Erfworld 47 (Page 43)

[Vox]

Okay, here's MY take on what transpired:

Prologue: The Archons are detected via Lookamancy (or an equivalent method). Parson, after learning what they are/what they are capable of, says something along the lines of "Boop Booping Boopity Boop, we can't take those booping boops", and calls off the attack. He makes this decision because, as he says later, Ansom decided to stay with the main column, therefore making an attack useless

Stanley realizes that Charlie is now working with Ansom, and flies into one of his proverbial rages, (as Wanda notes, he has a strong personal dislike for Charlie). The Tool (still raging), gives various harebrained orders, such as countermanding Parson's decision to retreat, and has to be talked out of a suicidal attack by Parson and Wanda (during the course of which discussion, Parson's existence is threatened several times). Parson is completely exasperated when he learns that Stanley could have hired the Archons for their side, but refused. He expresses this in terms that Stanley finds....impolite....and the Tool becoems further enraged. Finally, Stanley gives up the idea of attack, but takes his wrath out on Parson, commenting unfavorably on the massive cost it took to summon him as compared to his knowledge of Erfworld and his use so far. He ends by ordering Wanda to "educate" Parson, before storming off.

Strip picks up with Wanda saying something similar to "What are you thinking about?" Parson's reply is therefore NOT about the failed ambush, but about Stanley's reaction to it (his question about how it could have gone worse reflects his growing realization that his erstwhile superior, who can end his existence with a thought, is going to be a major hindrance in the battle.) This makes his more que reference to the trap more fitting, given that they were discussing Stanley, not the ambush.

Anyway.....

That's all I got.

[jindra34]

Okay, here's MY take on what transpired:

Prologue: The Archons are detected via Lookamancy (or an equivalent method). Parson, after learning what they are/what they are capable of, says something along the lines of "Boop Booping Boopity Boop, we can't take those booping boops", and calls off the attack. He makes this decision because, as he says later, Ansom decided to stay with the main column, therefore making an attack useless

Stanley realizes that Charlie is now working with Ansom, and flies into one of his proverbial rages, (as Wanda notes, he has a strong personal dislike for Charlie). The Tool (still raging), gives various harebrained orders, such as countermanding Parson's decision to retreat, and has to be talked out of a suicidal attack by Parson and Wanda (during the course of which discussion, Parson's existence is threatened several times). Parson is completely exasperated when he learns that Stanley could have hired the Archons for their side, but refused. He expresses this in terms that Stanley finds....impolite....and the Tool becoems further enraged. Finally, Stanley gives up the idea of attack, but takes his wrath out on Parson, commenting unfavorably on the massive cost it took to summon him as compared to his knowledge of Erfworld and his use so far. He ends by ordering Wanda to "educate" Parson, before storming off.

Strip picks up with Wanda saying something similar to "What are you thinking about?" Parson's reply is therefore NOT about the failed ambush, but about Stanley's reaction to it (his question about how it could have gone worse reflects his growing realization that his erstwhile superior, who can end his existence with a thought, is going to be a major hindrance in the battle.) This makes his more que reference to the trap more fitting, given that they were discussing Stanley, not the ambush.

Anyway.....

That's all I got.

Could be...

[Moik]

Exactly. It's felt that way since they started doing "Klogs", actually.

I don't mind the klogs as they're a separate entity, independant from the regular comic for pace and plot. Remove all the klogs, and there's a discernable sudden flashstep from page 42 to page 43. It's two different conversations.

[18:30:42] <Stanley> lol k ambush em
[19:17:22] <Parson> :( pwned
[19:17:25] <Audience> ???

[Caledonian]

We've already had the demonstration of what happened. It's visible in the last comic.

[Sebastian Bux]

"Let him have YOUR way" .... fantastic line.

[Scudboy]

Have you ever played a strategy game where the units survived long enough to age?

Dominions II has a rapid-aging global spell ("Burden of Time") which is kind of a fun thing to cast if you're playing undead-heavy. As long as you don't mind all the other players beating you down for it. D III has most of its "wizard" units start out pretty old already, meaning that they start picking up afflictions (permanent penalties) pretty quickly as the game goes along.

