move Like a Breeze – Stance

    2nd level
    Falling Leaf Strike- Strike
    Wind Slash – Strike
    Wind’s Flow – Counter

    3rd level
    Walk with the Wind – Stance
    Whispering Wind Stance – Stance
    Wind’s Betrayal – Strike
    Wind Razor – Strike

    4th level
    Gale Slash – Strike
    Run on the Wind – Boost
    Let the Wind Pass by – Counter

    5th level
    Hurricane Slash – Strike
    Plummeting Acorn Strike – Strike
    Slashing Draft - Counter

    6th level
    Falling Rain Strike – Strike
    Rushing Wind - Strike
    Rapid Winds Strike – Strike

    7th level
    Cut the Rain – Counter
    Hurricane Charge – Strike
    Tempest Slash – Strike

    8th level
    Roaring Wind Stance – Stance
    Tempest Stance – Stance
    Whirlwind Slash - Strike

    9th level
    Act as the Wind – Counter



    Manoeuvre discriptions

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    Act as the Wind

    Gentle Breeze (Counter)
    Level: Swordsage 9, Warblade 9
    Prerequisite: Any 4 Gentle Breeze manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Free or Immediate action (see text)
    Range: Personal
    Target: Self
    You gain an immediate full round worth of actions. You move so fast that nobody may make an attack of opportunity or take an immediate action during this free round. This manoeuvre can only be used in any of the following circumstances
    After you have moved at least 30 ft. and used another Gentle Breeze Manoeuvre. In this case you may use this manoeuvre as a free action.
    After an opponent within 30 ft. takes an immediate action. You must make a listen check opposed by his attack bonus. Whoever wins has their immediate action resolved first.
    After an opponent moves within 15 ft. of you. Make a listen check against his current initiative value. If you win then his action does not resume until after you have taken your full round action.

    The round after using this manoeuvre you can still make immediate and swift actions but otherwise count as stunned but.

    Cut the Rain

    Gentle Breeze (Counter)
    Level: Swordsage 7, Warblade 7
    Prerequisite: Any 4 Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Immediate Action
    Range: 30 ft.
    Target: Opponents at least 5 ft. off the ground
    You make an attack at your highest base attack bonus at every creature within 30 ft. who is at least 5 ft. off the ground (or is currently making a jump check). On your next available action you count as stunned for 1 round.

    Falling Leaf Strike

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 2, Warblade 2
    Prerequisite: None
    Initiation Action: Readied attack action
    Range: Personal
    Target: 1 opponent
    You may ready a standard action to use this manoeuvre on any turn that you are currently in the air. If you land after falling with an opponent within reach, you make a melee attack that deals an additional 1d6 damage (of the same type as that of weapon you’re using) for every 10 ft. you fell this round up to 6d6 points of damage with a melee attack. If you successfully hit your opponent you may ignore up to 40 ft. of fall distance or you may choose to reduce the effective fall distance as normal with a tumble check.

    Falling Rain Strike

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 6, Warblade 6
    Prerequisite: Any three Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Full Attack action
    Range: Personal
    Target: Opponents within area
    Area: 15 ft. by 15 ft. square
    You may only use this manoeuvre after falling at least 20 ft. You make an attack at your highest base attack bonus against all opponents within the area. You may not make your 5-foot step for this round until you have resolved this action.

    Feather’s Flight

    Gentle Breeze (Counter)
    Level: Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
    Prerequisite: None
    Initiation Action: Immediate Action
    Range: 30 ft.
    Target: One medium or small freefalling object or creature
    Duration: until landing or 1 round/level (max 5 rounds)
    The effected creature or object falls slowly at a speed of 60 ft. per round and takes no damage when it hits the ground. You may control the direction of the falling creature or object, moving 5 ft. horizontally for every 15 ft. it falls.

    Gale Slash

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 4, Warblade 4
    Prerequisite: Any 2 Gentle Breeze Manuovres
    Initiation Action: Standard
    Range: 60 ft.
    Target: One Creature
    You make a ranged touch attack that deals 8d6 points of sonic damage.
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Hurricane Charge

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 7, Warblade 7
    Prerequisite: Any 4 Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Swift
    Range: Charge Attack
    Target: Opponents you move past
    Area: 5 ft. radius burst cantered on you
    All opponents you move past while charging suffer 4d6 points of sonic damage. If you successfully hit an opponent at the end of your charge you deal an additional 10d6 points of sonic damage to all opponents within 5 feet of you.
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Hurricane Slash

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 5, Warblade 5
    Prerequisite: Any three Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Standard
    Range: 60 ft.
    Target: One Creature
    Area: 5 ft. wide Line
    Saving Throw: Reflex Half
    A tempestuous hurricane bursts force from your blade and travels in a line, dealing 6d6 points of sonic damage. Creatures may attempt a reflex save (DC 15 + wisdom modifier) for half damage. Anyone standing at the end of the line suffers an additional 4d6 sonic damage and is thrown backwards as though he had been bull rushed by you.
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Move like a Breeze

    Gentle Breeze (Stance)
    Level: Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
    Prerequisite: Any single Gentle Breeze Manoeuvre
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Target: Self
    Duration: Stance
    You may avoid attacks of opportunity for moving with the Listen skill as though it was the tumble skill.

