El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

On the other, is that kind of inequality really good for a relationship?

But she already knew going in that he was way more "powerful" in a martial arts sense than she is. This is a guy that will parkour walls to return a cellphone rather than walk around three students. He also took down a goo monster. Yes, his power level increases when he becomes Cheerleadra, but the imbalance existed before she knew his secret (she was just not aware of the size of the differential), so she is presumably fine with it.

Also, I disagree about this inequality being at all relevant to the relationship, but I have little to back it up other than my gut feeling, so feel free to consider it my subjective opinion, and therefore to ignore it.

Grey Wolf

[Lizard Lord]

Did we miss a panel where they both took cover or did Elliot just change into Cheerleadra in the wide open where anyone could see?

I mean I suppose he didn't look anything like Elliot or Ellen at the time, (or like anyone else for that matter) so I suppose it would be fine if he did as long as he doesn't use that particular form again.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Did we miss a panel where they both took cover or did Elliot just change into Cheerleadra in the wide open where anyone could see?

He did check out the area around her before he transformed, so it might be that the coast was clear enough. But as you yourself point out, it's not like she can be recognised as Elliot in her current form - it makes the buxom short girl shape the fourth "secret" personality of Cheerleadra.

Interesting that he can change from an altered shape to Cheerleadra, when she cannot change from Cheerleadra to anything other than Elliot and the three designated secret personalities, though. Nevermind, I think that's not actually true - he just didn't want to transform back to Elliot in front of Justin's Ex.

Grey "yes, I pretty much randomly picked the pronoun each time, just like I do with V" Wolf

[Douglas]

Interesting that he can change from an altered shape to Cheerleadra, when she cannot change from Cheerleadra to anything other than Elliot and the three designated secret personalities, though. Nevermind, I think that's not actually true - he just didn't want to transform back to Elliot in front of Justin's Ex.

I'm having trouble finding the specific strip now, but I do remember Elliot explicitly stating that limitation, I think in conversation with Ellen.

Also, one hell of a first date.

I'm wondering what she'll tell Liz about it.

Ashley: Best! First date! Ever!!!!!!
Liz: Really? What happened?
Ashley: Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...................... *stares blankly while trying to figure out what non-secret thing she could possibly play up as worth that exclamation*

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm having trouble finding the specific strip now, but I do remember Elliot explicitly stating that limitation, I think in conversation with Ellen.

Oh, so maybe I didn't imagine it? To the archives!

...

Found it. So yes, I'll restate: Interesting that he can change from an altered shape to Cheerleadra, when she cannot change from Cheerleadra to anything other than Elliot and the three designated secret personalities.

Grey Wolf

[Qwertystop]

Most likely reasoning: Turning to Cheerleadra changes his abilities. The same as how he can't change to any of the alter-egos without going super first. Elliot has a turn-into-a-girl spell and a turn-into-Cheerleadra spell. Cheer then has turning back into Elliot (which may or may not be a spell - we don't know if Cheerleadra is an enchantment or a changed default) and the alter-egos.

[malloyd]

He did check out the area around her before he transformed, so it might be that the coast was clear enough. But as you yourself point out, it's not like she can be recognised as Elliot in her current form - it makes the buxom short girl shape the fourth "secret" personality of Cheerleadra.

In a more conventional superhero comic, this might also have marked Ashley as a close enough friend to be a target for Cheerleadra's enemies. But in this setting I don't think she has any serious ones. Harassment by paranormal enthusiasts is probably about the worse she is at risk of.

[The Mormegil]

Well there goes all pretense of secrecy. I think Elliot prefers that anyway.

Also, one hell of a first date.

Ashley's reaction to this will be very interesting. On the one hand, Elliot is literally an embodiment of a fantasy she's had since she was a child, and also a superhero. On the other, is that kind of inequality really good for a relationship? Compare with Susan, who found herself not ready to be involved with Elliot even knowing of his powers. I wonder if Dan will address this, or if it'll just be "best boyfriend ever!"

I didn't think of that, but it's true. :( Now I want Ashley to get a mark.

[malloyd]

I didn't think of that, but it's true. :( Now I want Ashley to get a mark.

Depends on the inequality. "My date is physically stronger than me" isn't usually something women have a problem with. Being outclassed in everything would be more iffy, but they seem pretty even in brains or social skills.

[Rater202]

Equality is about more than ability.

There's a joke about a woman who finds a bottle with a genie inside, and it's the benevolent kind, and eventually the woman falls in genuine love with the genie, and the genie falls in genuine love with the woman, and the woman starts plotting ways to free the genie so that they can have an equal relationship.(That's not the joke. I'm not 100% sure the actual joke part is board safe)

Going by ability, there's no way that's an equal relationship, but as far as the couple is concerned, they'll be equal as soon as the genie is free.

