Arkentools

[darkgolem]

The Arkentools, IMHO, are the tools the titans used to create the world. A hammer, some pliers, maybe a screwdriver and a wrench, whatever. The tians are giant elvises (elvi? .. whatever). Anyway, they left them lying around when they finished, and they were found by mortals.

So no, no arkenblowtorch, no arkendish, nothing like that, in my view.

[TheTurnipKing]

All this trying to second guess Stanley from what little we've seen of him, and very little acceptance of the fact that we have NO idea what Charlies motives are. Maybe he really is just a mercenary sod.

[SteveMB]

One possibility is that it's an artifact but not an Arkentool.

It occurs to me that this distinction (at least insofar as exactly four known objects fall into the latter category) might be a function of the Erfworlders' own nomenclature. It's like the question of why certain ancient structures and not others were among the Seven Wonders of the World -- ultimately, the answer comes down to "that's what was included in the generally accepted list".

EDIT: Well, we now have confirmation that Erfworlders recognize the existence of artifacts that are not Arkentools.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Fat chance. Appeasement hasn't worked in the real world, and is unlikely to have any less disastrous consequences in Erfworld. The situation is even similar in some respects--a coalition against a megalomaniacal dictator bent on world domination (you don't suppose, do you, that he wants the Arkentools just to put them in a display case?).

Oh sure, in reality. But don't tell me there's no Daimyo Kubota equivalents on Ansom's side. It's certainly possible that Ansom

a) Knows what Stanley wants.
b) Realises it's a bad idea to give it to him.
c) Would hide these facts from his allies.

It doesn't have to a "crime" (assuming some sort of international law exists) for it to threaten and/or offend your neighbours. I can think of quite a good example from a real war but I can't find any guidelines in the Rules of Posting about how recent something has to be for it to be considered inappropriate...

No, you're missing the point. Ansom isn't about to justify a long and bloody war to Vinnie by saying "He's trying to get four powerful artifacts!" No, he's going to justify it to Vinnie by pointing out all the actual evil Stanley has committed. Aquiring powerful artifacts, although potentially dangerous, is not really the epitomy of evil. Murder and genocide, those things will get Vinnie on side.

It would be odd if they were simply charicatures of heroes from literature but they're not: The world of Erf has more in common with a computer strategy game than any novel and there is a tendency in computer games (depending on quality) to adopt a "Kill all the Bad Guys because they are bad! Why are they bad? Because they're the Bad Guys!" mentality.

And yet they also have philosophical arguments on the nature of morality with each other. It's true, Ansom does reflect something of a "Kill the bad guys because they're bad" mentality in this conversation, but he does it with justification. Even Vinnie agrees that, regardless of Ansom's motives, Stanley "must be stopped". Ansom, perhaps I accept, would do something like this without fully understanding why Stanley is doing what he's doing. But level-headed Vinnie wouldn't. He'd want to understand, if for no other reason than to satisfy his curiosity, what exactly makes Stanley tick. And I don't think he'd go to war without finding out exactly what he was up against.

[Dolohov]

No, you're missing the point. Ansom isn't about to justify a long and bloody war to Vinnie by saying "He's trying to get four powerful artifacts!" No, he's going to justify it to Vinnie by pointing out all the actual evil Stanley has committed. Aquiring powerful artifacts, although potentially dangerous, is not really the epitomy of evil. Murder and genocide, those things will get Vinnie on side.

Huh? Vinny stated pretty clearly that he'd been attacked by Stanley, that's why he's in this. Not only is Ansom not trying to convince Vinny of the importance of the war, Vinny doesn't even really know why Ansom is fighting.

[Scientivore]

I disagree with all of you! HAHA!

*cough* Sorry what I mean is, my reading of it is that Vinny is in it because of Ansom. I'll grant that it's possible that I'm reading too much into his, "You know I gotcher back no matter what" (page 34), but that's how I see it. Vinny's tragic flaw is personal loyalty. His statement that Stanley attacked him was in the context of listing off "what Stanley has done" so that he could point out what Stanley hadn't done -- namely, anything worse to Jetstone than "[croak] a few field units" -- and then press his dawg about the real reason why they were there. "...it's the royalty thing, ain't it?"

[Bogardan_Mage]

Huh? Vinny stated pretty clearly that he'd been attacked by Stanley, that's why he's in this. Not only is Ansom not trying to convince Vinny of the importance of the war, Vinny doesn't even really know why Ansom is fighting.

That's not really what I was trying to say, but I'll take it. In that case, Ansom's lack of references to the Arkentools merely reflects the fact that it isn't the reason he's fighting.

