Final Fantasy Record Keeper

[Chen]

This event really does look like a bust in terms characters and items. Both Sabin and Edgar are worse than people we already have. The relic banner is pretty weak too. Spears and Gloves are not used by many people at all, nor are thrown weapons. The only decent one is the cure helm IMO, and I don't think its worth rolling on for just 1 good item. I'll do the 100 crystal roll and that's it.

Hopefully they kept the skill rewards though. Slowga, Alexander and Kirin are all nice. Granted I have 2 of those 3 already, but hey objectively they're still very good rewards. And who knows when I may need a second Slowga for something (I can't see needing a second Kirin though).

[Red Fel]

This event really does look like a bust in terms characters and items. Both Sabin and Edgar are worse than people we already have.

Isn't that true of almost all of the event characters? I mean, aside from the healers, are there any event characters who are a serious upgrade over the ones we already have? And Sephiroth doesn't count, now that he's been canonized.

Look, Lenna, Garnet, and Aerith are all fantastic healers. No question. But instead look at some of the non-healers we've gotten. Squall is a weaker Cloud. Balthier isn't worth discussing. Fran could be better. Quistis is barely noticeable. DK!Cecil is disappointing. Red XIII is a travesty. Even Paladin!Cecil is, at best, passable. And you can argue that some of these (e.g. Red XIII) become amazing with their relic weapons, or as RWs, which is fair. But ultimately, everything we get outside of events is pretty good; everything else is situational at best.

Sabin and Edgar are good. Not amazing, but good. They become much better when VI is involved. It's the same reason you keep a half dozen different swords in your inventory - record synergy is a heck of a thing.

The relic banner is pretty weak too. Spears and Gloves are not used by many people at all, nor are thrown weapons. The only decent one is the cure helm IMO, and I don't think its worth rolling on for just 1 good item. I'll do the 100 crystal roll and that's it.

Yeah, I'm gonna try it once and then forget it. I'm not optimistic about the outcome. But a crappy five-star is still a five-star, and I wouldn't say no to it.

[DiscipleofBob]

Better a new Spear, Glove, or (please) Thrown weapon than another sword. I'd like to actually use some of those characters thank you very much.

[Red Fel]

Better a new Spear, Glove, or (please) Thrown weapon than another sword. I'd like to actually use some of those characters thank you very much.

Oh, a thrown weapon would be delightful. I mean, sure, I have the Killer Bow, so Wakka or Fran can do adequate damage from the back row, but a really nice thrown weapon would be swell. Locke needs to not be on the front lines.

I'd take the glove, too. I could use one of those. Josef doesn't even bother with the gloves I have, and he's a freaking Monk.

[Deadline]

Isn't that true of almost all of the event characters? I mean, aside from the healers, are there any event characters who are a serious upgrade over the ones we already have? And Sephiroth doesn't count, now that he's been canonized.

Well, Terra and Celes are pretty awesome.

[T.G. Oskar]

Isn't that true of almost all of the event characters? I mean, aside from the healers, are there any event characters who are a serious upgrade over the ones we already have? And Sephiroth doesn't count, now that he's been canonized.

Note that some of the "current" event people came previously. Considering you didn't mention Tidus, Terra, Locke or Celes, I presume you're taking...I dunno, the last six or seven events, right? Note that DK!Cecil and Paladin!Cecil were some of the first guys to come, and probably the second that returned (Tidus was the first one to return, no?)

I mean, if you take "recent" events, Tidus is actually pretty good.

Look, Lenna, Garnet, and Aerith are all fantastic healers. No question.

Explain how Aerith/Aeris and Garnet are "fantastic" compared to, say, Vanille. I agree with Lenna only because she can use Bows, meaning that with a good bow she can contribute in combat while staying in the back row (the only other character able to pull that, IMO, is Rosa, and she's missing). Probably their MND stats? Or maybe having a cure-all SB?

