Erfworld 45 (Page 41)

[SteveMB]

I agree. Although i would like to say that for those of you who are sure they kissed in panel five...why? I personaly want them to have kissed cuz it makes things less complicated by adding something to define their relationship (and I just want them to kiss) but i realize that it could be something else.

The position of their feet makes it clear that they are standing face to face, very close together. A kiss is the most straightforward interpretation. (On a meta level, the fact that they're mostly hidden behind the dwagon implies that Rob and Jamie are throwing out a hint of something that they want to leave at least somewhat ambiguous, which is the way they've been treating the sexual subtext of Wanda and Jillian's relationship.)

[happyturtle]

I agree. Although i would like to say that for those of you who are sure they kissed in panel five...why? I personaly want them to have kissed cuz it makes things less complicated by adding something to define their relationship (and I just want them to kiss) but i realize that it could be something else.

Reasons for Wanda to stand so close, in order of likelihood:

1. Kiss
2. Whisper in her ear (perhaps a suggestion plant)
3. Cast a spell (though no sparklies were left)
4. Hug (ha!)
5. Insert the hollow tooth filled with poison gas

[innovan]

Yeah; she was flying back from the Warchalking battlefield, where she'd gone to pick up and uncroak the late Manpower the Temporary

My bad. Absolutely right. The shot of Gobwin Knob in frame 7 of p2 does establish she was in the capital at the time. Darn.

I do find it interesting that there's more board interest of the plot points mimed in the illustrations than the spoken one in the text.

[SteveMB]

Reasons for Wanda to stand so close, in order of likelihood:

1. Kiss
2. Whisper in her ear (perhaps a suggestion plant)

Plenty of time for both, given that they presumably landed out of sight of Webinar's group during Stanley's turn. (For that matter, given how sexuality is entangled with psychology in general and this situation in particular, the former might be an associated trigger for the latter.)

3. Cast a spell (though no sparklies were left)
4. Hug (ha!)

A bit of a reach, I agree.

5. Insert the hollow tooth filled with poison gas

They're actually a bit too close together to get proper finger positioning for that.

[Gez]

It does absolutely nothing to advance the idea that Parson is somehow the last defense against Ansom.

The only one who ever said that was Wanda, and you know how much you can trust her. Plus, she even said Stanley was making her search too difficult.

Now admittedly, there is probably something that will go wrong that Parson will have to fix in his own inimitable ways,

And what would be Parson's inimitable way, exactly? It's not like we've seen him doing anything before he was sent to Erfworld, except boasting about his games and lamenting about his life.

but right about now, if I were Stanley, I would be having a long talk with Wanda about exactly WHY we spent 350,000 schmuckers if she had even an inkling that something like this could happen.

It is strongly implied that Stanley already had several such talks, starting from right after Parson appeared.

[benthehater]

I'm beginning to think that Wanda is this story's actual antagonist. We still don't have her motivation, she doesn't explain anything to anybody, and is kind of willing to stoop to a variety of levels to get what she wants, which is something we're still not quite sure of precisely. She's competant, pretty, fascinating, and powerful, very admirable (if not likeable) features, and that almost spells "too good to be true". The level in which she might be very callously using Jillian kind of suggests there's no call for her not to use anybody, up to and including Stanley and Ansom and Parson, to get whatever she wants (whatever that actually might be).

[Cyclone231]

Man you guys... This proves they're lesbians?

What? If anything, this is the precise OPPOSITE of an indication of lesbian sex. Since Wanda explicitly states that she has some sort of subtle mind control, that makes the conversation on page 39 much more explicable without resorting to lesbian sex.

[Caledonian]

We have to consider the possibility that Jillian's been filled with misinformation by Wanda, too. Perhaps that's the cover she'll use for her 'escape': "Ansom, I've studied their disposition of forces, and there are some things you need to know."

[Minchandre]

Man you guys... This proves they're lesbians?

What? If anything, this is the precise OPPOSITE of an indication of lesbian sex. Since Wanda explicitly states that she has some sort of subtle mind control, that makes the conversation on page 39 much more explicable without resorting to lesbian sex.

