My Little Pony LXXXVIII: They told me not to Ponythread, but I didn't listen!

[Aotrs Commander]

Sex does not give you stat bonuses, why does everyone jump to that conclusion? Have a look at the Driver, the Operator and the Hardholder's specials. They're fragments of profoundly screwed up relationships and fears of intimacy. Have a look at the Brainer's, for goodness sake. You don't so much get a stat bonus as you involuntarily experience all of your partner's most profound fears, weaknesses and sins. Imagine what happens when any two of those hit each other.

(and then there's the gunlugger who does get a straight up stat bonus, but he's a simple man in a minefield of crazy)

Because I looked at precisely two of the classes (the first two) which appeared to give you some sort of bonus, though honestly I barely even skimmed those sections beyond "if you have you get a +Hx bonuses or something..." and seeing the opportunity to have a cheap shot at AW and PoE...!



If this is a common occurance, it is likely merely just a case of Tome of Battle's Alphabetical Problem Syndrome (caused in thast case by listing Desert Wind (the most wuxia/anime-y of all the schools) first, making people think that was the rule, not the exception and putting people off ToB for it being "too wuxia/anime.")

[Thanqol]

Because I looked at precisely two of the classes (the first two) which appeared to give you some sort of bonus, though honestly I barely even skimmed those section beyond "if you have you get a +Hx bonuses or something..." and saw the oppotunity to have a cheap shot at AW and PoE...!

The first one, Angel, gives a HX boost. HX isn't a good thing necessarily, it's how vulnerable you are to the other person. The Battlebabe, the second one, has a special that nullifies the other person's sex move. The third one is the Brainer, which I mentioned, and it's horrible.

You've already got a legitimate reason to say Apocalypse World is not for you - it's a narrativist system without a single exploding spaceship.


And because this is still a horse thread, CARTOON HORSE PROGRAM!

[Aotrs Commander]

The first one, Angel, gives a HX boost. HX isn't a good thing necessarily, it's how vulnerable you are to the other person. The Battlebabe, the second one, has a special that nullifies the other person's sex move. The third one is the Brainer, which I mentioned, and it's horrible.

Like I say, I was mainly making a joke, rather than being critical. Largely because Pillar of Eternity's "sleeping with prostitutes gives you massive stats bonuses" strikes me as completely hilarious. Especially given all the grognards getting smug about there being "none of those childish Bioware romances."

You've already got a legitimate reason to say Apocalypse World is not for you - it's a narrativist system without a single exploding spaceship.

Yes, that too!

And because this is still a horse thread, CARTOON HORSE PROGRAM!

That is also hilarious.

[DigoDragon]

In AW there's a huge scope for PVP conflict and not a really strong 'main plot' to speak of. If you feel ignored you have all the tools you need to ruin everyone else's days, and are encouraged to do so.

AW isn't even remotely team based.

Then AW is definitely not for me. I've lost two local groups from exactly that kind of premise.

Spoiler: Bad Memories

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Objection! Based off the movies, he starts off in a cave with a box of scraps.

He also had to learn how to build most of the iconic parts of the Iron Man suit, like the repulsor blasters and the jet boots (that scene never gets old). Tony had the high INT, but had to invest a few ranks in some skills to get to where he is now.

How are these things scheduled anyway? Like, how many skipped weeks are there, is there a long summer break, if there is, is it in July or August, and when is the last episode?

My theory:

Spoiler: Dartboards

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I fear that Thanqol is gravely underselling AW here.

Well thus far I'm probably not going to actively seek out an AW game. :/

I love me some post-apocalypse setting, but I'm about everyday folks banding together, forging friendships and surviving the wasteland together.

I don't love the style, but super cute:

Definitely cute. I really like that outfit on her.

without a single exploding spaceship.

There's a friend from my former group who had this great idea for a sci-fi game: PCs ply any alien they want. They all start off as specimen prisoners on an advanced alien ship, have to work together to break out and defeat the curator of the ship that held them hostage. The ship itself is titanic-- like it's own dungeon world, with places that have been long unused by the curator and thus things have taken residence...

