Gandalf V.S Jason

[ArlEammon]

Gandalf the Grey is looking around his surroundings. He appears in a modern Medieval Fair, with people commenting on how interesting his costume is, since he has Glamdring and a real wizard's staff. Gandalf senses great evil entering the fair. The fair ends at 9 O'Clock, but Gandalf is assumed for some reason to be a part of the work staff. Both employees and customers ignore him even as he stays behind searching for the evil that he can sense.

A stupid pair of horny teenagers are seen getting physical with each other just as Jason has a real Medieval sword in his hand, and with one swoop of the sword, he cleaves them both in two in cold blooded murder. Gandalf realizes that's his qeau. He races to Jason and challenges him to a battle just as Jason turns around silently and readies his sword in a fighting stance.

Who wins?

[BWR]

Combat-wise Jason isn't much to write home about, at least not compared to a balrog or a ringwraith. He's basically slightly stronger than a human, tougher, surprisingly stealthy but slow. So in any face-off I'd give it to Gandalf.
It's his relentless ability to come back that's a problem so G may be taken by surprise if he thinks he's already taken care of J, and I'm not sure how he'd handle J permanently. Defeat him, tie him up, whistle for the eagles and take a trip to Mt Doom?

[ArlEammon]

Combat-wise Jason isn't much to write home about, at least not compared to a balrog or a ringwraith. He's basically slightly stronger than a human, tougher, surprisingly stealthy but slow. So in any face-off I'd give it to Gandalf.
It's his relentless ability to come back that's a problem so G may be taken by surprise if he thinks he's already taken care of J, and I'm not sure how he'd handle J permanently. Defeat him, tie him up, whistle for the eagles and take a trip to Mt Doom?

I don't know but I do know that Gandalf is respected for his intelligence and wisdom in the universe of Lord of the Rings. He can also handle getting killed once, which would transform him into Gandalf the White.

[Legato Endless]

I don't know but I do know that Gandalf is respected for his intelligence and wisdom in the universe of Lord of the Rings. He can also handle getting killed once, which would transform him into Gandalf the White.

That's not an innate ability though. Are we just giving him one auto-revive?

Combat-wise Jason isn't much to write home about, at least not compared to a balrog or a ringwraith. He's basically slightly stronger than a human, tougher, surprisingly stealthy but slow. So in any face-off I'd give it to Gandalf.
It's his relentless ability to come back that's a problem so G may be taken by surprise if he thinks he's already taken care of J, and I'm not sure how he'd handle J permanently. Defeat him, tie him up, whistle for the eagles and take a trip to Mt Doom?

Is this who would win in a fight or would be able to finally kill the other? This is the same issue that plagues Wolverine threads. Just because Wolverine isn't killed doesn't mean he didn't lose the battle if his opponent successfully knocks him out.

If it's the latter, then yeah, that's definitely an issue. While I could see Tom Bombadil finishing off Jason, that sounds like cheating having Gandalf call on his assistance.

[Kid Jake]

I think in the end it all comes down to how horny Gandalf is.

[The Glyphstone]

Jason is only really scary in comparison to the teenagers/young adults who are his usual prey. He's super-strong and super-tough, but so are Orcs and Uruk-Hai, and Gandalf can fight his way through large numbers of them just fine. Jason's 'special' is his immortality, which won't help him actually win the confrontation.

So I think Gandalf takes this, unless he totally drops the ball and underestimates Jason as a combatant (unlikely since he just watched him cleave two people in half).

[Sapphire Guard]

Gandalf has much more experience in sword to sword combat, don't see him losing this without serious bad luck.

[ArlEammon]

Gandalf has much more experience in sword to sword combat, don't see him losing this without serious bad luck.

Jason might find a chain saw. Medieval fares are often in big sandy lots if your in the West, or in woodsy parts if you're in a woodsy area.

[Dhavaer]

Jason might find a chain saw. Medieval fares are often in big sandy lots if your in the West, or in woodsy parts if you're in a woodsy area.

I would not wish to be on the chainsaw side of a chainsaw vs magic sword fight. At least another sword won't send a chain flying at high speed towards your face when it's parried.

[ArlEammon]

I would not wish to be on the chainsaw side of a chainsaw vs magic sword fight. At least another sword won't send a chain flying at high speed towards your face when it's parried.

