Speech Balloons: Erfworld VS. Order of the Stick

[mockingbyrd7]

In my opinion, one of the only problems with Erfworld is that it flows in a confusing way and is often hard to understand. One of the main contributors to this problem is the fact that the speech bubbles have no definite edge, it's simply white and then whatever color it's next to. In other words, OotS word balloons have clearly marked borders. Take a look at any OotS comic -- for example, take number one, below:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html

All of the speech bubbles have a clear, bold, black border, and the comic flows in a natural, understandable way.

Look at Erf 5 and 6, on the other hand:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0005.html
Erfworld 5? Look at how bright that background is! The bubbles literally merge with the sky behind them and you can't tell who's speaking. I realize it's only a conversation between two people, but it still puts strain on the eyes and is a good example of the stuff I'm talking about. Making better borders (or borders at all, for that matter) around the word balloons would make the comic much more enjoyable. Especially look at the second to last panel; you can barely see the tails on Wanda's balloons.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0006.html
Erf 6 suffers from the same problem as #5 (though not as much) but what bothers me the most here is the last four panels. (I realize that this is a bit off the topic of speech bubbles, but I feel it's appropriate as long was we're talking about reader-friendliness). Wanda seems calm, then suddenly she screams, "CRAP!". Because of the awkward angle, we can't tell if she's looking upward. The first few times I read these panels, I thought Wanda was shouting CRAP because the dwagon was throwing a fireball at her. I had no idea what the last panel was about; we'd seen Bogroll's face once or twice and with an absurdly close close-up, I had not a clue what the boop was goin' on in there.

I FINALLY puzzled together a couple days ago that she was not looking upward, and was saying CRAP because she was angry with the outcome of the meeting. The only relevance between her saying CRAP and the last two panels were that the dwagon was cwapping on Bogwoll's parasol. And I still don't know WHY. This took me about twenty readings and three months to figure out. Maybe I'm just slow, but a comic should be understandable and have a good flow, and the speech bubbles should make sense. Who's the green guy on the dwagon? I still don't know. It's not obvious that it's a hunk o' poo flying from the dwagon's butt, except for the small "pfrrt" we see. (Don't even get me started on the reason that any trace of a nose, eyebrows, pupils, eyelids or lips disappear from Wanda's face in the middle of the strip.)

Thanks for your time, and I hope the author and the artist of the comic take this into consideration. Feel free to make your own comments.

mockingbyrd7

[SteveMB]

Erfworld 5? Look at how bright that background is! The bubbles literally merge with the sky behind them and you can't tell who's speaking.

The contrast is a bit low, but I never had any difficulty noticing the word box pointer. That said, I can see how it could be a problem if your monitor or viewing conditions aren't optimal.

Actually, I was initially confused by the "Ansom now knows we caught her." word box in 40:3 -- there, the issue isn't contrast (white against mid-to-dark gray), but the very short pointer issuing from a corner of the box combined with the fact that both Wanda and Stanley are in close proximity to it.

These things should be less of an issue in the printed volume. (Yeesh, I've been muttering "Is it Tuesday yet?" under my breath ever since reading page 41, and now I'm thinking about the eternity before this story is done and in print.)

[Erk]

Huh... I haven't ever had the slightest difficulty figuring out who was saying what or what was going on.

This should not be set up as an oots/erfworld comparison though. Those are forbidden. Rather the poll should be "do you find Erfworld's speech balloons hard to follow? Yes/no/undecided". It would make more sense for voting anyway

[Scientivore]

The topic of speech bubbles is interesting to me. The superficial comparison in the poll is not. OotS is not the be-all and end-all of speech bubbles and there are several independent differences between them, not an all-or-nothing package.