But instead look at some of the non-healers we've gotten. Squall is a weaker Cloud. Balthier isn't worth discussing. Fran could be better. Quistis is barely noticeable. DK!Cecil is disappointing. Red XIII is a travesty. Even Paladin!Cecil is, at best, passable. And you can argue that some of these (e.g. Red XIII) become amazing with their relic weapons, or as RWs, which is fair. But ultimately, everything we get outside of events is pretty good; everything else is situational at best.

• Cloud steps forward because he has an unusual combination of ability proficiencies - Spellblade and Samurai, meaning he can use spellblade abilities and Retaliate. IMO, there's only one character that can outright annihilate Cloud in his own game, and it's not Sephiroth; that said, it depends on whether they release Final Fantasy Tactics characters. As I mentioned, it's one of the two people I'd permanently replace the Keeper with.
• Balthier is...well, it relies on a good gun, but it's not so bad. The problem here is comparing Balthier with Locke, which is the top speed character and can use throwing weapons, meaning it can stay on the back row without problems (not to mention his higher Attack). The only reason Locke is superior to Balthier in my team is because Locke has his relic weapon, while Balthier doesn't, and the Altair can only take you so far. However, IMO, Balthier and Locke are pretty tied up.
• Fran suffers from the "second option" problem of recent events - much like Red XIII, Wakka and...maybe Quistis, they seem to be weaker than the one you get at the end.
• DK!Cecil, IIRC, got fixed a bit. Leon is, ironically, a better Dark Knight than Cecil; that said, DK!Cecil right now is the top HP character, and top 3 on attack, so he's a very solid attacker. Not to mention, it has Blood Weapon as a base SB, which means it has pretty nice endurance. I don't see the disappointment.
• I can agree with that. Red XIII's only saving grace is Lunatic High, and that's better as a RW ability.
• Pally!Cecil, on the other hand, is actually good. Sure, it has weak White Magic, but that means at least covering up with Protect or Shell whenever necessary, has high Combat skills (Double Cut/Bladeblitz?) and the highest Defense in the game; its base SB stacks with Protectga/Shellga, and its second Record Materia is phenomenal (judging by the third, which supposedly gives you a chance of recovering HP when getting hit...) I have to call bias on that one.

One more thing: how things outside of events are better than those in events? I don't think I need to remind you of Core Characters, who other than the Keeper (and even then!) are strictly worse. Wakka has been already surpassed by other event-based characters, Josef is about the only Monk around, Gordon suffers from his Red Mage focus, Cyan isn't the best Retaliator around (at least compared to Cloud and Mama's Boy)...

Sabin and Edgar are good. Not amazing, but good. They become much better when VI is involved. It's the same reason you keep a half dozen different swords in your inventory - record synergy is a heck of a thing.

Blame it on power creep? One of the ideas of having so many characters isn't inherent optimization, but catering to your favorites. The idea is "who cares if this guy is weak; as long as my favorite is passable, I'll add it!"

It's just that some are better than others in that regard. And others don't deserve the spot given. Pretty obvious of who I'm talking about, right?
RE: poor relic banner rewards - Well, a five-star thrown weapon other than Rising Sun is good. There's several thrown-weapon users around (Locke, Rinoa, Wakka), and a good 5-star throwing weapon means they can stay in the back row without problems.

[Red Fel]

Note that some of the "current" event people came previously. Considering you didn't mention Tidus, Terra, Locke or Celes, I presume you're taking...I dunno, the last six or seven events, right? Note that DK!Cecil and Paladin!Cecil were some of the first guys to come, and probably the second that returned (Tidus was the first one to return, no?)

I mean, if you take "recent" events, Tidus is actually pretty good.

I won't disagree there. I didn't feel like going back and listing every event character (and, in response to Deadline, I agree that Celes and Terra are the bees' knees); I was generalizing a bit. Locke didn't strike me as worth mentioning (as you say, he's dependent on having a good thrown weapon, and they're not exactly common). And while Tidus is solid, he tends to suffer from that "second option" issue you talk about; he's good, and has good ability selections, but you can easily get people who are better.

