bardic spell selection

[Theodred theOld]

I need some advice on which spells to pick. The character is a 3rd lvl bard focused on boosting inspire courage and snowflake wardancing. Inspirational boost is a given but beyond that it's pretty much open. Suggestions? Should also mention that I plan on purchasing a 1st lvl everlasting wand (probably mage armor) So any thoughts on that would be beneficial as well.

[Dread_Head]

Don't bother getting an everlasting wand of mage armour, mithril chain shirt is cheaper and probably better for your purposes. Consider getting an everlasting want of Improvisational boost instead as you will be casting it regularly and it leaves some spell slots available to cast other spells.

In terms of spells it probably doesn't matter much as you won't have many per day and will mostly be using those casting Improvisational boost. I recommend Grease and/or Tashas Hideous laughter as good combat spells. Silent Image is very useful as well but depends somewhat on your DM. Improvisation (SC) is good when you have a higher CL, switch it in later maybe. Disguise Self can be good out of combat but depends on what sort of campaign you will be playing.

Next level when you get 2nd's you probably want to take Glitterdust and one of Mirror Image or Alter Self for a defensive buff. Invisibility can also be good, but I would wait to pick it up. Grace (SC), Elation (BoED) or Eagles splendour could be useful to you as well.

[Theodred theOld]

Grease has been on a short list of possibles as well as improvisation. Worth mentioning that I don't plan on advancing CL past the current level. Great tip on the armor though.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

When selecting an Eternal Wand (MIC), keep in mind that it's always a standard action to activate, regardless of the spell's casting time. Normal wands are spell trigger activation, and per the Rules Compendium take the same action to activate as the spell's casting time. So don't bother getting a swift-action casting time on an Eternal Wand, such as Inspirational Boost, because you'll have to spend a standard action to use it. A better choice would be Benign Transposition, or just don't get a 1st level Eternal Wand because there are such better choices at 2nd level (Web, Command Undead to name a few).

For your own spells, it sort of depends on what alternate class features you're getting. Do you have Bardic Knack (PH2) Healing Hymn (CC), Spellbreaker Song (CM), and plan on trading Suggestion for Song of the Heart (ECS)? Do you have Melodic Casting (CM), so you can cast spells and activate wands (but not an Eternal Wand) without interrupting your Inspire Courage? If you have Healing Hymn then Cure Light Wounds would be a decent choice, since you could add your Perform ranks to the amount healed by it, but it doesn't work with wands or potions. You can also use Healing Hymn to boost Cure Minor Wounds cast by a party member. Are you good aligned, and if not, do you plan on taking a dip into Mindbender? If you are good aligned, do you plan on using the Ancestral Relic Runestaff trick?

[Max Caysey]

I need some advice on which spells to pick. The character is a 3rd lvl bard focused on boosting inspire courage and snowflake wardancing. Inspirational boost is a given but beyond that it's pretty much open. Suggestions? Should also mention that I plan on purchasing a 1st lvl everlasting wand (probably mage armor) So any thoughts on that would be beneficial as well.

Harmony

An remember to use a natural Horn (masterwork) have a Badge of Valor (MiC), and the Ebberron feat: Song of the Heart

That way your level 3 Bard can give +6 morale bonus to attack and damage to all allies who can hear the music!!!


EDIT: Oh and get Words of Creation

[Theodred theOld]

Ok so inspirational boost on a wand, harmony, improvisation and grease as spells known. I also took versatile spellcaster so I can burn a total of four 1st lvl spells/ day.

[Max Caysey]

Ok so inspirational boost on a wand, harmony, improvisation and grease as spells known. I also took versatile spellcaster so I can burn a total of four 1st lvl spells/ day.

Who else is in the Party, because I would want to know Beastland Ferocity if there was also a Cleric with Delay Death, that way your tank, if you have one could not dei from HP damage. And given the +6 to attack and damage, thats pretty cool.

Also if you allow Dragon Mag. then there is a "masterpiece" thing, that works like an item or weapon for the bard. So you could make a +5 masterpiece for another +5 morale bonus to inspire courage. Its from #301. If function alot like itemcreation

[Hiro Quester]

You have to learn Harmonize (ROS, Bard 2 spell). 10 min/level duration. Enables you to begin bardic music as a move action.

That combined with the Melodic Casting feat (another must have) means you can both begin a bardic music effect and cast a spell in the same round. Then you can begin every encounter by both casting haste and singing Inspire Courage).

