[Dreamscarred Press] Path of War: Expanded! (Discussion Thread IV)

[ErrantX]

We went through 50 pages in like, a month. WOW guys!!

We went through another 50 pages in like, 2-3 weeks.

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The Path of War continues onward!

Within the pages of this tome, your options for martial characters more than double! Within Path of War Expanded you will find more maneuvers, stances, and feats for your existing martial disciples as well as a host of new options! There are new classes, archetypes, martial traditions, and even the new class template that provides a way to use a single archetype for different character classes.

Within Path of War Expanded, you will find:

• Three new base classes, from the ill-omened harbinger, to the psychic zealot, and finally the arcane mystic who all mix supernatural elements into their martial combat styles.
• Nine new martial disciplines
• A host of archetypes for the three classes from Path of War and the three new classes
• Martial archetypes for core classes
• Class templates, which provides archetypes that work across multiple classes
• Martial style feats
• More martial traditions

And new and optional rules and clarifications to martial combat that will take your martial characters to a whole new level!
Come and enjoy the spoils of battle with Path of War Expanded!

Table of Contents for the project:

- The Harbinger, a melee control class that uses superior mobility and crippling status effects to command the battlefield. These warriors understand grief and anger on a personal level and translate that understanding into deadly curses and reality-warping swordplay. Harbinger also has two archetypes available in beta. The Crimson Countess emphasizes the Claim mechanic to take her rage out on her victims, while the Ravenlord creates a shadowy servant that aids him in battle. A new archetype, the Bleak Emissary, is available for beta testing. The Omen Rider archetype, a mounted warrior archetype, is available for beta testing. Harbinger introduces two new disciplines: Cursed Razor and Shattered Mirror

- The Zealot, a psionic swordsman who leads his party into battle with the power of his passions and their own collective bond. These psionic initiators augment their maneuvers with power points and aid their party members with telepathy. Zealot introduces the Eternal Guardian and Sleeping Goddess disciplines. Zealot archetypes may be found here.

- The Mystic, a melee support class that uses unstable arcane energies to unleash beneficial magic on his allies and scourge his enemies with the power of the elements. Mystics are founts of energy that they vent through martial discipline and intuition rather than through spells. Mystic will introduce the Elemental Flux and Riven Hourglass disciplines. Mystic archetypes are found at the bottom of the document.

But wait, there's more!

- Dreamscarred Press is happy to announce Class Templates, archetypes that can be applied to more than one class. Class Templates represent ideas too broad for a single-class archetype, letting you create very different versions of the same somewhat broad idea. The three introduced in Path of War Expanded are the Bushi, Privateer, and Hussar, for all of your samurai, pirate, and mounted warrior needs. At the end of the document you'll find the Mithral Current discipline as well.

Discipline List! (in no particular order)

- The Eternal Guardian discipline

- The Sleeping Goddess discipline

- The Cursed Razor discipline

- The Shattered Mirror discipline

- The Mithral Current discipline

- The Riven Hourglass discipline, available for open beta.

- The Elemental Flux discipline is available for open beta.

- Piercing Thunder is available for open beta.

- Tempest Gale, a new ranged discipline, is now in beta!

Other Stuff!


Path of War: Expanded Archetypes Document

All the Feats for Path of War: Expanded!

Martial Tradition

- On the agenda: Favored class and racial abilities, traits, more feats, prestige classes, monster stuff, and more!

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It's been an amazing ride so far, and the support from the community for this project has been overwhelming and very touching. We couldn't have gotten this far without you guys, and I hope the Path of War line can continue to be an addition to your tables. With that said, I declare this thread to be officially open!

[ErrantX]

so lets say i have a level 18 mage, and at level 19 i take a level in one of the path of war classes and the diverse training feat, does that mean i could get high level maneuvers out of the gate? Even if i dont take the feat my initiator level would be 10 so i could take 1 level 2 maneuver and the rest level 5.

Technically yes, but there are some rules to that.

Higher level maneuvers have a minimum number of maneuvers known from that discipline, so you wouldn't just be able to pick all 5th level maneuvers from whatever discipline you wanted to. Your IL would 9 at 19th level (rounding down).

