Magic the Gathering XXI: Tap Target Keg

[Octopusapult]

The main thing I want to know is how can I set up some prizes. Obviously I can do it based on wins but some people in our group don't like that so much, they just have less fun when playing exclusively to win. So what kind of things can I give prizes for that are more likely to promote the general sillyness that is gauranteed to ensue here? Best theme deck? Most colors played? Most absurd boardstate? Winning a game using a card from Fallen Empires or Homelands?

Create a list of challenges and award players based on completing those challenges maybe?

[Somensjev]

okay, i've got a rules question to ask:

Spoiler: rules question

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it's about daretti, scrap savant's emblem which states "Whenever an artifact is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, return that card to the battlefield at the beginning of the next end step."

how exactly would this work with something like mycosynth lattice or liquimetal coating? my first instinct is to say that they don't interact at all, but i've been wrong before


i suppose my question boils down to. "if a permanent is an artifact on the battlefield, and is sent to the grave. would this emblem bring it back if it's no longer an artifact in the grave?"

i ask because daretti may only be useful in my superfriends deck if he works with these things

[squab]

Hmm. Lessee. "Whenever an artifact is put into your graveyard from the battlefield" So. Is it going to your graveyard? Yes. From the battlefield? Yes. Okay, is it an artifact? Yup. Okay. So far it checks out. "return that card to the battlefield " So. That thing. That went to the graveyard. It's a card? Yes? It returns.

Way I read it, when an artifact is about to leave your battlefield to go to the graveyard (regardless of why it's an artifact) Daretti's ability targets it. It grabs that card, and at the beginning of the next end step it yoinks that card back. Regardless of whether or not it's an artifact at this point.

And I'm excited to send a batch of Pucatrade cards out tomorrow. Should hopefully be getting a bunch of DRAGONS eventually. Trying to build a casual, Timmy, not-very-competitive DRAGON deck.

[Binks]

I suppose my question boils down to. "if a permanent is an artifact on the battlefield, and is sent to the grave. would this emblem bring it back if it's no longer an artifact in the grave?"

Yes. It doesn't care what the thing became when it finished going to the graveyard, all that matters is it was an artifact on the battlefield, it went to your graveyard, and the card is still in the graveyard when it goes to retrieve it. Any changes made to the card in your graveyard are irrelevant as the emblem doesn't ask about the current status of the card.

It's a 'dies' trigger (not literally, but the same idea) so it looks back in time at the status of the card the last moment it was in play and asks 'was that an artifact?'. If the answer is yes then it sets up a delayed trigger of 'at the beginning of the next end step, put this card on the battlefield'. Nothing in the ability cares if the card is currently an artifact in your graveyard.

EDIT: On the topic of Magic Duels it looks like they're going to just barely squeak in on their July 2015 promise for a steam release. Game Informer puts the steam release date as July 29th at the end of their review.
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[tgva8889]

I'm so upset at myself that I didn't get Hangarback Walkers when they were $2. Now they're $8, and this is the second time I've lost the opportunity to get a card I knew was much cheaper than it should have been.

[Ninjaman]

I'm so upset at myself that I didn't get Hangarback Walkers when they were $2. Now they're $8, and this is the second time I've lost the opportunity to get a card I knew was much cheaper than it should have been.

Glad I pulled one in sealed, I thought it was just a crap limited rare.

[Octopusapult]

EDIT: On the topic of Magic Duels it looks like they're going to just barely squeak in on their July 2015 promise for a steam release. Game Informer puts the steam release date as July 29th at the end of their review.
Source

I just wish someone would announce the date officially. I don't understand why I have to call Scooby and the gang to find the release date for a game the month it's supposed to come out. Especially if this is supposed to be the end-all for their online games you'd think they'd want people to be excited about it rather than in the dark...

I mean I live paycheck to paycheck so a F2P is pretty much my only chance to play magic without some disposable income so I'm very much on the outside looking in right now and it's killing me. XD

[Dhavaer]

Sooo... I bought a stupid amount of Origins boosters. I'd like to sell some of the card if I draw anything good. So, two questions:

1) Are there any cards in particular I should look out for? I already have a Kytheon and a Hangarback Walker.

2) What is the usual method of selling cards? Ebay?

