Polymorph and natural attacks

[panaikhan]

Hi :)

I've been looking through the various ways of changing shape for a spellcaster.
One thing I've noticed, is a total lack of mention of attacks.
It doesn't say you gain any attack methods.
It doesn't say you lose any attack methods.

If you have attack methods (such as a bite, or claws, or whichever) and you change into a shape that obviously doesn't preclude them - do you keep them, and if so are they modified in any way?

[Andreaz]

Unless it states it's a partial transformation, you should lose them, as well as all your previous movement methods on most polymorphs, since they replace your form with another.

[Psyren]

Hi :)

I've been looking through the various ways of changing shape for a spellcaster.
One thing I've noticed, is a total lack of mention of attacks.
It doesn't say you gain any attack methods.
It doesn't say you lose any attack methods.

If you have attack methods (such as a bite, or claws, or whichever) and you change into a shape that obviously doesn't preclude them - do you keep them, and if so are they modified in any way?

All that is covered under the polymorph descriptor in the Magic section.

Polymorph: a polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature.

...

In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.

...

While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.

So to answer your question - yes, you'd lose them, even if the new form doesn't replace them with anything. However, if they are abilities that can be added back on (like the above example of a draconic sorcerer's claws) you can do that after you change shape, so long as whatever ability gives them to you is not itself a polymorph effect or based on a polymorph effect.

[Segev]

Tangential thought, but one of the weirdest things I've noticed is that, technically, if you polymorph into a Beholder, you don't gain its flight speed. It's listed as an (Ex) ability, and is not an attack. So you only get the 5 ft. ground speed.

[Psyren]

Tangential thought, but one of the weirdest things I've noticed is that, technically, if you polymorph into a Beholder, you don't gain its flight speed. It's listed as an (Ex) ability, and is not an attack. So you only get the 5 ft. ground speed.

Yeah, there's a lot of confusion over 3.5's Ex Special Qualities vs. Ex Special Attacks vs. Natural Abilities.

I'll point out though that in PF this is a moot point as there is currently no way (that I know of anyway) to polymorph into an aberration.