-X

[Powerdork]

Carrying feedback forward from last thread:

Re: zealot, the new Unhindered Thinking conviction doesn't specify any limitations on which of your allies gain bonuses to move speed. Members of your collective? Allies within 30/60 feet? Every dwarf ever?
Tempered Body only applies to critical hits and sneak attacks, and not other sources of precision damage?
Improved Path of Dedication is technically a different ability from Path of Dedication, so "You still may use this ability only once per round" does not refer to the base Path of Dedication ability the way it should.
Path of Dedication's bonus move action "must" be taken immediately, which means it can't not be taken. Advise adjusting.

I have just realized that using Strike of Unity I can lazylord with a zealot. I am so happy right now.

[jguy]

Posted this question at the very end of the last thread so I might as well move it over here

"I have a question. I swear there was a stance or a feat that said something along the lines of "All enemies within X ft took a -X penalty on attack rolls and saving throws, with a +1 to X every 5 initiator levels". Was a feat/stance edited from that to something else or did I somehow dream up a stance?"

[PsyBomb]

Marking this thread.

Also, I have a Crimson Countess and a Knight-Chandler in my group that I just started, so we will see how it works.

[CGNefarious]

Posted this question at the very end of the last thread so I might as well move it over here

"I have a question. I swear there was a stance or a feat that said something along the lines of "All enemies within X ft took a -X penalty on attack rolls and saving throws, with a +1 to X every 5 initiator levels". Was a feat/stance edited from that to something else or did I somehow dream up a stance?"

Sound similar to Aura of Misfortune, a first level Cursed Razor stance.

[Forrestfire]

Reposting so it doesn't get lost:

I also like the idea of a drawback for people who want to lose energy types, like, maybe...

Elemental Overspecialization
Prerequisite: Elemental Attunement class feature or access to the Elemental Flux discipline
Effect: Choose two elements available as active elements for the Elemental Flux discipline (Air, Earth, Fire, and Water). These two elements can never become your active element (although if a maneuver deals damage of their energy type, you can still use that maneuver as normal).

Or a feat like this:

Elemental Focus
Prerequisite: Elemental Attunement class feature or access to the Elemental Flux discipline
Effect: Choose one element available as an active elements for the Elemental Flux discipline. When this element is your active element, your attacks and abilities that deal damage of that element's energy type ignore up to your initiator level in energy resistance. In addition, when you reach level 10, creatures that are immune to that element's energy type take half damage instead of none from your attacks and abilities.

Or something. Might not need scaling at all, but I feel like a feat that lets you burn fire elementals is likely to spook people, so locking that ability to the level you'd be able to do that anyway through boosts seemed fair.

(The fact that I'm playing a Flux user who focuses on fire totally nothing to do with this I swear )


EDIT: Unrelated, but I just discovered that this feat exists, so by spending your feats on this, Thrashing Dragon Style, and Thrashing Dragon Pounce on a Warlord, you can Feint Gambit using your TWF attack when using a strike. Even without it, Improved Feint means that you can burn move + swift to recover maneuvers. Warlord seems like it's probably the go-to for people who want to just spam the same thing over and over again.

[ErrantX]

Just as a blanket question out there but has anyone played a straight up vanilla Mystic for any amount of time? I've done my own testing but of course there is a level of bias in that I know how I think it should be played but you all have more than proven ways to do things beyond my imagination's wildest thoughts. Mostly looking for some general feedback on how the chassis of the class is working out and how glyphs have worked out for you.

-X

[jguy]

Sound similar to Aura of Misfortune, a first level Cursed Razor stance.

That is exactly what I was thinking of! Much appreciated. This helps with my debuff party build with antipaladins, Jester Bard, Cleric, an Enchanter Wizard

[ErrantX]

Elemental Focus
Prerequisite: Elemental Attunement class feature or access to the Elemental Flux discipline
Effect: Choose one element available as an active elements for the Elemental Flux discipline. When this element is your active element, your attacks and abilities that deal damage of that element's energy type ignore up to your initiator level in energy resistance. In addition, when you reach level 10, creatures that are immune to that element's energy type take half damage instead of none from your attacks and abilities.