    Plummeting Acorn Strike

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 5, Warblade 5
    Prerequisite: Any 4 Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Readied Standard action
    Range: Personal
    Target: 1 opponent
    You may ready a standard action to use this manoeuvre on any turn that you are currently in the air. If you land after falling with an opponent within reach, you make a melee attack and deal 1d6 bonus damage (of the same type as that of weapon you’re using) for every additional 5 ft. you fell this round after the first 30 ft. up to 16d6 points of damage. If you successfully hit your opponent you may ignore up to 60 ft. of fall distance or you may choose to reduce the effective fall distance as normal with a tumble check.

    Rapid Winds Strike

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 6, Warblade 6
    Prerequisite: Any 4 Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Full Attack
    Range: 60 ft.
    Target: Up to six targets within 30 ft. of each other
    As Wind Razor, except that you may make your normal number of attacks you would make with a full round action.
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Roaring Wind Stance

    Gentle Breeze (Stance)
    Level: Swordsage 8, Warblade 8
    Prerequisite: Any 4 Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Target: Self
    Duration: Stance
    You gain a 60 ft. fly speed with good manoeuvrability
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Run on the wind

    Gentle Breeze (Boost)
    Level: Swordsage 5, Warblade 5
    Prerequisite: Any 2 Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Range: Personal
    Target: Self
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You may use this boost whenever you move at least 40 ft. in a round. Make a DC 20 listen check; if you succeed then you may make the remainder of your move in any direction. If you choose to move upwards you fall to the ground at the end of the next round, although you may ready actions to attack after the fall.
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Rushing Wind

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 6, Warblade 6
    Prerequisite: Any 4 Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Standard
    Range: 60 ft.
    Target: 1 opponent
    You make a bull rush attempt against a single opponent within range except that you do not actually need to move (and cannot follow up) to do so. Unlike normal Bulrush you may move your opponent 5 ft. upwards for every 10 ft. he moves horizontally.
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Slashing Draft

    Gentle Breeze (Counter)
    Level: Swordsage 5, Warblade 5
    Prerequisite: Any 2 Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Immediate
    Range: 15 ft.
    Target: Flying creatures within area
    Area: 15 ft. wide, 100 ft. tall column
    Saving Throw: Reflex Half
    You create a massive column of ki charged air originating from 15 ft. above you that deals 4d6 points of sonic damage to all creatures within it. Creatures may attempt a reflex save (DC 15 + wisdom modifier) for half damage.
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Tempest Slash

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 7, Warblade 7
    Prerequisite: None
    Initiation Action: Standard
    Range: 60 ft.
    Target: One Creature
    Area: Cone
    Saving Throw: Reflex Half
    You a tempestuous hurricane bursts force from your blade in a cone, dealing 8d6 points of sonic damage. Creatures may attempt a reflex save (DC 17 + wisdom modifier) for half damage. Creatures who fail their save must make a strength check (DC 11 + your wisdom modifier) or be knocked 10 ft. in a random direction and fall prone.
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Tempest Stance

    Gentle Breeze (Stance)
    Level: Swordsage 8, Warblade 8
    Prerequisite: Any 4 Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Target: Self
    Duration: Stance
    Area: 15 ft. radius
    Any character who moves within the area of this stance has their movement speed halved. Ranged weapons used against you suffer 50% miss chance. Flyers must make a strength check (with a bonus equal to their size based grapple modifier) against a DC of 10 + your initiator level + your wisdom modifier to enter the area.
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Walk with the Wind

    Gentle Breeze (Stance)
    Level: Swordsage 3, Warblade 3
    Prerequisite: Any single Gentle Breeze Manoeuvre
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Target: Self
    Duration: Stance
    You gain sonic resistance equal to the twice the distance you move this round (max 30).
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Whirlwind Slash

