Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2

[Ssalarn]

I'm back(ish)! Back in the states anyways. A feat allowing Gurus to treat additional weapons as philosophy weapons will be in the compiled Supplemental release. It's called Martial Union, requires you to have Weapon Focus in the weapon you want to focus your Philosophy through, and adds 1/2 the Essence invested in your Gentle Touch as an untyped bonus to your to-hit with Philosophy weapons.

Looks like we missed including the range for the ray option of Luminosity; it should be 60 feet. I'll see that that gets addressed when we run the compilation updates.

[Kaidinah]

Welcome back(ish)! Glad to have you back(ish).

Sounds like a pretty good feat. I probably wouldn't build a Guru without it, considering how much I like smacking dudes around.

[Taveena]

WHEEE EMPTY PYRAMID HYPE

Okay! So. Main thing I'd like to bring up is the slightly odd way Font of Vitality functions, in that it only ends when the DISCIPLE goes above half HP. Which results in the slightly bizarre situation where a Pharaoh has it within his interests to repeatedly stab himself so he can keep healing the party.

[PsyBomb]

That feat makes my Guru sense tingle, looking at about a +4 untyped attack bonus for people who are serious about that kind of thing. I like it, though, helps compensate for mid-BAB and the ability to get different weapons in the Philosophies is a great thing.

[stack]

I like it as well, though requiring weapon focus is a bit annoying. I don't think the feat is so overpowering that it needs a weak pre-req.

[PsyBomb]

I like it as well, though requiring weapon focus is a bit annoying. I don't think the feat is so overpowering that it needs a weak pre-req.

If it didn't require weapon focus, it would be an auto-pick for all Gurus who wanted to do any combat, period, starting from level 3. I'm not a fan of it, but I can see where it's coming from.

[Lord_Gareth]

If it didn't require weapon focus, it would be an auto-pick for all Gurus who wanted to do any combat, period, starting from level 3. I'm not a fan of it, but I can see where it's coming from.

Are we certain that's not a problem with Guru and not the feat concept?

[PsyBomb]

Are we certain that's not a problem with Guru and not the feat concept?

I'm pretty certain of it. The feat is worth the +1 on any Philosophy weapon from level 3 on, and and ends with +3 (or 4 if you, like many combat-oriented Gurus should, take Expanded Capacity on your Gentle Touch). This beats a flat +1 by a mile and a half, before counting the ability to tack exotic weapons onto your main fighting style. Put it this way, I voluntarily give up 4 AC on blitz builds for a +2 (Reckless Assault). It would be a lot like if Weapon Group Adaptation also gave you a +1/5 IL to attack with discipline weapons, people would take it regardless of if they needed to actually adapt a weapon group.

The feat tax isn't ideal, but something to that effect is needed on this feat concept.

EDIT: The flip side of this is that it turns true Exotic additions into a 3-feat sink (Proficiency, Focus, then Adaptation) to add. Tough position.

[Ssalarn]

Are we certain that's not a problem with Guru and not the feat concept?

It's not a "have to have to function" thing, it's a "so good you'd always take it at that price" thing. The Weapon Focus tax at least has some benefit, and gates the ability to the appropriate access point. It's also at that right cost where it's worth getting if you want to go combat brute, but not so good that every single build is going to take it.

[Kaidinah]

If there were a melee combat focused Guru archetype later on, I could see that feat being part of it, but I don't feel that it should have been a core Guru class feature.

[Vhaidara]

I would say that it sounds comparable to Grasp of Darkness for Harbingers or Elements as One for a mixed element Mystic. Namely, you CAN work without this, but why would you, when having it is so much better?

Or, for another comparison, Natural Spell for 3.5 druids. The most obvious example of "Are you good without this? Yes. Are you nigh infinitely better with this? Obviously."

[PsyBomb]

I would say that it sounds comparable to Grasp of Darkness for Harbingers or Elements as One for a mixed element Mystic. Namely, you CAN work without this, but why would you, when having it is so much better?

Or, for another comparison, Natural Spell for 3.5 druids. The most obvious example of "Are you good without this? Yes. Are you nigh infinitely better with this? Obviously."

Not QUITE at "class feature that replaces a feat" level, but a natural choice. It'll be high-priority for people wanting to use racial proficiencies (an Elf Vayist, for example) and for anyone aiming for heavy me lee regardless.

[Lord_Gareth]

Figured I'd post this here, solely in my capacity as a playtester and not as a member of Dreamscarred Press, as an idea:

What about a feat (or veil) that lets mind-affecting veils hit creatures normally immune to mind-affecting? Such creatures retain a bonus vs. the effects (investing essence reduces this bonus?) and mindless creatures remain immune.