Explain how Aerith/Aeris and Garnet are "fantastic" compared to, say, Vanille. I agree with Lenna only because she can use Bows, meaning that with a good bow she can contribute in combat while staying in the back row (the only other character able to pull that, IMO, is Rosa, and she's missing). Probably their MND stats? Or maybe having a cure-all SB?

Oh, I'll grant you, Vanille is awesome. But she's also a healer, and I was explicitly excluding healers from this calculus, because the event healers are so good.

*bullet list*

DK!Cecil may have gotten fixed, but it's not enough. Yes, his attack is excellent, but his equipment selection is limited, and his ability selection is nonexistent. He is strictly inferior to Sephiroth, except that DK!Cecil can at least use swords. And while I'm a big fan of Leon, he's not in the global version yet.

Pally!Cecil... Hm. Statwise, he's solid. Best defense, respectable offense. Good SB, good RMs, and good equipment selection. I'll grant you, he's a solid backup frontliner. I retract my statement in part with respect to him. That said, he's Combat 5, Knight 5, WM 2. Right now, that basically means he's Combat 5, full stop, unless you really need to hit a boss with Dia to satisfy a mastery requirement.

One more thing: how things outside of events are better than those in events? I don't think I need to remind you of Core Characters, who other than the Keeper (and even then!) are strictly worse. Wakka has been already surpassed by other event-based characters, Josef is about the only Monk around, Gordon suffers from his Red Mage focus, Cyan isn't the best Retaliator around (at least compared to Cloud and Mama's Boy)...

I didn't say that everything outside of events is better. Rather, that, generally, we already have better options without resorting to events. I readily acknowledge that core characters are grossly inferior. Cyan is literally a crappier Sephiroth. Kain, as always, disappoints me. And I won't even get into the characters who would be out of their depth in a parking lot puddle.

But then we have the ones which are actually capable, and they're good. Vivi is the poster child for black mages. Cloud is the staple Retaliatemans. Sephiroth exists, and the fans go wild.

That's the point. Not that every non-event character is golden, because they so aren't, but that there are enough quality non-event characters as to make one wonder.

Blame it on power creep? One of the ideas of having so many characters isn't inherent optimization, but catering to your favorites. The idea is "who cares if this guy is weak; as long as my favorite is passable, I'll add it!"

It's a fair cop.

It's just that some are better than others in that regard. And others don't deserve the spot given. Pretty obvious of who I'm talking about, right?

YOU ARE STEALING THE PLANET FROM MOTHER.

[Mr.Sandman]

all this time I have kept Terra to 6 only, not knowing she is so versatile. Not only is she a full BM, she also has high level Support AND can use swords? Her Mag takes a hit yah, but she can actually hit really well when out of spells, and her Mag isn't too bad due to me having a Thunderblade, though would probably be better with her special sword, which I am rather disappointed isn't in the relics for this event.

[T.G. Oskar]

I won't disagree there. I didn't feel like going back and listing every event character (and, in response to Deadline, I agree that Celes and Terra are the bees' knees); I was generalizing a bit. Locke didn't strike me as worth mentioning (as you say, he's dependent on having a good thrown weapon, and they're not exactly common). And while Tidus is solid, he tends to suffer from that "second option" issue you talk about; he's good, and has good ability selections, but you can easily get people who are better.

Locke isn't exactly that bad: as mentioned, he's the top character in terms of Speed. His weapon collection isn't exactly that bad either; it just happens that he does better on the back row because his best weapon IS a back row weapon. Terra is better on the back row, yet her best weapon is a front-row weapon, and she can equip armor that happens to give her a solid defense, so she can go front and back; that she's also one of the best Black Mages just tops it, but when facing the really tough bosses, you really want her on the back row. In terms of what Locke can pull, you want him on the back row so that he can use his skills appropriately. Also, he's the only character with Thief skills; that there are none doesn't mean he won't be really powerful.

