OOTS #980 - The Discussion Thread

[Gareth235]

Is there some kind of rule in the comic that magical creatures made of dead things have to turn on their masters now?

Sentient creatures growing beyond the control of their creators before turning against them and wrecking their whole lives has become a bit of a recurring theme in Order Of The Stick.

On an unrelated note, does anyone know if our esteemed author has children?

[Reboot]

Greenhilt's broken blade cutting three out of four nooses remains the prime example of this, but in this strip, we see Crystal throw her broken knife and injure Bozzok's shoulder. It's still magical, it's still sharp, and now jagged.

Doesn't a broken weapon immediately, permanently (even if reforged/repaired, unless the spell is also recast) lose its magical enhancements?

No matter what the rules might say, you cannot burn down a stone golem. I'm putting my foot down on that one.

Stone isn't universally unaffected by fire. Even if you don't get hot enough to melt it, all but the densest igneous rocks will still bake - it's how limestone becomes quicklime, for instance.

I'm sure he will be as dead as Nale. Nobody's going to haul his body over to the Church of Loki to pay for a Resurrection, considering that Bozzok has no allies at hand to do so. Also, I'm sure that the minute that the Guild finds out about his death, there will be a new guildmaster in town who certainly wants to hold on to their new position. Finally, with the way Crystal was acting at the end of he strip, it sounds like Bozzok's corpse will be beyond the reach of a standard Resurrection.

I think you mean Raise Dead. All you need is a tiny piece of a dead body to use Resurrection - even a small amount of Disintegrated dust counts. About the only ways you can outright prevent Resurrection working are to (a) steal the entire body or (b) trap the soul with something like Soul Bind (which would even prevent True Resurrection).

'Cept she's not in Greysky City now. She's not even anywhere near it--she's on the other side of the world, with no apparent way back.

She can walk. She's super-strong, doesn't get tired and doesn't need to breathe, yes?

[Xodiac]

Do not taunt Happy Fun Crystal.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[The Recreator]

Has anyone made a direct comparison between Crystal and Durkula yet? I can't help but think the main payoff of this arc is going to be down the road when the Order finally confronts the vampiric ex-meatbag. With Crystal under their belt, the Order now has direct experience handling (arguably) intelligent, evil, postmortem beings where they knew that being before death.

I'd also add that the key difference between Crystal and Durkula is that while both have memories of their body's previous life, only Crystal is truly the same person. Durkula's just a negative energy puppetmaster taking a cleric's body for a joy ride. I'm not sure how that's relevant just yet, but I swear it will be.

[Darth Paul]

Well, that one turned the "Holy Crap" dial up to full. And broke it off.

So, awkward moments lie ahead for Crystal Golem (Golem Crystal?)... does she go on trial? She could be reasonably held to have been acting under duress and not in her right mind. Maybe she eventually gets a job with Gnomeland Security?

[Lheticus]

Holy flightless birds, Batm--err, Giant! You truly have created a monster with this badminton playing purple ostrich thing. I'm going to start calling something no one should EVER have taken seriously that a lot of people are taking seriously a purple ostrich. Although, I'm not sure if the monster is the idea or the fanbase that ran with it...

Wait a second...OstRICH...RICH Burlew...

Carry the pi...and throw it in someone's face...

BELKAR WILL BE KILLED BY A PURPLE OSTRICH!

If you don't know that I'm kidding, you need professional help.

[Gift Jeraff]

rip bozzok

[Jetstream]

If you think the answer to this question is anything other than a resounding, "Yes, of course they would," then you obviously haven't been around this forum for very long.

That being said, to everyone: Please stop policing other people's reactions. Everyone is allowed to express their opinion on the comic, as long as they stay away from the update schedule.

If you're one of the folks who likes the comic just the way it is and feel the need to defend it against other people's opinions, rest assured that readers have been telling me to get on with the main plot at the start of every new book since there started being new books, and there is literally zero chance that I am in any way going to take such requests under consideration. They are just background radiation at this point and have as much chance of meaningfully impacting the story as would a request that I replace the main cast with talking purple ostriches playing badminton.

But would you be willing to include a talking purple ostrich playing badminton?

[Sir_Dr_D]

What I think will happen is next is Crystal will find she no longer hates Haley. All along Crystal thought it was Haley she hated, but it was really hate of Bozzok, her unsatisifacory life, and the way she was treated, that was misdirected against Haley.


I think she will leave Haley alone now.

[blunk]

See? Isn't that much better than the long rambling story full of useless subplots and pesky character development we've gotten?

It's like life, right? The sidequests *are* the adventure, for the most part, but they often just seem like distractions at the time.

[Amphiox]

"SPLRTCH!" really puts the punch in "punch line"

Reviewing that panel, I noticed that the SPLRTCH is a punch through his left upper chest. And he's dead next panel.

Yeah. She ripped out/crushed his heart in a single blow.

