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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Volthawk View Post
    So I'm looking at the Skitarii codex, and what's the point of transuranic arquebuses?
    Basically? There isn't one. They don't really do anything very well, especially considering their hefty cost, and they synergise somewhere between poorly and not at all with the basic weapons of the units that can take them. Even within the Skitarii book if you want snipers you're better off with Dragoons using Radium Jezzails and, as you pointed out, Arc Rifles handily outperform the Arquebus in almost all other circumstances for less points.

    About the only thing I can say about the thing is at least it takes some degree of advantage of the Skitarii having Relentless, not that that makes it any less useless as an option.
    Last edited by DaedalusMkV; 2015-04-29 at 02:07 AM.
    Avatar by the wonderful SubLimePie. Former avatar by Andraste.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Regarding the fact that Eldar Missile Launchers now all come with skyshot missiles as standard, rather than only war walkers getting the option, and having to pay for it too - as was the case in the old codex - is this likely to make much of a difference to the Eldar anti-air meta?
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Building on a Budget: Tau

    Last time, we looked at Space Marines, the eponymous poster-children of 40K, who, weirdly enough, ended up with Ultramarines being the most cost-effective choice, since Marneus Calgar is just so freakin' effective for his price point, where, with 40 Tactical Marines on board, his ability to use Tactical Doctrine twice, is actually pretty good. So, without further ado, let's go with the next most popular army - that isn't Eldar - Tau.

    Rule #1; The goal is to get to 1750/1850 as cheaply as possible, while
    #2; Not being bad.

    Intentionally adding on wargear to inflate points costs is one of the hallmarks of being bad. We're not doing that.

    Spoiler: List Building Process
    Show
    First up, let's talk about the fact that Tau are one of the few remaining armies in the range to have a Battleforce. 12 Fire Warriors, 3 Crisis Suits, 3 Stealth Suits and a Piranha, and eight stand-alone Gun Drones. Between the Stealth Suits and the Piranha, one is at like a 50% discount, and the other is free, so, it actually is worth discussing because free stuff shoots efficiency through the roof. It just depends on whether or not it's actually good, because Rule #2. Each Crisis Suit comes with one of each weapon, and two Burst Cannons. Effectively giving us three of each special weapon per box, and six Burst Cannons. Knowing that as long as you don't take Shas'vre upgrades, there's no difference at all between Suits' points costs; One, two or three, doesn't matter. But, I do want to say that Suits are customisable, and buying a box of three, can potentially give us a unit of two, and a unit of one. Depending on what we need.

    But, as with most lists, we need to start with our Warlord. Depending on what your Warlord can do (with or without a fixed Trait), often determines what kind of army you're going to want to build, and, since we're not bad, we'll also want to put our Warlord in a 'retinue unit', to make a star unit to build our list around. As we've learned, the most efficient models are Infantry models that cost a lot of points (this is when WHFB players laugh at 40K players, because WHFB allows for several Infantry models in an army each costing several hundred points each).

    (0.33) Commander Farsight
    (0.31) Commander Shadowsun

    The two most expensive characters in the book. Compared to Calgar's 0.11, that's really bad. Especially as that's Shadowsun with all her Drones - which is a waste of points (Rule 2). Let's see who else we can get...

    (0.31) Commander; C&C Node, MS3, Iridium - 145 Points

    Already, the non-Unique Commander - insofar as Signature Systems go - is more efficient than either of the Tau Uniques. Keeping in mind that this particular Commander doesn't ever really use his BS5, seeing as how he uses his Shooting Phase to...Well, do nothing, really. Still, after the above, we only start adding more wargear, while his price cost remains the same, so that's really efficient. Good job, Commander! Anything we add to him later is just going to make him better.

    Next, we need Troops. Kroot are 6-point models with a bad save. Horde-style units are never going to be efficient. The best you can do is add Sniper Rounds, but that only adds one point. Compared to a Fire Warrior's 9. But if we quickly look...

    Fire Warriors (x12) - 108 Points
    Kroot (x16) - 96 Points

    You can add Sniper Rounds if you want, for 112 Points. But, then, also recall that each Fire Warrior box comes with a pair of Gun Drones. But the efficiency difference is so minimal that it doesn't really make a difference, price- or points-wise. But, Fire Warriors are excellent units, and you really shouldn't need more than one unit of Infiltrating Kroot, just to block stuff that comes your way. Tau really don't want to be in Assault, so any Infiltrate/Scout-blocking that you can do, you should do.

    (0.51) Fire Warriors (x12) - 108 Points
    (0.57) Kroot (x16) - 96 Points


    Yuck. Tactical Marines, these ain't. Anyway, 1750+, so...

    (0.51) Fire Warriors (x12) - 108 Points
    (0.51) Fire Warriors (x12) - 108 Points


    Those efficiency ratings are fair garbage. Hopefully other slots make up for that. That's all our Troops taken care of, with pretty much anti-Infantry taken care of. Though we don't have any AP2 weapons to kill heavy Infantry, and we don't have anything that even remotely scratches a moderately tough Vehicle. Remembering that Space Marines in the same cost-efficiency boat as you, are fielding a Land Raider or Centurions.

    Crisis Shas'ui; Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle - 52 Points

    That looks pretty bad. Multiplied by 3 gives 156 Points, at 0.51. That's as bad as your Troops units! That said, it's no worse than your Fire Warriors, either. So, in the long run, you don't actually save any money by playing Farsight Enclaves and not taking Fire Warriors - but most FE armies want to use Fire Warriors anyway - so, whatever you want. But, that's really bad. Target Locks don't do what you think they do. You can 'waste' the five Points on a Target Lock if you really, really wanted to. Or you can stack wargear, and break Rule #2. But you're better of with two units of two and one, respectively, if you're playing FE. If you're not playing Farsight...

    (0.49) XV104 Riptide; Ion Accelerator - 185 Points

    Always upgrade to the Plasma Rifle or Fusion Blaster. They're free, and both are what you need. Anyway, whatever wargear you can put on Crisis Suits, you can also put on Riptides - probably for better effect, too. Crisis Suits, are to Tau as Vanguard are to Space Marines. You can hyper-inflate their points cost to ludicrous amounts if you really try, but it's not really worth it. But, really, as we found with Space Marine Land Raiders, Riptides are actually 'cheap' because they accelerate your points cost better.