[TheAmishPirate]

Been at this for years and it still doesn't work! You're probably right, the best experiences I have of selling AW to people is not by selling it to them, it's by saying "We're playing Apocalypse World today," and asking them what they thought at the end of the session.

For me, I just tell people stories of all the incredible shenanigans we get up to as a direct result of the rules. Once I've told them about what the system's capable of, then I go more into the theory and stuff behind it. So far folks have seemed real interested.

Friendly rivalry is perfectly fine with me; everyone in the boat rowing in opposite directions or "me against the world" gameplay is not.

Then AW is definitely not for me. I've lost two local groups from exactly that kind of premise.

Well thus far I'm probably not going to actively seek out an AW game. :/

I love me some post-apocalypse setting, but I'm about everyday folks banding together, forging friendships and surviving the wasteland together.

I'ma step in here and provide a perspective that might help balance with Thanqol's.

See, he's described the system at the far end of what it is capable of. If you'll remember that story he told a while back of AotrS's dad and how two players basically teamed up to wreck the rest of the party, AW can handle that just fine. But I think calling it a system where the party is against each other is doing the system a disservice.

Rather, I'd call it a system where you can both pursue different agendas and deal with whatever new pile of nonsense threatens the Wasteland this week. All without the game falling apart. Take the Snowfall pony game going on right now; we have one character interested in your basic, simple heroics, one character fixated on the idea of preparing the world for the coming Spring, one character delving into strange and kooky science stuff - including possibly curing violence itself - and one character who doesn't buy all this Spring nonsense and just wants to live while she can. All of us are pursuing these goals with the tools we have available, and nobody is actively working against anyone else. And yet, when nightmarish creatures start to threaten the city, we all collectively hitch up our belts and fight back as best as we can. We're not a formal adventuring party, our personalities clash at times, but we get stuff done. We might not all be aiming at the same goals 100% of the time, and we may butt heads over that, but the system handles it in such a way that everybody goes home satisfied. And we have some darn fine adventure while we're at it.

But you don't have to take my word for it; read on.

See, if you'd left it at this, I would've been more inclined to go "Sure, sounds interesting; I'll give it a crack if I have the chance". Now I'm slightly wary of it due to past experiences of having games hyped up, only to have my expectations brutally crushed by the actual experience. "It's all about playing different character archetypes who are struggling against a post-Apocalyptic setting, but the best way to learn it is to play it" is a perfectly acceptable sales pitch to someone like me, though you're probably better off trying to sell me the setting, rather than the mechanics/archetypes.

See, part of the problem is that AW has very few setting bits that are set in stone. So long as it's a post-apocalyptic world of scarcity, and there's some manner of strange, alien, psychic/magic/wibbly wobbly maelstrom of strangeness, then you're good.

But in the interest of not accidentally turning more people off of a system I've well enjoyed, I shall hush, and instead just point to the link above.

[Aotrs Commander]

Then AW is definitely not for me. I've lost two local groups from exactly that kind of premise.

Spoiler: Bad Memories

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Indeed. The only party we ever did where the DM was trying to get us to play the way Thanq's group does basically collapsed (and I even ended up going to the DM and changing my character from a hilarious Chaotic Evil Fighter Thief to an LE anti-paladin just to try and keep some cohension together.)

I am thus always roundly impressed Thanq's group manages to sustain that dynamic so beautifully: I'd be jealous if it wasn't, like, the opposite end of the spectrum to me! (Reading his stories of the group is like reading that chap who wrote up his camapign with the succubus paladin - it was a fascinating read and must have been a blast to play, but I never could have managed it!)

I think my Dad's comparison to jazz is probably very apt.



Though I imagine both Thanq and I could play in each other's games (I mean if my Dad can, I'd be sort of obliged, wouldn't I?) and have a thoroughly pleasant time, if it was perhaps not something we would do as regularly, given our disparate styles!

[Rater202]

You don't need a specific system for PVP anyway.