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 8, Warblade 8
    Prerequisite: Any 3 Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Full Round
    Range: 60 ft.
    Target: 1 square per four initiator levels.
    Duration: 1d3 rounds (roll individually for each cyclone)
    Area: Cyclones 10 ft. by 10 ft. wide, 30 ft. tall
    Save: Reflex negates (see text)
    This spell creates a number of powerful cyclones of raging wind that moves through the air, along the ground, or over water at a speed of 60 feet per round. You create 1 cyclone per four initiator levels. The cyclones always moves during your turn. They move in a random, uncontrolled fashion for 1d3 rounds and then dissipate.
    Any Large or smaller creatures or objects that comes in contact with the cyclone must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 18 + wisdom modifier) or take 6d6 points of sonic damage. All Medium or smaller creatures or objects that fail their first save must succeed on a second one or be picked up bodily by the cyclone and held suspended in its powerful winds, taking 2d8 points of sonic damage each round on your turn with no save allowed. When a cyclone dissipates then all carried creatures fall 30 ft. towards the ground.
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Whispering Wind Stance

    Gentle Breeze (Stance)
    Level: Swordsage 3, Warblade 3
    Prerequisite: Any 2 Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Target: Self
    Duration: Stance
    Area: 15 ft. radius
    You gain blind-sense with a range of 15 feet.

    Wind Razor

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 3, Warblade 3
    Prerequisite: Any single Gentle Breeze Manoeuvre
    Initiation Action: Standard
    Range: 60 ft.
    Target: One Creature
    You make a ranged touch attack that deals 4d6 points of slashing damage.
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Wind’s Betrayal

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 3, Warblade 3
    Prerequisite: Any single Gentle Breeze manoeuvre
    Initiation Action: Standard
    Range: Melee
    Target: 1 opponent
    Your attack deals an additional 1d6 sonic damage for every 10 ft. your target moved this round, maximum 6d6.

    Wind’s Flow

    Gentle Breeze (Counter)
    Level: Swordsage 2, Warblade 2
    Prerequisite: Any 1 Gentle Breeze manoeuvre
    Initiation Action: Immediate Action
    Range: Personal
    Target: Self
    If an opponent attacks you, make a listen check against their attack roll. If you succeed then your opponent gets no extra damage from sneak attack or similar abilities.

    Wind’s Speed

    Gentle Breeze (Boost)
    Level: Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
    Prerequisite: None
    Initiation Action: Swift Action
    Range: Personal
    Target: Self
    Duration: 1 round
    You gain a +10 bonus to speed.

    Wind Slash

    Gentle Breeze (Strike)
    Level: Swordsage 2, Warblade 2
    Prerequisite: None
    Initiation Action: Standard
    Range: 60 ft.
    Target: One Creature
    You make a ranged touch attack that deals 2d6 points of slashing damage.
    This manoeuvre is a supernatural ability.

    Wind’s Warning

    Gentle Breeze (Counter)
    Level: Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
    Prerequisite: None
    Initiation Action: Immediate Action
    Range: Personal
    Target: Self
    You may act in a surprise round and do not count as flat-footed. This manoeuvre may be used even when you could not normally take an immediate action.

    Let the wind pass by

    Gentle Breeze (Counter)
    Level: Swordsage 4, Warblade 4
    Prerequisite: Any 2 Gentle Breeze Manoeuvres
    Initiation Action: Immediate Action
    If an opponent charges you, you may make a listen check against his current initiative. If you pass, you move 5 ft. to either the left or the right of your opponent. Your opponent then continues to move his full maximum charge distance past you, provoking attacks of opportunity from you and others as normal.




    Feats



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    React with the wind’s flow (General)
    Prerequisite: Combat Reflexes
    Benefit: Whenever you are in a Gentle Breeze stance, you add your wisdom modifier to initiative checks and never count as flanked.

    Ear to the mistress’ subtleties (Tactical)
    Prerequisite: React with the wind’s flow, Base attack bonus +6, any two Gentle Breeze manoeuvres.
    Ever open ear: You may make a listen check as a free action whenever you wish.
    Aerial Strike: Whenever you attack an opponent whose feet are off the ground you may add your wisdom modifier as an insight bonus on attack rolls and deal an additional 1d6 points of damage. If both you and your opponent have their feet of the ground you deal an additional 2d6 points of damage instead.
    Aerial Defence: You retain your dexterity and dodge bonuses to armour class when in the air, no matter the circumstances.




    Rebalancing advice and new name ideas for some of the lame sounding manoeuvres would be welcome.
    Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2007-04-14 at 03:28 PM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    This breeze sure doesn't seem very gentle.

    It may be because I'm unfamiliar with most of the components here (ToB, Swordsage and Warblade, disciplines, maneuvers) but most of these seem rather strong. I'll let someone else weigh in on that, though.

    Hurricane slash - you say it travels forth in a line, but you don't say how long this line is, which is an important detail if you have anyone caught at the end of the line suffers a chance of being thrown back.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnor Criol View Post
    This breeze sure doesn't seem very gentle.
    It's called Irony. Swordmasters like to pretend they're subtler than they actually are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnor Criol View Post
    Hurricane slash - you say it travels forth in a line, but you don't say how long this line is, which is an important detail if you have anyone caught at the end of the line suffers a chance of being thrown back.
    The length is in the range description.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Huh. If that was a snake, it woulda bit me. Plain didn't see it.