Jason can't die by being cut apart. Gandalf's a wizard remember? That's more what I"m worried about on Jason's side, not Ian McKellan cutting him to pieces with Glamdring.

[nyjastul69]

Gandalf is more a plot device than a character. Jason is more a character than a plot device. Plot device wins. If they are both plot devices, the answer is, who wrote it?

[ArlEammon]

Gandalf is more a plot device than a character. Jason is more a character than a plot device. Plot device wins. If they are both plot devices, the answer is, who wrote it?

GRR Martin?

[Jayngfet]

Gandalf brandishes his elvish blade honed by the ancient masters that has been used to slay scores of the most horrible of evil in his world, wielding it with a form that has been mastered over untold ages of combat.

Jason has a "real medieval sword", forged using inferior methods and low quality metal, worn down from centuries of probably being in some dudes shed or else in the ground.

The very instant one hits the other Jasons blade will snap in half and he'll be defenseless, as even a Balrogs larger and superior blade broke into tiny pieces on contact. Then he physically can not stand a chance given he now can't get within punching range without getting hit multiple times and from an opponent who has harmed far worse with far less. Gandalf is not a mortal sorcerer or even a "mere" elf using magic rings and weapons to exert great power. He is essentially a god made flesh, in flesh that simply appears old, and has all the power entailed therein.

Realistically they wouldn't even parry. Gandalf simply rips the sword out of Jasons hand, as he's proven capable of doing, and explodes him with magic fire, another thing he's capable of doing that people often forget, and the whole thing just ends there.

[ArlEammon]

Gandalf brandishes his elvish blade honed by the ancient masters that has been used to slay scores of the most horrible of evil in his world, wielding it with a form that has been mastered over untold ages of combat.

Jason has a "real medieval sword", forged using inferior methods and low quality metal, worn down from centuries of probably being in some dudes shed or else in the ground.

The very instant one hits the other Jasons blade will snap in half and he'll be defenseless, as even a Balrogs larger and superior blade broke into tiny pieces on contact. Then he physically can not stand a chance given he now can't get within punching range without getting hit multiple times and from an opponent who has harmed far worse with far less. Gandalf is not a mortal sorcerer or even a "mere" elf using magic rings and weapons to exert great power. He is essentially a god made flesh, in flesh that simply appears old, and has all the power entailed therein.

Realistically they wouldn't even parry. Gandalf simply rips the sword out of Jasons hand, as he's proven capable of doing, and explodes him with magic fire, another thing he's capable of doing that people often forget, and the whole thing just ends there.

He will always come back if there's anything left. . . but yes I agree with you. Gandalf just shrugs his shoulder after enough burning, shocking, freezing, whatever, and just somehow causes him to be torn apart until it's very impractical trying to bring Jason back together.

[BWR]

Gandalf is more a plot device than a character. Jason is more a character than a plot device. Plot device wins. If they are both plot devices, the answer is, who wrote it?

Jason is a character? That's an interesting opinion. His entire personality is "Kill people". Nothing else. His entire purpose in the movies is 'kill people'. That's less characterization and less advanced plot description than Gandalf with his 'be a source of information and motivation for people, and be generally awesome'. If Gandalf is a plot device for moving people in the right direction, Jason is a plot device to make people run around and try not to die.

[nyjastul69]

Jason is a character? That's an interesting opinion. His entire personality is "Kill people". Nothing else. His entire purpose in the movies is 'kill people'. That's less characterization and less advanced plot description than Gandalf with his 'be a source of information and motivation for people, and be generally awesome'. If Gandalf is a plot device for moving people in the right direction, Jason is a plot device to make people run around and try not to die.

You are correct. Both are simple plot devices. I was just trying to create dynamic that simply doesn't exist. I should stay out of vs. threads. Unless they involve pie and ice cream of course.

[ArlEammon]

You are correct. Both are simple plot devices. I was just trying to create dynamic that simply doesn't exist. I should stay out of vs. threads. Unless they involve pie and ice cream of course.

[Legato Endless]

Jason is a character? That's an interesting opinion. His entire personality is "Kill people". Nothing else. His entire purpose in the movies is 'kill people'. That's less characterization and less advanced plot description than Gandalf with his 'be a source of information and motivation for people, and be generally awesome'. If Gandalf is a plot device for moving people in the right direction, Jason is a plot device to make people run around and try not to die.