Tidus...well, yeah, he suffers a bit from "second option", but he's pretty balanced in Attack and Speed. It's just that the game skews a lot towards Attack, because you're gonna be attacking most of the time, and the good mook-clearing options (Josef's Double Cut Record Materia and the Bard's Bladeblitz Record Materia) reduce your damage, so you want overflow to compensate.

Oh, I'll grant you, Vanille is awesome. But she's also a healer, and I was explicitly excluding healers from this calculus, because the event healers are so good.

That's the thing, though. White Mage isn't that great, but she has a very solid base SB (the first cure-all SB you get), plus enough White Magic to get Curaja and Protectga, which is what you want from a healer. By level 50, you're mostly gunning for good healing with Curaga, and WM has enough Mind and uses Mind-boosting weapons.

The reason I compare is because WM is already a pretty solid character in its niche. The others are better because they have more, but there's really no distinction between the niches. Vanille is solid because of Deprotectga/Deshellga (two damage-dealing debuffs), but not much; she covers her MND and White Magic requirements, but so do the others. Lenna's SBs aren't so great (Mass Regen is...decent, but you really want a Cure All), but it's her use of bows what sets her forward. That is why I asked what makes Aeris (base SB isn't that accurate, other stats aren't as solid) or Garnet so good compared to other characters. IMO, I feel that what you're meaning is that the event healers are good because the healing niche is so necessary. IMO, the best healer out there is Tyro, because he can equip everything, his Healing Grimoire boosts his Mind really high, and he has 5-star in everything...and he's no event character. Try to top that.

DK!Cecil may have gotten fixed, but it's not enough. Yes, his attack is excellent, but his equipment selection is limited, and his ability selection is nonexistent. He is strictly inferior to Sephiroth, except that DK!Cecil can at least use swords. And while I'm a big fan of Leon, he's not in the global version yet.

Limited? Doesn't Mama's Boy can only use daggers and katanas (which are scarce compared to swords)? IIRC, he can't equip heavy armor, which DK!Cecil does. The problem Sephy has is that he's the top on Attack and has Samurai on his list; that means he'll deal lots of damage with Retaliate when focusing all attacks on him.

Pally!Cecil... Hm. Statwise, he's solid. Best defense, respectable offense. Good SB, good RMs, and good equipment selection. I'll grant you, he's a solid backup frontliner. I retract my statement in part with respect to him. That said, he's Combat 5, Knight 5, WM 2. Right now, that basically means he's Combat 5, full stop, unless you really need to hit a boss with Dia to satisfy a mastery requirement.

Considering that Combat 5 means he has access to Double Cut and Bladeblitz, I'm not protesting.

I didn't say that everything outside of events is better. Rather, that, generally, we already have better options without resorting to events. I readily acknowledge that core characters are grossly inferior. Cyan is literally a crappier Sephiroth. Kain, as always, disappoints me. And I won't even get into the characters who would be out of their depth in a parking lot puddle.

But then we have the ones which are actually capable, and they're good. Vivi is the poster child for black mages. Cloud is the staple Retaliatemans. Sephiroth exists, and the fans go wild.

That's the point. Not that every non-event character is golden, because they so aren't, but that there are enough quality non-event characters as to make one wonder.

Vivi is an event character, and so does Mama's Boy. About the only non-event character that pulls his weight, and only because of his skill set and popularity is Cloud. Sephy is now "easily" accessible because of Bonus Quests, but he's an event character first and foremost.

I must admit, though, that Cyan is disappointing. Why can't he equip heavy armor, when on the game he actually appears he can? I can understand the Katana fixation, but not the lack of heavy armor (at least he can equip shields, but that can only take you so far). He should have a better defense, IMO...maybe he's also due for a boost like DK!Cecil?