    As for the irony thing - I know, I was joking. =p

    I got nothin', then, save for the 'it seems strong' bit which I can't really guage since I don't know anything about when someone should be able to get this. It's got a nice feel to it overall, though, and someone who's willing to keep track of their various maneuvers could really clean up a fight.

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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    It's spelled "maneuver".

    Also, waaaay to many spoilers. Use one for the level by level short descriptions, one for the alphabetical detailed descriptions, and one for the feats.

    Slashing draft is very specific, it doesn't need the stun drawback.

    Walk with the wind is also really specific, and most people would never take it, since the whole point of sonic is that few people use it.

    I would rename "let the wind pass by" as "sway with the wind". It's also not a 5' step, just say "move 5 feet".

    "Move like a breeze" can be "drift on the breeze". It doesn't really matter if the turns of phrase make sense for the maneuver, as long as they sound pretty.

    Everything else looks good, though it's not really needed. People that like options will like it, and people that like the exclusivity of the nine disciplines will not. I would also suggest running a board search for "falling star", to take a look at the falling star discipline, you might like it.
    Attention Imgur Users! Imgur apparently doesn't like hosting images anymore and only works in certain places or for people who already have the image cached: No one can see your avatars or images!

    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnor Criol View Post
    Huh. If that was a snake, it woulda bit me. Plain didn't see it.
    I should probably make it clearer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnor Criol View Post
    As for the irony thing - I know, I was joking. =p
    Euphamism would probably be more correct. Or possibly not since I was planning on making it a lot more gentle than it turned out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnor Criol View Post
    I got nothin', then, save for the 'it seems strong' bit which I can't really guage since I don't know anything about when someone should be able to get this. It's got a nice feel to it overall, though, and someone who's willing to keep track of their various maneuvers could really clean up a fight.
    You can get them at roughly the same time a Wizard would get spells of that level. Compared to 9th level spells some of them aren't that great while others are pretty much equal to spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    It's spelled "maneuver".
    British English. +10 bonus on all saving throws vs spelling corrections.

    I actually prefer the american spelling in this case since the British one is too complicated. I just didn't want all these red lines in my word document.
    Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2007-04-14 at 01:39 PM.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Wind's Betrayal seems extraordinarily powerful coupled with a charge and increased land speed. A Barbarian 2/Warblade 4 can activate Wind's Speed as a swift action and move 70' before activating the strike, netting himself 7d6 points of sonic damage, which is a little excessive for an ECL 6 character. It gets worse at higher levels, particularly with the cunning use of Xephs.

    For Falling Leaf/Plummeting Acorn/etc., can one make a jump check for a vertical leap to gain these bonuses? If so, you might want to enumerate that in the maneuvers.

    Rapid Winds Strike's Target line should probably read "Up to eight targets; see text."
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2007-04-14 at 02:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Maneuvers, though, are usable practically at will, unlike spells; a maneuver goes from expended to readied in either a full-round action (Swordsage), a Swift action with a possible extra Standard (Warblade), or four rounds of waiting (Crusader), or by just not fighting nor initiating any for a minute. Further, those recover all of your maneuvers (unless you're playing a Swordsage without Adapative Style, i.e. 1st level, 2nd level, or terminally stupid).

    Now, for comments on the discipline:
    Zeroth, how do you get access to it? As you have it written, these maneuvers can only be learned through Martial Study and Master of Nine levels (maybe; it only grants access to nine disciplines). When I worked on a similar project (not finished yet), I added a feat that added one of the new disciplines to your class list, and the possibility of certain classes trading their normal disciplines for these. If you go with the latter, I'd probably allow Stone Dragon to be traded out for this by Swordsages, and maybe by Warblades. Crusaders are too defensive of a class to really use this.

    First, put your maneuvers on the list in some kind of reasonable order. Alphabetical is standard, but if you want to go by level, then alphabetical, that works too (might even be better).

    Secondly, I second using fewer spoiler tags. You're making looking at the maneuver descriptions too much work.

    Feather's Flight needs a duration expressed in something other than feet. Did you mean rounds, or is it supposed to only save you from really, really short falls?

    The Wind Slash series just sits wrong with me. Could do with some more flavor, perhaps. I also think it might be slightly overpowered. Also, prerequisites on those.

    Wind's Speed is overpowered; there's a 1st level boost in Desert Wind that grants +10 to speed until the end of your turn. All 1st-level maneuvers should be roughly balanced with eachother, regardless of their disciplines' specializations; if that means making the same maneuver appear twice, with the only changes being name, bonus type, and which discipline it counts as for satisfying prereqs, so be it (see Vanguard Strike and Leading the Attack, in Devoted Spirit and White Raven). If you want this discipline to be more specialized in movement than Desert Wind is, you can add more high-end movement abilities.