[Mystic Muse]

I've used EBay quite a bit and had almost no problem. If a card is particularly expensive, send it with tracking. There are a small number of players who WILL say they never received it.

[Bucky]

We have a tradition here of looking for infinite combos in a set whenever it comes out. I've looked through Magic Origins, but don't see anything promising. Do any of you have one?

[Dhavaer]

Well, I popped open a Pyromancer's Goggles, so it's red deck time. I have lots of cards for it, too many cards in fact. This is what I'm thinking:

Spoiler: The Goggles Do Something!

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Creatures
2x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Mage-Ring Bully
1x Abbot of Keral Keep
2x Bloodfire Expert
4x Scab-Clan Berserker
1x Acolyte of the Inferno

Other
1x Magma Spray
1x Spite of Mogis
4x Titan's Strength
4x Fiery Impulse
4x Lightning Strike
1x Searing Blood
2x Twin Bolt
1x Magma Jet
4x Dragon Fodder
2x Bolt of Keranos
2x Hordeling Outburst
2x Arc Lightning
2x Goblinslide
4x Act of Treason
1x Exquisite Firecraft
1x Pyromancer's Goggles
4x Chandra's Fury

It's pretty straightforward: burn things to activate prowess and eliminate blockers or burn the opponent directly. There are only five cards over three mana, the goggles and the four furies, so I shouldn't be overly reliant on getting a lot of mana, which is good because I have no card draws (although quite a lot of scrying). I'm thinking of getting rid of some of the cards I only have one or two of (twin bolt, magma jet, spite of mogis) and maybe the treasons, although I kind of want them in case of blockers too big to burn down. I also have a pair of Dragon-Style Twins which I liked, but thought might be too pricey. Suggestions?

[Svata]

Since you have a bunch of things that generate goblin tokens already, why not toss in a rabblemaster or two? He's down to about $10. As of this posting there's a lightly played one on TCGplayer for $8.74. Also, maybe replace the Magma Spray with a Wild Slash?

[Dhavaer]

Unfortunately I have neither, and having just spent $200.90 on cards yesterday I'd rather not spend money on more cards when I'm looking to get rid of some.

I'm currently thinking of dropping the Magma Spray, Spite of Mogis, Searing Blood, Twin Bolt, Magma Jet and Arc Lightning. Then I just have to drop four more to get to 40, by my count. 20 mountains sounds good. Should I drop the Treasons?

[Svata]

I'd drop the treasons.

[tgva8889]

We have a tradition here of looking for infinite combos in a set whenever it comes out. I've looked through Magic Origins, but don't see anything promising. Do any of you have one?

This solely from Magic Origins? As far as I can tell, there's no conventional ways to go infinite because everything theoretically repeatable requires mana, and there's no mana engine in Origins that I can find.

Thus far I have Jace's Sanctum allowing you to generate mana theoretically with any number of Dark Petition, Animist's Awakening, and/or Great Aurora (although you can't do so infinitely). Unfortunately the only cards that allow you to loop anything are Reclaim and Day's Undoing, and one of those definitely won't let you do so infinitely, or allow you to easily do anything once you've looped one time. None of these cards are red, so unfortunately Pyromancer's Goggles doesn't work with them. I think that if you want to go actually infinite, the only way to get there involves using Talent of the Telepath and your opponent wanting to help you succeed. Liliana's emblem might also work, and Alhamarret's Archive is certainly an appealing card if you want to go infinite, as multiplying your card drawing will help you chew through your deck efficiently.

Edit: Oooh, wait. We can theoretically put a LOT of copies of Flameshadow Conjuring into play via Starfield of Nyx and Day's Undoing allowing you to skip the beginning of the end step that causes exile the copies. My current count is 30 (The first triggers itself, making 1 token, the second triggers itself plus the other two, the third triggers itself plus the other 6, and the fourth triggers itself plus the other 14). With these we can make an extremely large number of Jace's Sanctums (each one makes potentially 30 copies, so 124?), and with those we can do quite a bit with an X spell of choice. Unfortunately I can't find a loop or anything.

