[Dreamscarred Press] Announcing: Airships

[stack]

I think it would complicate my spreadsheet.

[pawsplay]

I was definitely thinking in terms of themes. Most of the existing types would be "reactors," I guess. The anti-grav template would go under a "levitational" type. Props and turbines would still be piloting aids but you could have a "mechanical type" if your airship is primarily moved by mechanical action.

I think it would complicate my spreadsheet.

I feel your pain.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I can't find it right now, but there is also a mythic spell intended to make floating cities. I'll find it later, but it was intended for collaborative groups of wizards to power.

Edit: Found it, Imbue With Flight. For some reason its under 3rd party publishing, but its in Mythic Origins. A toned-down version of the magic the Shory used to make flying cities, but with eight uses of Mythic Power (which can be shared), it could give a Colossal object a fly speed of 40 (average), under one caster's control, using his Fly skill.

[stack]

Two questions: do altitude cap increases stack?

When I get my spreadsheet in a form someone other than me could use, should I put it online and post a link?

[pawsplay]

Two questions: do altitude cap increases stack?

High Flying
Benefit: The first time this template is applied to an airship, the vessel'’s maximum cruising altitude
is increased to 1,500 feet. The template may be applied more than once, but subsequent applications,
while costing the same and reducing the speed and maneuverability of the vessel, only increase the
cruising altitude by 250 feet.

So, yes.

[stack]

I meant between high flying, air elemental engines, etc.

Also, thoughts on the spreadsheet question?

[pawsplay]

I meant between high flying, air elemental engines, etc.

As written, the air elemental engine and the high flying adjustments don't stack. I think that should probably be changed.

Also, thoughts on the spreadsheet question?

You might ask Andreas about that.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I will say that 500 feet seems really low as a maximum height. I mean, that's well below the cloud layer most of the time, which is one of the instantly recognizable visuals associated with airships: a majestic ship emerging from the clouds. Also rules out mountaintop communities from most airship services. I mean, its not even enough to get altitude sickness (5,000 feet), which I would think would be equivalent to seasickness in airmen.

[Milo v3]

Going to watch this, even though I've never seen an airship system I've liked. Though, the playtest document seems to crash each time I attempt to go into viewing mode. Hopefully there will be some way to get elementals to be both power-sources and pilots simultaneously.

If they have Fantasy Physics and Fantasy Engineering as skills, I'm sold.

I think that'd be covered by Knowledge (Engineering).

EDIT: Just skimming, but I am really hoping that some engines can ignore the 500 ft. height thing, since I'm struggling to see how it would effect multiple engine types.

2 What's with the "No airship can travel at more than 200 mph." thing?

3 Profession (Airship Sailor), Profession (Airship Engineer), Profession (Airship Navigator), Profession (Airship Pilot), etc.. Really? They're so... niche.... painfully niche.

4 IMO, you should abstract the fuel as part of the engine.

5 Is there going to be a way to extrapolate in other materials for hulls?

6 Shouldn't crystal be equal in cost to iron, according to the psionics rules?

7 Add in psychic engines.

8 Would lightning elementals and plasma elementals (wyrd's or something, forget their name) use the air or fire elemental engine rules?

9 I'd like to suggest a non-evil version of the vampiric engine for celestials and celestial-to-be petitioners to use, where the fuel has to be willing.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Actually, yeah. I thought there should be all sorts of aligned engines; maybe even a Djinni engine. Entropic engines for pirates, Axiomatic engines that prevent their ships from smuggling, Celestial engines that can only do charitable missions. Also, am I the only one that thinks the Elemental engines are just a tad evil...?

[stack]

I can see speed limits for certain types of airship. A semi-rigid would tear itself apart going at half that speed. The altitude restrictions could use some modification, I agree.

pawsplay - I'll look for Andreas' contact info of the site I guess.

[Milo v3]

Also, am I the only one that thinks the Elemental engines are just a tad evil...?

Just use Planar Ally rather than Planar Binding, makes it a service rather than servitude.