    (0.49) XV104 Riptide; Ion Accelerator - 185 Points
    (0.49) XV104 Riptide; Ion Accelerator - 185 Points


    If you take one, why not take two?
    All Fast Attack units are terrible. Everything is either dirt cheap, or crap - the Fliers. So let's move straight to Heavy.

    (0.82) Broadside Shas'ui - 90 Points
    Twin-Linked High-Yield Missile Pod, Twin-Linked Plasma Rifles, Velocity Tracker

    Doesn't look good, does it?

    (0.73) Sky Ray - 115 Points

    Not much better, is it? Maybe we should go for that third Riptide? Or maybe a dedicated unit of Skyfiring Crisis Suits?

    Crisis Shas'ui; Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Velocity Tracker - 72 Points

    x3 = (0.37) 216 Points

    Recap.

    (0.31) Commander; C&C Node, MS3, Iridium - 145 Points

    (0.51) Fire Warriors (x12) - 108 Points
    (0.51) Fire Warriors (x12) - 108 Points
    (0.51) Fire Warriors (x12) - 108 Points
    (0.57) Kroot (x16) - 96 Points

    (0.37) XV8 Crisis Team (x3); Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Velocity Tracker - 216 Points
    (0.49) XV104 Riptide; Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Ion Accelerator - 185 Points
    (0.49) XV104 Riptide; Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Ion Accelerator - 185 Points

    1151 Points? Is that all. We're barely halfway done! But Heavy and Fast slots are killer on the wallet. So, we need more Elites choices. We can't do that Commander again, since Signature Systems are unique per army. But there's still the PENchip to take, and there's not really any Ignores Cover in the army yet, and that's a real problem, especially for Tau who wont do a whole lot of Assaulting.

    (0.34) Commander; Plasma Rifle, AFP, PENchip - 145 Points

    That's not better than Shadowsun or Farsight. Shadowsun is pretty cool, granted. But she doesn't have a real Invulnerable save, and her 'retinue unit' of Stealth Suits actually kind of suck. Farsight, has a good Warlord Trait, and he enables up to seven more Crisis Suits, and when you start stacking wargear onto Crisis Suits, the 'cheaper' they actually get. Kind of. By now you should know how the 'logic' of these exercises work.

    (0.33) Commander Farsight - 165 Points
    XV8 Crisis Bodyguard Team (x6) - 372 Points
    x2; Flamer, Fusion Blaster, Target Lock
    x1; Flamer, Fusion Blaster, Target Lock, PENchip
    x3; Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle


    Total: 1688 Points. By now you also have three boxes of Crisis Suits, and three boxes of Fire Warriors, giving you a total of 24 Gun Drones that you don't know what to do with, and our original Commander still doesn't have any weapons. Would it be better to give him a Drone Controller, and sit in a unit of 12 Gun Drones at BS5 that Ignore Cover? You should maybe swap the C&C Node over to the Farsight Bomb, since Gun Drones already have Twin-Linked weapons. Yeah, let's do that. Sure, you could put the Commander in the Farsight Bomb as well, but that seems boring, and puts all your eggs in one basket. Does Farsight and six of his friends really need the extra help?

    Using our massive stack of extra Crisis Suit weapons couldn't hurt either. Fix up some extreme problems with our list-building.


    So, at the end of our 'building on a budget', what'd we get?

    Spoiler: Tau Empire, CAD
    Show
    (0.33) (W) Commander Farsight - 165 Points
    (0.37) Commander; Flamer, VRT, Drone Controller, MS3, Iridium - 148 Points

    (0.41) XV8 Crisis Bodyguard Team (x6) - 392 Points
    x3; Plasma Rifle, Plasma Rifle
    x2; Fusion Blaster, Fusion Blaster, Target Lock
    x1; Flamer, Flamer, C&C Node, PENchip

    (0.51) Fire Warriors (x12) - 108 Points
    (0.51) Fire Warriors (x12) - 108 Points
    (0.51) Fire Warriors (x12) - 108 Points
    (0.57) Kroot (x16) - 96 Points

    (0.37) XV8 Crisis Team (x3); Missile Pod, Missile Pod, Velocity Tracker - 216 Points
    (0.49) XV104 Riptide; Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Ion Accelerator - 185 Points
    (0.49) XV104 Riptide; Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Ion Accelerator - 185 Points

    (Free) Drone Squadron (x10) - 140 Points

    Total: 1851. Drop a Flamer, somewhere?


    $739. Efficiency of 0.40 per point, $AUD. Skew lower if your currency is worth more, skew higher if your currency is worth less, obviously. While the Space Marines are at a better rating of 0.35 per point, IMO, the Tau have a much better army list at 'only' ~$100 more.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2015-04-29 at 06:41 AM.
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    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
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    Cheesegear is awesome

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    So, our escalation challenge has moved to 1k this week, time for a rematch with the Harlequin player.

    Spoiler: Iron Warriors
    Show

    125 - Warpsmith, Aura of Dark Glory
    210 - 10x CSM, 2x Plasma, Melta bombs, Rhino
    138 - 6x CSM, 1x Melta, Melta Bombs, Rhino

    145 - Vindicator, Daemonic possession, Combi Bolter, Dozer Blade
    145 - Vindicator, Daemonic possession, Combi Bolter, Dozer Blade
    234 - 3x Obliterators, Mark of Tzeentch

    It's not overly imaginative, but there it is. Roughly the same list as before, but lost the havok launchers from the rhinos and gained 3 heavy supports. The reason for MoT instead of MoN is both a fluff reason (I play Tzeentch and dislike Nurgle) and the fact that my meta is full of both plasma (ravenwing all with plasma and black knights (?) all with twin linked plasma) along with grav spam white scar bikers, neither of which care about T5. The vindicators are not optimal, but a) this list was originally concieved when we had 2 Necron players and b) it fits the Iron Warriors theme.


    Vs.

    Spoiler: Harlequins & Dark Eldar
    Show

    Harlequins detatchment

    6x Troupers
    6x Troupers
    6x Troupers

    2x Jetbikes
    2x Jetbikes

    1x Skimmer with prismatic cannon

    DE allies
    Archon, Blaster
    10x Kabalites, Splinter cannon, Raider, Dark Lance, Splinter Racks
    10x Kabalites, Darklance

    I'm only coming up to 955 points, so I guess I'm missing something. I normally would have guessed at shadowfield, but he specifically said he didn't take one (!) so I don't know?


