Gazetteer of the Stick

[ti'esar]

Thought of two more additions for the gazetteer:

• The Azure City guidebook entry in the W&XPs extras indicates that one of the neighboring regions to Azure City is called the Ghostlands. I don't have my copy on me, so I can't provide any further details, though. I suspect it's probably the second Southern nation seen in 501's second page, since that appears to have some kind of ghost in a position of authority, but that's just speculation.
• Also on the subject of 501, the third nation on the second page - the one that kind of looks like a fantasy Tibet - appears in a one-off comic from SSDT which identifies it as the Realm of the Dragon. It's apparently ruled by a succession of dragon emperors (the current is the young and bad-tempered White Emperor, his predecessor was the Red Emperor) advised by humans.

[dtilque]

Thought of two more additions for the gazetteer:

• The Azure City guidebook entry in the W&XPs extras indicates that one of the neighboring regions to Azure City is called the Ghostlands. I don't have my copy on me, so I can't provide any further details, though. I suspect it's probably the second Southern nation seen in 501's second page, since that appears to have some kind of ghost in a position of authority, but that's just speculation.
• Also on the subject of 501, the third nation on the second page - the one that kind of looks like a fantasy Tibet - appears in a one-off comic from SSDT which identifies it as the Realm of the Dragon. It's apparently ruled by a succession of dragon emperors (the current is the young and bad-tempered White Emperor, his predecessor was the Red Emperor) advised by humans.

Excellent additions. I have no doubt both of these are correct, even though we have no hard evidence. What we have is good enough for me.

I had Ghostlands in the list of places we didn't have info on. All I had was a name and an arrow pointing off the edge of a map. And the name didn't make much sense. I mean, Dwarves live in Dwaven Lands and elves in Elven Lands, but ghosts don't actually live. For all I knew, Ghostlands may have been an amusement park or something.

The ghost may only be an advisor, but I think more likely is the sovereign. No doubt the Heir inherits the throne when he/she dies, rather than when his/her predecessor dies.

Now I'm wondering about the other two lands in 501. I hope we eventually find out more about them.

[dtilque]

Added a number of places from SoD. One that I didn't add, because I wasn't sure about it, was The Swamp (p 27). It doesn't follow the usual forms of such names (e.g. Wooden Forest, Zenith Peak, Wet Sea, etc.). Unless possibly it's the only swamp on the entire planet, in which case it wouldn't need a modifier to tell us which swamp it was. I think that's unlikely.

[ti'esar]

Minor quibble: why is the Realm of the Dragon listed as "Dragon, Realm of the" instead of "Realm of the Dragon, the"? It made it a bit hard to see where it'd been added when I checked after my last post.

[dtilque]

Minor quibble: why is the Realm of the Dragon listed as "Dragon, Realm of the" instead of "Realm of the Dragon, the"? It made it a bit hard to see where it'd been added when I checked after my last post.

For the same reason the Empire of Blood is listed as "Blood, Empire of". I put it under what seemed to be the most distinguishing term. There could be another "Realm of the X" out there where X is Tiger, Elephant, Chimera, or something else.

[dtilque]

One other change is that I found a reference in-comic to the Northern Continent. But it's in strip 724. There's probably an earlier one somewhere. Similarly, the earliest reference I have for Elven Lands is the map on 698. I expect there may be an earlier one for that. And I don't have any for Dwarven Lands. Well, there's the sign in OoPCs, but I want something I can put a link to.

So keep on the look out for references to

• Northern Lands/Continent
• Dwarven Lands
• Elven Lands

Another thing that occured to me was about the name Terrorburg. We know it's a former name for Bleedingham when it was the capital of Tyrinaria. But doesn't it seem like a more natural name for the capital of the Duchy of Terror? This could be an indication that before Tyrinaria, it was the Duchy of Terror and they didn't rename the capital when they renamed the country.

[dtilque]

Added Lair Island from SoD

[dtilque]

More on Lair Island. Right Eye says that it's "about a three hour ride west" of Greysky City. After thinking about it, I realized I could calculate that distance. Light horses go at 60 ft/round. A little arithmetic says that they'll travel about 20 miles in three hours. But then I noticed Right Eye rides a dog. They only go 40 ft/round, or about 13.5 miles in 3 hours.