    Wind's Betrayal needs a cap on its damage.

    Falling Leaf Strike seems overpowered; it is a second level maneuver able to do 6d6 damage routinely, and, should a player get that maneuver, they will arrange to fall from 60' onto their enemies every time you fight outdoors. Nonetheless, on comparison to Fire Riposte (2nd level counter, 4d6 fire damage, supernatural) it seems balanced, but, on comparison to all of the other extraordinary, untyped damage 2nd-level maneuvers, we have Mountain Hammer (+2d6, ignore DR and hardness), Claw at the Moon (+2d6 with a jump check), and Tactical Strike (+2d6 and free 5' steps for allies), it seems overpowered. Perhaps drop the cap to 4d6, and merely reduce effective fall distance by 60'?

    Also, don't let anyone jump off a cliff (let's say 50'), move, and initiate this strike, then take no falling damage because they hit, or take falling damage because they missed; you could end up in weird quantum situations where them missing on that attack causes the fall to have killed them, or, even weirder, where a Crusader does this, misses, retroactively took the falling damage, dumps it into their delayed damage pool, and the Furious Counterstrike bumps them up to hitting.

    Those are just the first ones; I'd go over each maneuver, and compare it to all existing maneuvers of the same level and similar effect, and nerf accordingly. I would then compare the discipline as a whole to the other disciplines, and make sure that it doesn't infringe on what any other discipline does, too much: Desert Wind has supernatural attacks, movement, and area attacks; Devoted Spirit protects your allies, heals, and uses alignment; Diamond Mind destroys single targets, protects you (including some movement), and deals with the mental fight; Iron Heart hits multiple enemies, fights recklessly, and lives on force of will; Setting Sun defends, disables your enemies' strength, and throws; Shadow Hand does stealth, ability damage, teleportation, and that stuff; Stone Dragon has and ignores damage reduction, uses size-based brute force, and has all of the stuff to mess with size; Tiger Claw does two-weapon fighting, jumping, and a whole lot of barbaric/animalistic stuff; White Raven leads.

    Naturally there is overlap. Desert Wind and Shadow Hand both have teleportation; Diamond Mind and Iron Heart both have ridiculous single-combat attacks (as does Stone Dragon); Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw both have boosts to give you extra movement when you need it, and White Raven can give everyone else extra movement; Devoted Spirit and White Raven have the same maneuver by two different names; Devoted Spirit and Stone Dragon can both grant you damage reduction. Nonetheless, each discipline should have one (or a few) things that it does really, really well, and the other disciplines shouldn't be as good as that one at it. This extends back to the core disciplines; a new discipline shouldn't be better than a core discipline at the core's strength. This must be managed, though, within a context of balanced maneuvers.
    Last projects, from years back: Lesser Disciplines (Tome of Battle). Also, Never Behind the Curve (multiclassing).

    Some of my current work is under the name IGTN on D&D Wiki

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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Slashing draft is very specific, it doesn't need the stun drawback.
    The stun drawback is there because I wanted this to be a full round action but realised it was too hard to set up. I'll remove it for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Everything else looks good, though it's not really needed. People that like options will like it, and people that like the exclusivity of the nine disciplines will not. I would also suggest running a board search for "falling star", to take a look at the falling star discipline, you might like it.
    Already looked at it. Though an archery discipline has more justification to exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    Wind's Betrayal seems extraordinarily powerful coupled with a charge and increased land speed. A Barbarian 2/Warblade 4 can activate Wind's Speed as a swift action and move 70' before activating the strike, netting himself 7d6 points of sonic damage, which is a little excessive for an ECL 6 character. It gets worse at higher levels, particularly with the cunning use of Xephs.
    Maybe I should have made it clearer. Wind's Betrayal is based on how much the enemy moves, meaning that it can come up often in certain encounters but be useless in others. Still it needs a cap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    For Falling Leaf/Plummeting Acorn/etc., can one make a jump check for a vertical leap to gain these bonuses? If so, you might want to enumerate that in the maneuvers.
    You can get those bonuses from any means you have of getting higher in the air. Since vertical height caps at 8 feet most characters won't be able to jump that high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    Rapid Winds Strike's Target line should probably read "Up to eight targets; see text."
    Probably. Wouldn't usually be as much as four targets unless you're hasted or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Got_This_Name View Post
    Zeroth, how do you get access to it? As you have it written, these maneuvers can only be learned through Martial Study and Master of Nine levels (maybe; it only grants access to nine disciplines). When I worked on a similar project (not finished yet), I added a feat that added one of the new disciplines to your class list, and the possibility of certain classes trading their normal disciplines for these. If you go with the latter, I'd probably allow Stone Dragon to be traded out for this by Swordsages, and maybe by Warblades. Crusaders are too defensive of a class to really use this.
    I already gave them levels for Swordsage and Warblade. Adding new disciplines has this problem though

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Got_This_Name View Post
    First, put your maneuvers on the list in some kind of reasonable order. Alphabetical is standard, but if you want to go by level, then alphabetical, that works too (might even be better).
    I did in the text document after I posted them. Might as well redo the post entirely with less spoilers.