Hey now. Jason is driven to make his mom happy after she taught him the valuable lesson of indiscriminately killing people who live in the area of where some unrelated people allowed you to die. He's tortured to try to please his parent, but that early tragedy warped his whole moral structure and forced him to assume a masked persona of vengeance. He's an evil Freudian Batman. There's like, layers there. Layers!

[ArlEammon]

Hey now. Jason is driven to make his mom happy after she taught him the valuable lesson of indiscriminately killing people who live in the area of where some unrelated people allowed you to die. He's tortured to try to please his parent, but that early tragedy warped his whole moral structure and forced him to assume a masked persona of vengeance. He's an evil Freudian Batman. There's like, layers there. Layers!

That's right. There's like, two whole layers. But yes he is a person. He just isn't explored that much in the Jason Mythos, he's only a bestial monster who kills people.

I would like to see a movie where they finally defeat Jason for good by excorcising his soul and sending him to Heaven, but his Mask is possessed, and thus the next Jason is chosen by some random person who know one suspected throughout the entire movie.

[The Glyphstone]

The only layers Jason has are the ones he flays off his victims. He is not exactly complex.

[nyjastul69]

I'm sure most know this, the mask thing in Friday the 13th movies came into play in the 3rd movie. Jason isn't the killer in the first. In the 2nd he is, but he wears a burlap sack with eye holes cut out. It's the third movie in which he dons the mask. The burlap sack is scarier IMO.

[ArlEammon]

The only layers Jason has are the ones he flays off his victims. He is not exactly complex.

No. He's evil, but I find it reprehensible he's in a no-win situation where it's impossible for him to think for himself enough to atone for all his murders.

I'm sure most know this, the mask thing in Friday the 13th movies came into play in the 3rd movie. Jason isn't the killer in the first. In the 2nd he is, but he wears a burlap sack with eye holes cut out. It's the third movie in which he dons the mask. The burlap sack is scarier IMO.

Yeah. I would prefer if the original Jason movie monster were excorcised since he's really just a kid/mentally challenged zombie guy.

[Mato]

Jason and thread over.

Jason's deal is that he is an unstoppable killing machine. In Jason X the government has literally imprisoned him and tried every known method of execution. Jason survives so they give up and medically imprison him using heavy sedation and physically restrain him with steel manacles and chains. Jason somehow kills someone and trades places with them even while under constant surveillance. And this isn't really an X fluke, in the 8th film Jason's plot-powered jumping to victims reaches a level that can only be explained as teleportation.

For durability & strength in the 6th film a shovel is broken over his face dealing little to no damage, he's been shown to punch through concrete and lift entire trees over the series as well. In Final Friday it's explained that every time he resurrects, his strength increases. And even if his body were fully destroyed, and I mean on above the level of dragged-into-hell or thrown into a black hole (seriously, third X novel it happens) because he has recovered from both, it's been revealed he can possess other bodies.

What can Gandolf do against an unstoppable killer? Well let's talk about him for a moment. Gandolf has never beaten an opponent stronger than him and constantly loses. Against an equally powerful opponent (yes gandolf and the balrog are same-category lesser maiar), he still dies. Four of the weak-to-fire nazgul were capable of overwhelming him too and they're technically not even truly immortal just expert swordsmen with poisonous blades. The only enemy Gandolf has been consistently shown to kill are orcs which are weaker, less durable, and even less intelligent than Jason, and almost every none-hobbit hero in LotR has a higher kill count than him.

So you can't trap Jason, you can't permanently kill him, and even bodiless he can continue to hunt his prey down. And his opponent is a sword bearing flaming pinecone throwing old man that has such an enormous losing streak against supernatural beings that he uses hobbits to get things done. Done and done.

[Jayngfet]

Jason and thread over.

Jason's deal is that he is an unstoppable killing machine. In Jason X the government has literally imprisoned him and tried every known method of execution. Jason survives so they give up and medically imprison him using heavy sedation and physically restrain him with steel manacles and chains. Jason somehow kills someone and trades places with them even while under constant surveillance. And this isn't really an X fluke, in the 8th film Jason's plot-powered jumping to victims reaches a level that can only be explained as teleportation.