    Spoiler: Mission, Deployment, Warlord
    Show

    Vanguard (again), Purge using a 6x4 since we're playing 1k now.
    He wins the roll off and makes me go 1st, I win roll off for table edge and pick the one that offers him the worst position even though I probably could have made better use of the other side myself.
    He rolls warlord and gets +1" to moves re-roll 1's to hit, to wound and saves. Not bad.
    I roll strategic and score warlord and 3 non vehicles get infiltrate. Oh yeah.
    I put my pair of Vindies on the line with as much cover as I can manage (not much), but controlling a decent portion of the field while my Warpsmith, his flunkies and the oblits all infiltrate.
    He spreads out to deny a covert infiltrate in his backfield and ensures I can't get too many easy shots while his raider goes into DS reserve

    I deploy the 2 CSM units in their rhinos along with the Oblits in the corner nearest his skimmer and a pair of his bikes since they're the real threat, leaving my vindicators more than a little exposed.



    Spoiler: Turn 1
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    Everything moves up, with the warlords rhino pivoting for that valuable extra movement to get the melta guns in range.

    I melta the skimmer, but he jinks both shots. That's fine, that just means it's snap firing. Only now as I type this do I realise we played this with him getting the benefit of the Faolchu's blade formation (re-roll jink saves) despite them being in the normal harlequin formation instead. Oh well. Some bolter fire from the other Rhino and the CSM inside thins the closest squad of troupers down to 3 and the Oblit slam home a bunch of assault cannon shots into the bikers, wiping them out despite a 4+ re-roll, netting 1st Blood and a kill point! The Vindicators both land on target, dropping a handful of models from 1 kabalite squad (but not the darklance unfortunately) and another small handful from another trouper unit.

    All morale tests are passed and that's the end of my phase.

    Harlies
    Skimmer and bikes shuffle around, harlies move up, kabalites move up since they've got nothing better to do and are out of range of anything else.

    Shooting is ineffectual between snap shots and some terrible pen rolls and a single 5+ cover save on a rhino, I emerge unscathed!


    2 : 0 to me.


    Spoiler: Turn 2
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    I push my advantage and send the melta rhino and the oblits forward to try and deal with the skimmer while the plasma rhino blocks LOS and tries to whittle down the remaining harlies. The middle vindy moves up while the other vindicator moves fractionally to maintain LOS.

    The skimmer continue to jink away my melta, though my warpsmith misses with his BS5 melta gun. The Oblits show him how it's done by pumping twin linked plasma shots into it, exploding it due to AP2 & open topped for a Kill Point! The plasma squad decides to try and finish off the 3 man troupers, but can't quite seal the deal, dropping 2 an leaving the remaining troupe leader on 1 wound. The middle vindy does a few more wounds and the bottom vindy scatters 12" to the right like a chump.

    The lone troupe master fails morale on an 11 and flees! though all other morale checks are made.

    Harlies
    The Raider arrives, but scatters 6" back towards the middle vindicator. The remaining bikes move up to gain LOS on the warlords rhino and his warlords harlie unit moves up while the kabalites elect to sit tight. The lone troupe master doesn't rally since he's under 25% and needing snake eyes. He then rolls a 3 for flee distance. Archon splits off from his mauled squad, leaving them to their fate as they both run forward.

    The Kabalites dark lance pens the bottom vindicator, exploding it and earning a kill point! The bikes put 2 pens onto the warlords rhino, causing a shaken result along with an Immobilised but not enough to pop it.

    His warlord and flunkies assault the plasma squad rhino (overwatching bolter achieving nothing), causing 5 glances and wrecking it. The plasma squad gets out and passes their pinning check. The jetbikes assault move back out of LOS behind the ruin.

    3 : 2 to me


    Spoiler: Turn 3
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    The melta squad rhino rolls a 6 and unimmobilises itself! The Oblits head towards the raider while the plasma squad tries to get into cover in the forrest, but fails miserably, rolling a 1 and a 2 for their move through cover check. The remaining vindy shuffles around a bit to get LOS and range on the bikes.

    The warpsmith can see the clumped up harlies out the top hatch and puts the flamer to use, roasting 4. He clearly hasn't appeased the machine spirit of his melta gun though, rolling another 1. The Oblits whip out the assault cannons again and explode the raider because open topped and gain another kill point! 5 kabalites die in the explosion, but make their pinning and morale checks. The vindicator achieves nothing against the bikes because re-rolling your jink saves is bull****. The disembarked plasma squad vents their fury on the remaining harlies who toated their ride and earn a kill point along with Warlord!

    Harlies
    The lone troupe master keeps fleeing, and then rolls 4 for distance. The archon moves up and the darklance kabalites do too, along with the remaining harlies and the jetbikes decide to move up as well.

    Shooting from the jetbikes, harlies and kabalites thins out 3 bolter dudes from the plasma squad, but they hold their ground and prepare to recieve the charge. The archon puts a pen on the remaining Vindy, immobilising it.

    Overwatch against the harlies achieves nothing and then they and the jetbikes charge into the plasma squad, killing 1 on hammer of wrath in exchange for 1 of the harlies. The jetbikes hit & run out of combat.

    6 ; 2 to me


    Spoiler: Turn 4
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    The now mobile rhino moves up and dumps the warpsmith and his squad out in range of the bikes while the oblits move up to try and take down the remaining raider kabalites. The plasma squad remains locked in combat with the troupe master of the harlies.

    The oblits fire their plasma cannons (since the kabalites were still grouped nicely), but only 1 hit while the other 2 scattered wildly. That hit took out 4/5 though, but again the remaining guy (with the cannon no less) holds fast. The warpsmith and his friends do a number on the bikes, finally pushing some wounds through an earning a kill point! The warpsmith it is to be noted, again rolled a 1 for his melta gun to hit and he will have words with whomever has been screwing around with his kit. The troupe master and the aspiring champ have a pillow fight and then the rest of the squad piles on and drops the troupe master while he's not looking, grabbing another Kill point! They consolidate into the forrest.

    Harlies
    The troupe master keeps on legging it, failing morale again but proceeds to roll snake eyes for distance! Oh man, talk about twisting the knife! The kabalites move up, the remaining spliter cannon dude tries to go out guns blazing, but can't get through the armour save of the plasma squad.


    8 : 2 to me


    Spoiler: Turn 5
    Show


    We call it here as it's all over bar the crying. The remaining troupe master is still fleeing, so he's considered destroyed, gaining me another kill point!




    Spoiler: Results and Conclusions
    Show

    The Iron Warriors have 7 kill points, Fist Blood and Warlord for a total of 9 points.
    The Harlequins have 2 kill points for a total of 2 points.

