Optimisation Challenge: Highest Int at level 1

[Troacctid]

What makes you think you get to pick from that list? Page 6 of Player's Handbook details the steps of creating a level 1 character. Your ability scores come before choice of race and class. Your alignment comes at the end. You don't get to pick a Chaotic alignment after you've chosen the Monk class. Similarly, you don't get to pick a race with insufficient bonus languages after you've chosen a high INT. Early choices can preclude freedom to make later picks.

You can totally pick a Chaotic alignment after choosing the Monk class. It just makes you an ex-Monk.

Anyway, languages are governed by the Speak Language skill, and skill selection happens after race selection.

[Curmudgeon]

You can totally pick a Chaotic alignment after choosing the Monk class. It just makes you an ex-Monk.

We're talking at character creation. You don't have a chance to be an ex-anything until you've actually qualified for a class level.

Anyway, languages are governed by the Speak Language skill, and skill selection happens after race selection.

That's only partly correct. There's nothing about skills in the RACE AND LANGUAGES rule (Player's Handbook, page 12):

A smart character (one who had an Intelligence bonus at 1st level) speaks other languages as well, one extra language per point of Intelligence bonus as a starting character. Select your character’s bonus languages (if any) from the list found in his or her race’s description later in this chapter.

[dextercorvia]

A Spellwarped, Phrenic, Primordial Ogre Mage can have an Int of 32=18+4(Ogre Mage)+4(Primordial)+2(Phrenic)+4(Spellwarped). It will have 5RHD and LA+12. Ogre Mage only has 4 Bonus Language choices, and one of them (Infernal) overlaps with Cleric. So, that is 11 Bonus Languages and only 4 from Race and 2 from class. Are there any regions that provide 5 Bonus Language choices?

[Curmudgeon]

That's an ECL 18 creature with 1 class level, which is below the Epic threshold; that's good.

Automatic Languages: Common, Giant. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Goblin, Infernal, Orc.
A cleric’s bonus language options include Celestial, Abyssal, and Infernal.

The Ashane region (first one on the table @ Player's Guide to Faerûn, page 30) has
Bonus Languages: Aquan, Auran, Giant, Goblin, Mulhorandi, Rashemi, Shou, Tuigan.

So this Ogre Mage with all the templates still is a viable racial choice; INT doesn't force you to choose something else with Bonus Languages: Any. It doesn't even force you to choose Cleric; you could choose Druid instead, picking up Sylvan as another bonus language.

[EugeneVoid]

Well, how many languages are there?

[Thurbane]

Well, how many languages are there?

At least this many: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-of-Languages

[Chronos]

I still don't think forcing a region is legitimate. It might be legitimate for campaigns set in that world, but not all campaigns are set in Faerun.

[dextercorvia]

Okay,

A Riddled, Spellhoarding, Half-Dragon, Half-Fiend, Half-Nymph, Spellwarped, Phrenic Wyrmling Mercury Dragon can have an Int of 40=18 Base + 2 Phrenic + 4 Spellwarped + 2 Half-Nymph + 4 Half-Fiend + 2 Half-Dragon +2 Spellhoarding +6 Riddled.

Nothing about the other templates changes Mercury Dragon's Age categories, so when Half-Dragon switches the type back to dragon, he is eligible for the Dragon only acquired templates: Riddled and Spellhoarding.

His ECL at Character level 1 is 20 = 3RHD+2LA+2 Phrenic+3 Spellwarped + 2 Half-Nymph + 4 Half-Fiend + 3 Half-Dragon + 1 Class Level.

Dragons have no Bonus languages from Race, so he would need to come up with 15 Bonus languages from a combination of class and region.

[WhamBamSam]

Okay,

A Riddled, Spellhoarding, Half-Dragon, Half-Fiend, Half-Nymph, Spellwarped, Phrenic Wyrmling Mercury Dragon can have an Int of 40=18 Base + 2 Phrenic + 4 Spellwarped + 2 Half-Nymph + 4 Half-Fiend + 2 Half-Dragon +2 Spellhoarding +6 Riddled.

Nothing about the other templates changes Mercury Dragon's Age categories, so when Half-Dragon switches the type back to dragon, he is eligible for the Dragon only acquired templates: Riddled and Spellhoarding.

His ECL at Character level 1 is 20 = 3RHD+2LA+2 Phrenic+3 Spellwarped + 2 Half-Nymph + 4 Half-Fiend + 3 Half-Dragon + 1 Class Level.

Dragons have no Bonus languages from Race, so he would need to come up with 15 Bonus languages from a combination of class and region.