[nightwyrm]

Edit: Oooh, wait. We can theoretically put a LOT of copies of Flameshadow Conjuring into play via Starfield of Nyx and Day's Undoing allowing you to skip the beginning of the end step that causes exile the copies. My current count is 30 (The first triggers itself, making 1 token, the second triggers itself plus the other two, the third triggers itself plus the other 6, and the fourth triggers itself plus the other 14). With these we can make an extremely large number of Jace's Sanctums (each one makes potentially 30 copies, so 124?), and with those we can do quite a bit with an X spell of choice. Unfortunately I can't find a loop or anything.

The copies will go away at your opponent's end step since Conjuring does not specify "your next end step".

[tgva8889]

That's true. I forgot Day's Undoing doesn't actually counter the ability, unlike some other ways to end the turn you can use, it just skips the step. Well, assuming we start with an obscene amount of mana, we can still make a hell of a lot of Flameshadow Conjurings.

[Dhavaer]

If I fill my deck to the brim with draw effects, would that make having >60 cards less of a weakness? I'm building a blue sphinx mill deck and I'm not sure what to drop, if anything.

Spoiler: Core Cards (Draw/Mill)

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Creatures
4x Faerie Miscreant
4x Jeskai Sage
2x Runed Servitor
2x Jhessian Thief

Other
2x Divination
4x Artificer's Epiphany
4x Sphinx's Tutelage
4x Dreadwaters
1x Talent of the Telepath
1x Alhammarret's Archive

The above should be more or less self-explanitory, I think, it's all either draw to fuel Tutelage or a separate source of milling. My problem is that it needs something else, and I'm not sure what. My first idea was to throw in two Swords of the Animist to fuel Dreadwaters and a bunch of tap-doesn't-untap cards like Send to Sleep, so the Thieves and whatever is carrying the swords can attack with impunity.

Spoiler: Tap, Tap, Tap the Enemy Blockers!

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Creatures
1x Ornithopter
2x Frost Lynx

Other
2x Sword of the Animist
3x Send to Sleep
4x Crippling Chill

I like the tapping, but it does have the problem that it can't really get going for quite a while - at best the first thief + sword attack is going to be on turn four, and that wouldn't give me a chance to play Tutelage. So my second idea is to embrace the slow and load up on counters and various defences to keep me alive.

Spoiler: No

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Spells
4x Hydrolash
4x Clash of Wills
2x Bone to Ash
2x Contradict
4x Calculated Dismissal
2x Negate
1x Cancel
1x Dissolve
1x Nullify

Artifacts
1x Orbs of Warding
4x Prism Ring

So, should I go with tap? Counter? Counter, but add the Swords (I think they'll help, I don't need to do damage to trigger them)? Should I drop the thieves if I go counter? Should I add Jace's Sanctums, I have two? If I go counter, should I add more Negates, Contradicts and Bone to Ashes? I didn't because they were either situational or expensive.

[CN the Logos]

If I fill my deck to the brim with draw effects, would that make having >60 cards less of a weakness? I'm building a blue sphinx mill deck and I'm not sure what to drop, if anything.

Not really, because the deck would still be better if it had fewer cards in it. And Sweet Yawgmoth in Phyrexia,this thing's got fifty-seven cards with no lands listed yet. Most EDH decks don't want fifty-seven nonland cards want about forty actual lands unless they have a very low curve or a ton of mana rocks. Your list here has neither of these things.

Om a quasi-related note, what format is this for? Because if you're trying to build something competitive, you should know that with very few exceptions, mill is a trap for new players or a way for bored people who've gotten tired of winning the regular way to do so with the equivalent of a hand tied behind their back. You're basically telling your opponent, "You've got sixty life instead of twenty, and unlike regular life that can be whittled down by any creature that has power and doesn't have defender, your life can only be touched by special cards I've put in the deck for that purpose." I'm not saying "don't play it," because with all of the above in mind, you may have fun playing it. Just know what you're getting into. I thought it was a great idea when I was a newb, no one had the heart to tell me otherwise, and I had to learn from painful experience.

I have to get to work now, so thoughts on specific cards will have to wait until I return, if someone else hasn't done it by then.

[Svata]

Eh, I run 35-40 lands in most of my EDH decks. Works pretty well most of the time. Then again, ten or so are duals. Also, sol ring and a mana elf or two in the ones involving green.

[Ninjaman]

...this thing's got fifty-seven cards with no lands listed yet. Most EDH decks don't want fifty-seven nonland cards unless they have a very low curve or a ton of mana rocks.

fifty-seven nonlands means forty-two lands, which sounds good for a deck with no mana rocks, but as most EDH decks have ramp they have 38-40 lands.