    A Crushing Victory for the Iron Warriors this day!

    I thought I was going to get de-meched and brutalised, but some luck with warlord traits and decent shooting T1 put me into a strong position while my opponent had dice AIDS for much of the game. I think i'd have been in a bit of trouble if I'd not rolled infiltrate as driving up means that he would get a free turn to demech me, and once my dudes are out of their transports, it's all downhill very quickly.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Nice report Drasius. No special weapons for his harlies?

    Goes to show that you should run harlies in starweavers or on foot with a shadowseer providing veil of tears.

    Anyway, thinking about a 1500 point pure Harliequin force for the Vassal games, and this is what I got.

    Spoiler: Hope there is not too many flamers
    Show


    Cegorach's Revenge (1500pts)

    Death Jester
    Death Jester
    Death Jester


    Shadowseer

    Mastery Level 2, The Mask of Secrets

    Shadowseer
    Mastery Level 1

    Shadowseer

    Mastery Level 1

    Skyweavers
    Skyweaver
    Shuriken Cannon, Star Bolas
    Skyweaver
    Shuriken Cannon, Star Bolas

    Skyweavers
    Skyweaver
    Shuriken Cannon, Star Bolas
    Skyweaver
    Shuriken Cannon, Star Bolas

    Solitaire
    Haywire grenades

    Troupe
    Starweaver
    5x Caress

    Troupe
    Starweaver
    5x Caress
    Starweaver

    Troupe

    7x additional players
    5x Caress, 1x Embrace, 1x Kiss
    Troupe Master (W), Cegorach's Rose

    Voidweaver
    Haywire cannon

    1500 on the dot.


    The formation allows units to run and charge (from turn 2), and reroll 1's for invulnerable saves.

    The idea is generate some Santic powers with two of the Shadowseers (the third will always go for Phantasmancy and Veil of Tears). With rerolling all 1's for invulnerable saves, Sanctuary is pretty good and Gate of Infinity to close the gap fast. Warlord will always roll on the light Harlequin table. Any other suggestions?

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Got a bit of money, thinking of finally buying some Harlies. If played together with Eldar, do people agree that basically, their fusion pistols aren't worth the points?

    Edit: also, Banshees. I don't like their colour scheme much and I think for once, I won't be fluff appropriate. So, instead of Bone and White, does anyone have any other ideas for them? Their associations are death, blood, spirits, fate and witchcraft, but I can't think of anything good, as I don't want them too colourful. Google hasn't brought up anything good either.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2015-04-29 at 01:17 PM.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Maybe a black widow-esque color scheme? Or looking up what color represents death in varying cultures.
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    By Alterform


    Spoiler
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    Lore: 7.

    Factors: 2.

    Wealth: 5

    Magic: 4

    Espionage: 4

    Reputation: 3.

    Military: 2.

    Faith: 6.



  8. - Top - End - #38
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Got a bit of money, thinking of finally buying some Harlies. If played together with Eldar, do people agree that basically, their fusion pistols aren't worth the points?

    Edit: also, Banshees. I don't like their colour scheme much and I think for once, I won't be fluff appropriate. So, instead of Bone and White, does anyone have any other ideas for them? Their associations are death, blood, spirits, fate and witchcraft, but I can't think of anything good, as I don't want them too colourful. Google hasn't brought up anything good either.
    They don't need to be all red and white. The Ebon Witch shrine has black armour, with only the helm and hair being red and white. You could go with a grimmer, creepier shade of red - less vivid.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Closet_Skeleton's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Edit: also, Banshees. I don't like their colour scheme much and I think for once, I won't be fluff appropriate.
    Funny, I basically copied the Banshee scheme for my Incubi.
    "that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft

    When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.


  10. - Top - End - #40
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    ZeltArruin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    Funny, I basically copied the Banshee scheme for my Incubi.
    Not Striking Scorpions?
    ~ZA

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    If I ever do an Eldar army, I'll probably due a blue-black paint scheme inspired by Sub-Zero....
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    By Alterform


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    Lore: 7.

    Factors: 2.

    Wealth: 5

    Magic: 4

    Espionage: 4

    Reputation: 3.

    Military: 2.

    Faith: 6.



  12. - Top - End - #42
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    A possible 2500pt Necron list, using pretty much every model I have:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Reclamation Legion [Monolith]
    Immortals
    10x Immortal [10x Gauss Blaster]
    Lychguard [Night Scythe]
    10x Lychguard [10x Hyperphase Sword & Dispersion Shield]
    Overlord [Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Resurrection Orb, Tachyon arrow, Voidreaper]
    Tomb Blades
    Tomb Blade [Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes, Twin-linked Tesla Carbine]
    Tomb Blade [Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes, Twin-linked Tesla Carbine]
    Tomb Blade [Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes, Twin-linked Tesla Carbine]
    Warriors [10x Necron Warrior]
    Warriors [Ghost Ark, 10x Necron Warrior]
    Warriors [10x Necron Warrior]

    + Auxiliary +

    Annihilation Nexus [Doomsday Ark]
    Annihilation Barge [Tesla Cannon]
    Annihilation Barge [Tesla Cannon]

    Canoptek Harvest
    Canoptek Scarabs [8x Canoptek Scarab]
    Canoptek Spyders
    Canoptek Spyder [Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism, Twin-Linked Particle Beamer]
    Canoptek Spyder [Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism, Twin-Linked Particle Beamer]
    Canoptek Wraiths
    Canoptek Wraith [Whip Coils]
    Canoptek Wraith [Whip Coils]
    Canoptek Wraith [Whip Coils]

    Deathmarks [5x Deathmark]
    Past Avatars:
    Spoiler
    Show

    By Alterform


    Spoiler
    Show
    Lore: 7.

    Factors: 2.

    Wealth: 5

    Magic: 4

    Espionage: 4

    Reputation: 3.

    Military: 2.

    Faith: 6.



  13. - Top - End - #43
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    The Canoptek Harvest formation only allows for a single Spyder, though.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    If I ever do an Eldar army, I'll probably due a blue-black paint scheme inspired by Sub-Zero....
    That actually sounds really "cool"... But honestly it sounds like a good idea, you should do a test model and see how it looks.
    Lillien Lemmerin:http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetvie...sheetid=111721

    Member of the Mr Scruffy fan club

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    The Canoptek Harvest formation only allows for a single Spyder, though.
    Single unit of Spyders. A Spyder can be taken in a unit of up to 3 though.
    Past Avatars:
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    By Alterform


    Spoiler
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    Lore: 7.