Riddled is acquired, which is a problem for this exercise. Also, you probably need to juggle the order of those templates around if you want it to have the dragon type to even qualify for Riddled.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Get a hold of a pair of metamagic rods: One of Empower Spell, one of Maximize Spell.

Cast Awaken.

3d6 Int becomes (18+50%=27)

Add whatever fancy stuff you people do.

????

Prof- Wait, no. Go Psion until you get Control Body, and use another creature as your proxy body.

Profit.

[Curmudgeon]

Get a hold of a pair of metamagic rods: One of Empower Spell, one of Maximize Spell.

Not going to work.

Metamagic Rods
Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat but do not change the spell slot of the altered spell. All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity). A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod’s wielder. In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.

Plus, of course, this doesn't satisfy the terms of the exercise. Awaken doesn't have an associated LA (essentially "─"), so you can't do the arithmetic to say that the creature doesn't exceed ECL 20.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Awaken doesn't have an associated LA (essentially "─"), so you can't do the arithmetic to say that the creature doesn't exceed ECL 20.

...Um, what does that have to do with anything? Awaken doesn't change the LA at all, why would you need to calculate a non-change?

EDIT- Also, yes, fudge. I always forget about the MM-Rod limitation. Whatever though, MM-Rod of Max and then use the Empower MM. Doesn't invalidate the idea, just makes it a touch harder to do.

[General Sajaru]

Why not just use an Intensified Awaken for all stats at 36?

[Troacctid]

...Um, what does that have to do with anything? Awaken doesn't change the LA at all, why would you need to calculate a non-change?

Trees and animals have LA: ─ to start with, sooo...

[Tohsaka Rin]

Why not just use an Intensified Awaken for all stats at 36?

Because A) Awaken only changes Int and Cha.

And B) I didn't know that MM existed. Wow, I do now though, wow.

[dextercorvia]

Riddled is acquired, which is a problem for this exercise. Also, you probably need to juggle the order of those templates around if you want it to have the dragon type to even qualify for Riddled.

If you read the order I gave the templates from right to left, you will see that I applied Riddled last. I even mentioned it in that post. You go from being a dragon to aberration to fey to outsider back to dragon. Since you still have your age categories (and any other dragon qualifying feature) from being a Mercury dragon, when you take Half-Dragon (your last inherited template), it brings you back to dragon type, and you qualify for the dragon psychosis.

[EugeneVoid]

Voidmind gives +2 int for 1 LA

[WhamBamSam]

If you read the order I gave the templates from right to left, you will see that I applied Riddled last. I even mentioned it in that post. You go from being a dragon to aberration to fey to outsider back to dragon. Since you still have your age categories (and any other dragon qualifying feature) from being a Mercury dragon, when you take Half-Dragon (your last inherited template), it brings you back to dragon type, and you qualify for the dragon psychosis.

You're right about the typing. I didn't read your post carefully enough.

Still, it would presumably contract the Psychoses after selecting languages, so being an acquired template is still an issue here.

[dextercorvia]

You're right about the typing. I didn't read your post carefully enough.

Still, it would presumably contract the Psychoses after selecting languages, so being an acquired template is still an issue here.

I don't think so. You select languages after race (including acquired templates, if desired). At the level of Rules Pedantry where your intelligence may be high enough to force a specific class choice or region, then we are not worried about organic character growth or common sense.

Voidmind gives +2 int for 1 LA

Presumably you are using Crystalkeep. They have the incorrect LA for that template. It is actually +3.

[nedz]

Sorry — I've been offline for a couple of weeks — time to pick this up again perhaps ?

Okay,

A Riddled, Spellhoarding, Half-Dragon, Half-Fiend, Half-Nymph, Spellwarped, Phrenic Wyrmling Mercury Dragon can have an Int of 40=18 Base + 2 Phrenic + 4 Spellwarped + 2 Half-Nymph + 4 Half-Fiend + 2 Half-Dragon +2 Spellhoarding +6 Riddled.

Nothing about the other templates changes Mercury Dragon's Age categories, so when Half-Dragon switches the type back to dragon, he is eligible for the Dragon only acquired templates: Riddled and Spellhoarding.

His ECL at Character level 1 is 20 = 3RHD+2LA+2 Phrenic+3 Spellwarped + 2 Half-Nymph + 4 Half-Fiend + 3 Half-Dragon + 1 Class Level.

Dragons have no Bonus languages from Race, so he would need to come up with 15 Bonus languages from a combination of class and region.

Even if we dump the acquired templates from this build we still have 11 Bonus languages, which should be enough.

Also: I'm not happy about adding in constraints which relate to a specific region AND setting. At the very least this should be conditional on the question.