Back on topic. I agree with the OP about the borders of the speech bubbles. I also think that about something around 75-80% opacity would let the wonderful art strut its stuff a bit more without harming legibility. Check out The Bastard Swordsman (content warnings: graphic violence and drug use) for example; Dan Glasl has said that he usually uses 75%. Interestingly, although he puts a boundary around his bubbles, it's a more subtle effect than OotS; it looks like he applies the transparency to the boundary, too. Incidentally, if you're interested in comparing several different kinds of bubbles on the same strip, Dan made one particular strip available unlettered and you can find the results here (which is why I find speech bubbles interesting -- I've made some).

I know that I've said that before on other boards, about other comics. If I've already said it here about this one then I apologize for the repetition...and if not, then I apologize for failing to provide constructive criticism.

[Maerad of Pellinor]

I sometimes find it hard to know who's saying things in Erfworld, but I never noticed that there was no black border around speech bubbles until I saw this thread....

[Wooter]

I agree that the speech balloons* are a little... off. They don't seem like they fit in the comic exactly.

*not bubbles. Calling them bubbles is a no-no.

[Scientivore]

*not bubbles. Calling them bubbles is a no-no.

Okay. I have another specific criticism about the speech balloons. When I transcribed Page 17, I had to decided the sequence that they were in.

In panel 4, Stanley's statements are broken up into four separate balloons. There weren't any intervening statements by Wanda or anything; I assume that it was for visual balance. When I originally read it, I just sucked them all in and didn't bother ordering them.

When I had to sort them, it really wasn't clear to me where to go next after the top left. I had to stop and analyze which statements would logically come after which others. Eventually I decided that it was left-to-right and top-to-bottom like English words in a paragraph. That might sound like a "well, duh" but my eyes don't automatically see speech balloons in a panel that way.

I once read something interesting by Scott McCloud about providing readers with visual "trails" when you want to do something creative with the layout. He was writing in terms of panels on a webpage, not balloons in a panel, but I think that even something as simple as a half-transparent dashed line leading from one balloon to the next would've made it easier to read.

I agree that the speech balloons* are a little... off. They don't seem like they fit in the comic exactly.

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you give a precise description like I did with the opacity or a specific example like I did with the sequence?

[SteveMB]

This should not be set up as an oots/erfworld comparison though. Those are forbidden. Rather the poll should be "do you find Erfworld's speech balloons hard to follow? Yes/no/undecided". It would make more sense for voting anyway

Perhaps we need a new thread to make sure the useful feedback doesn't get lost because of that problem with this one....

[Tividar's Thorn]

I really think that they are both pretty easy to follow. I've read it back a few times just because I think it's such an excellent comic.

[Scientivore]

*not bubbles. Calling them bubbles is a no-no.

I looked for a controversy on bubbles vs. balloons. At first I failed to find one; they appear to be freely interchangeable terms. I finally managed to find one man with a *NSFW* (racial slur) strong opinion. I agree completely with the footnote to this blog entry:

Anyway, I'm enough of a Wittgensteinian to feel that "correctness" in language is largely (not solely) a matter of social context: if everyone understands me when I say "speech bubble", and nobody's upset by it, and if "speech bubble" and "speech balloon" are as a matter of fact used interchangeably, then they mean the same thing and it's just a matter of personal preference which one you use. And I prefer "bubble", for no reason I can articulate.

In other news, Balloonist looks interesting. So, I made a thread on the Webcomics board to expand the discussion beyond Erfworld.

[Wooter]

Hey, I was just worried that John Byrne would come here and yell at you. He's crazy like that. I assume that he google "speech bubble" and rants directy to every person who uses the phrase. Because he is an evil, evil man.

Also, I do not know what makes the speech bubloons* look od to me, they just do. Maybe because they look so different from the art? I don't know.

*There, a fitting compromise that will not make a crazy man use the n-word.

[Maltrich]

I like the borderless speech balloons, and the joke in #6 seemed obvious to me. I'm not sure Wanda's looking up at all, though. I always read it as her, with her back to Bogroll, shouting "crap" for reasons irrelevant to the rest of the strip, and her shout comedically coincides with the dwagon dwopping one on the Twoll.