At higher levels, Sirines Grace spell (4th level) will be your friend. +4 to Dex and Cha, plus add your Cha bonus to your AC. You will need this if you are melee/SFWDing.

Bards also get access to a lot of good interrupt spells. One of the best, beside the obvious Celerity, is Ruin Delver's Fortune (SC). Add your CHA bonus to a single saving throw for 1d4 rounds.

Stay the hand (PH II, Bard 1 level) is also good, esp. at lower levels, You cast it as an interrupt whenever anyone decides to attack you. Attacker has to succeed on a will save or they will suddenly choose not to attack you. And they can choose a different target, but if a spell they must beat a concentration check, if it was a melee attack they are -4 on attack roll).

[Max Caysey]

Elation is another great spell.

[Darrin]

Some other spells to consider:

Silent Image (Core, Brd/Sor/Wiz 1): Create fake pits/walls, great for messing with mindless creatures. Yeah, enemies can disbelieve it, but they have to waste an action to do so.

Instant Diversion (Races of the Dragon, Brd/Sor/Wiz 1): Essentially "lesser mirror image", but it's a swift action to cast, and even with only one image, 50/50 is still pretty good odds.

Instant of Power (Forge of War, Brd/Dru/Rgr 1): Immediate action, give any ally a +4 enhancement bonus on their next attack, save, or damage roll. Great spell to have in a wand chamber (100 GP, Dungeonscape).

Invisibility, Swift (Spell Compendium, Brd 1): I love that you can use this *after* you attack.

Ray of Hope (BoED, Brd/Clr 1): There's some overlap with Inspire Courage/Competence, but a good little filler buff to make the meatbags happy.

[Theodred theOld]

Resurrecting this thread after some game time. I've been boosting +7/+7 due to some backroom dealing with the dm (dropped fascinate and countersong for SotH). The summoning focused druid I've been adventuring with loves it. Was thinking of dropping a few caster levels for some swashbuckler levels to get finesse and insightful strike but it seems like the caster levels would serve us better at this point. Any thoughts on a PrC that would fit the flavor of a 120 year old kobold bard that likes to dance around with an axe?

[Troacctid]

Well, definitely stay away from Swashbuckler, since the whole class is a massive trap without a single worthwhile class feature. Weapon Finesse isn't worth it, Insightful Strike isn't worth it, Grace certainly isn't worth it, the SLAs aren't worth it, it's just a terrible class.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You want exactly eight levels of Bard, two levels of something, and then two levels of Sublime Chord and finish with eight levels of prestige classes that advance your SC spellcasting.

Those two levels can be just about anything, but certain single level dips are far more useful than others. Mindbender 1 gets you telepathy 100 ft. and qualifies you for Mindsight in LoM, if you're nongood (but you're better off good/exalted for Words of Creation). Dragon Devotee 1 gets you +2 Cha and +1 natural armor. Sorcerer 1 with the dragonblood sorcerer substitution level gets Draconic Heritage to switch Dragonfire Inspiration to another energy type (Sonic, and cast Creaking Cacophony), and enables you to use wands of spells such as Command Undead and Wings of Cover without using UMD. Warblade 1 useful for weapon proficiencies and maneuvers/stances, I'd get Wall of Blades, Mountain Hammer, and Iron Heart Surge. A dip into Binder or Incarnate is useful, or even Cloistered Cleric 1 for three domains/devotion feats, access to divine feats, and wand use. Anything that significantly expands your character's capabilities is a good choice for that.

For classes to take after Sublime Chord, you've got eight or nine levels to work with, and every one of them needs to be able to advance your SC spellcasting. Top choices include Abjurant Champion 4 or 5, Incantatrix 3 or 4, Divine Oracle 2 or 4, Virtuoso if you took its first level before Sublime Chord, Sacred Exorcist if you want divine feats, Paragnostic Apostle, Spelldancer if you want to persist spells and don't like Incantatrix, etc. You can get Iron Will for Incantatrix via the Otyugh Hole, or Skill Focus: Knowledge Religion for Divine Oracle via the Frog God's Fane, both in CS.

[Theodred theOld]

I need something that can get me some free feats and progress spellcasting. Wand usage hasn't been an issue and divine magic isn't really my cup of tea. Planning on words of creation at level 6 but not sure after that. Stats are 14, 16, 18, 20, 7, 21.