[pawsplay]

The hit points and hardness of common materials were created by reverse-engineering from the UC vehicles rules. The unusual materials I basically estimated in relation to the common materials. You can always do the same! If there are some specific materials you think should be included, let me know. I'm also open to ideas for enhancing existing options so they are more distinctive.

The crystal hull, as currently written, is probably not exactly like the alchemically treated crystal that can be used in place of metal in weapons, although it is probably not entirely dissimilar, either. I'll look at that again; maybe it should be the same.

I can see speed limits for certain types of airship. A semi-rigid would tear itself apart going at half that speed. The altitude restrictions could use some modification, I agree.

It's an area where the source material provided a simple and usable limitation. It does make sense for the rigging and lift options to factor into that. In the case of more aerodynamic airships, it may be a non-issue if I change acceleration to a ratio rather than an arithmetic difference. I am increasingly inclined to do that, even with the challenges it presented during development.

[Milo v3]

Well from Ultimate Equipments material list your missing: Silver (or alchemical silver), Blood Crystal, Cold Iron, Darkwood, Elysian Bronze, Fire-Forged Steel, Frost-Forged Steel, Greenwood, Griffon mane (even though it wouldn't be suitable for hull material, it would be perfect material for magic sails), Living steel, whip wood, and wyrwood.

[pawsplay]

Obviously, alchemical silver would come in handy if you needed to ram a giant werewolf.

[Prime32]

Obviously, alchemical silver would come in handy if you needed to ram a giant werewolf.

...I want to play in this campaign.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I was thinking about how I'd insert airships into the campaign I have been working on, and I realized that it would be really fun to have Thriae and Formian (B4 monsters) hive-ships. Would have to do some finagling with crew, but...

[pawsplay]

Okay, formian hive-engines are going in as a possible power source.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I was thinking of a crew that all shared the Formian's hive mind. Would make command much easier...

[Ironsides]

One thing I looked at changing was going from (power factors - tons) to (power factors/tons) as the basis for acceleration. I ended up scrapping that idea because it required a lot of other changes. It also meant that, at the top end, I had math like 75,000 power factors divided by 500 tons. However, one thing I'm hearing is that many people are wanting smaller, fast ships to be somewhat more affordable. That may be one way of tackling that. It probably won't affect PCs too much if the cost of the very largest airships goes up somewhat, by compensation. How do you all feel about division, rather than subtraction? It also adds a splash of, ahem, realism. (Yes, I know we're talking about ships that fly.)

I like realism but to me Simplicity>Realism. D20 can simulate stuff pretty well but it isn't a computer program, people are the ones who have to manually crunch the numbers it is way to easy to over complicate stuff in d20.

[(Un)Inspired]

Obviously, alchemical silver would come in handy if you needed to ram a giant werewolf.

Yes! Like, a Godzilla sized werewolf? Didn't Rampage have one of those? What a cool idea.

There needs to be monsters stated up in this guide for airships to fight.

[The Glyphstone]

Yes! Like, a Godzilla sized werewolf? Didn't Rampage have one of those? What a cool idea.

There needs to be monsters stated up in this guide for airships to fight.

Storm/Cloud Giant sky chariots pulled by Rocs...

[stack]

Too much complexity added to a complex rule-set is a significant danger to watch out for. With that said, I am going to propose complications!

Regarding max speed, it seems certain components should have max speeds, while the bonuses from others should not apply beyond certain thresholds. Airoars and sails shouldn't be doing anything if your engines cruise you along at 150 mph. No semi-rigid dirigible should be going over 100 or so (I see a reference to the Hindenburg doing 84 mph, which would apply to rigid dirigibles)

Found this online: "The highest speed officially measured for an airship, according to the Federation Aeronautique Internationale (FAI), is 112 km/h (69.6 mph), by Steve Fossett (USA) flying a Zeppelin Luftshifftechnik LZ N07-100 airship on 27 October 2004 over Friedrichshafen, Germany. The large rigid airships built by the USA and Germany in the 1920s and 30s could reach higher speeds (up to 140 km/h or 87 mph according to some sources), but these were never officially measured to FAI standards."

Maybe just cap dirigibles at 100 mph and have sails/oars stop helping above X mph?