Elliot doen'st seem like the kind of guy who plots to make all of the decisions, nor the kind of guy who deliberately leaves decisions for his partner to do.

Since Ashley has a similar personality to Elliot, well, she's not likely to deliberately try and make all of the decisions or foster decision making of onto her partner.

[Landis963]

There's a joke about a woman who finds a bottle with a genie inside, and it's the benevolent kind, and eventually the woman falls in genuine love with the genie, and the genie falls in genuine love with the woman, and the woman starts plotting ways to free the genie so that they can have an equal relationship.(That's not the joke. I'm not 100% sure the actual joke part is board safe)

It's not. Foglio adapted it into one of his dirty comics, under the name of "Wish Fulfillment." (hur hur hur)

[The Mormegil]

But she already knew going in that he was way more "powerful" in a martial arts sense than she is. This is a guy that will parkour walls to return a cellphone rather than walk around three students. He also took down a goo monster. Yes, his power level increases when he becomes Cheerleadra, but the imbalance existed before she knew his secret (she was just not aware of the size of the differential), so she is presumably fine with it.

Also, I disagree about this inequality being at all relevant to the relationship, but I have little to back it up other than my gut feeling, so feel free to consider it my subjective opinion, and therefore to ignore it.

Grey Wolf

Depends on the inequality. "My date is physically stronger than me" isn't usually something women have a problem with. Being outclassed in everything would be more iffy, but they seem pretty even in brains or social skills.

I'm not thinking about combat abilities, I'm thinking about awesomeness.

"My partner has all the cool transformation stuff I always dreamed of, and is a superhero. I dance soccer."

[Rater202]

I'm not thinking about combat abilities, I'm thinking about awesomeness.

"My partner has all the cool transformation stuff I always dreamed of, and is a superhero. I dance soccer."

Yeah... There's no way she's not getting at least a watch at some point.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Did we miss a panel where they both took cover or did Elliot just change into Cheerleadra in the wide open where anyone could see?

And now we have our answer: she did change in the middle of an open walkway, in plain sight of the surrounding mall-goers.

Grey Wolf

[halfeye]

And now we have our answer: she did change in the middle of an open walkway, in plain sight of the surrounding mall-goers.

Grey Wolf

Which makes Ashley a target for Cheerleadra haters, or fans, or whoever. Sounds like a bad plan to me.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Which makes Ashley a target for Cheerleadra haters, or fans, or whoever. Sounds like a bad plan to me.

Remember, Cheerleadra transformations come with in-built "hardcore identity protection" (link) - all cameras in the vicinity will not work, and for all we know the magic may go as far as erasing memories; anyone that doesn't already know who Ashley is will be unable to photograph her for a while, and may be unable to remember much of her face either.

Edit: wait, that might be Noah's spell. Sorry. I still wouldn't be surprised if Cheerleadra comes with a similar security feature.

That said, I disagree it's a bad plan because clearly there is no plan to be good or bad: Elliot is being impulsive.

Grey Wolf

[Silva Stormrage]

Ya, Elliot is just being super impulsive and I think at least someone in the mall might just backtrace the footage of Ashley today and notice that Elliot == Cheerledra.

From the camera's point of view.
Cheerledra is Girl-Elliot who was with Ashley
Go back to the clothing store
Find them leaving the bookstore
Notice them leaving a blind spot
Notice that Elliot is the one who ENTERS the blindspot and he never comes out and they can't find him again

Not 100% ironclad but close enough for anyone at the Mall with access to that stuff.

Or the government could get involved but hey speculation

[Calemyr]

Ya, Elliot is just being super impulsive and I think at least someone in the mall might just backtrace the footage of Ashley today and notice that Elliot == Cheerledra.

From the camera's point of view.
Cheerledra is Girl-Elliot who was with Ashley
Go back to the clothing store
Find them leaving the bookstore
Notice them leaving a blind spot
Notice that Elliot is the one who ENTERS the blindspot and he never comes out and they can't find him again

Not 100% ironclad but close enough for anyone at the Mall with access to that stuff.

Or the government could get involved but hey speculation

True, but if the only gumshoes gutsy enough to piece it together are Ellen and Nanase. There's a path that leads back to Elliot, but it takes some unconventional thinking to reach it.

[Lizard Lord]

The in-comic supernatural detectives (unless Charlotte and Diane now count, which I suppose they might) and the branch of the U.S. government that deals with this stuff is already aware that Elliot=Cheerleadra.

[Silva Stormrage]

The in-comic supernatural detectives (unless Charlotte and Diane now count, which I suppose they might) and the branch of the U.S. government that deals with this stuff is already aware that Elliot=Cheerleadra.

Oh ya but the average mall security guard isn't and they might leak it to the general public is what I was saying.