YOU ARE STEALING THE PLANET FROM MOTHER.

See? Typical Mama's Boy behavior. Someone needs to teach him manners...I dunno, like a Mama Bear with the ability to fry 50 Magitek Knights in under a minute and takes care of an entire orphanage

[Red Fel]

See? Typical Mama's Boy behavior. Someone needs to teach him manners...I dunno, like a Mama Bear with the ability to fry 50 Magitek Knights in under a minute and takes care of an entire orphanage

I would have said that the genetically modified supersoldier who discovers the truth of his origins, goes insane, and tries to annihilate the planet, should get some therapy from the genetically modified supersoldier who discovers the truth of her origins, rebels against the nation that created her, consoles the sickly engineer who created her, and in her spare time understudies in opera. And by therapy, I mean savage beatings.

But that's just an idea.

Event time - everyone having fun? It's pretty straightforward stuff so far. Also, I did an 11-pull, and got the Partisan - so, yay, I guess? I mean, it's a dang fine spear, statwise it's even better than the Wind Spear, and the AoE SB is nice. (Particularly when you realize that, by default, human-type enemies and bosses have a massive poison vulnerability.) Also, I got a 4-star Masamune Blade (not to be confused with the 5-star Masamune), so yay, my first Katana! ... which won't see much use in this event, because it's VII, and because neither Bishiroth nor Cyan Connery is in my party.

My current setup is BigSword, the Bobsey Twins, Garnet, and A Real Black Mage. I'm still autoing freely through anything that isn't a boss. It's a good time for Red Fel.

[Mr.Sandman]

Ok Red, BigSword is Cloud, RBM is Vivi I'm guessing, but who are the Bobsey Twins?

[Calemyr]

Ok Red, BigSword is Cloud, RBM is Vivi I'm guessing, but who are the Bobsey Twins?

The Figaro Brothers, at a guess.

[Jurai]

So, I feel sorta bad. I stoned to recover in the middle of Figaro Castle Exterior, but got that Master ranking I was shooting for last night. Auto Crossbow is... All right at low levels.

[Red Fel]

The Figaro Brothers, at a guess.

That's the Super Figaro Bros. Or, if you want to be technical, Super Figaro Bros. 2, seeing as Lenna and Faris already pulled that stunt the game before. (Also, pirate queen with her own ship and a pet sea dragon > runaway monk.)

[Jurai]

Super Figaro Bros. sounds like an awesome game.

[DiscipleofBob]

Super Figaro Bros. 2 is when you bring Edgar and Sabin along to Cyan's nightmare.

(Along with I guess Celes and/or Mog.)

[Jurai]

What about Super Figaro Bros. the Lost Levels?

[Red Fel]

What about Super Figaro Bros. the Lost Levels?

That would be the portable edition. (Seriously, they did that with every FF portable release.)

[Jurai]

Okay. Super Figaro Bros. 3 and Super Figaro World might be a little more complicated, though.

[DiscipleofBob]

Okay. Super Figaro Bros. 3 and Super Figaro World might be a little more complicated, though.

Super Figaro Bros. 3 is the Opera House.

Super Figaro World is clearly the World of Ruin. You even start out on an island.

[Jurai]

Hmm... Okay.

New Question, is there anyway to see the medal objectives for a given Boss fight in game before you end the boss fight?

[Red Fel]

Hmm... Okay.

New Question, is there anyway to see the medal objectives for a given Boss fight in game before you end the boss fight?

During the boss fight? Not to my knowledge. Between levels in the zone? Yes. You know your "Camp" button, that lets you heal up or leave the dungeon? Also in that menu, there's a "Dungeon Info" button that tells you rewards and mastery goals, just like you'd see before entering the zone.

[Calemyr]

Hmm... Okay.

New Question, is there anyway to see the medal objectives for a given Boss fight in game before you end the boss fight?

You can only see them before you start the zone or after the boss is dead.