[Cerlis]

Never thought i'd say this.

Poor Crystal.

Maybe if she had more of a brain she wouldnt be such a sociopath manipulated by literally everyone around her.

No one ever thinks about what its like for the stupid muscle the villain keeps getting to do his dirty work.

Least she gets to literally come back from the grave and giver her devil what for.

[Parallel Pain]

Where are Bozzak's wound on panel 11?

[Cerlis]

But would you be willing to include a talking purple ostrich playing badminton?

Seriously, it might be fun for the adventurer's to interrupt the MOtD and we see a TV with it playing in the background.

[Ralanr]

What I think will happen is next is Crystal will find she no longer hates Haley. All along Crystal thought it was Haley she hated, but it was really hate of Bozzok, her unsatisifacory life, and the way she was treated, that was misdirected against Haley.


I think she will leave Haley alone now.

Venting all your rage against someone else for problems caused by others isn't too far fetched. I'm not sure if she'll leave Haley alone.

After all...there was the shoes.

Never thought i'd say this.

Poor Crystal.

Maybe if she had more of a brain she wouldnt be such a sociopath manipulated by literally everyone around her.

No one ever thinks about what its like for the stupid muscle the villain keeps getting to do his dirty work.

Least she gets to literally come back from the grave and giver her devil what for.

This is why I love this webcomic. I actually feel for the characters.

[Acacia OnnaStik]

Has anyone made a direct comparison between Crystal and Durkula yet? I can't help but think the main payoff of this arc is going to be down the road when the Order finally confronts the vampiric ex-meatbag. With Crystal under their belt, the Order now has direct experience handling (arguably) intelligent, evil, postmortem beings where they knew that being before death.

I'd also add that the key difference between Crystal and Durkula is that while both have memories of their body's previous life, only Crystal is truly the same person. Durkula's just a negative energy puppetmaster taking a cleric's body for a joy ride. I'm not sure how that's relevant just yet, but I swear it will be.

Well, it'll mean that when he starts showing his evil, reasoning with him as if he were the same person won't work. I guess, theoretically, they could find something the vampire wants more than to follow Hel's plan, but I don't think that's very likely.

As for Crystal, I don't see any ending for her where she stays "alive". She's in literally constant pain and clearly views that as much worse than having been killed in the first place. She's killed a lot of gnomes and I don't see them overlooking that, nor should they. She's still a violent person who hates Haley and there's no longer anyone she hates more, except possibly Grubwiggler who's far away now. She'll either destroy herself, demand to be destroyed, or force them to destroy her by rampaging some more.

My money's on doing it herself. After dramatically rebelling against her abusive boss, I feel like she deserves a bittersweet release rather than just going out as another threat, and she seems like she'd have too much of an ego to ask her enemies for help. Especially with something that personal.

[LadyEowyn]

Has anyone made a direct comparison between Crystal and Durkula yet? I can't help but think the main payoff of this arc is going to be down the road when the Order finally confronts the vampiric ex-meatbag. With Crystal under their belt, the Order now has direct experience handling (arguably) intelligent, evil, postmortem beings where they knew that being before death.

I'd also add that the key difference between Crystal and Durkula is that while both have memories of their body's previous life, only Crystal is truly the same person. Durkula's just a negative energy puppetmaster taking a cleric's body for a joy ride. I'm not sure how that's relevant just yet, but I swear it will be.

I think you're on the right track here. I expect this part of this arc will be examining and ultimately taking apart Redcloak's assertion that "the undead aren't people, just tools", through the characters of Crystal and HPOH as well as Xykon.

Rich has taken too strong a position on the conviction that all sapient beings are people, regardless of creature type (in particularly, with the black dragon and with the goblins), for me to expect the narrative to go anywhere else.

[BrotherMirtillo]

Holy boop.

That is one super-dead conspirator.

I think this sets some kind of record for killing off a named character early in a book. Not that it’s a contest, because it’s not. But I really thought Bozzok would be in this for the long haul. I thought the story depended on having people’s plans interfere with other people’s other plans, and to have that, you needed to have people capable of any plan at all. Crystal “Might Even Be a Bit Ahead,” but I didn’t think she was an independent player, and Grubwiggler just made it crystal clear that he wants no part in these happenings.

So I feel very unseated here. To borrow from a certain tin-plated dictator, I don’t know what happens next.

...which might have been the point of this comic.

Lay on, MacGiant.

Just two other notes. The lesser one: it took me a while to understand the Q&A between Haley and the Gnomeland Security officer. I wasn’t sure who was getting into hypothetical trouble for what, but I think I’ve sorted it out now. I guess that’s the challenge of getting a wordy comic’s dynamics into one panel. Good enough. (Also, I wonder how many other roleplayers have had to convince the cops to not get involved.)