[stack]

I don't see the listings for the actual size of the shipboard weapons in terms of tonnage, where is it?

[(Un)Inspired]

Storm/Cloud Giant sky chariots pulled by Rocs...

That does sound awesome but I'd love to see entirely new creatures that one might encounter while flying an airship.

Things like Skybwhales and air sharks and skarracuda (sky-barracuda). Ozone Elementals, stratosphere dragons, stuff like that.

[stack]

Andreas gave me the green light on the spreadsheet...

Now I have to finish the blasted thing.

[pawsplay]

Very cool.

[stack]

I don't see the listings for the actual size of the shipboard weapons in terms of tonnage, where is it?

This listed somewhere in the doc, or do we just assume based on size?

[pawsplay]

I don't see the listings for the actual size of the shipboard weapons in terms of tonnage, where is it?

This listed somewhere in the doc, or do we just assume based on size?

bottom of page 107

[stack]

Spoiler: Page 107

Show

which non-airship targets may well take cover. Note that a weapon' s arc of fire is not a function of its type, but of how it is mounted (see below).
Proficiency: Siege engines are exotic weapons. A creature with the Siege Engineer feat is proficient with all siege engines, including siege firearms. A creature that is proficient in firearms is also proficient in siege firearms, but not other siege engines.
Crew: The sheer size of a siege engine often necessitates a crew for its use. One person of that crew is the crew leader. Usually the crew leader targets or controls the movement of a siege engine; sometimes the crew leader does both. Often the crew leader is required to take actions and make specific checks in order for a siege engine to function. The rest of the crew members are required to spend actions and make checks in order for a siege engine to function.
Magical and Masterwork Siege Engines: Siege engines can be masterwork, increasing their Craft DC by 5 and costing an additional 300 gp. A masterwork siege engine can be enchanted at twice the cost for a normal magical weapon. The enhancement bonus of a siege engine applies on attack rolls and targeting checks (in the case of indirect ranged siege engines), and in the case of magical spell engines, the enhancement bonus also applies on damage rolls.
Defense and Hit Points: All siege engines are objects. A siege engine has a Dexterity of 0 (–5 penalty) and a further penalty based on its size. Each type of siege engine has its own hardness and hit points.
Moving Siege Engines: Airship weapons must be disassembled to be moved. Otherwise, they move with the ship to which they are mounted.
Ranged Attacks: Unlike normal ranged weapons, siege engines do not deal half damage when attacking objects.
Critical Hits: When a direct-fire siege engine or a close assault siege engine scores a critical hit, it confirms the critical and deals critical hit damage just like any other weapon. If an indirect-fire ranged siege engine rolls a natural 20 on its targeting check, it can also score a critical hit. The crew leader must re-roll the targeting check to confirm the critical. If the confirmation targeting check is successful, the attack is a critical hit, and the siege engine multiplies its damage by its critical multiplier. Unlike normal attacks, siege engines attacks can deal critical hit damage to objects. Siege engines do not gain the benefit of critical feats the crew or the crew leader may have. Critical hits against airships are handled differently; see the Aerial Combat chapter.
Mishaps and Misfires: Rolling a natural 1 on an attack roll or a targeting check made by an indirect-fire ranged siege engine produces a mishap. Usually, a mishap applies the broken condition. A non-firearm siege engine with the broken condition takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, targeting checks, and damage rolls. It also moves at half its normal speed.
If the creature that serves as crew leader has the Siege Engineer feat, that creature does not generate a mishap on a natural 1 when firing the siege engine.
Firearm siege weapons do not gain a mishap on a natural 1, but instead have a misfire value, like other firearms do. An attack roll or targeting check that falls within the misfire range causes the firearm siege engine to misfire. A misfire always misses, and applies the broken condition to the siege engine firearm. A firearm siege weapon with the broken condition takes all of the penalties and limitations that non-firearm siege engines do, and the misfire range of the firearm siege engine is increased by 4. If the firearm siege engine already has the broken condition when it misfires, it explodes. When a firearm siege engine explodes, it deals its damage to all creatures within a blast range (those within the blast

Where?