I like this one. I'd do that one over a drawback personally.

-X

[Manly Man]

I like this one. I'd do that one over a drawback personally.

-X

+1. Honestly, the thought of burning a red dragon to death pleases me immensely.

[ErrantX]

+1. Honestly, the thought of burning a red dragon to death pleases me immensely.

Well Flux gets that anyway, but this lets you super specialize.

-X

[scorpioni]

I playtested a lvl7 mystic but TBH I focused on animus nova'ing elemental flux (with mixed results I must say). I never used animus on glyphs, mostly because I didn't have animus remaining after flux and because the concept of glyphs didn't gel with my concept.

This brings me to a concern. The mystic seems forced into either glyphs or flux. Perhaps there should be more ways to spend animus. Other disciplines, more animus feats,...? Perhaps an archetype more focused on burning animus to boost himself (replacing glyphs)?

[Doomeye56]

+1. Honestly, the thought of burning a red dragon to death pleases me immensely.

Bastard! Defeating a fire djinn with fire spells.

[Anlashok]

Bastard! Defeating a fire djinn with fire spells.

Yes please. Honestly the worst thing about DSP psionics was that Pyrokineticists could no longer burn fire elementals to death with Heat Death.

[ErrantX]

I playtested a lvl7 mystic but TBH I focused on animus nova'ing elemental flux (with mixed results I must say). I never used animus on glyphs, mostly because I didn't have animus remaining after flux and because the concept of glyphs didn't gel with my concept.

This brings me to a concern. The mystic seems forced into either glyphs or flux. Perhaps there should be more ways to spend animus. Other disciplines, more animus feats,...? Perhaps an archetype more focused on burning animus to boost himself (replacing glyphs)?

So as far as your mixed results, could you extrapolate on that? Were some abilities more effective than others? Less? Overall was it too strong or too weak?

More animus feats are definitely a thing I want to do. I always appreciate feedback or suggestions for what people would like to see with regards to animus feats, glyphs, gambits, and stalker arts. I'm putting together the systems and use chapter for this book and if I have the material ready, we'll see if I can fit in some more gambits and stalker arts.

-X

[Nyaa]

Is Mandala Adept being reworked? Can't find it anywhere.

[Doomeye56]

I think it's being converted to a prestige class?

[Anlashok]

I think it's being converted to a prestige class?

That would suck. The archetype was a little weak but it was a ton of fun to play.

[scorpioni]

I'm also in favor of keeping Mandala Adept as an archetype (or full alternate class) instead of a prestige class, but maybe the rework might be interesting. Let's see how it plays out.

Will elaborate more on my mystic playtest but I'm in session now :p

[Adslahnit]

Assuming you have a way to let your unarmed strikes deal piercing or slashing, can the Hone Weapon feat be used on them?

[Doomeye56]

Mid way through the last thread X asked people's opinions on what they thought in turning it into a prestige class instead of it being a bloated archetype. Almost all were in favor of that.

Edit: majority would probably be a better term then almost all

[Anlashok]

Mid way through the last thread X asked people's opinions on what they thought in turning it into a prestige class instead of it being a bloated archetype. Almost all were in favor of that.

Edit: majority would probably be a better term then almost all

That's a damn shame. Having a cha-mystic was great. I actually liked having the fully randomized variant and the mandalas are awesome.

Gonna have to dig through my cache to see if I can find the original and add in the missing pieces to let my players use it, because it'd be a big shame to let the archetype go to waste like that.

And hell, it's a bit bloated but Knight Chandler is nearly as long.

[ErrantX]

I'm also in favor of keeping Mandala Adept as an archetype (or full alternate class) instead of a prestige class, but maybe the rework might be interesting. Let's see how it plays out.

Will elaborate more on my mystic playtest but I'm in session now :p

cool, I look forward to hearing back :)

Assuming you have a way to let your unarmed strikes deal piercing or slashing, can the Hone Weapon feat be used on them?

Not without some kind of a brawling aid, like spiked gauntlets or something of that kind.