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Got_This_Name View Post
    Feather's Flight needs a duration expressed in something other than feet. Did you mean rounds, or is it supposed to only save you from really, really short falls?
    I'll look at fixing that then.

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Got_This_Name View Post
    The Wind Slash series just sits wrong with me. Could do with some more flavor, perhaps. I also think it might be slightly overpowered. Also, prerequisites on those.
    It's based of an incredibly dodgy concept called Sword Pressure. I might make it so the lower level versions aren't touch attacks. As it stands, Wind Razor is weaker than Shadow Garrote, a similar ability of the same level. Wind Slash is weaker than what you could do if you merely charged the 60 ft. range and hit the target with a greatsword but has the benifit of being able to hit low flying targets.

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Got_This_Name View Post
    Wind's Speed is overpowered; there's a 1st level boost in Desert Wind that grants +10 to speed until the end of your turn. All 1st-level maneuvers should be roughly balanced with eachother, regardless of their disciplines' specializations; if that means making the same maneuver appear twice, with the only changes being name, bonus type, and which discipline it counts as for satisfying prereqs, so be it (see Vanguard Strike and Leading the Attack, in Devoted Spirit and White Raven). If you want this discipline to be more specialized in movement than Desert Wind is, you can add more high-end movement abilities.
    I'll change that then. I tried looking at other discipilines but that one appears to have slipped by.

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Got_This_Name View Post
    Wind's Betrayal needs a cap on its damage.
    Noted

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Got_This_Name View Post
    Falling Leaf Strike seems overpowered; it is a second level maneuver able to do 6d6 damage routinely, and, should a player get that maneuver, they will arrange to fall from 60' onto their enemies every time you fight outdoors. Nonetheless, on comparison to Fire Riposte (2nd level counter, 4d6 fire damage, supernatural) it seems balanced, but, on comparison to all of the other extraordinary, untyped damage 2nd-level maneuvers, we have Mountain Hammer (+2d6, ignore DR and hardness), Claw at the Moon (+2d6 with a jump check), and Tactical Strike (+2d6 and free 5' steps for allies), it seems overpowered. Perhaps drop the cap to 4d6, and merely reduce effective fall distance by 60'?
    The automaticly ignoring all fall damage could be changed. Would keeping the cap at 6d6 but making it only ignore 40 feet, so that if you want to deal more damage you have to take it yourself, balance it or is it too easy to tumble? I'll change it so that it's the same type as whatever weapon you're using but I think all 'untyped' manoeuvres are supposed to work that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Got_This_Name View Post
    Also, don't let anyone jump off a cliff (let's say 50'), move, and initiate this strike, then take no falling damage because they hit, or take falling damage because they missed; you could end up in weird quantum situations where them missing on that attack causes the fall to have killed them, or, even weirder, where a Crusader does this, misses, retroactively took the falling damage, dumps it into their delayed damage pool, and the Furious Counterstrike bumps them up to hitting.
    Didn't think of that. I'm thinking of changing it to a readied action that happens the moment you hit the ground (or your opponent).

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Got_This_Name View Post
    Those are just the first ones; I'd go over each maneuver, and compare it to all existing maneuvers of the same level and similar effect, and nerf accordingly. I would then compare the discipline as a whole to the other disciplines, and make sure that it doesn't infringe on what any other discipline does, too much: Desert Wind has supernatural attacks, movement, and area attacks; Devoted Spirit protects your allies, heals, and uses alignment; Diamond Mind destroys single targets, protects you (including some movement), and deals with the mental fight; Iron Heart hits multiple enemies, fights recklessly, and lives on force of will; Setting Sun defends, disables your enemies' strength, and throws; Shadow Hand does stealth, ability damage, teleportation, and that stuff; Stone Dragon has and ignores damage reduction, uses size-based brute force, and has all of the stuff to mess with size; Tiger Claw does two-weapon fighting, jumping, and a whole lot of barbaric/animalistic stuff; White Raven leads.