    Factors: 2.

    Wealth: 5

    Magic: 4

    Espionage: 4

    Reputation: 3.

    Military: 2.

    Faith: 6.



  16. - Top - End - #46
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Single unit of Spyders. A Spyder can be taken in a unit of up to 3 though.
    The rules don't support that in the least.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    While it's possible it might get FAQ'd, At present, the formation quite clearly states, "One Canoptek Spyder," not, " One unit of Canoptek Spyders."
    Steam ID: The Great Squark
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    A possible 2500pt Necron list, using pretty much every model I have:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Reclamation Legion [Monolith]
    Immortals
    10x Immortal [10x Gauss Blaster]
    Lychguard [Night Scythe]
    10x Lychguard [10x Hyperphase Sword & Dispersion Shield]
    Overlord [Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Resurrection Orb, Tachyon arrow, Voidreaper]
    Tomb Blades
    Tomb Blade [Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes, Twin-linked Tesla Carbine]
    Tomb Blade [Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes, Twin-linked Tesla Carbine]
    Tomb Blade [Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes, Twin-linked Tesla Carbine]
    Warriors [10x Necron Warrior]
    Warriors [Ghost Ark, 10x Necron Warrior]
    Warriors [10x Necron Warrior]

    + Auxiliary +

    Annihilation Nexus [Doomsday Ark]
    Annihilation Barge [Tesla Cannon]
    Annihilation Barge [Tesla Cannon]

    Canoptek Harvest
    Canoptek Scarabs [8x Canoptek Scarab]
    Canoptek Spyders
    Canoptek Spyder [Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism, Twin-Linked Particle Beamer]
    Canoptek Spyder [Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism, Twin-Linked Particle Beamer]
    Canoptek Wraiths
    Canoptek Wraith [Whip Coils]
    Canoptek Wraith [Whip Coils]
    Canoptek Wraith [Whip Coils]

    Deathmarks [5x Deathmark]
    Taking Nebuloscopes with Tesla doesn't work very well. You don't get much of a benefit from Ignores Cover if you're using guns with AP - . Personally, I like Twin Gauss Blasters for AP 4 Ignores Cover, with the ability to jink and still fire some shots. Particle Beamers are a much more damaging option, but with only three Blades they'll die pretty fast, and if you jink they can't do anything at all.
    Looking back on sanity from the other side, and laughing really loudly

    "In the whole of oWOD, there are only five normal people not somehow tied to the great supernatural conspiracy, and three of them were Elvis."
    Quote Originally Posted by The Tygre View Post
    If Ravenloft has taught me anything, darkness only makes the stars shine brighter.
    Bowl of Petunias avatar by Rincewind

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    While it's possible it might get FAQ'd, At present, the formation quite clearly states, "One Canoptek Spyder," not, " One unit of Canoptek Spyders."
    Is it possible to take the whole unit - but, allow only one to benefit from the Formation Rules?
    Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    So, our escalation continues, and despite not needing it, I present to you a clear case study in power levels between DA, CSM and Codex Marines.

    1st Game

    Spoiler: Iron Warriors
    Show

    125 - Warpsmith, Aura of Dark Glory
    210 - 10x CSM, 2x Plasma, Melta bombs, Rhino
    138 - 6x CSM, 1x Melta, Melta Bombs, Rhino

    145 - Vindicator, Daemonic possession, Combi Bolter, Dozer Blade
    145 - Vindicator, Daemonic possession, Combi Bolter, Dozer Blade
    234 - 3x Obliterators, Mark of Tzeentch

    Same same. This plasma list I'm facing is one of the reasons I grabbed MoT on the oblits.


    Vs.

    Spoiler: Ravenwing
    Show

    Sammael
    6x Ravenwing Bikes, 2x Plasma guns, Melta Bombs, Power Sword
    6x Ravenwing Bikes, 2x Plasma guns, Melta Bombs, Power Sword
    9x Black Knights, 6x Plasma Talons, 3x Grenade launchers


    Spoiler: Mission, Deployment, Warlord
    Show

    Vanguard Dawn of War, Crusade, 4 objectives1 in the middle, 1 in the top left, 1 each in ruins towards the short edge of the table
    He wins table edge, I win deployment and choose to go 1st
    Sammael gets his +d6 move thingy
    My Warpsmith rolls Infiltrate on strategic again. Nice.
    Vindies deploy in what little cover they can find, everything else infiltrates.
    He deploys on the line but reasonably spread out.
    I shatter defences on the building to the left.
    I infiltrate the rhinos midfield to counter since I know this guy likes agressive scouting and the oblits go up into the backline to force the bikes away from the vindicators and ensure I've got a reasonable chance to make the black knights Jink.

    He scout moves the 2 ravenwing bikers up and to the left (his right) to try and flank the vindi and the rhinos. The Black knights don't scout.
    He doesn't sieze.


    Spoiler: Turn 1
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    Right Vindi moves up 10" since he isn't in range to shoot, other vindy shuffles a bit and the rhinos head for the middle objective and the oblits move forward exactly 6" to be 12" away from the black knights.

    Right Vindy pops smoke since he can't shoot his cannon anyway. Other vindy removes 1 black knight with the demolisher and 1 from a snap shot by the combi bolter! Oblits rapid fire their twin linked plasma guns and drop another black knight. The plasma marines fire out the top hatch, causing one of the ravenwing squads to jink while the melta squad rhino pops smoke since it's got nothing better to do.

    Ravenwing
    The Ravenwing move up towards the vindy and rhinos while the black knights and sambo head for the Oblits, where I realise why they didn't scout move. Crap.

    2 Black knights kill themselves with their plasma guns despite being twin linked while the Oblits shrug off their small amount of hits. Shooting from the ravenwing is ineffectual since 1 jinked and the other is out of range.

    He charges the remaining black knights and sammael into the Oblits. Impact hits take a wound off since I can't roll 2+ saves. Sammael does 1 AP2 wound (despite prefered enemy and master crafted) that's saved (on a 4, go Tzeentch!) and despite something like 24 attacks, the BK's only hit with 3, 1 of which is rending because why not? I fail 1 armour and pass another invo on a 4 (Yay Tzeentch!), and then strike back with 2 hits and 2 kills, winning combat but he's fearless.



    Spoiler: Turn 2
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    The rhinos and middle vindicator pivot and target the ravenwing, the right vindy moves 12 because again he's got nothing to shoot at.