So what distance should I put? Twenty miles, 13.5 miles, or just leave it as a 3 hour ride? Or perhaps something else? Do animal travel speeds change depending on their load?

[hamishspence]

More on Lair Island. Right Eye says that it's "about a three hour ride west" of Greysky City. After thinking about it, I realized I could calculate that distance. Light horses go at 60 ft/round. A little arithmetic says that they'll travel about 20 miles in three hours. But then I noticed Right Eye rides a dog. They only go 40 ft/round, or about 13.5 miles in 3 hours.

So what distance should I put? Twenty miles, 13.5 miles, or just leave it as a 3 hour ride? Or perhaps something else? Do animal travel speeds change depending on their load?

They do - riding dogs have a speed of 4 miles per hour, heavily loaded ones a speed of 3 miles per hour:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#overlandMovement

[dtilque]

Thanks hamish. After noting in the d20srd that goblins often ride worgs and looking at the picture again, it's probably one of those. I don't see overland travel speeds for worgs, but I'm going to guess 4 mph carrying a goblin. Does that sound reasonable?

[hamishspence]

Depends on how much kit a worg's carrying. Its got a 50 ft move speed - same as a heavy horse. You could probably use that as a guideline - so 5 mph overland speed for a worg with light load (as a Str 17 quadruped it might be able to carry a goblin with saddle and minimal kit)- 3.5 mph with medium or heavy load.

[dtilque]

On the Lair Island thing, I decided not to worry about it and just say "a 3 hour ride".

Updated with a couple place names from OoPCs: town of Nextdoor and Great Elven Forest. Also noticed that I'd totally missed the Western Continent, so added that. Anyone know the first reference to that in the strip? There's one in 643, when Darth V teleports the Azurite fleet, but is there an earlier one?

Other changes: modified the entries for Northern and Southern Lands.

[dtilque]

Added Firmament

[Mad Humanist]

As of 1044 we have a whole load of place names.

Tunnelsburg
Nottinstory
Thane City
Gelid Glacier
Bartervault
Passage Pass
Fissure Gap
Summit Mountains

[Jaxzan Proditor]

There also appears to be another mountain range called the "Molehill Mtns".

[dtilque]

Thanks for the promptings. I'll get the updates in tonight.

But I do wonder about one thing. Zenith Peak (where the Godsmoot was held) is in the Pinnacle Mountains. But on this map it seems to be in the Summit Mountains and the Pinnacle Mountains are not there, or not labeled anyway. Any ideas on this? Could the Summit Mountains be a sub-range of the Pinnacles? Or is it just a thinko by the author?

[Jasdoif]

Thanks for the promptings. I'll get the updates in tonight.

But I do wonder about one thing. Zenith Peak (where the Godsmoot was held) is in the Pinnacle Mountains. But on this map it seems to be in the Summit Mountains and the Pinnacle Mountains are not there, or not labeled anyway. Any ideas on this?

Note that Zenith Peak and the Summit Mountains are on opposite sides of what's presumably Passage Pass. The pass may be a natural boundary between the Summit Mountains and the Pinnacle Mountains.

[dancrilis]

And I don't have any for Dwarven Lands. Well, there's the sign in OoPCs, but I want something I can put a link to.

So keep on the look out for references to

• Dwarven Lands

Here, also there is a north poll.

[dtilque]

Note that Zenith Peak and the Summit Mountains are on opposite sides of what's presumably Passage Pass. The pass may be a natural boundary between the Summit Mountains and the Pinnacle Mountains.

That's possible. But the Pinnacles are almost 2000 miles long, so it's most likely they go all the way through this map.

[Jasdoif]

That's possible. But the Pinnacles are almost 2000 miles long, so it's most likely they go all the way through this map.

It certainly could be...or it could also be that the Pinnacles cover the area between the Summit Mountains and the Molehill Mountains. Without knowing the map's projection and/or scale, there's not really a good basis of estimating lengths from it.

[dancrilis]

Taking a screengrab and blowing it up to get a very rough scale it would seem that if the mountain range is 2000 miles across from Haley's fingers to the 'S' in summit mountains that would place the dot of Firmament about 20+ miles in diameter, and the points of the star on Thane Vault as about 30+ miles from spoke to spoke.