    Naturally there is overlap. Desert Wind and Shadow Hand both have teleportation; Diamond Mind and Iron Heart both have ridiculous single-combat attacks (as does Stone Dragon); Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw both have boosts to give you extra movement when you need it, and White Raven can give everyone else extra movement; Devoted Spirit and White Raven have the same maneuver by two different names; Devoted Spirit and Stone Dragon can both grant you damage reduction. Nonetheless, each discipline should have one (or a few) things that it does really, really well, and the other disciplines shouldn't be as good as that one at it. This extends back to the core disciplines; a new discipline shouldn't be better than a core discipline at the core's strength. This must be managed, though, within a context of balanced maneuvers.
    Of course there's overlap. ToB is the Book of Nine Swords and doesn't need new disciplines at all. It just happens that there wasn't a sonic discipline or a purely air based one (although Tiger Claw and Desert Wind come close) but I really just made this as a thought excersise. One reason I made this was that I hated the flavour of Desert Wind and I already had a non-Tomb of Battle variant of this.
    Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2007-04-14 at 03:26 PM.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Well, no: you can get up to eight nine attacks with Rapid Wind's Strike with the cunning use of TWF and haste.

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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    Well, no: you can get up to eight nine attacks with Rapid Wind's Strike with the cunning use of TWF and haste.
    Oh.

    Yeah.

    I hadn't even thought about two-weapon fighting.

    I'd dissallow two-weapon fighting since two-handers won't be getting a benifit to balance it out. Flurry of Blows fits in with the flavour to some degree though. I'm not sure how balanced it would be to allow up to 9 odd attacks.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    Oh.

    Yeah.

    I hadn't even thought about two-weapon fighting.

    I'd dissallow two-weapon fighting since two-handers won't be getting a benifit to balance it out. Flurry of Blows fits in with the flavour to some degree though. I'm not sure how balanced it would be to allow up to 9 odd attacks.
    Compare to Avalanche of Blades and similar.

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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    I'm not saying that overlap is bad; the ending bit was a general rumination on discipline design, not directed at you.

    By "untyped damage," I meant that the maneuver didn't assign a type; bonus damage takes the type of the original damage when none is given, so the things like Mountain Hammer follow the original type; I suppose going straight out and calling it "bonus damage" might have been clearer.

    6d6 bonus damage is still more than any 2nd level maneuver grants. Since this requires (rather than causes) special circumstances, it can do more than other maneuvers; maybe 4d6 or so. 6d6 would be good if you kicked it up a level, possibly even more if you keep the backlash. Of course, Battle Leader's Charge is +10, equivalent to a straight 3d6, but it doesn't cause any special effects other than being able to charge without AoOs. 3rd level has 6d6 ranged touch attacks and +4d6 melee; 6d6+weapon damage, but backlash seems balanced there.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    I might push it up a level then. Really it comes down to how often you can get 60 ft. in the air. Using this discipline alone it needs a 5th level Manoeuvre to get up there. Using Shadowhand you'd also need a 5th level Manoeuvre, as with Desert Wind, but that would only help if a flying creature shot a bow at you. Using terrain then it's very special circumstances and you'd usually need to have surprise. Using the jump skill you'd need 60 ft. movement speed, the now defunct Leap of the Clouds ability and the ability to pass a DC 580 check (or 80 ft. move speed and a DC 240 check).

    So it comes down to how many conveniant ramps your DM leaves lying around and whether or not you have special help from a wizard or magic items. If a Wizard helps you I'd be happy to give the extra 2d6 due to good teamwork.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
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    You could always just tell word to add it to the dictionary. Right click on the underlined word, select add or add to dictionary or similar.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Hmm...
    With going airborne such an integral part of so many strikes, maybe there should be a maneuver that lets you make a Listen check in place of a jump, or provide a bonus?
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Quote Originally Posted by ExHunterEmerald View Post
    Hmm...
    With going airborne such an integral part of so many strikes, maybe there should be a maneuver that lets you make a Listen check in place of a jump, or provide a bonus?
    Hmm... possibly. I'm missing a few boosts (only 2 so far) but there's enough manoeuvres already. I'll try and have another look at this tommorrow.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Just as a note, jumping doesn't actually cap at eight feet. It's just difficult for most characters to get better than a 32 on their jump check. However, even a non-monk who really wants to can beat it, and jump ten, twelve feet up.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    I can see a great synergy between Act as the Wind and Time Stands Still.