[Kaidinah]

Figured I'd post this here, solely in my capacity as a playtester and not as a member of Dreamscarred Press, as an idea:

What about a feat (or veil) that lets mind-affecting veils hit creatures normally immune to mind-affecting? Such creatures retain a bonus vs. the effects (investing essence reduces this bonus?) and mindless creatures remain immune.

There is a certain joy experienced when you cause fear in the undead. I think it could make a cool veil. The chakra bind could allow you to affect mindless creatures too, after a certain level of investment.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Somewhat OT, but it's only been up here, Ssalarn, when we gonna see Psitech / Shadewalker playtests? I have plans that involve playtesting and putting my players through hell.

[Ssalarn]

Somewhat OT, but it's only been up here, Ssalarn, when we gonna see Psitech / Shadewalker playtests? I have plans that involve playtesting and putting my players through hell.

I could have Shadewalker up this week if Andreas gives me the green light. I need about a dedicated week where I'm not working on anything other than Psitech to get it ready though; so that could be a little longer.

[Deadkitten]

Since we are talking about a possible feat for the guru I will re-post to see if there is any opinion on it....

So would it be terribly broken on unbalanced for there to be a feat or something that allowed a veil-weaving class such as the Guru or Daevic to have a 1/day or so use of the Vizier's Veil-shifting?

My main worry is a class such as the Daevic,which gets so few veils per day while having to shape specific ones as well, could really benefit from such a feat if they were thrown into a situation in which they were not fully prepared for.

[Ssalarn]

Since we are talking about a possible feat for the guru I will re-post to see if there is any opinion on it....

So would it be terribly broken on unbalanced for there to be a feat or something that allowed a veil-weaving class such as the Guru or Daevic to have a 1/day or so use of the Vizier's Veil-shifting?

My main worry is a class such as the Daevic,which gets so few veils per day while having to shape specific ones as well, could really benefit from such a feat if they were thrown into a situation in which they were not fully prepared for.

I've been looking into it. My biggest concern is that even once a day, that can make a huge impact in combat, so I've been doing some scenario testing and seeing what the best way to maybe do something like that would be. I don't want it to be so prereq intensive that no one takes it, but I also don't want it being on the "every veilweaver who's not a Vizier will always take this" list.

[soulsabre345]

I have a couple questions about the Crusader's Shield veil. First though, I do love the veil and the options it enables, but it doesn't say what happens when the shield breaks from damage, and if you use it in a space too small for it. So, my questions are;

1. If the shield is destroyed, does the extra damage from that attack go anywhere? (shield has 20 hp, gets hit for 40, does the extra 20 damage hit the user?)
2. If the shield is blocking off a passage, but is destroyed by a burst effect, does the attack proceed past the user or is it halted by the shield? What about a spread effect?
3. If using the shield in a area too small for it (5' high and wide passageway, and you use the basic version which covers a 10' square), does it just fill the area as much as it can, or does it need to be created in a area large enough for it?
4. If there are two veilweavers using the shield, what happens if the shields intersect? (such as two veilweavers side by side and placing it at a 45 degree angle to their sides, making it cross in a x in front and between them)

[Deadkitten]

I've been looking into it. My biggest concern is that even once a day, that can make a huge impact in combat, so I've been doing some scenario testing and seeing what the best way to maybe do something like that would be. I don't want it to be so prereq intensive that no one takes it, but I also don't want it being on the "every veilweaver who's not a Vizier will always take this" list.

Mayhaps have the feat take like 1-10 minutes to reshape a veil?
Kinda like the Binder feat from tome of magic.

[PsyBomb]

Figured I'd post this here, solely in my capacity as a playtester and not as a member of Dreamscarred Press, as an idea:

What about a feat (or veil) that lets mind-affecting veils hit creatures normally immune to mind-affecting? Such creatures retain a bonus vs. the effects (investing essence reduces this bonus?) and mindless creatures remain immune.

I'd love to see that effect on a Veil or Feat. There are a few of them that could really use the help, notably all the Pattern and Fear-Based ones (opens up a ton of BFC options for everyone, especially Swarm Master Dreads).

Mayhaps have the feat take like 1-10 minutes to reshape a veil?
Kinda like the Binder feat from tome of magic.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. If it took a minute of concentration, it would be unusable in combat but enough to be able to shift a needed resource otherwise.

[Ssalarn]

Mayhaps have the feat take like 1-10 minutes to reshape a veil?
Kinda like the Binder feat from tome of magic.