[Troacctid]

Ardent Dilettante, maybe. It's easy to qualify for (at least for the first 6 levels), it works well with Sublime Chord and it gives you a bonus feat at 4th level (which can be any feat).

Lyric Thaumaturge is also good. It gives you a bonus feat in Captivating Melody, as well as extra spells known and extra spell slots, which are kind of like feats, and can even be directly converted into feats if you take Heroics as one of the spells.

[Sith_Happens]

Ok so inspirational boost on a wand, harmony, improvisation and grease as spells known. I also took versatile spellcaster so I can burn a total of four 1st lvl spells/ day.

Harmony also as a wand. Improvisation isn't worth it if you're staying at CL 3, but it looks like you've changed your mind about that.

Warblade 1 useful for weapon proficiencies and maneuvers/stances, I'd get Wall of Blades, Mountain Hammer, and Iron Heart Surge.

The best part about dipping Warblade is that you can then take the Song of the White Raven feat, which lets you activate Inspire Courage as a swift action.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I need something that can get me some free feats and progress spellcasting. Wand usage hasn't been an issue and divine magic isn't really my cup of tea. Planning on words of creation at level 6 but not sure after that. Stats are 14, 16, 18, 20, 7, 21.

What feats do you need? Generally an Inspire Courage Bard only has two or three feats he needs to have, and all the rest are open, though there are a lot of really nice feats to take. You would be better off using a shortbow over melee attacks, since it still benefits from Inspire Courage and keeps you out of the fight. What feats do you already have, and what do you plan on taking?

The best part about dipping Warblade is that you can then take the Song of the White Raven feat, which lets you activate Inspire Courage as a swift action.

I would skip Song of the White Raven, considering you'll already be spending your swift action to cast Inspirational Boost.

[Theodred theOld]

Took 2 flaws and traded fascinate and countersong to the dm for a total of five feats at 3rd level.
1st: dragonwrought, extra music, battle dancer.
3rd: snowflake wardance, song of the heart.
So far I've built to maximize inspire courage and was planning on taking words of creation at 6 but I'd like to be able to go lyric thaumaturge sooner than 9 so I'll need melodic casting.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

PH2 chapter 8, on reaching 6th level replace your Extra Music feat with Melodic Casting.

I'll warn you though, going Bard 6/ Lyric Thaumaturge will miss out on the Bard 8 improvement to Inspire Courage, and you can't use it to advance Sublime Chord casting because it only advances Bard casting. You would either not be taking Sublime Chord (not a good idea), or you would be going Bard 6/ Lyric Thaumaturge 4/ Sublime Chord 1 or 2/ other arcane advancing PrCs 8 or 9.

[Theodred theOld]

Not sure if I'll need the boost to inspire courage after words of creation. I'll already be boosting for +13/+13 so what's one more point? Sublime chord is definitely on the horizon, I just need to figure out what to fill 6-10 with.

[Thurbane]

Instant of Power (Bard 1, Forge of War): +4 enhancement bonus on next attack roll, saving throw, or damage roll as an immediate action.

[Hiro Quester]

Not sure if I'll need the boost to inspire courage after words of creation. I'll already be boosting for +13/+13 so what's one more point? Sublime chord is definitely on the horizon, I just need to figure out what to fill 6-10 with.

Go to bard 8 at least, then.

Check out prestige classes that progress casting after the first level, but not the first level. Some of those are awesome on a bard chassis. And you can take that first level between bard8 and SC at level 10, so you don't lose a SC caster level.

The classic is bard9 virtuoso 1 /sc2/virtuoso8. Virtuoso progresses SC casting, but adds many useful bardic music so.

Other options for that 2level gap include war weaver for buffing your party with one spell that hits everyone. Or swiftblade for some awesome personal melee benefits. Neither progresses casting for the first level.

And again let me put in a plug for learning harmonize spell instead of harmony (if you don't really need the +1 to IC). Being able to begin bardic music as a move action frees up your standard action for casting. Singing inspire courage and casting haste in the first round of combat will make your party love you.

[Theodred theOld]

I thought harmonize was a 2nd lvl spell while harmony is 1st. I may be mistaken on that. I can certainly see the benefits of both and I'll probably be using both at some point. I mainly need things that can either boost my own melee damage (i regularly get +18 to hit) or thing that give more slots and more spells.

I found whirling blade which will allow multiple attacks at +18 to hit at 1d4+14. That should carry me for a few levels.

