[Golarion] Help me understand Divinity in Golarion

[Kol Korran]

Hey folks. My group has started to play in Golarion in the Wrath of the Righteous Adventure Path (No spoilers) some time ago. We learned the very basic of this world and mostly treated most stuff as a sort of "regular fantasy setting", bit similar to Forgotten Realms.

However, recently two of my players (One who is interested in fantasy religions, and one who seeks to defy the gods, maybe take some of their power) have taken n interest in divinity. And I understood, that I have no idea how it is dealt with in Golarion. I started reading from various wikis (I don't have the books themselves), but I was wondering about the nature of divinity, faith, gods and portfolios in the world.

1) What is the nature of divinity? What differs it from Arcane magic? What's is it's source?

2) What makes a god... a god? What differs a divine being from a mortal, other than power? I know that there re 4 mortals who ascended to godhood through the Starstone trial. Are there any others? what about the non-post-mortal gods, where do they come from?

3) What of the other divine beings? Such as demon lords? How do they differ from the gods? Is there real distinction? Any other non-gods divine beings?

4) What of the planes? What relation do they have to divine entities? I know some demon lords for examples have their own planes, is this the norm? What relations do the planes have between themselves?

5) What relation do divine beings have on Golarion itself? I understood there is a sort of "non intervention" clause, but I also understand that the god Aroden acted fairly freely on Golarion?

6) Any special laws/ guidelines/ pacts the gods follow? Any "game rules/ do-and-don't?"

Thanks for any that can shed light on the matter, or that can direct me to a (free) source that can explain that please. Any other info you can depart is most appreciated.

[Milo v3]

I'd go directly to the source with questions like these. He's generally pretty quick to respond.

[Kol Korran]

Ogirinally by James Jacobs: (On the Paizo site)
1) Divine magic works pretty much the same as arcane magic. ALL magic comes from the same "source" (including the upcoming psychic magic)—what makes it different is how a character accesses the magic. As a general rule, arcane magic is accessed by study and investigation, divine magic is accessed via faith and belief, and psychic magic is generally accessed from within the self. In the end, though, the differences between the three magic types is largely one of flavor; the rules mechanics treat the way those spells resolve all the same.

2) The ability to grant spells, in a nutshel, is what makes a god a god. Furthermore, the power they wield is what differentiates them from mortals. We actually don't have rules to support full-on deities, by design. So you could say, what makes a full-on deity is the fact that they DON'T have rules or stat blocks, and can thus do anything they want. Demigods are the next tier down; they are generally CR 26 to CR 30 foes who can grant spells and can be killed by powerful (or lucky) mortals and who do have stats. Below demigods are the quasi deities—these can be any CR but generally aren't above CR 25; they're things who can grant spells (often via the Mythic Adventures power of Divine Source) but are a shadow of the power of even a demigod. As for where they come from... it varies per god. Inner Sea Gods gives a lot more information on this topic; there's hundreds of deities active in Golarion, and I can't even really start to detail them here.

3) See #2 above. To reiterate... there are three categories of god/goddesses: Deity (the most powerful; this includes the core deities like Desna and Norgorber, but also many others), Demigod (the middle tier; this includes demon lords and the like); and Quasi Deities (this includes creatures of CR 25 or lower who can grant spells, such as Treerazer).

4) Most deities and demigods have realms on the outer planes. As for the nature of the planes themselves... that's also a huge topic. The Great Beyond covers the planes in a lot of detail, but barely scratches the surface.

5) The "non-intervention" clause isn't written down, but nor does it really need to be. The basic gist is that if one god comes down to Golarion to interfere, then the others will too, and suddenly ALL of the gods are directly intervening, and there's no way a mortal realm can survive being an arena where gods bicker and fight. The Gods understand this, and they thus avoid direct intervention on a mortal realm since it's an everyone loses prospect. Demigods, like demon lords, aren't bound by this rule, but then again, they CAN be killed by mortals, so going to Golarion and messing with things in person is a risk.

6) Not really; they're left to you to decide for your game. But again, Inner Sea Gods will help. For the vast majority of cases, they'll let their worshipers proxy for them in in-world conflicts.

In closing, I suspect the best book to start with would be Inner Sea World Guide. It has a lot of information about the world of Golarion, including a sizable chapter about the gods and the outer planes.

Originally by Kol Korran: (In response)
Hmmmm... I've been thinking about the answers to my previous questions about Divinity and so on. I'd like to refine some questions if I may:
1) While divine magic and arcane magic work the same in crunch terms, what makes them different in flavor terms? Why is healing only available to the divine? In most of it's forms? How does divine magic differs in it's ESSENCE from the arcane energies of the world? What is the source of power that the gods tap into and enable to grant their worshipers? There are certain themes in divine magic that feel different than arcane. What is the essence, the core, the source of this difference in Golarion?

I am asking since one of my characters seeks to take the "divine source" path ability, and thus gain access to divine magic, but she seeks to do so without having any connection to the gods themselves. A sort of "Thief/ trickster" of divinity. I am trying to understand divinity and arcane magic in order to try and find an interesting, flavorful and world consistent explanation and experience.

2) For the same reason, I'd like to understand the hierarchy of the divine beings better. Not their respective power levels. While that is helpful, it is a game terms approach, but I seek more of a flavor one. If A mortal, quasi or semi god wishes to ascend to the next "level", what core changes do they need to go through? What essential changes in their definition, being, makeup, spirit, soul or such do they need to go through?

In terms of flavor, and not just power, how do mortals, quasi, semi and full gods differ?

These re fantasy metaphysical questions, and I'm aware they may not be any answers. I'm asking out of interest, intrigue, and to provide my player with such an experience upon their "Ascension".

Thanks in advance.

Originally by James Jacobs:
1) What makes them different is, basically, arcane magic is logic (aka "science") while divine magic is faith (aka "belief"). Arcane magic is Intelligence. Divine magic is Wisdom. Oversimplification, perhaps, but a good starting point.

2) And we simply don't really quantify what it takes for a god to shift power levels. That's an area of the game we want to solely keep to story and flavor. AKA: It can be anything you want it to be.

These answers are unlikely to satisfy, I fear... and while I certainly COULD go into great detail (I do have quite a lot of ideas on how this all works)... now is neither the time nor the place to go into it. I'd rather reveal that information, if we ever do, in a way that it's had the proper time to go through development and editing.

Which is s I expected. I assumed that the BIG questions will be left unanswered, but thought that maybe there will be some canonical concepts that govern Golarion.
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So I'm changing my question a bit: What is YOUR take on Golarion's divine beings? How do you handle them? Any interesting take you have on divine magic, gods and the like?

[Psyren]

I treat them a lot like OotS deities - which is fitting, since they too have a "god-eating Snarl" at the core of the planet that they have to work together to keep locked down.

But yeah, the best answer you're likely to find for "why is healing divine" is "because we say so" - much like it was in 3.5. (Note however that there are plenty of arcane healers, like Bards and Hedge Witches - it just takes a little more specialization from them, just as the divine classes have to specialize a bit in order to blast.)