Honestly, enough with the nitpicking. If someone has an argument about the topic, post it. Don't just point out holes in my argument that are irrelevant to what we're trying to discuss. I don't mind being told that my arguments have holes, but there's only so many times someone can point out a detail that has no impact on my overall point. Think of the big picture when reading my posts.

[BFJT]

Has anyone mentioned that the arken tools are over sized in this world for everyone BUT Parson? Hopefully that means something good for him?

P.S. I think the satellite is only a item, it looks like it has the same use as the hats but just with buildings instead of individual people. Just my observations.

[Rugueux DeVere]

*raises hand* has anyone thought that maybe the dish is what allows Charlie to have his telepathy service? Someone asked what waves the dish sent and recieved, why not thoughts? It could be an artifact that allows him to communicate with thought to certain people. And he also sells this service, as stated by the Archons. This would allow it to be an artifact but not an Arkentool... Just a thought.

[Aquillion]

Bogardan: Charlie may have offered his Archons' services knowing full well Stanley would not accept them, but wanting to appear neutral. And to encourage Ansom to pay him money to keep him off Stanley's side. He may also be certain Stanley is going to lose, with or without Archons, and figured that by staying out of the conflict without cash he would stand a good chance of getting paid, from one side or the other.

He might also feel that conflict with anyone who holds an arkentool is inevitable eventually, and just views Ansom as the more dangerous threat. Hence, he was willing to ally with Stanley to get Ansom out of the picture, even though he knows Stanley will turn on him eventually.

...personally, though, I don't think Charlie has an Arkentool. Everything that has to do with the angels seems to have a different, otherworldly look to it, and I think that that's just supposed to represent the fact that they're not ordinary people.

[rosebud]

I'm hoping Sizemore finds the Arkenplunger.

[OnDroid]

Chariles satellite dish probably is NOT an Arkentool. All this Charlie thing is a joke about Charlies Angels (film and other). Also explains why he is a mercenary.

[Firestar27]

Actually, the satellite dish probably is an arkentool because our newest artifact (the mathamancy watch) is not prerendered. So only arkentools are prerendered. Unless the mathamancy watch is an artifact, but the incredibly powerful (it might be very powerful, but not at the top). Then prerendered just means that it is in the top rankings for power. That seems more likely because the arkentools are Tools. Such as hammer, pliers, (and maybe saw ((it's a tool and it's funny)) and maybe something else).

[FredRalphFred]

Actually, the satellite dish probably is an arkentool because our newest artifact (the mathamancy watch) is not prerendered. So only arkentools are prerendered. . . .

If that's the case, then Parson throws away two tools every morning.

Satellite dish is not an "Arkentool." (Both confirmed Arkentools can also be wielded or carried -- try that with a satellite dish. In scale it looked like one of the large ones that network affiliates use for an uplink -- 39', maybe?)

[Fuzzypaws]

Not to mention that the mathemancy watch isn't actually an artifact.

[jindra34]

How about we let this disscusion on whether the satelite dish is an arkentool sit until we have a chance to gather more evidence on the matter from the comic...

[Pyrian]

How about we let this disscusion on whether the satelite dish is an arkentool sit until we have a chance to gather more evidence on the matter from the comic...

Don't be silly. We can only have good discussions on things about which we don't have much evidence.

[jindra34]

Don't be silly. We can only have good discussions on things about which we don't have much evidence.

I am asking for more evidence not diffinitive evidence on the subject because right now the disscusion has presented every part of the argument at least twice...

[Freederick]

If that's the case, then Parson throws away two tools every morning.

If you are referring to the Stupid Meal containers (as I am guessing after carefully examining the strip you quoted), they are not prerendered--I fail to understand where that notion comes from. Their appearance is no different than any other items in the comic. As a matter of fact, the Arkenhammer appears in the same panel, lying on the same table; the difference in rendering technique is obvious.

[FredRalphFred]

If you are referring to the Stupid Meal containers (as I am guessing after carefully examining the strip you quoted), they are not prerendered--I fail to understand where that notion comes from. Their appearance is no different than any other items in the comic. As a matter of fact, the Arkenhammer appears in the same panel, lying on the same table; the difference in rendering technique is obvious.

Yes, I am referring to the containers. The "difference in rendering technique" is far from obvious to me.

Hammer, yes -- that looks different to me. But the Charlie's satellite dish and Parson's Stupid Meals look like they were done the same way to me.

And they both sparkle.

Great.

At least the Stupid Meal is sized to be portable.

[jindra34]

And they both sparkle.

Great.

At least the Stupid Meal is sized to be portable.

The sparkle is a sign of a magical effect... Parson sparkled a bit when he went 'plot' too... and the scrolls sparkle and the dust sparkled... i hope people get the idea...