I could see that working. Make it more of an out of combat thing, but still useful if you, say, shape Circlet of Brass for what you think is an adventure into the icy peaks but turns out to be a delve into the heart of an active volcano full of salamanders and their red dragon overlord.

[Deadkitten]

I could see that working. Make it more of an out of combat thing, but still useful if you, say, shape Circlet of Brass for what you think is an adventure into the icy peaks but turns out to be a delve into the heart of an active volcano full of salamanders and their red dragon overlord.

another option would be that if you were fine with it possibly being able to be used in combat, that using the feat would do some constitution damage or something similar.

kinda like trying to reshape a veil that way damages your life energy or something like that.
you could maybe do some unhealable essence burn too.

[Deadkitten]

From the Cincture of the Dragon:

Chakra Bind (Belt): [D16] Binding this potent defensive veil to your Belt chakra causes the scales to grow in size and whirl around you, intercepting even some magical attacks. As a standard action you can activate a stunning barrier ACG effect as an at-will spell-like ability. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to your primary veilweaving modifier plus the number of points of essence invested in this ability.

Was this maybe supposed to be the greater version of this spell?
I was wondering because the belt bind does not come online until 13th level.

Here are the two spells for quick reference just cause I feel like it.

Stunning Barrier
Source Advanced Class Guide pg. 194 (Amazon)
School abjuration; Level arcanist 1, cleric/oracle 1, inquisitor 1, paladin 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, warpriest 1
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Effect
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 round/level or until discharged
Saving Throw none and Will negates (see text); Spell Resistance no and yes (see text)
Description
You are closely surrounded by a barely visible magical field. The field provides a +1 deflection bonus to AC and a +1 resistance bonus on saves. Any creature that strikes you with a melee attack is stunned for 1 round (Will negates). Once the field has stunned an opponent, the spell is discharged.

Stunning Barrier, Greater
Source Advanced Class Guide pg. 195 (Amazon)
School abjuration; Level arcanist 3, cleric/oracle 3, inquisitor 3, paladin 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, warpriest 3
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Effect
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 round/level or until discharged
Saving Throw none and Will negates (see text); Spell Resistance no and yes (see text)
Description
This spell functions as stunning barrier, except as noted above, and it provides a +2 bonus to AC and on saving throws. It is not discharged until it has stunned a number of creatures equal to your caster level.

Honestly, no matter what you do the duration is going to be less than the original spells.
Getting the 1st level version of Stunning barrier at 13th level seems kinda weak considering you have to spend a standard action to maybe negate a single attack. You could make it a swift action and it would be tolerable and probably balanced since it keeps you from shifting essence that turn.

Or if you meant it to be the 3rd level version that would be neat as well, but it should stay a standard for obvious reasons.

[NomGarret]

I could see that working. Make it more of an out of combat thing, but still useful if you, say, shape Circlet of Brass for what you think is an adventure into the icy peaks but turns out to be a delve into the heart of an active volcano full of salamanders and their red dragon overlord.

Yeah. This is way closer to what happened to my Vizier in last week's game than I'm comfortable with. I had Circlet of Brass shaped. We were chasing BBEG through his lair but had to cross the pit of lava. And I was all out of veil shifting.

[PsyBomb]

Anyone else looking at Pathfinder Unchained and looking at applications among these classes? Wrath (Justice) gets a big boost from Stamina system if it's allowed, rerolling bad dice on Vital Strike can be clutch.

[Ssalarn]

Anyone else looking at Pathfinder Unchained and looking at applications among these classes? Wrath (Justice) gets a big boost from Stamina system if it's allowed, rerolling bad dice on Vital Strike can be clutch.

Whoo, yeah, that could be a big freaking deal.

I'm trying to figure out how some of the new skill mastery stuff fits in.

[PsyBomb]

Skill mastery, nothing really jumped out at me. Even with the bonuses the Veils give, you still have to unlock it in the first place and the effects aren't really game-breaking.

[Taveena]

Sorry for asking for the clarification here - but are creatures granted through Veils valid targets for Share Veil?
Also, is it intended that you can set up a chain of undead commanded with Dark Lord's Ring of Essence Binding with the Plague Zombie or Cairn Wight?

[Ssalarn]

Sorry for asking for the clarification here - but are creatures granted through Veils valid targets for Share Veil?

Yes.

Also, is it intended that you can set up a chain of undead commanded with Dark Lord's Ring of Essence Binding with the Plague Zombie or Cairn Wight?

No. There will be an update to the core doc reflecting a change that was actually announced some time ago but for some reason got lost in layout:
Wights created by the veil cannot create spawn. Also of note, you wouldn't have any control over plague zombies created by the disease.