[Jurai]

I need to go back through IV and Gold Chocobo a few records.

[Knaight]

So, I feel sorta bad. I stoned to recover in the middle of Figaro Castle Exterior, but got that Master ranking I was shooting for last night. Auto Crossbow is... All right at low levels.

I've found it pretty spectacular at low levels, but I'm in the process of getting Sabin and as such have been firing it off with a synergy bonus just about every time. Plus, Edgar has pretty decent stats, weapon access, and ability access from the looks of things.

[T.G. Oskar]

I would have said that the genetically modified supersoldier who discovers the truth of his origins, goes insane, and tries to annihilate the planet, should get some therapy from the genetically modified supersoldier who discovers the truth of her origins, rebels against the nation that created her, consoles the sickly engineer who created her, and in her spare time understudies in opera. And by therapy, I mean savage beatings.

But that's just an idea.

Are you talking about Mama's Boy or the Joker Wannabe? Yes is a perfectly acceptable answer.

Also, I got a 4-star Masamune Blade (not to be confused with the 5-star Masamune), so yay, my first Katana! ... which won't see much use in this event, because it's VII, and because neither Bishiroth nor Cyan Connery is in my party.

Curiously, amongst the gacha pulls, I got...three. I think I've mentioned I got a 6-Star cheap copy of Masamune Blade? Can't compare to FFVIII's Blitz Sword even when near-max, though - kinda surprised that, right now, my strongest hitter (due to level cap and the weapon) is Terra. No kidding. I gave her the weapon since it also happens to boost your Magic stat (she had the Mesmerize Blade before) and, as a front-liner, she needs a weapon that hits for solid. Completely unexpected.

[Jurai]

Red Fel is referring to either Kefka and Celes or Terra.

[Red Fel]

Are you talking about Mama's Boy or the Joker Wannabe? Yes is a perfectly acceptable answer.

Red Fel is referring to either Kefka and Celes or Terra.

Red Fel is referring to introducing Bishiroth to Celes. Therapy would ensue, either in the form of conversation or a one-sided brawl. (One of the two of them survived an apocalypse and successfully fought a god. I wouldn't bet on the pretty boy.)

Red Fel would never introduce Kefka to anybody. Except a rather large arsenal of sharp objects. It would be a rather abrupt, direct introduction; brief, but to the point.

Curiously, amongst the gacha pulls, I got...three. I think I've mentioned I got a 6-Star cheap copy of Masamune Blade? Can't compare to FFVIII's Blitz Sword even when near-max, though - kinda surprised that, right now, my strongest hitter (due to level cap and the weapon) is Terra. No kidding. I gave her the weapon since it also happens to boost your Magic stat (she had the Mesmerize Blade before) and, as a front-liner, she needs a weapon that hits for solid. Completely unexpected.

Yet another reason that Terra is awesome. Powerful spells? Check. Powerful armor? Check. Powerful weapons? Check. Character balance? ... We'll get back to you.

[Infernally Clay]

Red Fel is referring to introducing Bishiroth to Celes. Therapy would ensue, either in the form of conversation or a one-sided brawl. (One of the two of them survived an apocalypse and successfully fought a god. I wouldn't bet on the pretty boy.)

Sephiroth is actually a bit out of Celes' league. He's comparable to Kefka in power, referring to both at their strongest, which means you'd need the entire FFVI party to beat him. Celes alone wouldn't last very long.

[Red Fel]

Sephiroth is actually a bit out of Celes' league. He's comparable to Kefka in power, referring to both at their strongest, which means you'd need the entire FFVI party to beat him. Celes alone wouldn't last very long.

Sephiroth has the mental stability of a spinning top. Not to mention that his entirely unhealthy preoccupation with Cloud will pretty much guarantee that he won't fully unload on anybody other than Captain Not Compensating For Anything With That Sword.

Also, Celes is the protagonist of Act II of her game, so I have confidence in her ability to inflict pain on why are we even having this discussion?