[malloyd]

Ya, Elliot is just being super impulsive and I think at least someone in the mall might just backtrace the footage of Ashley today and notice that Elliot == Cheerledra.

Theoretically maybe. But I'm not sure all that is actually accessible to mall security (in store security cameras may well be under the control of the individual store managers), and you'd have to go through a lot of footage. For something that's not a crime - which is after all presumably what we are paying you to look for. And if you did trace Cheerledra, well, that information has no usefulness to the mall management, and might very well expose them to some sort of liability should you, say, reveal her identity and it lead to somebody harassing her. Why are we letting you spend all those working hours on this again?

[Calemyr]

Is Moperville large enough to have two "malls"? It's big enough for two schools, so I'm not sure. Given that it took Ellen and Nanase to solve the mystery of the Mall Goblin, I don't really think mall security is good enough to find their own handquarters, much less trace a camera-glitching superhero back to a makeout booth changing room in a store. Everyone else who was watching at the time saw some top-heavy short girl turn into Cheerleadra, not Elliot.

I'm not saying that mall security is actually bad, per se. Just not imaginative. Many of the answers to the mysteries of Moperville require the application of facts the public has trouble accepting, much less embracing. Like magic being real, elven looking immortals who prefer suicide to boredom, humans turning into monsters to escape mortality, shape-shifting aliens and their hybrid progeny, and extra planar "space whales" that eat magical energy to keep the flow of the world in balance. If you don't accept these things as fundamental facts of life, most of the weird stuff that happens in Moperville simply cannot be solved.

[Lissou]

I'm pretty sure Cheerleadra is NOT camera-glitching. The first time she appeared, she had to fly the scene because she looked like Ellen so she couldn't afford to be filmed up-close. I think her secret identities are her "privacy setting" while Noah's is the glitching.

[Calemyr]

I'm pretty sure Cheerleadra is NOT camera-glitching. The first time she appeared, she had to fly the scene because she looked like Ellen so she couldn't afford to be filmed up-close. I think her secret identities are her "privacy setting" while Noah's is the glitching.

Fair point. I think I did get them mixed up. Still, it's Sabotage Girl that they saw turn into Cheerleadra. How many people are going to track it back further in the first place?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Still, it's Sabotage Girl that they saw turn into Cheerleadra.

Not even that. I mean, yes, Sabotage Girl was attracting many stares (unclear how many even looked at her face on those cases, though), but I would guess the vast majority of on-lookers only started watching Cheerleadra when she turned on the light show. By that point, they had missed what she looked like beforehand.

Grey Wolf

[Lizard Lord]

In response to the commentary of the current NPS comic; Why would the prequels be what makes Darth Vader irredeemable? In a New Hope he BLEW UP AN INHABITED PLANET! That's genocide yo'. That's small potatoes to everything evil he did in the prequels combined.

[Rater202]

In response to the commentary of the current NPS comic; Why would the prequels be what makes Darth Vader irredeemable? In a New Hope he BLEW UP AN INHABITED PLANET! That's genocide yo'. That's small potatoes to everything evil he did in the prequels combined.

I'm pretty sure it was the other guy who blew up the planet, so Vader is only guilty becuase he didn't stop him.

In the Star Wars Prequels, a not evil Anakin exterminated a large number of sand people, even the children, and then an evil but not yet Vader later murder a large number of Jedi Younglings in cold blood because Palpatine said so.(As opposed to doing the less evil and more intelligent thing and brainwash and educate them so that they can be raised as dark side force users employed as elite soldiers for the Empire)

Being personally responsible for the murder of children is, while from a practical stand point, a lesser crime than deliberately not stopping a planet's destruction, from a emotional perspective, Anakin being personally responsible for the deaths of the children is worse than him being indirectly responsible for the greater tragedy.

Also, The Original Trilogy is ultimately about Vader's redemption, while the Prequels were about Anakin's Fall, so the narrative will treat his crimes differently, and a different narrative treatment will color the views of the audience.

[Douglas]

Update.

Spoiler

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If I'm interpreting this dialogue correctly, the cloaked figure is seeking Elliot only as a means to finding someone else - someone female that Elliot knows.

Maybe it's really looking for Cheerleadra?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Update.

Spoiler

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If I'm interpreting this dialogue correctly, the cloaked figure is seeking Elliot only as a means to finding someone else - someone female that Elliot knows.

Maybe it's really looking for Cheerleadra?

Spoiler: Update

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The other clocked figure was said to sound female, so maybe this one's looking for the other one? There was speculation early on that the female one was the griffin Elliot help with directions - and this one, with it's bifurcated scorpion-like tale, is quite likely NOT a griffin, I think.

Grey Wolf

[Lissou]

Spoiler

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Yeah, my guess is it's looking for the Griffin. Or possibly for Ellen. Lots of people seem to be after her.