My best friend from highschool once tried to use a modified version of one of Aces & Eights to play a space western, but we ended up derailing it into a space mafia war, with various alliances and backstabbing among factions.

The various factions consisted entirely of player characters.

[Aotrs Commander]

You don't need a specific system for PVP anyway.

No, you need the right sort of players, which is a commodity in MUCH shorter supply! (At least to be able to sustain the game for any length of time.)

[Thanqol]

Indeed. The only party we ever did where the DM was trying to get us to play the way Thanq's group does basically collapsed (and I even ended up going to the DM and changing my character from a hilarious Chaotic Evil Fighter Thief to an LE anti-paladin just to try and keep some cohension together.)

I am thus always roundly impressed Thanq's group manages to sustain that dynamic so beautifully: I'd be jealous if it wasn't, like, the opposite end of the spectrum to me! (Reading his stories of the group is like reading that chap who wrote up his camapign with the succubus paladin - it was a fascinating read and must have been a blast to play, but I never could have managed it!)

Man, my Sunday group isn't even my best group. They're kind of like the B-party of my gaming life, I just talk about them here 'cause they're into ponies more. My Tuesday group are the ones to watch out for. I am the newbie chump in the Tuesday group.

Though I imagine both Thanq and I could play in each other's games (I mean if my Dad can, I'd be sort of obliged, wouldn't I?) and have a thoroughly pleasant time, if it was perhaps not something we would do as regularly, given our disparate styles!

Oh yeah, I have no doubt. And I think that's something really awesome to think about - despite what The Internet would have you believe, we're not destined to be blood enemies because I think the highest expression of culture is crying ponies and you think it's exploding space ships!

It's good to know the little horses are onto something with that whole unique individual styles coming together thing.

You don't need a specific system for PVP anyway.

I think you do. You need a system that allows interference in other people's goals without the situation escalating straight to murder.

[Rater202]

And that is entirely roleplay, with the exception of maybe a few skill rolls when doing so requires NPC interaction.

You can do that with any system.

[DigoDragon]

Rather, I'd call it a system where you can both pursue different agendas and deal with whatever new pile of nonsense threatens the Wasteland this week. All without the game falling apart.

My personal experience is that it is more something you need a like-minded group for, not a system. I can have such a premise in Shadowrun or D&D. But if I got a group that does not get along, no system will survive them.

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No, you need the right sort of players, which is a commodity in MUCH shorter supply!

Exactly. I attribute the lion's share of my successful campaigns to the players who had the right mindset to make the ideas work.

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[TheAmishPirate]

You don't need a specific system for PVP anyway.

No, you need the right sort of players, which is a commodity in MUCH shorter supply! (At least to be able to sustain the game for any length of time.)

And that is entirely roleplay, with the exception of maybe a few skill rolls when doing so requires NPC interaction.

You can do that with any system.

My personal experience is that it is more something you need a like-minded group for, not a system. I can have such a premise in Shadowrun or D&D. But if I got a group that does not get along, no system will survive them.

Exactly. I attribute the lion's share of my successful campaigns to the players who had the right mindset to make the ideas work.

And here we have another fascinating topic! Yay!

...one which I cannot go nearly into the depths that I'd like to at the moment, but I'll give the short version as best as I can.

Ya'll are absolutely right that a good tabletop group can make games incredible, and do things that other groups could never pull off. Conversely, a group that doesn't get along could be handed lemonade in a golden pitcher, and get into an argument over how much sugar is bad for you and also lemons are stupid anyway. This is how tabletop works; when stuff that happens out of the game and stuff that happens in the game mix, you get disaster.

What I am saying is that a good system can help steer a group towards better games, better playing habits, and better behavior. The feedback it gives and the behaviors it rewards can have a huge impact on the players. Plus, it can help them avoid pitfalls they might not have even been looking out for. It won't save a failing group, and it won't be strictly necessary for a great group, but it can push players towards making more positive games. When you have good tools, the work comes out better.

I think you do. You need a system that allows interference in other people's goals without the situation escalating straight to murder.

