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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zephyros's Avatar

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    Default Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    So... We are starting a campaign in 2-3 days, with a very nice fellow as DM (nice means, badass role playin and SRD machine the same time) Thing is that.. It's a noob party everyone... His girlfriend and mine wanna try D&D He is not gonna go soft on any of them or me, but I don't want to abuse the spotlight. Still I should be able to pull an Ace from my sleeve when the time comes. The pretty dudettes have decided on playin a Tiefling Rogue and an Elven Wiz-chick ( \m/ )...

    Am yet undecided on a Bard (probably Fey'ri) or an Hellbred Palladin... Give me two good builds plix (all completes, phbII and the 2 fiendish compendiums at our disposal) Campaign starts at lvl9.

    Thanks in advance

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    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
    Douglas's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    So you want to be powerful without making the new players seem useless? Build your character to buff them. Go with the Bard and do everything you can to boost your bardic music, particularly Inspire Courage. Sure, you might be responsible for 3/4 of the party's combat power, but most if it is indirect. What's usually going to grab the spotlight if you do it right is the direct source of damage, which will be their characters.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    kamikasei's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    Tiefling Rogue and Elven Wizard don't sound like bad combinations. I agree with douglas, Bard is a good idea, especially with a wand of cure whatever to provide healing along with buffs. The real issue is that the party's seriously lacking in melee combat, but if your DM can work with that...

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zephyros's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    That's why I m thinking about going paladin.. Healing and tankbot...

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    The problem with a paladin, is if you build it well, it will need to do huge amounts of melee damage to be effective. People look at that, it is what they remember. I would stick with buffbard and encourage the Rogue to multiclass fighter, or pick up an NPC fighter/Warrior.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    i think you are missing what he's going for. He wants to kick serious ass, aka impress his girlfriend, while not completely dominating in a way that ruins the game for them. amiright Zephyros?

    Really, I'd suggest u go cleric. At lvl 9, the healing you do should pretty much make them love your character and as long as you tone down the cheese, you shouldn't imping on their character's fields, since neither of them is really a melee tanker.
    Last edited by Snooder; 2007-04-21 at 12:01 PM.

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    Tellah's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    Snooder is right; Cleric is pretty much the perfect choice for this party. Go into melee to help your rogue get flanking, but don't roll up a CoDzilla if you don't want to hog the glory.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    You guys need a cleric. Take some domains which give you a couple of walls so you can do some battlefield control too when needed. Force domain is good, it gives you wall of force and also resilient sphere which you can use to keep a party member save when he gets in too deep.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    If you play the bard, not only go for buff specialist (and fey'ri is my fav. race to play) but do your best at bing the face of the party (and maybe let the wiz chick be the "body").
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    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    Yeah, Cleric for sure, but why on earth is your Dungeon Master introducing two new Players to Dungeons & Dragons via Level 9? Seems like unnecessary complication?
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    Cleric is solid, go heavy armor, maybe dwarf if you want to keep moving at a reasonable rate in it and can soak the -2 to cha, also gives you a chance to be the voice of reason in a party, which when starting out people in D&D, is ALWAYS good to have.

    As for level 9, I don't see the issue with that. My first tabletop character ever was a level 9 Barbarian/Rogue, just so long as everyone is completely sure what each of their abilities do, how many times a day they can use it, etc, you're set.

    Once you start explaining AoOs, THAT's when it gets complicated.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    I'll back Cleric on this. The group needs someone to hold the enemies' attention on the front lines, and a Cleric can also do quite well as a buff machine and support character.

    Plus, if they get in over your heads, you'll always (especially if you've been tanking) have the option of going zilla, when all other options fail.

    I'll also agree that starting off at level 9 is a bad idea for completely new players, especially with a Wizard.
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  13. - Top - End - #13

    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    Cleric. You can have essentially the exact same flavor as a paladin, but be a better healer and a better tank.

    P.S. please don't use Hellbred to pull the whole "zomg I am angsty and demonic but I want to redeem myself and do good while having emo hair hanging over one eye" thing.
    Last edited by Bears With Lasers; 2007-04-22 at 12:08 AM.

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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    Right, you need emo hair hanging over both eyes to be really cool these days.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    warmachine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    Cleric. You'll have your own bag of tricks to compensate for newbies who don't know effective techniques, cure spells when tactical mistakes are made, enough HP and armour for melee fighting and good Diplomacy if the others have trouble with NPC negotiations. Also, three players is short handed and the roles of melee and healer are missing. Paladin doesn't fit healer as, at level nine, paralysis, ability loss and curses are common and paladins lack the correct spells.