At that scale I am not sure how useful the map would be for fine navigation - it is possible that this one is just a general map without any true scale associated to it (in much the same way you might not bother to include a scale on a global map as countries and areas near the polls may be messed up due to flattening).

[dtilque]

It certainly could be...or it could also be that the Pinnacles cover the area between the Summit Mountains and the Molehill Mountains. Without knowing the map's projection and/or scale, there's not really a good basis of estimating lengths from it.

Yes, but I don't get the feeling that that is 2000 miles. Consider that the Appalachians are about 2000 miles long from Alabama to Newfoundland. As dancrilis says, any map covering that area would be pretty worthless for fine navigation. Instead I think it's more likely that the Pinnacles are a long mountain range with various sub-ranges, just like the Appalachians have the Allegheny Mountains, the Andirondocks, the Blue Ridge Mountains, etc.

[dtilque]

OK, made the updates based on 1044. I didn't add the North Pole, though.

A note to dancrilis: dots on maps just indcate location, not the size of the feature. The same for the starred circle indicating the capital. Their sizes don't mean anything.

[Jasdoif]

As dancrilis says, any map covering that area would be pretty worthless for fine navigation.

I figure the absence of axial lines or coordinates, and the dearth of landmarks, makes it pretty worthless for navigation period....I presumed it was a political map, especially with the focus on the Dwarven Lands and settlements thereof.

Instead I think it's more likely that the Pinnacles are a long mountain range with various sub-ranges, just like the Appalachians have the Allegheny Mountains, the Andirondocks, the Blue Ridge Mountains, etc.

It certainly could be...but then I'd have to wonder why the subrange in the middle of the map would be unlabelled, while the subranges on the sides were labelled.

[dtilque]

There's no requirement that all subsections of the range have an individual name.

But consider that if the section between Passage Pass and the rightmost pass is 2000 miles, then the entire map covers about 3000 miles east-to-west or about the width of the United States. At that scale, it's unlikely that individual passes would be so prominently shown.

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I think it likely that Burlew forgot what he named the mountains when he drew the map. But for now, I'm assuming the Summit and Molehill Mtns are subranges.

[dancrilis]

To comment in reversed order.

A note to dancrilis: dots on maps just indcate location, not the size of the feature. The same for the starred circle indicating the capital. Their sizes don't mean anything.

I get that but just was pointing out that a dot ~20 miles in diameter might not indicate the location of an underground city all that well for fine navigation.

OK, made the updates based on 1044. I didn't add the North Pole, though.

Is this just because 'the world has poles' is essentially meaningless information until we know more.

My thinking is that in 1031 Lien mentions that they are making for the pole, and in 941 Haley mentions that it is the distination - so it does seem to be a target for whatever reason.

[SirKazum]

Since this thread is popping up again, a correction - in the places list, you consistently spell it "Durokan" (in the Crooked Mountain, Dungeon of Dorukan and Redmountain Hills entries), but the correct spelling is Dorukan.

[Jasdoif]

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I think it likely that Burlew forgot what he named the mountains when he drew the map. But for now, I'm assuming the Summit and Molehill Mtns are subranges.

So noted.

I couldn't glean anything else out of the map. I tried assuming North from anywhere was pointing to the North Pole, and where Tinkertown could be since it's about 830 miles SSW from Zenith Peak and not on the map....Worked out to giving the map scale a rough upper limit of 11.86 miles per pixel, if Tinkertown was just past the edge. But at the upper limit that would put the section of the mountain range on the map at nearly 3,800 miles across, so clearly the scale is well below that upper limit if the Pinnacles are only 2,000 in total; so there's no usable bounding information there.

[dtilque]

Is this just because 'the world has poles' is essentially meaningless information until we know more.

More or less. I wouldn't add the equator either, even if it were marked. However, I did add Kraagor's Tomb and Monster Hollow.

Since this thread is popping up again, a correction - in the places list, you consistently spell it "Durokan" (in the Crooked Mountain, Dungeon of Dorukan and Redmountain Hills entries), but the correct spelling is Dorukan.

Thank you. Done.

[dtilque]

added a few places mentioned in HPGHS: Ancient Empire, Gorge Ravine, Peripheral Frontier.

Was the Ancient Empire ever named in the main strip?