[Schattenjaeger]

I've been working my way (slowly) through another Neal Stephenson book (Cryptonomicon) and so I'm kinda used to the "big gaps and switching POV" stuff, because Neal does this CONSTANTLY. However, he also frequently goes back afterwards and fills in the gaps. This is actually a good thing in telling long, drawn out stories, because it breaks up the droning, sequential plotline and keeps the reader awake and asking questions by jumping forwards and backwards in the timeline. Even more so when the switching points of view are (such as in Cryptonomicon) also switching between entire chunks of timeline (two entire generations) and, inside the different generations, sometimes having one segment on one character group be chronologically out of synch with another. It sounds and looks like a real mess, but it all falls into place, and I think makes the story much more enjoyable in the long run. I hope, now, to see Rob and Jami following this pattern in Erfworld.

[Viridian]

Others have said this, but the reason it feels like there's a missing page isn't because we didn't see the battle (and yes, I'm intelligent enough to read a story that skips stuff like that, thankyouverymuch). It's because we know NOTHING about how the battle was resolved, other than it was a loss for Stanley. Did they scry the Archons and call off the attack or did their ambush turn into a counter-ambush? And what happened to Jillian? If there was a fight, how many dwagons did Stanley lose?

I can certainly deal with Rob skipping the battle, but skipping the battle and not even telling us what happened? Not even one line, like "Crap, I can't believe it - seven dwagons lost and Jillian escaped and now we've got a powerful new enemy who could have been our ally" to sum things up for us.

THAT is what makes it feel like we skipped a page.

[innovan]

The capital is becoming more Gormenghast. I like it!

Being Charlies Angels their main power may have been warp in and cast Flower-power. Which I'm proposing is like Ceasefire in AoM
http://aom.heavengames.com/gameinfo/powers/greek . It prevents all combat for a set amount of time. Which wouldn't be worth burning panels to show.

It's also possible that Summon Angels is a Godpower that now burned, can't be used anymore the rest of the game. And it's also possible that the angels are sticky to that X,Y and having warped in, can't be moved. Especially, they can't be moved to the front.

And they're also going to time out quickly --if Charlie had them fighting to the death every time he responded, he rather quickly wouldn't have any to send out at all, would he?

I propose "not get any worse" means a full day of Tools' verbal abuse.

Since there's so much curiousity about how orders work here, how is Parson coming along at learning to give orders successfully? Ordering around Bogroll could be a fun sight gag under the text, as would using up his left over command points at the end of the turn on silly orders trying to get the feel for the limits of the system. Like Parson writes down his command in panel 1 while talking, and a later panel we see the results under the conversation, possibly even just in the background behind the characters.

Other sight gags for Tool to use during heavy exposition would be wacking things with the Arkenhammer and seeing happens, shadow boxing in play battles with any of the scary faces all over the place, stacking things either Jenga or House of Cards style.

And Marbits and Peeps are going to taste really good to Parson, and he's going to find himself compelled to eat them whenever he can. There's gotta be multiple single panel sight gags there.

[Rocheforte]

Okay, here's MY take on what transpired:

Spoiler

Show

Prologue: The Archons are detected via Lookamancy (or an equivalent method). Parson, after learning what they are/what they are capable of, says something along the lines of "Boop Booping Boopity Boop, we can't take those booping boops", and calls off the attack. He makes this decision because, as he says later, Ansom decided to stay with the main column, therefore making an attack useless

Stanley realizes that Charlie is now working with Ansom, and flies into one of his proverbial rages, (as Wanda notes, he has a strong personal dislike for Charlie). The Tool (still raging), gives various harebrained orders, such as countermanding Parson's decision to retreat, and has to be talked out of a suicidal attack by Parson and Wanda (during the course of which discussion, Parson's existence is threatened several times). Parson is completely exasperated when he learns that Stanley could have hired the Archons for their side, but refused. He expresses this in terms that Stanley finds....impolite....and the Tool becoems further enraged. Finally, Stanley gives up the idea of attack, but takes his wrath out on Parson, commenting unfavorably on the massive cost it took to summon him as compared to his knowledge of Erfworld and his use so far. He ends by ordering Wanda to "educate" Parson, before storming off.

Strip picks up with Wanda saying something similar to "What are you thinking about?" Parson's reply is therefore NOT about the failed ambush, but about Stanley's reaction to it (his question about how it could have gone worse reflects his growing realization that his erstwhile superior, who can end his existence with a thought, is going to be a major hindrance in the battle.) This makes his more que reference to the trap more fitting, given that they were discussing Stanley, not the ambush.

Anyway.....