    The vindy removes a ravenwing biker and forces 1 squad to jink, while the combined plasma and melta fire from the other squad removes 1 from another squad after making them jink as well.

    Sammael takes off a wound from 1 Oblit, but the BK's just bounce off the 2+ save while the Oblits manage 3 hits and 2 kills, earning 1st Blood! He then tries to hit & run, but fails with a 6!

    Ravenwing
    Bikes move up again, but fail to achieve anything with their shooting. They're too far out for a charge, so 1 squad turboboosts.

    Sammael puts another wound on the other obliterator, but they manage 3 on him, but he passes 2/3 on his 4+ (go Tzeentch!, no, wait...). I pass my morale on a 7. Just.

    (the group of bikes on the right is his dead pile)


    Spoiler: Turn 3
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    I move stuff around, but with 2 vindies and both squads still in the rhinos and sammael down to 2 wounds in combat with 2 oblits, he decides to call it before i fire. GG


    Ravenwing
    -


    Spoiler: Turn 4
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    -
    Ravenwing
    -


    Spoiler: Turn 5
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    -
    Ravenwing
    -


    Spoiler: Results and Conclusions
    Show

    Conceded (effectively) at the end of Turn 2.

    A Crushing Victory for the Iron Warriors this day!

    Rough game for him. He shouldn't have lost the majority of his BK's to 3 Oblits in assault, but then he did make a reasonable amount of jink saves against the vindy and plasma shots, so I guess it evens out a bit. Infiltrate won me that game for sure. I think he made the mistake of not moving towards me and assaulting my vehicles immediately (on turn 2 for the scouting ravenwing) since there's not much I can do to stop him Meltaing and grenading my rear armour and then he can dance around doing whatever he likes since I move 6 and he moves 12". I made the mistake of expecting him to scout move his BK's away from the oblits, so his assault caught me by surprise.

    I think he could have maybe managed a win if he had kept playing though I doubt it, but I wouldn't have conceeded before a shot had been fired T3.

    I really hate that 12" scout move, but then, since I got infiltrate again, I can't complain too much.


    2nd Game

    Apologies for the lack of pictures from turns 2/3/4

    Spoiler: Iron Warriors
    Show

    125 - Warpsmith, Aura of Dark Glory
    210 - 10x CSM, 2x Plasma, Melta bombs, Rhino
    138 - 6x CSM, 1x Melta, Melta Bombs, Rhino

    145 - Vindicator, Daemonic possession, Combi Bolter, Dozer Blade
    145 - Vindicator, Daemonic possession, Combi Bolter, Dozer Blade
    234 - 3x Obliterators, Mark of Tzeentch

    Same same. This grav list I'm facing is one of the other reasons I grabbed MoT on the oblits.


    Vs.

    Spoiler: White Scars
    Show

    Khan
    4x Bikers, 2x Melta, 1x Combi Melta, Attack Bike w/ Multimelta
    4x Bikers, 2x Grav, 1x Combi Grav, Attack Bike w/ Multimelta
    4x Bikers, 2x Grav, 1x Combi Grav, Attack Bike w/ Multimelta
    Stormtalon, skyhammer missiles
    Thunderfire cannon

    Urgh. This is our resident unabashed powergamer who has forced everyone to start taking strong options instead of what they like (we have a very casual meta outside of this guy) or be crushed brutally, especially the newer players. His next 500 points is chapter master smashface, another 'Talon and another squad of Bikes IIRC, with a knight and yet another squad of bikes to round out his 2k list. *sigh*


    Spoiler: Mission, Deployment, Warlord
    Show

    Vanguard (this is getting old) and Big Guns (well crap), 4 objectives, 1 in the middle, 1 in the open top left, 1 in a ruin at the short table edge and another mid board in a forrest.
    I win sides and pick the one with the objective in the ruin so he can't camp it with his TFC. I also win the roll to go 1st and decide to deploy first.
    KharnKhan gets champion of humanity as his fixed trait and I'm chaos. Oh joy.
    The Warpsmith rolls 3 pinning tests Infiltrate from strategic for the 3rd game in a row. Like a boss.
    Vindies go into the meagre cover again and everyone else infiltrates as per usual.
    His 3 biker units spread out with the rightmost unit being the melta squad and khan is with the leftmost squad. The Talon starts in reserve and the TFC camps a ruin.
    We laugh and bolster and shatter the same ruin the TFC is camping and find it greatly amusing.
    I pop the rhinos a bit back from minimum distance since there's nowhere good to gain an advantage and the oblits head out next to the middle objective.
    He scouts agressively with all 3 biker units and uncovers a skyfire nexus in the forrest!

    He doesn't manage to sieze.


    Spoiler: Turn 1
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    Right Vindicator pivots to target the melta bikers, middle vindy stays where he is, rhinos head off towards the forrest and guard each others flank as best they can, Oblits move into the middle crater to reveal a grav wave generator!

    Right Vindy causes a Jink and a kill on the melta bikers, the middle vindy removes the middle grav sarge and the plasma squad remove a grav biker from khan's squad while the warpsmith removes the sarge from khan's squad as well, rolling a 23 on the boon table for +1 attack. The oblits watch their rapid fire plasma guns achieve nothing as he jinks all 5 wounds. Both Rhinos pop smoke. Khan's squad passes their morale check.

    White Scars
    The bikers all move up with the melta squad going after the right vindy and the other 2 going after the middle objective and the oblits.

    The bikers collectively do nothing bar taking a single wound off an obliterator because they all jinked and 2+/4++ is rad, but the TFC manages a pair of glances on the rhinos (1 each). 1 is saved by smoke, but the plasma squad rhino loses a hull point.




    Spoiler: Turn 2
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    Oblits move out of the crater (just) to prevent the -2 for charging through cover since they're already copping a -2 from the grav wave as his bikes are troops and steal it out from under me. The right vindy moves back to maintain range and the middle vindy does the same. The melta squad rhino attempts to move into the forrest, but immobilises itself and the plasma rhino moves to the edge of the forrest (but doesn't enter).

    The rhino attempts to remobilise itself but fails, but the warpsmith gets him going again because servo harness mechatentrils. The plasma squad depletes khan's squad of an attack bike and the oblits take out another bike and stick a wound on khan for good measure with their assault cannons. The right vindy scatters poorly, achieving nothing but making the melta squad jink and the middle vindy lands 2 hits on the middle grav squad, but he jinks both, only to have 1 die to a snap shotting combi bolter! All morale tests are passed.