For durability & strength in the 6th film a shovel is broken over his face dealing little to no damage, he's been shown to punch through concrete and lift entire trees over the series as well. In Final Friday it's explained that every time he resurrects, his strength increases. And even if his body were fully destroyed, and I mean on above the level of dragged-into-hell or thrown into a black hole (seriously, third X novel it happens) because he has recovered from both, it's been revealed he can possess other bodies.

What can Gandolf do against an unstoppable killer? Well let's talk about him for a moment. Gandolf has never beaten an opponent stronger than him and constantly loses. Against an equally powerful opponent (yes gandolf and the balrog are same-category lesser maiar), he still dies. Four of the weak-to-fire nazgul were capable of overwhelming him too and they're technically not even truly immortal just expert swordsmen with poisonous blades. The only enemy Gandolf has been consistently shown to kill are orcs, and almost every none-hobbit hero in LotR has a higher kill count than him.

So you can't trap Jason, you can't permanently kill him, and even bodiless he can continue to hunt his prey down. And his opponent is a sword bearing flaming pinecone throwing old man that has such an enormous losing streak against supernatural beings that he uses hobbits to get things done. Done and done.

Gandalf is telekinetic and can auto explode items by looking at them. Breaking a shovel has no consequence in terms of force or scale.

[Mato]

Gandalf is telekinetic and can auto explode items by looking at them. Breaking a shovel has no consequence in terms of force or scale.

In the film he has powerful telekinesis, in the novel it's limited to moving objects. Also completely irrelevant because Jason can survive explosions, regenerated from nothing, and doesn't need his body to win. "Unstoppable" killer in this case has really no exceptions as long as people bone each other by his lake (or another supernatural being calls him).

LotR is not D&D or Harry Potter. Most of Gandolf's "magic" is inspirational or wisdom, and even his superiors such as the witch-king who could shatter Gandolf the White's staff with a glance is comparably weak enough to be killed by a novice swordswomen with a normal blade.

And isn't not the shaft of the shovel that broke, but the metal blade at the end. This means Jason's face/mask were at once point capable of breaking hardened steel. How many times will he have to die before even Glamdring shatters? The answer is a finite amount and that's all that really matters because Jason is an infinite constant, there is only one end to things.

[Jayngfet]

In the film he has powerful telekinesis, in the novel it's limited to moving objects. Also completely irrelevant because Jason can survive explosions, regenerate from nothing, and doesn't need his body to win. "Unstoppable" killer in this case has no exceptions.

LotR is not D&D or Harry Potter. Most of Gandolf's "magic" is inspirational or wisdom.

And isn't not the shaft of the shovel that broke, but the metal blade at the end. This means Jason's face/mask were at once point capable of breaking hardened steel. How many times will he have to die before even Glamdring shatters? The answer is a finite amount and Jason is an infinite value, there is only one end.

...and Gandalf parried and auto exploded a far larger metal blade.

Not to mention that they, if you want inspirational wisdom stuff on the fundamental nature of things, which is kind of Gandalf's specialty, that's kind of exactly what you need to stop Jason.

[The Glyphstone]

Glamdring won't shatter, not unless Jason has magic of his own. The thing about magic weapons is that they're more than just metal, particularly in a Tolkenian mythos - they're emblems of power. It takes equal or greater power, in the metaphysical sense, to break an enchanted weapon, not just beating it against a tough object like Jason's skull repeatedly. The Witch-King had the will and power to shatter Gandalf's staff, same as how Sauron was able to break Narsil - Jason's strengths are purely in the physical realm. He's at best a particularly nasty troll who keeps coming back from the dead, not a balrog or even a Nazgul. Gandalf couldn't wade through an army of Jasons, but he can fight one and win.

Considering Gandalf is also immortal, if he can beat Jason once, he can beat him an infinite number of times assuming he has nothing better to do, which is presumably true since the two combatant are inside a pocket versus universe.

[Coidzor]

Gandalf realizes that's his qeau.

Oh, come on now, give Gandalf some credit here, he'd definitely realize his cue was well before the stupid kids were murdered.

[Killer Angel]

Glamdring won't shatter, not unless Jason has magic of his own.

...and what if Gandalf meets Freddy K.? Does Gandalf sleep?

[The Glyphstone]

...and what if Gandalf meets Freddy K.? Does Gandalf sleep?

I have no idea. But that would be a much more interesting versus - Freddy is vastly powerful in dreams, but we've seen he can be beaten or at least fended off, and a being of Gandalf's tier is going to have massive willpower.