There are a lot of things that can be sexual in nature, depending on context; not all of them would classically be considered sex (even considering all the things that are normally considered sex when the normal tab A into slot B approach is impractical).

[whmice]

wanda had such amazing outfits, whats with the tie? makes her look...er... less cool

[happyturtle]

There are a lot of things that can be sexual in nature, depending on context; not all of them would classically be considered sex (even considering all the things that are normally considered sex when the normal tab A into slot B approach is impractical).

Very true. Sexual intercourse is linear, with a specific goal. But erotic interaction between two people doesn't require nudity, or orgasm, or even touching. And that non-classical sex can be just as much fun as the classical variety.

[Scientivore]

wanda had such amazing outfits, whats with the tie? makes her look...er... less cool

I'll agree with the "less cool" if I can re-define it as "totally HOT". Must be a matter of taste.

[Erk]

Yeah, my first thought was "Woah Wanda's outfit is awesome".

[the_tick_rules]

wow, wanda's good. is it me or is the scences with her and Jillian almost designed to be suggestive?

[Space-Is-Curved]

Gotta love that dwagon in panel 5.

[rosebud]

I don't get it. [...] Parson send out the dragons to flame the crap-bats in one burst, all the antagonists are killed, and the rest of the army goes home with the story unresolved? At best, this would be half-baked and unsatisfying.

Even if it were that trivial, there's plenty more towns and two more Arkentools. And Ansom need not be the head warlord, so there are others that can lead. The world is about more than one battle.

Yes, its clear that Wanda is manipulating both Parson and the Tool in this comic.

Nice analysis. (It would be fun to read a klog(s) on Parson's (changing) views of Tool and Wanda.)

By the way, keep in mind that Wanda summoned Parson, so his failure is still her failure.

What I can't figure out yet is if Parson should be watching his back, or if Wanda is safely on his side for now.

The question is what binds Wanda to Tool. Parson is bound to Tool by the summoning spell.

[SteveMB]

The question is what binds Wanda to Tool. Parson is bound to Tool by the summoning spell.

Way back when we first met Wanda and Stanley, after she rejected his instruction to follow the usual "pick the most handsome and dashing one left and make him a Warlord" procedure, Stanley demanded to know if she was refusing an order. Her response was, "I'm allowed. I'm convinced it will lead to your destruction." (emphasis added)

This seems to imply that she is normally bound by his orders, but has a loophole if a given an order that will clearly lead to his ruin. However, it's unclear whether this is a limitation enforced by magic or by the physical laws of Erfworld on the one hand, or simply a legal/political rule on the other hand (though in the later case, it's hard to see why Stanley, who seems to be an absolute dictator, doesn't simply set it aside if it's inconvenient).

[Adrien]

Way back when we first met Wanda and Stanley, after she rejected his instruction to follow the usual "pick the most handsome and dashing one left and make him a Warlord" procedure, Stanley demanded to know if she was refusing an order. Her response was, "I'm allowed. I'm convinced it will lead to your destruction." (emphasis added)

This seems to imply that she is normally bound by his orders, but has a loophole if a given an order that will clearly lead to his ruin. However, it's unclear whether this is a limitation enforced by magic or by the physical laws of Erfworld on the one hand, or simply a legal/political rule on the other hand (though in the later case, it's hard to see why Stanley, who seems to be an absolute dictator, doesn't simply set it aside if it's inconvenient).

Presumably there are mechanics that allow defection, however; we know it is possible for a troop to (one way or another) work his way up the ranks, potentially even becoming an overlord.

Of course no one would be more familiar with these mechanics than Stanley. I believe it would be a mistake to underestimate the little man with the pun I cannot believe I only just got in this regard.

[innovan]

I'm beginning to think that Wanda is this story's actual antagonist. We still don't have her motivation

Wanda's motivation is to support and protect her awful family of parasitic loaf-abouts with which she has an overachiever/dependancy relationship with.

The "lost" croatan tribe is a bunch of awful relatives, the kind that move into your house and never leave. They sleep on your couch, drink all your beer, complain all day and never get a job. When you do get them a job, they quickly blow it and end back up on your couch again.