    The oblits declare a charge against khan's unit and make it in with a 4. They punch on and the Scars can't break through 2+ with such a small number of attacks and are wiped out, earning both First Blood and Warlord! The oblits consolidate back into cover.

    White Scars
    The 'Talon comes in and heads straight for the middle vindy showing its side armour. The melta bikers go after the right vindy and the remaining grav bikers move up to ensure a charge against the oblits.

    The TFC tries to hammer the oblits, but scatters 8 onto his grav bikers, doling out 5 wounds to him and 6 to me. I lose 1 oblit and a wound on another as my saves permanantly turn to crap for them while he saves his. The grav bikers still can't hit worth a damn because jink, but I fail another bolter wound and lose 1 more oblit, but thankfully pass morale. The 'Talon wrecks the middle vindicator with only the assault cannon and doesn't even need to fire the skyhammers. The melta bikers fail to achieve anything against the remaining vindy and then fail to hurt it in assault either. The remaining grav bikers assault, lose combat and flee with their 1 remaining model.


    Spoiler: Turn 3
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    The remaining vindy moves back again to get range, the plasma rhino heads for the TFC and the melta rhino head through the forrest to claim the skyfire objective while the oblits just remain camping out in the crater.

    The warpsmith, despite having BS5 and now skyfire, fails to hit the Stormtalon. His melta gunner lackey manages a hit, but only a 2 to pen and achieves nothing beyond making the 'Talon jink, which isn't terrible, but not exactly what I wanted. The plasma guys put 3 hits into the TFC, but can't manage to sneak anything past a 4+ cover. The Oblits gun down the remaining biker who fled from combat. The vindy scatters 6" back towards himself, missing the bikers completely and just avoiding the shame of exploding himself by less than 1/2 an inch!

    White Scars
    The 'Talon flies off the board since it has jinked and there were no good targets for it. The melta bikes again can't manage to do anything to to the vindy due to jinking and the TFC drops the oblits down to 1 wound each.

    The melta bikers again charge the vindy, finally sticking it with a melta bomb and getting a weapon destroyed, but the 5 points for a combi bolter pays off and the demolisher cannon is just fine!


    Spoiler: Turn 4
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    The plasma rhino moves up again and disembarks the plasma squad into the TFC's building and they deploy into the ruins directly underneath him and his cannon so he can't use the TFC to hit them. The melta rhino moves through the forrest again to get to the other side and support the remaining forces while ensuring that the 'Talon has to pick his approach carefully since even if it gets rekt wrecked, then the warpsmith and melta chump will still have skyfire. The Vindy backs up again, now hard up against a ruin and no way out.

    The Warpsmith has no decent targets, so decides to repair a hull point on the Rhino and does so successfully. The plasma gunners manage to kill off the TFC, leaving the techmarine on his lonesome at the cost of 1 dieing to overheat. The vindy lands a direct hit on the bikers, wounds all 4 and achieves nothing because 3+ jink. *sigh*

    White Scars
    'Talon comes back on targetting the oblits, dropping 1 and leaving the other on 1 wound, but I make morale again. The techmarine positions himself to hit most of my dudes with a flamer but I make all but 1 save and he blasts another with his plasma pistol, killing 1 more. The Melta squad achieves nothing with shooting once more.

    He declares a charge with the techmarine and survives overwatch, but rolls snake eyes, and since he's in a ruin, charges exactly 0 inches! He charges the vindicator again and finally puts it out of our misery with a pen and a glance.


    Spoiler: Turn 5
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    The plasma rhino heads off and flat outs over to the objective in the top left of the table, but we forget to roll the mysterious objective (this will become rather important later). The melta squad rhino decides to move out of cover to disembark the squad into the middle crater and the warpsmith back onto the forrest objective and force the 'Talon away, but it instead immobilises itself again! FFS! I decide to fire out the top hatch, since 1 BS5 melta gun and 1 BS4 melta gun should be able to drop that 'Talon, surely? Both hit, but both roll 2's for their pen, achieving nothing at all other than making it jink. Crap.

    I pew pew the techmarine with bolt pistols and a krak grenade, but 2+ means I can't achieve anything. I proceed to charge and wipe him out before he strikes, consolidating onto the balcony and roof.

    White Scars
    His 'Talon goes into hover to finish off the remaining oblit. and claim the middle ruin objective while the bikers flat out in case there's a T6 since they're out of range to achieve anything else other than linebreaker which won't matter.


    He's got 3 HS kills , I have 1 HS kill, 1st blood, warlord, linebreaker and 1 objective for the win 7-3, but the game continues on a 3. Damn.


    Spoiler: Turn 6
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    I turn the plasma rhino around to protect his rear armour (again, this will become relevant in a minute) and claim linebreaker. The Melta squad rhino can't move, but it is claiming the forrest objective, so I decide to get out, break the warpsmith off from the squad and have them run to the crater objective.

    The squad needs a 2 to be a hairs breadth within 3" of the objective and gets exactly a 2 for their run move. Since the warpsmith is doing his own thing, he can totally shoot the melta gun, but despite a hit (the 'Talon is hovering now), he rolls another 2 to pen, losing any hope I had of downing that damned 'Talon. Crap.

    The plasma gunner drops a bike and then another one with long range bolter fire and he doesn't jink, but passes his morale. Double crap.

    White Scars
    The 2 remaining bikers pop the rhino and claim the objective in the forrest. The 'Talon flies over to the objective in the far right ruin, discovering a ... whatever 4 is on the mysterious chart.

    He has 3 HS kills and 2 Objectives, I have 1 HS kill, 2 objectives, 1st blood, Warlord and Linebreaker for the win 10-9.
    Game continues on a 6. FML.


    Spoiler: Turn 7
    Show

    Iron Warriors
    I move the warpsmith into the ruin in the middle, the melta squad heads back into the forrest and assault the bikes, but can't drop the attack bike, leaving it on 1 wound, who then fails morale and I don't persue, consolidating onto the objective.

    Suddenly, my opponent realises we haven't rolled the plasma rhinos mysterious objective. Sure enough, it turns out to be a 1. Booby trapped. He inists we roll for the previous turns to see if it would have exploded. It wouldn't have mattered since I wouldn't have put my rhino where the rear armour would've been hit but that doesn't fly apparently. 2 rolls, 1 explodes, 3 hits, 2 glances and it's a wreck.