That's all I got.

(none of that was really spoiler, I just didn't want to clutter up the thread with a duplicate)

The scenario you describe involves too much main character interaction to be skipped. It would require a strip of its own. By effectively covering up the ambush attempt with an ellipsis, the most probable scenario indicated by the immediate context is implied. Your theory might be accurate, but it's far more likely that it was just a lost battle, with casualties yet to be revealed. Since Parson can't imagine it being a worse disaster, I suspect a few more dwagons got croaked.

[Nerd_Paladin]

The problem with the battle is that the most important aspect of it, Ansom not being there, was a negative, and it's hard to convey a negative in an exciting way, particularly in a visual medium. Imagine writing that comic: units wade in, fighting starts, suddenly someone points out "Hey, where's the Prince?" Fighting ends. Rather anticlimactic aye?

[Bogardan_Mage]

There must be more to it than that, however, or Stanley would have bought more troops.

Well there's upkeep. Stanley gripes about Parson's 1000 schmucker upkeep. Also, Stanley's just very tight with money. He was loathe to pay for Parson in the first place, and was still reluctant even after Wanda pointed out the inherent necessity. It didn't seem to occur to him that if he was overrun he wouldn't be able to spend his money.

As to the child thing, perhaps lineages still can work. All the child comment indicates is that units don't age (necessarily). It doesn't mean they can't have parents or offspring or siblings. I don't know (nor am I sure I want to know) the logistics of it, but just because there's no infant form doesn't mean there can be no procreation.

[Glome]

Now one wonders if they even have sexual organs, or if they are just barbie dolls under the clothes. That puts a bit of the sexual ambiguity of Wanda and Jillian's relationship into light!

Oh, and it smashes the "sisters" theory flat for good, thank goodness.

But if there are no children, how are there nobles and royals? I wonder how noble houses are determined?

If Erfworlders were sexless, then Mung's joke about getting an erection after seeing Wanda in her outfit wouldn't make any sense.

My personal take on this comment is that erfworlders do actually reproduce and have offspring, but there is no development phase called 'child' in an erf worlders life. Basically, two erf worlders have sex and after a period of time a new unit 'pops' in existence as their full developed offspring. Basically this maintains bloodlines such as nobility (as well as possibly stats), while getting rid of boring non-strategy game related issues of childhood.

[SteveMB]

Perhaps this is a moot point, but how do you know that the, "What's a child?" comment meant there are no children in Erfworld? Couldn't it mean that they're called something else? It's not so hard for me to believe that certain things would have names more than a letter or two off from the English version.

I don't think it could be that -- the meaning of the word is obvious from the context ("Were you always this scary? Even as a child?")... unless that context simply does not apply to Wanda (and presumably Erfworlders in general).

If Erfworlders were sexless, then Mung's joke about getting an erection after seeing Wanda in her outfit wouldn't make any sense.

Good catch.

My personal take on this comment is that erfworlders do actually reproduce and have offspring, but there is no development phase called 'child' in an erf worlders life. Basically, two erf worlders have sex and after a period of time a new unit 'pops' in existence as their full developed offspring. Basically this maintains bloodlines such as nobility (as well as possibly stats), while getting rid of boring non-strategy game related issues of childhood.

Hmmm... that sounds like it would fit the concept. I'm definitely curious about what Parson will make of it in his klog entry.

[the_tick_rules]

what if Stanley hired the archons? Him, Wanda, and Stanley, that makes three. Erfworld seems to like being unpredictable

[Adrien]

I've been working my way (slowly) through another Neal Stephenson book (Cryptonomicon) and so I'm kinda used to the "big gaps and switching POV" stuff, because Neal does this CONSTANTLY. However, he also frequently goes back afterwards and fills in the gaps. This is actually a good thing in telling long, drawn out stories, because it breaks up the droning, sequential plotline and keeps the reader awake and asking questions by jumping forwards and backwards in the timeline. Even more so when the switching points of view are (such as in Cryptonomicon) also switching between entire chunks of timeline (two entire generations) and, inside the different generations, sometimes having one segment on one character group be chronologically out of synch with another. It sounds and looks like a real mess, but it all falls into place, and I think makes the story much more enjoyable in the long run. I hope, now, to see Rob and Jami following this pattern in Erfworld.

But there's a difference between switching back and forth among perspectives, and simply overlooking one in a series of chronological events. It's that whole "implied passage of time" dealie.