It's why she's so good at manipulation --it runs in her family and she's been subjected to it since birth. The difference being they all spin their Machiavelli schemes on eachother, while she's so low skilled in comparison she's been forced to work outside the family.

It's also why she still has her rebellious teen goth look still going on: She wants a normal, loving, supportive family like everyone else. She desperately needs her parents' approval. But they never do approve, she never is good enough, and they always reset the bar just a few inches higher than she reached --after they've seen how high she went. So she's angry at them because they've always withheld their love, and their approval is always just beyond her what she's achieved.

And finally it's why she has the sex life of a cloistered nun despite the fashionable clothes: She's always secretly being watched by her family and her virginity protected for someone so perfect they don't exist (and if they did, they certainly wouldn't marry into such a screwed up family). Just going out on a date with Wanda to the chocolate shop involves passing so many levels of family bureaucracy that it would make dating a Medici princess easy in comparison.

[Fineous Orlon]

Two interesting posts:

I'm beginning to think that Wanda is this story's actual antagonist. ... The level in which she might be very callously using Jillian kind of suggests there's no call for her not to use anybody, up to and including Stanley and Ansom and Parson, to get whatever she wants (whatever that actually might be).

By the way, keep in mind that Wanda summoned Parson, so his failure is still her failure.

The question is what binds Wanda to Tool. Parson is bound to Tool by the summoning spell.

Wanda did not only summon Parson, she brought the existence of the spell up and suggested buying it to Stanley.

Parson, a competent warlord perhaps [well, the need for any competent warlord, or 'perfect' warlord, she cast it remember...], as a buffer between her and her boss's incompetence, makes a lot of sense, if she is the master manipulatress.

I wonder if some of her definition [or what aspects of her definition] of perfect got into the spell as well? Of course, she was [or seemed] upset that she would have to cast the spell. Hmmm.

Even if it were that trivial, there's plenty more towns and two more Arkentools. And Ansom need not be the head warlord, so there are others that can lead. The world is about more than one battle.

The scenario Parson created was likely about one battle, at least that's how he described it to his friends, IIRC. I'm going with that, and the comic-title, for now. The writers have the talent to do more, certainly.

EDIT: So I checked the comic-title. It's "Erfworld, Part 1, The Battle for Gobwin Knob."

I forgot about the "part 1" bit.

So, yeah, the world could definitely be about more than one battle.

[tomaO2]

I remain convinced that Dragons are the most powerful standard unit in the game thus revealed. The most probable reason that the Blue was killed (and I'm shocked no one has proposed this) is Jillian's sword. Recall that when Jillian was captured she dropped TWO magic items and while it was never stated specifically, the sword is the most likely other item.

It probably gives a big offensive bonus or allows an instant kill ONCE per fight or something. This would explain why she was able to kill the dragon but also got owned by the red.

I will also add my voice to the calls on the "plan" Wanda proposed. If it was that simple it should have been done a long time ago, BEFORE Parson was sommoned. With the information I have I consider it poor writing if this is really so easy. There is just no good reason for it not to have happened by now as things stand.

I expect that this concern will be addressed later on in Elfworld though, it's just too big a hole to ignore, in my view.

Also, I continue to mock all you people that think that Jillian and Wanda "love" each other.

They.
Are.
Enemies.

This has no love. Jillian has been brainwashed and Wanda is exploiting that.

Case closed. The eroticism, the friendly patter, even the implied sexual relations... all noise. If Jillian was of her right mind she would try and kill Wanda and Wanda will kill Jillian as soon as her usefullness ends.

[Erk]

"If it was that simple it should have been done a long time ago, BEFORE Parson was sommoned."
Presumably if Wanda had actually completed binding Jillian to her will before parson was summoned, they very well might have carried out this plan. But Parson still has to command the dwagons well enough to wipe out Ansom's entire aerial force, which is not trivial... even if this is a success, they still need a skilled warlord, not some randomly promoted prettyboy.

[tomaO2]

If that is so Erk, it will have eventually to be stated in the comic, not assumed

This is an important question and it demands to be addressed at some point and frankly it should be addressed soon. If for no other reason then because there is no way Parson would not be asking it to himself.