[Hiro Quester]

I thought harmonize was a 2nd lvl spell while harmony is 1st. I may be mistaken on that. I can certainly see the benefits of both and I'll probably be using both at some point. I mainly need things that can either boost my own melee damage (i regularly get +18 to hit) or thing that give more slots and more spells.

I found whirling blade which will allow multiple attacks at +18 to hit at 1d4+14. That should carry me for a few levels.

Oh. Yes. My mistake. I wasn't looking at the details of Harmony but doing that from memory.

Whirling blade is good. In theory. I played a bard/sc to level 20 and while I knew that spell, I only cast it once, when three enemies were lined up. (Your results may vary.)

With SFWD you already add your CHA to hit and damage. Some items to consider that will add further are gauntlets of heartfelt blows (add your charisma bonus in fire damage to all melee attacks), and slippers of battledancing to add CHA again to attack and damage (though you need pounce or a source of extra move actions to use them with a full attack, and make sure your DM agrees that they stack with SFWD).

A wand of Heroics spell will be very useful. Give people temp use of a fighter bonus feat.

At fourth level there are many many good spells (high priority for Ruin Delver's fortune (Immediate action add CHA bonus to any saving throw) and Sirine's grace for +4 enhance to CHA and DEX, and to add your CHA as a deflection bonus to your AC.

But also thunderlance. Sim to whirling blade, it uses your casting stat instead of STR for attack and damage, does 3d6 damage, and instantly resizes between 0 and 20 feet to give you up to 20 foot reach. (That last part is gold. Esp if you use Harmonize Heroics spell(get a wand) to get temp use of combat reflexes, so a medium creature coming in to attack you gets three AoOs against them, if you have a reasonable dex, which you should if Sirine's grace is active.)

Another good spell for you is mindless rage. You insult someone and they get so angry at you they can only attack you with their non-magical attacks only. (Use SC 2 song that increases your caster level to up the DC.) Getting this on the enemy wizard can be very funny.

And I strongly recommend the feat Doomspeak, as one of the best debuffs in the game. Use bardic music to insult the enemy, and the enemy must make a high DC will save (10 plus character level plus your CHA bonus) or be -10 for all saves, ability checks and skill checks until your next turn. Coordinate with others to nuke them with damaging spells during that round. (And with Harmonize you do this as a move action then blast or disable them with a spell.)

[Theodred theOld]

SFWD only adds cha to hit not to damage. That's why I've been looking for a way to add
cha or int to damage as well. What good is it to automatically hit most things if I can only dish 10-13 damage/ hit.

[Darrin]

SFWD only adds cha to hit not to damage.

This is why I consider Snowflake Wardance to be a trap. It also forces you into a single-weapon or two-weapon fighting style, where it's harder to take advantage of a higher Str bonus or two-handed Power Attack multipliers.

I think you'd be better off taking Dragonfire Inspiration or Melodic Casting at 3rd.

[Hiro Quester]

This is why I consider Snowflake Wardance to be a trap. It also forces you into a single-weapon or two-weapon fighting style, where it's harder to take advantage of a higher Str bonus or two-handed Power Attack multipliers.

I think you'd be better off taking Dragonfire Inspiration or Melodic Casting at 3rd.

Yes. Double plus the rec for melodic casting. You need that.

Edit: it's the bard equivalent of combat casting. Lets your ranks in perform do double duty for concentration checks. Plus many DMs will let MC stand in for combat casting prereq. if you take a level in abjurant champion for the free extend on abjurations

And yes, the requirement for slashing weapons is a limitation of SFWD. In addition to requiring one handed weapons, I often didn't use thunderlance because it's piercing rather than slashing weapon.

However if you learn dragonfire inspiration, then TWF is very viable, because of the sweet extra d6s to every successful attack. SFWD in TWF style with DFI increases the number of attacks per round and the chance of hitting, with that extra DFI damage. Again that wand of heroics can be handy, for obtaining temporary use of TWF feats.

Plus the rest of your party will love the extra damage of DFI too.

And gauntlets of heartfelt blows add CHA in fire damage on top of that damage.

So if you take DFI, try a different energy type than fire, in case your DM says the two sources of fire damage don't stack. Also fire immunity is not uncommon. A dragon ancestor with a Cold damage breath, for "a song of ice and fire" themed attacks perhaps? If an enemy is immune to one, they are sometimes vulnerable to the other.