    I only have the core books, so I'm probably missing some good feats but I'd do the following.
    • Human Cleric of Hieroneous taking Good (protection spells and Holy Smite) and War (longsword proficiency, Weapon Focus and whacking spells) domains.
    • Best Wisdom score, then Strength, then Charisma.
    • Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Combat Casting (you often need to cast in a melee fight and you can't afford to fizzle one action), Leadership (the party is short handed and Paladins or Fighters cohorts have high HP), Scribe Scroll or Brew Potion.
    • Skills: Concentration (spellcasting in melee), Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge Religion, Knowledge Planes. Spellcraft and Knowledge Arcana are good but can be left to the Wizard in a pinch.
    • Equipment: silver Holy Symbol, best longsword, full plate armour and light shield (not heavy), spare longsword, dagger, light crossbow, Periapt of Wisdom, Healing kit, Everburning Torch, crowbar, Holy Water, Sunrods, Smoke Sticks, Tanglefoot Bag (cheap tactical tricks), spare scrolls and potions, diamond dust.
    Matthew Greet
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zephyros's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    ...The whole hellbred thing is about rp... About my character warning his sister (the tiefling dudette) of what awaits her deep in Baator- thats why he chose to live again.. And in return she is still trying to tempt him in every way possible :o)

    What about building though (if I go hellbred) Bears?

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Lolzords's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    I'll always have a soft spot for Tieflings thanks to HaerDalis. (sp?) Hehe, when you kick him out of the party he demands a sniveling apology to get back in.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Got_This_Name View Post
    I'll back Cleric on this. The group needs someone to hold the enemies' attention on the front lines, and a Cleric can also do quite well as a buff machine and support character.

    Plus, if they get in over your heads, you'll always (especially if you've been tanking) have the option of going zilla, when all other options fail.

    I'll also agree that starting off at level 9 is a bad idea for completely new players, especially with a Wizard.
    I think starting off as a wizard is a bad idea at any level. If you're new to D&D and/or RPGs in general, then choosing and preparing spells will be difficult. Barbarians and Sorcerors are probably the easiest characters to play, for obvious reasons.

  19. - Top - End - #19
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    warmachine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    AD&D is really designed around the roles of Fighter, Rogue, Wizard and Cleric. Bard makes a good fifth role. A party without someone to adequently cover these roles will suffer critical weaknesses. If the game is more roleplaying than combat, it doesn't matter, but as your GM "is not gonna go soft on any of them or me", are you sure you can ignore critical weaknesses?
    Matthew Greet
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  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Seffbasilisk's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    Skill Focus: Concentration is better then combat casting as well. Instead of a +4 sometimes, it's a +3 always. Or you can just take both for a +7. As a cleric, you have to cast in melee a lot more then others. For example, the party tank drops in front of the troll. You have to get a healing spell to him, but can't provoke an AoO, and you have to use your move action to put away a weapon to clear your hand for casting.

    5ft step, and cast defensivly. A +7 + wis mod + 12 (max ranks for level 9) will get you a 3rd level spell without even rolling.
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  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    warmachine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    Whether to use Combat Casting or Skill Focus depends on the ratio of spell casting in melee to other rough conditions. You'll have to anticipate what campaigns the DM is running.

    As for sheathing your weapon, that's what light shields are for. When about to cast, transfer the weapon to the shield hand, which can hold but not wield it then grab it again when finished casting. I've yet to hear of a GM that disallows this. This allows moving towards someone in melee and curing in the same turn without losing a move action and suffering an AoO to pick up your weapon. Can't do this with heavy shields, of course.
    Matthew Greet
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  22. - Top - End - #22
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Person_Man's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    I also vote Cleric. Focus on buffing others instead of yourself, and no one will resent you. You could also pull it off as a Druid, though people tend to resent the Druid's animal companion at low levels, as it tends to be more powerful then poorly done builds in combat.

  23. - Top - End - #23
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    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    Quote Originally Posted by warmachine View Post
    As for sheathing your weapon, that's what light shields are for. When about to cast, transfer the weapon to the shield hand, which can hold but not wield it then grab it again when finished casting. I've yet to hear of a GM that disallows this. This allows moving towards someone in melee and curing in the same turn without losing a move action and suffering an AoO to pick up your weapon. Can't do this with heavy shields, of course.
    You could also use a Heavy Shield. If your Cleric really needs a free hand for Spell Casting in Melee, just have him drop the Weapon, he is still armed when holding the Heavy Shield.
    Last edited by Matthew; 2007-04-22 at 05:53 PM.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    The free hand issue is why spiked gauntlets are the best weapons ever.
    Last projects, from years back: Lesser Disciplines (Tome of Battle). Also, Never Behind the Curve (multiclassing).

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  25. - Top - End - #25
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    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    Nah, what you want is Improved Unarmed Strike and Gauntlets. Spiked Gauntlets cannot be used with Power Attack, but Gauntlets and Unarmed Strikes can. Go figure.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  26. - Top - End - #26
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    warmachine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hey PC-building scientists, over here..

    I would defintely suggest the Leadership feat. Although cohorts are NPCs and require DM approval, DMs usually let a player build and roleplay the cohort. An experienced roleplayer, such as yourself, can easily switch between two personalities, especially as the cohort will share many values and motivations in common with your PC. This should create more player interaction as three players is a bit short.

    I've always regarded Leadership as a player feat, not a character feat.
    Matthew Greet
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