Mid way through the last thread X asked people's opinions on what they thought in turning it into a prestige class instead of it being a bloated archetype. Almost all were in favor of that.

Edit: majority would probably be a better term then almost all

That's a damn shame. Having a cha-mystic was great. I actually liked having the fully randomized variant and the mandalas are awesome.

Gonna have to dig through my cache to see if I can find the original and add in the missing pieces to let my players use it, because it'd be a big shame to let the archetype go to waste like that.

And hell, it's a bit bloated but Knight Chandler is nearly as long.

Mandala adept is on hold right now; being at a lengthy 6 pages I was told it was too long for an archetype. I'm thinking of how to rework it into a PrC that allows for anyone with animus to get access to it or as a Charisma-based Alt Class and add some more flavor to it as a whole new tradition of mystic.

-X

[Vhaidara]

Subbing. I will hopefully be using an aurora fist soon, and I plan on using glyphs as well as flux.

I support adept becoming a PRC and getting a less bloated cha archetype. Maybe pick up a bloodrager bloodling in place of glyphs, eldritch scion style?

[Taveena]

I like this one. I'd do that one over a drawback personally.

-X

It'd be pretty great to have a reason not to switch, to be honest? Sometimes you just... really want to play the lightning melee, not the master of all elements.

[Tempestfury]

The OP needs updating to include Omen Rider for the harbringer. Also, whilst we are discussing Stalker Arts, is the Vigilante ever going to get any unique stalker arts of its own? As it lost a significant amount of choices when it lost KI, and what it can actually take from the investigator is rather strongly limited as well.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Vigilante still hasn't gotten an updated recovery method. Have faith, Elric will come through for us.

[Adslahnit]

1. Is errata for Path of War 1 supposed to be lower priority than releasing the rest of Path of War Expanded? Can we expect it before that book is complete, or will it come only afterwards?

2. Is the Murderous Insight stalker art supposed to apply on all of the stalker's attacks for its duration?

[ErrantX]

Subbing. I will hopefully be using an aurora fist soon, and I plan on using glyphs as well as flux.

I support adept becoming a PRC and getting a less bloated cha archetype. Maybe pick up a bloodrager bloodling in place of glyphs, eldritch scion style?

Cool, I'd love to get your feedback on glyphs and how it interacts with your Flux use.

I'm definitely open on an additional Charisma based archetype. I'm trying to put together a Zealot archetype that may end up Wisdom based between other things. So many things! I was thinking of modifying something off of how wilder's wild surge works, or maybe the battle wilder.

It'd be pretty great to have a reason not to switch, to be honest? Sometimes you just... really want to play the lightning melee, not the master of all elements.

Damn straight. Sometimes you just want to freeze a guy solid, electrozap the heck out of someone, melt someone into slag, or burn them to ashes and you wanna do it better than anyone else.

The OP needs updating to include Omen Rider for the harbringer. Also, whilst we are discussing Stalker Arts, is the Vigilante ever going to get any unique stalker arts of its own? As it lost a significant amount of choices when it lost KI, and what it can actually take from the investigator is rather strongly limited as well.

If only I could get write access to Gareth's file for Harbinger archetypes.... I'll add it in shortly.

As far as other vigilante questions...

Vigilante still hasn't gotten an updated recovery method. Have faith, Elric will come through for us.

Right here.

1. Is errata for Path of War 1 supposed to be lower priority than releasing the rest of Path of War Expanded? Can we expect it before that book is complete, or will it come only afterwards?

2. Is the Murderous Insight stalker art supposed to apply on all of the stalker's attacks for its duration?

1. It's not really a matter of priority per se, its more of a matter of what we have time to do and when people are available. We all work day jobs, have other obligations too. We've got some people working through with us on adjusting Blade, Fury, and Serpent (the prime things that really need errata) and the other stuff will just fall together. Gareth and I have collected quite a bit of info. As far as when to expect it? I don't have a clear idea yet. The discipline errata comes first, and then the small rules tweaks, and we'll catch the grammar/spelling things in Ultimate (if we are able to give it a go).

2. Yes. They're literally sensing for weak points in your life force with ki-enhanced senses and limited precognition.

-X