^This. A good tabletop group can be inventive and creative with how their characters might disagree, and how they resolve those differences. But the onus is on them, because all the system can do is tell them how to whack each other with swords. Give those same players a system that straight-up gives them really interesting ways to disagree without violence, and now they can have more of their focus on telling a good story.

It's like power steering. If you have a good enough driver with beefy enough arms, then they can drive that car just fine. But with a better steering system in place, then more people can drive better, and the good drivers can drive great.

It's not a perfect comparison, but that's what you get on early Friday morning.

[Aotrs Commander]

And that is entirely roleplay, with the exception of maybe a few skill rolls when doing so requires NPC interaction.

You can do that with any system.

Eeeh...

No, I think Thanq's right. If that is your intention, you want a system that's set up better than, say D&D or Rolemaster (which are largely PARTY-based RPGs, where in the overall "balance" is expected to come from everypony working together). Something that is set towards the narrative style of play; something a bit mechanically softer, if you catch my meaning.

Something like AW is batter-suited to that style of roleplay.

I mean, you can play 40K tactics with Manuver Group, it just won't last very long because everyone will be dead... And you can't easily use Manouvre Group tactics in BattleTech (I know, I tried and failed abyssmally!) (Well, not without a bit of tweaking anyway...)

You can roleplay with ANY set of rules, absolutely; but some forms of roleplaying require some non-mechanical rules (because otherwise, you get, well - look at my eample. An otherwise pretty stable group of players ended up self-destrucing the party, pretty much!) My impression from what Thanq says the clever bits of AW are more in, I dunno, codifiying a gentleman's agreement of how you are going to roleplay?

[DigoDragon]

When you have good tools, the work comes out better.

I can agree with this statement in general.

The specifics is what tools are folks comfortable with or prefer to use. Some are strangely fun:

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Her name is Sparkles, and she will bring hearts and other metal objects together at 370°F.

Best soldering gun ever.

[McNum]

I can agree with this statement in general.

The specifics is what tools are folks comfortable with or prefer to use. Some are strangely fun:

Spoiler

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Her name is Sparkles, and she will bring hearts and other metal objects together at 370°F.

Best soldering gun ever.

Spoiler: Strangely fun tool

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I think that's the first soldering pony I've seen, ever. How do you even hold that in a comfortable way? At least the mane has been bunched up so it doesn't reach the tip, but still... I don't see how to use that.

It is pretty awesome, of course, so Rule of Cool applies.

[TheAmishPirate]

I can agree with this statement in general.

The specifics is what tools are folks comfortable with or prefer to use. Some are strangely fun:

Spoiler

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Her name is Sparkles, and she will bring hearts and other metal objects together at 370°F.

Best soldering gun ever.

Never did I ever think I would see a unicorn with a smoking horn, nor did I think the sight would be this terrifying.

[Thanqol]

My impression from what Thanq says the clever bits of AW are more in, I dunno, codifiying a gentleman's agreement of how you are going to roleplay?

Yeah. A lot of gaming groups have worked out through trial and error some basic social rules - what the GM can and can't do, how much say one person has over other people's characters, that kind of thing. AW brings a bunch of them forward and makes them explicit rules. The MC section looks a lot like just a chapter of excellent GMing advice, and a lot of the MC moves are just things that GMs sometimes do. One move is 'capture someone', GMs do that all the time, but AW sets out the circumstances when it's legit for you to go and capture someone (when someone fails a roll, when everyone is looking at you to say what happens next).

System is important because the backup to system is always the same thing: Principled Freeform. You could roleplay Chess if you really wanted to, but in the absence of any formal rules it'd basically be a Principled Freeform. I think Principled Freeforms are kind of exhausting because it's not about coming at people hard, it's about gently persuading them step by step to accept the premises that will eventually lead up to the outcome you want. A system lets you come at people hard and without having to justify yourself.

[DigoDragon]

It is pretty awesome, of course, so Rule of Cool applies.

Yeah it is definitely one of those impractical, but cool little gadgets.