[Svata]

So, what's everyone think of Day's Undoing?

[tgva8889]

So, what's everyone think of Day's Undoing?

I think the card is powerful, but you need to have a good reason to play it. The things that look most interesting to me so far are the Turbo-Fog deck, Molten Vortex, or a deck that can take advantage of drawing 7 cards. There are a few cards that trigger off of drawing a stack of cards at once, specifically Chasm Skulker and Horizon Chimera, and that might be a deck. Molten Vortex seems like an easier way to take advantage of refilling your hand, though.

[ryuplaneswalker]

So, what's everyone think of Day's Undoing?

Could have a place in R/U decks, after you have exhausted your burn and need to refill your hand with instants.

[Ninjaman]

I have heard people talk about it in affinity.

[Lea Plath]

A legacy affinity deck top 8ed with it.

I'm thinking of playing 1-2 copies in scapeshift,

[Androgeus]

There are a few cards that trigger off of drawing a stack of cards at once, specifically Chasm Skulker and Horizon Chimera, and that might be a deck.

Ending the turn now causes any ablities that are still waiting to go on the stack to cease to exist. So things like Chasm Skulker and it's ilk don't work with Day's Undoing if you cast it on your turn.

[tgva8889]

Ending the turn now causes any ablities that are still waiting to go on the stack to cease to exist. So things like Chasm Skulker and it's ilk don't work with Day's Undoing if you cast it on your turn.

Man, I used to know how the rules work, but I've clearly proven that I don't. Well don't combine Day's Undoing with those cards then.

[CN the Logos]

Eh, I run 35-40 lands in most of my EDH decks. Works pretty well most of the time. Then again, ten or so are duals. Also, sol ring and a mana elf or two in the ones involving green.

fifty-seven nonlands means forty-two lands, which sounds good for a deck with no mana rocks, but as most EDH decks have ramp they have 38-40 lands.

Mea culpa. I was waking up, getting ready for work, and numbers decided to abandon my brain. That and I think I've honestly started counted mana rocks as lands in all but type now, so my thoughts were "forty actual lands plus five things that are pretty much lands means fifty-five nonland cards." Still wrong, but you can grok my intended meaning, yes?

In any case it doesn't change the central point, which is that a deck which is over a hundred cards is an awful idea unless you're playing Battle of Wits (which is still an awful idea, but also a totally awesome one, making you a man among men or woman among women, whichever). Especially when a not insignificant chunk of those cards are things like Crippling Chill, Hydrolash, and Prism Ring. I mean, if this is kitchen table, that's cool. I love me some casual silliness. I'll offer suggestions to maximize that, if it's what Dhavaer is going for. But repeatedly failing to get the cards you need and doing nothing while the other player kicks the crap out of you because you've got such a small chance of getting the right thing isn't the sort of thing most people consider fun.

In other news, finally got some excellent proxies made for my EDH generals. Some might require knowledge of the artwork's inspiration to appreciate, but I'm really pleased with all of them. The name in the artist space, BaronVonVaderham, is the screen name of the guy who edited the artwork to create the cards and then printed them onto actual cards for me; artwork was just taken from wherever I could find it. No disrespect to the original artists intended, these are solely for my personal use in games with my local EDH group and neither I nor the Baron are going to claim the original art is ours. I also own actual copies of the proxied cards.

Spoiler: Cards!

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[Dhavaer]

Dropping the Epiphanies (I didn't have enough artifacts to use them without the rings or orbs) gets the tap down to a much slimmer 36 cards.

Spoiler: Sphinx's Prowess

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Creatures
4x Faerie Miscreant
4x Jeskai Sage
2x Runed Servitor
2x Jhessian Thief
1x Ornithopter
2x Frost Lynx

Other
2x Divination
4x Sphinx's Tutelage
4x Dreadwaters
1x Talent of the Telepath
1x Alhammarret's Archive
2x Sword of the Animist
3x Send to Sleep
4x Crippling Chill

It also has the mild advantage that the prowess creatures can do a reasonable bit of sword enhanced face punching should the tutelages not show up on schedule. I don't think it would win that way, but you never know.