Girl Genius XVIII: Invisible Hand of the Legendary Smoke Knights

[HandofShadows]

Ok, I think folks that we have just seen an excellent piece of writing.

[GorinichSerpant]

Right up until Europa is entirely undermined and caves in on itself due to the thousands of tunnels criss-crossing its underground.

While the mole person in question is wise, he's not particularly smart.

[The Mormegil]

Wait, what? To me, that's pretty clearly not a Dreen.

I still think that's what Dreen look like under the hat. Might not be, but that's what I (maybe erroneously) thought.

[danelsan]

Damn, I'm pretty lost regarding the big overarching time-shenanigans plot in this comic. I don't even recall if it has anything to do with the whole The Other plot or not. I'll probably have to re-read the whole thing, if I ever find the time for the gazillion pages involved in that endeavor...

[eee]

Considering we first saw that Dreen in the Beast-wrecked basement of the monastery, I believe it used to be one of their prisoners. How they ever managed to pull that off remains a mystery.

Also, is anyone else mentally screaming their head off in terror right now?

More in awe at the Foglios' story telling skills. That's impressive.

It would be terror if the Dreen were working for the Other, or out to destroy the world, or were hostile. We don't know enough to regard this as fearful.

Yet.

[tonberrian]

Damn, I'm pretty lost regarding the big overarching time-shenanigans plot in this comic. I don't even recall if it has anything to do with the whole The Other plot or not. I'll probably have to re-read the whole thing, if I ever find the time for the gazillion pages involved in that endeavor...

Mostly, all we've got solid info on is what we assume is Clankrezia (with a funny hat) and Agatha, Gil, a Geister, and von Zinzer have appeared in time windows. The ones with Agatha et. al. definitely are, because we haven't seen the scene from the other side yet. The one with Clankrezia(?) might be - it looks similar, but we don't know much at all.

I think the most important question, though, is why this Dreen cares enough to tell Gil that Agatha is going to be in Paris.

[factotum]

I still think that's what Dreen look like under the hat. Might not be, but that's what I (maybe erroneously) thought.

I think the image pretty clearly shows a metallic texture to skin, which Dreen don't have--compare the hands in that picture with the Dreen's hands today, which are not inside its hat and can be assumed to be its actual hands. Plus, the person in the time window is using a more normal font, not the shaky-text characteristic of the Dreen.

[tonberrian]

Looking back, the last Dreen we met was also focused on Agatha. I wonder why.

[Giggling Ghast]

What does 'tangential to time' mean? Are they aware of their entire timeline, including the future? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

What does 'tangential to time' mean? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept.

Imagine there is one more dimension, inaccessible to you but accessible to the Dreen, that operates like time but (like all other dimension) it is tangentially orthodox to time. That means that a creature capable of perceiving both of those dimensions can choose to move in one, the other, or both. From your "single time dimension" perspective, that means the Dreen can move in frozen time (because it is traversing the other time dimension), or even disappear completely.

Alternatively, imagine that you are a train. Time dimension is your tracks: you move along it, and you can't leave them. The Dreen are like a car: they can follow the tracks, or they can leave the tracks to explore the lands around them.

Grey Wolf

[Aquillion]

You know you are going to get called on that, right?

You mean this comic? I took it to be clankcrezia (and never read something suggesting otherwise, but haven't read much.

It has Lucrezia's lips, so most people have assumed it's her (especially since it's implied the time windows are her tech.) We don't have any real confirmation, though.

[eee]

What does 'tangential to time' mean? Are they aware of their entire timeline, including the future? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept.

It's like the Watchmen character Dr. Manhatten. He knew his past and future as if it were a book he'd read before. He could talk about what was coming on the next page, or remember events on previous pages; but he couldn't change anything or skip parts of the book, he had to read each word in sequence.

[Porthos]

According to the Wiki (and WoG), the first verified time we saw the Dreen was when they were fighting the Slaver Wasps on Castle Wulfenback waaaaaaaaaaay back in the print comic days.

Also, according to the first novelization, the Dreen are one of the only things that the Slaver Wasps were truly afraid of in that fight. Makes sense, knowing what we know of them.

[Lethologica]

It's like the Watchmen character Dr. Manhatten. He knew his past and future as if it were a book he'd read before. He could talk about what was coming on the next page, or remember events on previous pages; but he couldn't change anything or skip parts of the book, he had to read each word in sequence.

Not necessarily. A time-traveller doesn't have to know what he's going to do when he travels back into the past. Manhattan's omniscience is a special case.

[Zazu Yen]

Wait... conical hats, omniscience, the Winslow... the Dreen are Prime Movers!

http://www.airshipentertainment.com/...?date=20080925

[RebelRogue]

Wait... conical hats, omniscience, the Winslow... the Dreen are Prime Movers!

http://www.airshipentertainment.com/...?date=20080925

[Aquatosic]

They sure look a lot different this time around. less robotic, more alien

[Fralex]

According to the Wiki (and WoG), the first verified time we saw the Dreen was when they were fighting the Slaver Wasps on Castle Wulfenback waaaaaaaaaaay back in the print comic days.