[Fineous Orlon]

I remain convinced that Dragons are the most powerful standard unit in the game thus revealed. The most probable reason that the Blue was killed (and I'm shocked no one has proposed this) is Jillian's sword. Recall that when Jillian was captured she dropped TWO magic items and while it was never stated specifically, the sword is the most likely other item.

We see a pretty big sword leaning against the wall in Parson's Klog 1, I wonder if that is Jillian's, or just a Parson-sized sword?

Jillian seems to have her sword [back?] when she has mounted the [sourmander?] in 41.

[SteveMB]

We see a pretty big sword leaning against the wall in Parson's Klog 1, I wonder if that is Jillian's, or just a Parson-sized sword?

Jillian seems to have her sword [back?] when she has mounted the [sourmander?] in 41.

This isn't the first time Jillian has been captured. Considering that Stanley is embarrassed that Ansom's side recovered her lost stuff, presumably Stanley's people were expected to recover them (and did, on previous occasions).

[Fineous Orlon]

This isn't the first time Jillian has been captured. Considering that Stanley is embarrassed that Ansom's side recovered her lost stuff, presumably Stanley's people were expected to recover them (and did, on previous occasions).

Yep, sorry, bottom of 34 shows Ansom's guys holding the sword. Sorry.

Parson-sized sword in the Klog # 1, I guess, or "really big sword in amongst all the other trophies in his room."

[Erk]

If that is so Erk, it will have eventually to be stated in the comic, not assumed

This is an important question and it demands to be addressed at some point and frankly it should be addressed soon. If for no other reason then because there is no way Parson would not be asking it to himself.

Regarding Parson's thoughts, in 26:1 Stanley is finishing up describing the situation with Jillian to Parson. We can't say for sure how much exactly he knows and said to Parson, but Parson certainly knows that Jill has been captured and interrogated by Wanda several times. It's 2+2 that Wanda has been working on this control for that time... it would make Parson look kind of dumb to be asking it again.

Moreover, it HAS been stated in the comic that Wanda's control over Jillian is something that didn't exist before now. If Wanda already had control over Jillian to this degree in the past, Jillian would not have suggested they escape together. The Jillian we see in 40 is not the Jillian that was hanging on the wall in 30. I think it is good that things like that aren't spelled out in baby words for us. It's all there and quite simple to pick up by reading the comic in one sitting.

[Scientivore]

I remain convinced that Dragons are the most powerful standard unit in the game thus revealed. The most probable reason that the Blue was killed (and I'm shocked no one has proposed this) is Jillian's sword. Recall that when Jillian was captured she dropped TWO magic items and while it was never stated specifically, the sword is the most likely other item.

It probably gives a big offensive bonus or allows an instant kill ONCE per fight or something. This would explain why she was able to kill the dragon but also got owned by the red.

I have no reason to doubt that it's a magic sword; I'm not so sure about it being that powerful. I have another theory that I hadn't bothered to post.

When Jillian went straight for the blue and then got hammered by the red, that felt like an EverQuest reference to me. When I played EQ, melee classes usually got the best solo XP from soloing mobs that conned blue (if they could solo at all) and mobs that con red are a death sentence. The risk wouldn't have been worth it in EQ, but this wasn't EQ; it was just an amusing reference.

Actually...now that I think about it, that's one of the solidest references yet to "geek gets sucked into another world" stories (note the tagline).

[happyturtle]

Regarding Parson's thoughts, [url=http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0026.html]Moreover, it HAS been stated in the comic that Wanda's control over Jillian is something that didn't exist before now. If Wanda already had control over Jillian to this degree in the past, Jillian would not have suggested they escape together. The Jillian we see in 40 is not the Jillian that was hanging on the wall in 30. I think it is good that things like that aren't spelled out in baby words for us. It's all there and quite simple to pick up by reading the comic in one sitting.

Setting an ambush for Ansom and the Arkenpliers doesn't require perfect control over Jillian. They've let her go before (though perhaps by allowing her to escape rather than blatantly flying her out) and the Lookamancers should be able to work out where she'll meet up with Ansom, who is predictable in flying to her rescue. So why wasn't it tried before?

[sethdarkwater]

DOes anyone else notice that the school girl outfit is a refrence to the lesbian band Tatu.