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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Quote Originally Posted by Manir View Post
    I can see a great synergy between Act as the Wind and Time Stands Still.
    Yes. The reason why I limited it was to stop you doing that so often but I didn't want to rule it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Mann View Post
    Just as a note, jumping doesn't actually cap at eight feet. It's just difficult for most characters to get better than a 32 on their jump check. However, even a non-monk who really wants to can beat it, and jump ten, twelve feet up.
    Yes. Ten-twelve feet up. That really doesn't help if you want to abuse a manoeuvre by jumping 60 ft. in the air.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    High Jump: A high jump is a vertical leap made to reach a ledge high above or to grasp something overhead. The DC is equal to 4 times the distance to be cleared.
    Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2007-04-17 at 07:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    A thri-kreen with this style would rule all. +30 racial bonus to Jump.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Lurker View Post
    A thri-kreen with this style would rule all. +30 racial bonus to Jump.
    Tiger Claw is more jump based (as well as two-weapon based which is a further + for Thri-keen). Even a +30 bonus doesn't let you been DC 100 checks any time soon.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    any chance of the weapon called Gentle Breeze, like the other "official" disciplines?
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Quote Originally Posted by knightsaline View Post
    any chance of the weapon called Gentle Breeze, like the other "official" disciplines?
    I thought about it. Then I realised how much I hate the legacy weapon rules.
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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    IMHO, the biggest problem with this discipline is that it focuses a substantial number of its maneuvers on being in the air, while offering no means of achieving this itself until level 15. So, it ends up being reliant on other disciplines and Magic Items for it to achieve its full potential.

    Also, I must question having Listen as a favoured skill. From what I see of the maneuvers, they compose largely of cutting people to shreds after jumping onto their heads (albeit in a graceful way). Maybe you could change the flavour of this discipline to something more unique and applicable, such as a discipline being wholly focused on speed, or imitating the behavior of flower petals in the breeze. You could then change the favoured skill to something like Tumble or Bluff. This is only my opinion, which doesn't count for much, so feel free to disregard it.

    If you wish to keep the fluff you have written, I advise you to remove the direct damage and add in more things that fit the theme. For example, you could make a boost that grants a quick bonus on jump checks, or a stance that allows you to jump as though you had a running start, even if you didn't.

    I like what i see so far, very nice work. The maneuvers have been carefully thought out and planned to fit in with the theme. However, don't be afraid of stepping on other's toes! Martial arts IRL have a lot of things in common for each other. For example, many of the kata from Aikido and Judo are extremely similiar, if not the same. Again, this is just my personal view, with absolutley no backing behind it whatsover.

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    Default Re: Gentle Breeze Discipline [ToB]

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemician View Post
    IMHO, the biggest problem with this discipline is that it focuses a substantial number of its maneuvers on being in the air, while offering no means of achieving this itself until level 15. So, it ends up being reliant on other disciplines and Magic Items for it to achieve its full potential.
    You can get Run on the Wind at 7th level which will help you get into the air. Only Falling Rain Strike, Falling Leaf Strike and Plummeting Acorn Strike actually need you to be in the air. Most of the Manoeuvres are actually anti-air. I think teamwork and relying on other disciplines is a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemician View Post
    Also, I must question having Listen as a favoured skill. From what I see of the maneuvers, they compose largely of cutting people to shreds after jumping onto their heads (albeit in a graceful way). Maybe you could change the flavour of this discipline to something more unique and applicable, such as a discipline being wholly focused on speed, or imitating the behavior of flower petals in the breeze. You could then change the favoured skill to something like Tumble or Bluff. This is only my opinion, which doesn't count for much, so feel free to disregard it.
    Again, three manoeuvres consist of falling on people. Not jumping, falling. Tiger Claw is about jumping. Tumble is already Desert Wind's key skill and bluff makes little sense (though I could imagine a discipline based around bluff would be very interesting). The reason why Listen is the key skill is that the discipline is about paying attention to the wind. Most of the manoeuvres that involve the key skill are counters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemician View Post
    If you wish to keep the fluff you have written, I advise you to remove the direct damage and add in more things that fit the theme. For example, you could make a boost that grants a quick bonus on jump checks, or a stance that allows you to jump as though you had a running start, even if you didn't.
    The direct damage manoeuvres are what started this whole thing off. I guess I could abandon the roots but then I'd just create another discipline that would include them, which would be unneccesary. All disciplines need strikes anyway. The theme was always about the air rather than jumping and I've already demonstrated that vertical jumping to the heights required to take advantage of the manoeuvers is impossible without insane bonuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemician View Post
    I like what i see so far, very nice work. The maneuvers have been carefully thought out and planned to fit in with the theme. However, don't be afraid of stepping on other's toes! Martial arts IRL have a lot of things in common for each other. For example, many of the kata from Aikido and Judo are extremely similiar, if not the same. Again, this is just my personal view, with absolutley no backing behind it whatsover.
    Aikido shares some moves with Judo because Aikido involves Jujutsu. In Book of Nine Swords terms, Judo is Setting Sun while Aikido would be the whole Swordsage. I don't see the neccesity of only choosing one discipline.

    This Discipline's real theme is anti-manouvrebility. It has ranged and charge strikes to take out people who like keeping out of your reach. It has a manoeuvre that does extra damage to enemies that move. It has moves that hurt people who are flying.
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