    White Scars
    He moves and then turbo boosts the single bike that automatically rallied onto the middle objective the warpsmith is holding and claims it because ObSec. Game over.



    Spoiler: Results and Conclusions
    Show

    The Iron Warriors have 1 Heavy Support kill, First Blood, Slay the Warlord and hold 1 objective (grumble grumble) for 6 points.
    The White Scars have 3 heavy support kills and hold 2 objectives for 9 points.

    "Victory" to the white scars, though if that last rhino wasn't suddenly wrecked, I would've had another objective and linebreaker, winning by 1, 10-9.

    The forced rolling of the booby trapped objective without the chance to reposition my rhino really soured this game for me. It will be counted as a win for him, but not in my books.

    Despite (I feel) outplaying him at every turn, I couldn't gain enough of an advantage and routinely got screwed by the dice towards the end of the game.

    This was certainly not the game for melta guns with far, far too many misses and failed penetration/to wound rolls.

    I'm starting to think this list is what it would be like to play Tau, but without the range, volume of fire, supporting fire, JSJ, ignores cover, interceptor or skyfire.

    You should totally not be able to jink blast weapons.

    I really, really hate 12" scout moves.
    Last edited by Drasius; 2015-04-30 at 10:56 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Is it possible to take the whole unit - but, allow only one to benefit from the Formation Rules?
    No, because you can't take more than 1 spyder to start with. You don't take a unit of spyders, you take 1 spyder, singular. This was all discussed at length when the dex came out a few months ago.

    Also, go out and buy orikan right now if you want a proper decron deathstar. You'll be able to fit him if you trim down on some excess.

    As it is though, congratulate your overlord on his promotion to Zandrek and combine your 2x 10 warrior unit into 1 of 20. As voidhawk said, gauss over tesla because ignores cover Str 5 AP4 twin linked is awesome.

    If you can stomach buying Orikan, a Lord and Zandrek (or just using counts as), and dropping the illegal spyder and the monolith, you could run the following;

    Reclamation legion
    10 Immortals
    10 Lychguard (sword & board), Nightscythe
    Zandrek
    3x Tomb Blades, Nebuloscopes, Vanes and Gauss
    20x Warriors
    10x Warriors, Ghost ark

    Royal court
    Lord, solar staff, res orb
    Orikan
    Overlord, phase shifter, voidreaper

    Annihilation Nexus
    Doomsday Ark
    Anni barge
    Anni barge

    Canoptek harvest
    1x Spyder, Gloom Prism (he's going to be running to keep the wraiths and scarabs in range and will die 1st or 2nd turn if your opponents have any clue what they're doing.)
    3x Wraiths, whip coils
    8x scarabs

    2496

    The ghost ark is a bit of an odd one out, but at least it's not the only armour on the field and can bring some warriors back when needed

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    That Scars guy sounds like a jerk, sorry to hear that.

    Cult Mechanicus leaks starting, the new Kastelan robot looks awesome imo. Some people think the model is goofy, but I like it. Rules aren't bad either!
    http://imgur.com/a/PQi9K

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    That Scars guy sounds like a jerk, sorry to hear that.

    Cult Mechanicus leaks starting, the new Kastelan robot looks awesome imo. Some people think the model is goofy, but I like it. Rules aren't bad either!
    http://imgur.com/a/PQi9K
    I wonder why they made the Dataspike there slightly different from the Skitarii's Prehensile Dataspike (the Skitarii version having AP5 and Specialist Weapon). I suppose it could be so they don't get the extra attack for having two specialist weapons.

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    I suspect the Kastelan is gonna be one of those models, like the Stormraven or that Space Wolf character on a thunderwolf, where the intial photos look goofy but once you see it from another angle or in a different paint job you realise there was actually nothing wrong. So yeah, I'm going to wait and see on that one.
    LGBTQIA+ITP

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    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    I love the mechanicum models. These guys look amazing. Though thye can't beat my favourites, the saladbowl heads.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

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    LeSwordfish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    To me, they look okay- but entirely unlike any of the other mechanicum models. They just don't seem to belong in the same range as the Ballistarae.
    - Avatar by LCP -

  27. - Top - End - #57
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    I reckon the forgeworld models look better than these ones. These ones seem a bit static. The rules look pretty impressive though.
    Lillien Lemmerin:http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetvie...sheetid=111721

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  28. - Top - End - #58
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Can someone explain some of how Allies work? You need your standard Force Org chart, and then for an allies Force Org chart you need 1 HQ and 1 Troop, and then can take 1 of Troop, Heavy Support, Fast Attack, or Elite?

    It's very confusing to someone who's coming from last having played 4th edition where no one got "allies" per say.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Manticoran View Post
    Can someone explain some of how Allies work? You need your standard Force Org chart, and then for an allies Force Org chart you need 1 HQ and 1 Troop, and then can take 1 of Troop, Heavy Support, Fast Attack, or Elite?

    It's very confusing to someone who's coming from last having played 4th edition where no one got "allies" per say.
    That's the jist of it, though now it's a bit more confusing with detachments and formations.

    Basically, you can have any number of detachments (Formations are Detachments). Any Detachment can be of any faction (aka army). So, you can have a Combined Arms Detachment (the traditional FOC of old) of Space Marines and also take the new Eldar Craftworld Warhost next to each other. This is a legal army. The only thing you have to consider is that each unit in a detachment has to obey the Ally restrictions from the chart. So, while you can field a CAD of Tyranids next to a CAD of Eldar, they have to be 12" away during deployment and remain 6" away for the rest of the game.

    The Allied Detachment is a specific Detachment in the BRB that is as you describe - 1 HQ, 1-2 Troops, 1 FA, 1 Elite, 1 HS. This can be taken just like any other Detachment in the game - even taken multiple times! However, it has the restriction that it cannot be comprised of the same army as your Primary Detachment - in this case, your Primary Detachment is the one with your Warlord. So you can have a Space Marine CAD, an Imperial Guard Allied Detachment, and a Skitarii Maniple as a legal army.

    It's a bit confusing but you get used to it.

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    ...So you can have a full org chart of Space Marines and a full org chart of Eldar, they just can't be close to each other? Then what's the purpose of the Allied Detachment? Is it just that you need 1 less Troop choice, and don't get as many things you can put in it?

    It seems like there could be a lot of people taking the cheapest HQ unit and the cheapest troop unit to get access to a super-efficient Heavy Support or Elite unit?
    Last edited by Manticoran; 2015-05-01 at 12:25 AM.

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