Zen Archer/Marksman multiclassing for double Wis to attack, good idea?

[EisenKreutzer]

I was reading over the Zen Archer and Ultimate Psionics Marksman to see which was the better bowman, and discovered that it is possible to gain double your Wisdom modifyer to ranged attack rolls with this class combination. The Marksmans Wind Reader ability allows you to spend a swift action (while maintaining Psionic Focus) to gain a competence bonus equal to your Wisdom modifyer on ranged attack rolls, while the Zen Archer gains his Wisdom modifyer to ranged attack rolls at lvl 3.
Since Wind Reader grants a competence bonus, it stacks with Zen Archery.
Aside from this, do you think these two classes complement each other further, or is this the only advantage to this class combination?

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'm not too familiar with PF but isn't there a rule that you can't get the same stat to something more than once?

[EisenKreutzer]

I'm not too familiar with PF but isn't there a rule that you can't get the same stat to something more than once?

There is, but the Marksmans Wind Reader ability gives a competence bonus equal to Wis modifyer, and I assume the competence bonus stacks with the ability mod from Zen Archer.

[Extra Anchovies]

There is, but the Marksmans Wind Reader ability gives a competence bonus equal to Wis modifyer, and I assume the competence bonus stacks with the ability mod from Zen Archer.

Yeah, they have to be bonuses of different types, and apparently the bonus type for monk's AC bonus is "Wisdom bonus" or some such. It's annoying but makes sense.

[Molosse]

There is, but the Marksmans Wind Reader ability gives a competence bonus equal to Wis modifyer, and I assume the competence bonus stacks with the ability mod from Zen Archer.

I would argue that this fly's in the face of the FAQ's intent just a tad, but when you're rocking third party it's hard to argue.

As it is yes, a Zen Archer is strong because it's near enough a SAD Class, making that SAD even better is only a good thing.

[charcoalninja]

Add a level of sacred fist warpriest and you've got the ability to ignore penalties due to range and double WIS bonus to AC as well.
And before it's called out that they don't stack too for reasons...
Monk's AC bonus is an ex ability that gives a scaling dodge bonus.
Warpriest's AC bonus is a (su) ability that gives a scaling deflection bonus so the abilities are certainly different.

[meemaas]

I would argue that this fly's in the face of the FAQ's intent just a tad, but when you're rocking third party it's hard to argue.

As it is yes, a Zen Archer is strong because it's near enough a SAD Class, making that SAD even better is only a good thing.

If I recall, the FAQ specifically allows bonus equal to stat to stack with stat bonus as long as it has a type.

[Fruchtkracher]

While maintaining psionic focus, she can spend a swift action to gain a competence bonus equal to her Wisdom modifier on ranged attacks until the end of the round. She can do this a number of times per day equal to 3 + her class level.

Unless I'm missing something you can only use Wind Reader a limited amount of time (very limited if you only dip Marksman). For 4 rounds per day I woudn't multiclass

[Feint's End]

The strongest zen archer build actually contains only three levels of zen archer but marksman is still very solid.

Still if you are interested here is the build:
1-3 zen archer ... here you are just the regular archer
4-6 soulknife (the regular one) ... pick up focused offense -> wisdom to attack and damage in melee (also get fighters blade to get full progression on your mindblade)
7-16 soul archer ... you can now shape your mindblade into arrows and can use wisdom to hit. Also the level 10 ability is extremely powerful
17 psychic warrior ... needed for entry into
18-20 dark tempest ... This let's you get 2nd level psywar powers which let's you pick up hustle

You end up with a very strong sad archer (wisdom to hit and damage) who can melee with the best of them (wisdom to hit and damage). You also can reliably hit touch ac by expending focus to use fell shot on every shot in your full attack. Use hustle and psionic meditation to regain focus and use this trick every round.

This build is basically a gunslinger without all the limiting factors and who also happens to be a great melee with utility added on top.

Edit: @Fruchtkracher: it's wisdom mod rounds per use so basically always for most adventuring days.

[Fruchtkracher]

Edit: @Fruchtkracher: it's wisdom mod rounds per use so basically always for most adventuring days.

No, it's not.

While maintaining psionic focus, she can spend a swift action to gain a competence bonus equal to her Wisdom modifier on ranged attacks until the end of the round.

Unless I really am missing anything.

[Feint's End]

No, it's not.

Unless I really am missing anything.

You are correct. I don't know how I missread this that often.

One more reason to go soul archer.

[Psyren]

I would argue that this fly's in the face of the FAQ's intent just a tad, but when you're rocking third party it's hard to argue.

As it is yes, a Zen Archer is strong because it's near enough a SAD Class, making that SAD even better is only a good thing.

It's not a big deal - remember that any archer can get a competence bonus to hit, so all this really means is that the Marksman has a slightly bigger one because it is tied to a key stat rather than being static or coming from wealth. In practice it amounts to probably +2 to +4 higher than a normal optimized archer's competence bonus.

[Feint's End]

It's not a big deal - remember that any archer can get a competence bonus to hit, so all this really means is that the Marksman has a slightly bigger one because it is tied to a key stat rather than being static or coming from wealth. In practice it amounts to probably +2 to +4 higher than a normal optimized archer's competence bonus.

Where do you get the competence bonus from? A halfway optimised zen archer gets to 34 wisdom which means +12 to hit. I'm not aware of any item that grants a bonus higher than +5 pretty epic.
If you are talking purely from a marksman perspective (who'll increase wisdom likely to his second highest stat) it makes more sense though.

[Psyren]

Where do you get the competence bonus from? A halfway optimised zen archer gets to 34 wisdom which means +12 to hit. I'm not aware of any item that grants a bonus higher than +5 pretty epic.
If you are talking purely from a marksman perspective (who'll increase wisdom likely to his second highest stat) it makes more sense though.

Yes I was comparing to a standard Marksman rather than a Sir Wisdom the SAD kind of build. The latter is indeed much more powerful, but hey, third-party.