And the greater point: as Mike pointed out, I think it’s wonderful that Crystal one-shotted Bozzok’s sword with essentially the same tactic he told her to use on Haley’s bow. Maybe Crystal really is getting smarter. So I'll wrap up with this, with which I agree completely:

Never thought i'd say this.

Poor Crystal.

Maybe if she had more of a brain she wouldnt be such a sociopath manipulated by literally everyone around her.

No one ever thinks about what its like for the stupid muscle the villain keeps getting to do his dirty work.

[LadyEowyn]

It's like life, right? The sidequests *are* the adventure, for the most part, but they often just seem like distractions at the time.

Been watching Up recently?

I love that movie.

[BungleBee]

Great Comic, Giant! I hope she makes Buzzok puree.

[Amphiox]

So I guess this means Bozzok is out as one of the 8 sides vying for the Gates? (not sure he even ever found out about them)

[Nightsbridge]

No matter how good his bluff is, starting out with openly agreeing with what Haley said to get Crystal to realize he was screwing with her must have been enough to give her a bonus to offset it.

[Cerlis]

Well that was...wow. Um.

Really Bozzok, what else did you expect after saying something like that?

well I think he did it because he's done that several times. Before he'd probably just have to say "Haley" and she'd go into a blind rage.

The reason this was so successful and why it makes me sad is because Crystal realized she HAS been manipulated that Bozzak (like probably others in her life) just thought she was stupid and used her, she suffered for it, and they just used her to try to hurt people like haley, which just got HER hurt and killed.

Maybe not as complex as that, but I think she at LEAST knew that on a fundamental level. When Bozzak was yelling at her he was expecting to send the stupid monster who is now a worse monster back at Haley by lying to her and manipulating her lack of intelligence, and her anger. What he didnt realize is What Haley said to her and so He basically did the thing that Crystal hates about him, right to her face.

I can imagine Crystal's mind, as some crayon drawing with a green stick figure saying "Haley is right, You is stupid and you smell. Kill stuff for me. Stupid"

[Cerlis]

Aaand the cleaning up of the minor plotholes and loose ends continues. So long, Bozzak. You won't be missed.

So... what do we think of Celia's peace treaty that she brokered between Haley and the Guild? A treaty that was broken by both parties before the ink was dry?

Celia is probably the most "good" person on the scale who has been in our party, but "naive good" doesn't take you as far as "pragmatic good", personified by Roy and Haley.

I don't mind admitting that this is a .. how to describe it..? The description and the drawing make me feel sick, as if something horribly gruesome happened, but the panels don't actually SHOW anything truly explicit. It's not a gore fest , but it IS horrifying. And since that is what Rich is trying to show, I'd call this comic a win for him. It's a horrible ending for a horrible being; as with Tsukiko being eaten by her own wights, the karma train has come full circle.

ETA: I find no fault with the Gnomish police officer standing outside instead of running in to her death. As a low-level NPC she could avail little in the course of her duty save to be slain also. This is a job either for high-level adventurers or for whatever DGS has that's waay above the standard constable's paygrade.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

Indeed a great thing about the medium. We can get all the catharsis of an abused minion throwing his corpse around , without all the horror of seeing his goo and giblits flying around.

Oh so many horror and monster movies are ruined by giblits IMO.

[Angelalex242]

RIP Bozzok...

Or should I say, Rest in Pieces.

[ti'esar]

So I guess this means Bozzok is out as one of the 8 sides vying for the Gates? (not sure he even ever found out about them)

He was only ever speculated as being a potential one. Looks like that's definitely out as a possibility now (he said in an extreme understatement).

[YossarianLives]

Get, completely and utterly rekt Bozzok.

[Emperordaniel]

Holy flightless birds, Batm--err, Giant! You truly have created a monster with this badminton playing purple ostrich thing. I'm going to start calling something no one should EVER have taken seriously that a lot of people are taking seriously a purple ostrich. Although, I'm not sure if the monster is the idea or the fanbase that ran with it...

Wait a second...OstRICH...RICH Burlew...

Carry the pi...and throw it in someone's face...

BELKAR WILL BE KILLED BY A PURPLE OSTRICH!

Badminton championships are hardcore.

[Aasimar]

Grubwiggler seems like he's evil, but he may well be neutral. A harsh and pragmatic sort of neutral person, but not 'necessarily' evil. He only turned his golems on Haley after it seemed to him that she was trying to cheat him out of several tens of thousands of gold pieces, and even then it seemed like he was more trying to extract the money for services rendered than harboring them any actual ill-will. (though, treating people this callously is surely at least somewhat evil, but I don't know if it's enough to place him exactly)

In this scene however?

Saving someone is the good action, in the absence of other data.

Killing them is the evil action. (likewise, unless data suggesting otherwise is available)

Reserving your powers to save yourself and leaving others who you have no particular liking for to fend for themselves is unequivocally the neutral action.

It's self serving, naturally.

It's like Batman said in Batman Begins. "I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you."