Also, according to the first novelization, the Dreen are one of the only things that the Slaver Wasps were truly afraid of in that fight. Makes sense, knowing what we know of them.

"They killed with but a touch, and they alone seemed to scare the Slaver wasps. Everywhere they drifted, a circle of emptiness opened around them as wasps desperately tried to escape."

[tonberrian]

Makes me think that the Dreen were active during the Other War. I'm thinking there's a connection between the Dreen and the wasps.

[Grim Portent]

Makes me think that the Dreen were active during the Other War. I'm thinking there's a connection between the Dreen and the wasps.

Depending on what time/dimensional shenanigans happen with Agatha and Lucrezia it's entirely possible the slaver wasps fought the Dreen sometime in the future before being brought back in time and now have a sort of retroactive racial fear.

[RowenMorland]

Wait... conical hats, omniscience, the Winslow... the Dreen are Prime Movers!

http://www.airshipentertainment.com/...?date=20080925

That lettering

As far as the time windows go, we have someone who looks like The Other dressed as a Dreen in one and Gil dressed as a geisterdamen in another. Some intriguing hints.

[Emperordaniel]

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And of course the monks' neutrality laws meant Martellus had to be on the train with them.

Though I am looking forward to seeing the antics of Squashy and the Beast.

[Qwertystop]

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And of course the monks' neutrality laws meant Martellus had to be on the train with them.

Though I am looking forward to seeing the antics of Squashy and the Beast.

Agreed on point two.

[Aquillion]

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I'm just a bit annoyed that they continue to have Agatha interacting with him without even, you know, mentioning the way he poisoned her. I would expect that to be a higher priority for her.

[Rodin]

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I'm just a bit annoyed that they continue to have Agatha interacting with him without even, you know, mentioning the way he poisoned her. I would expect that to be a higher priority for her.

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Agreed.

One justification I can think of is that they know Martellus won't remove it himself (it's the only insurance he has, and too powerful a control mechanism to give up for virtually any reason) and equally they can't kill him until they can get rid of it themselves. Ergo, there's not much point talking about it.

I suppose they could try to get him to start monologuing about it. He's probably too savvy to fall for that though.

[factotum]

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Well, this just goes to show about the Beast: anyone who hates Martellus can't be all bad.

[Aquillion]

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Agreed.

One justification I can think of is that they know Martellus won't remove it himself (it's the only insurance he has, and too powerful a control mechanism to give up for virtually any reason) and equally they can't kill him until they can get rid of it themselves. Ergo, there's not much point talking about it.

I suppose they could try to get him to start monologuing about it. He's probably too savvy to fall for that though.

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They totally can kill him. They have the weasel, which is sufficient to figure out what he did once they have a better lab. Alternatively, they could cripple him; breaking his vertebrae just below his neck or removing his limbs will eliminate him as a threat completely (based on previous behavior, the house would immediately discard him) -- killing and reviving him would work even better, since it would remove him from the line of succession. Reviving just his head would be best, but I'm not sure they can manage that.

None of these things are necessarily irreversible in the Girl Genius universe, even (aside from reviving him, which would take him out of succession permanently.) It would just remove his ability to meaningfully assert his long-term goals by stripping him of his position in his house and taking him out of the running as a contender for the position of Storm King. He's not like Tarvek; there's been no hint that he has any long-term goals beyond enslaving Agatha in the service of world conquest. I mean, I don't like most of those options, but again, they're not as severe as they are in the real world -- he's a smart boy, he can reverse most damage if they give him a chance.

[Traab]

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They totally can kill him. They have the weasel, which is sufficient to figure out what he did once they have a better lab. Alternatively, they could cripple him; breaking his vertebrae just below his neck or removing his limbs will eliminate him as a threat completely (based on previous behavior, the house would immediately discard him) -- killing and reviving him would work even better, since it would remove him from the line of succession. Reviving just his head would be best, but I'm not sure they can manage that.

None of these things are necessarily irreversible in the Girl Genius universe, even (aside from reviving him, which would take him out of succession permanently.) It would just remove his ability to meaningfully assert his long-term goals by stripping him of his position in his house and taking him out of the running as a contender for the position of Storm King. He's not like Tarvek; there's been no hint that he has any long-term goals beyond enslaving Agatha in the service of world conquest. I mean, I don't like most of those options, but again, they're not as severe as they are in the real world -- he's a smart boy, he can reverse most damage if they give him a chance.

Too be fair, they already "discarded" martellus once. He came back and slaughtered his way back to power in under a week. I dont think using the revival option would do much to slow him down. He doesnt care much about rules, just about attaining his goals.

[petersohn]

It seems that Agatha just realized that Martellus acts much like Dingbot!Beast.

[sherlock]

In latest updates the Foglio's are really inspired.
One better than the other.
The Ding-Beast ... well, just like Agatha, I'm becoming quite fond of it.
And the exchange of words between Dimo and Wooster is simply ROTFL! I mean, the quiet smile of Wooster, while he admits that a kill gives a better taste to tea ...