Never did I ever think I would see a unicorn with a smoking horn, nor did I think the sight would be this terrifying.

I'm reminded of Twilight in Too Many Pinkie Pies.

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That's got to be a fire hazard...

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[b_jonas]

I'm reminded of Twilight in Too Many Pinkie Pies.

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That's got to be a fire hazard...

Yes, but on the other hand, some people like roasted marshmallows.

[DigoDragon]

Cutie Mark Crusaders, Yay!

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[Aotrs Commander]

Bleakbane Watches:

Baby Cakes:

I like this episode. On the one hand it proves poyn genetics and pony superpowers... And on the other we get to see that Pinkie isn't quite all carefree, forthwall breaking anarchic larks. It was really good to see her dealing (mostly) with real reponsibility, and honestly, just to see her doing a few relatively normal things.

Day count: 2, one month apart.

Hearth's Warming Eve

Notably for basically being a heap-load of well-delivered world-building, this episode also is notable in that AJ finally got an angle. It had been obvious in the previous season that aside from Apples and Apple Accessories that the writers ahdn't quite worked out what to do with AJ yet. Here we see the first proper example of snarky-AJ and it was astonishingly welcome! She is argueably the most stable of the Mane Cast (though it's still something of a toss-up between her and Spike) and she makes the ideal straight pony.

Day count: One plus presumably one for Hearth's Warming itself (both winter)

The Last Round Up (Proper version with proper Derpy in it, what I especially bought that very first DVD just to ensure I would have)

In which Derpy completely upstages AJ in her own episode. (Though really,while it's about Applejack, she's more on the obstacle than the protagonist this episode). And AJ continues to demonstrate her streak of quite remarkable idiocy in a ususually fairly level-headed pony. To paraphase the words of the song, Applejack is a very silly pony...

Day count: one week (during which AJ is out of town - though this might give some latitude to any episode where AJ is completely abscent), plus at least one day.



Current day count: 41 plus 53-68 estimate for Season 1 (1 autumn, 2 winter plus 4 autumn, 1 winter estimate from Season 1)

[MCerberus]

You know what...
...
I have nothing

Spoiler: They told me not to post meme pics

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[Rater202]

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[t209]

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So Sunset Shimmer became Phoenix.
Oh no, Twilight Sparkle will embrace it and annihilate her mentor, like the horrible Avengers vs. X-Men storyline.

[Rater202]

So Sunset Shimmer became Phoenix.
Oh no, Twilight Sparkle will embrace it and annihilate her mentor, like the horrible Avengers vs. X-Men storyline.

I do believe you missed the joke.

[Topaz]

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Yuubaemon!

[Gavinfoxx]

Not particularly. It's still a hack of a RPG based off a computer game from the 90s. I don't regret the year long campaign I played with it but I wouldn't do it again.

The other side of it is that Apocalypse World is objectively the superior system for gaming in the post apocalypse.

Well, I'd probably prefer to play Apocalypse World with my real life group, but I have a serious nostalgia-on for Fallout, SPECIAL and perks and skill points that go up to 100 being the main reason, and I think FoE does that really really well!

I mean, I'm putting achievement perks and quest perks and trained perks and book perks into this game, it's like all the best content-adding fallout new vegas mods, you know? It's super easy to just drop those in, which is what I'm going for.

[DigoDragon]

This is cute, the creator put a magnet* in this plushie's mouth so it can hold objects.

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*Auto-correct wanted to write 'pageant' for whatever reason.

[t209]

I do believe you missed the joke.

I know about the joke.
Just that I wanted to pop some Avengers vs. X-Men joke since I don't read Phoenix Saga.

[Thanqol]

It's comic catch up day!

I actually really liked the Fiendship series. The cover art with those skull tattoos are awesome. The stories were a bit of a mixed bag in terms of quality one but the Chrysalis one was just amazing, perfect from start to finish.

Also, the artist who did the Cheerilee WWE one just has a fantastic style. The ponies are rounded and squishy and cuddly and smiley and it's one of my favourite horse comic styles.