Er, rather more to the point, it can be assumed that, after a chapter break, an unspecified amount of time has passed. But the reader expects the events of the next page to follow those of the previous. It's fine to mix that up if your intention is for the reader to be disorientated, but otherwise... It still happens.

[TheJustWiseSage]

I don't think it could be that -- the meaning of the word is obvious from the context ("Were you always this scary? Even as a child?")... unless that context simply does not apply to Wanda (and presumably Erfworlders in general).


Hmmm... that sounds like it would fit the concept. I'm definitely curious about what Parson will make of it in his klog entry.

Sounds like a lot of stategy games, you pay the cost of the unit (and it's upkeep on subsequent turns) and it suddenly there next turn ,awaiting it's instructions. No child hood, no training time, it's just there to use as you like, the stats never changing (unless your paying a game where units can gain experience, which with Sizemore attempting to learn magic from the "Hippies" does suggest that some experience can be gained).
Of course, once it croaks it, you no longer pay it's upkeep.

Maybe there's another thought, What do you think would happen if Stanley decided not to pay Parson's upkeep?
In a strategy game, you'd expect a unit would just disappear or go feral, but can that be applied to Parson?


Tim

[fehler]

So, what is the subject of the books Wanda gave Parson. I doubt Magic or Strategy. Erf Politics or History? Anatomy? A review of units and stats (a Monster Manual) for the opposition? This must be what the Klog will address. I'm guessing politics, know-your-sides stuff, etc. Stanley would not be a good source of this kind of information, as to him everyone sucks. We know there's a Magic Kingdom, and that there's other "players" like Charley out there.

[Lefty the Drunken Lush]

Others have said this, but the reason it feels like there's a missing page isn't because we didn't see the battle (and yes, I'm intelligent enough to read a story that skips stuff like that, thankyouverymuch). It's because we know NOTHING about how the battle was resolved, other than it was a loss for Stanley. Did they scry the Archons and call off the attack or did their ambush turn into a counter-ambush? And what happened to Jillian? If there was a fight, how many dwagons did Stanley lose?

We don't know that the battle was a loss for Stanley. We just know that it didn't trap Ansom. They could have killed off everyone else for all we know. Or they could have lost every single dwagon they had. However given Wanda and Parson's relative calm, I doubt the latter. They'd be a little more panicy if they were that bad off, I'd think.

Love the Wednesday line. Nice strip again. I have never claimed to understand it all, or get every reference, but I am still enjoying it.

I think.

[SteveMB]

So, what is the subject of the books Wanda gave Parson. I doubt Magic or Strategy. Erf Politics or History? Anatomy? A review of units and stats (a Monster Manual) for the opposition?

One interesting question: What does Wanda make of Parson at this point?

In the immediate aftermath of the summoning, as soon as Parson (and Wanda) have recovered a bit, she starts in with a fairly "scripted" introduction. After a brief interruption by Stanley's ranting and the "headache spell" question, a couple of hopeful signs emerge: Parson has (according to his reply to Stanley) led armies "hundreds" or "thousands" of times and survived, and he puts one over on Stanley with the "tool" label (which Wanda, judging by her expression, seems to realize).

Then, Parson recognizes the scenery and states that he's been thinking about this battle situation for months. This is the last thing Wanda finds out about Parson before being presented with her "surprise treat".

All in all, she probably thinks she's done fairly well. She might have been expecting a lot worse as a result of being stuck doing the casting herself.

The next time Parson comes to her attention is when she reports to the situation room, where Stanley informs her of Parson's ignorance, and he admits to it. She seems rather less troubled by this development than I'd expect (even allowing for her general air of unflappability), given how much of Gobwin Knob's remaining resources went into summoning him.

Her attitude in the current page definitely seems to indicate that she sees some real promise in Parson (promise toward fulfilling what ends is another question, of course); I definitely see more to it than just carrying out an order from Stanley to get the giant potato man up to speed so they can get some use out of him.

[katana2665]

I also thought Parson was refering to a past conversation. As for "What is a child?" It doesn't mean that those on Erfworld are never children as we know it, it may mean that the word "Child" is incomprehensable to Wanda. Or maybe we are doing the Johnathan Winters thing from Mork and Mindy (Gawd i hope not..). In any event, many have felt something was missing, so my feeling is that a different wording was needed here to get the point across more clearly. Whichever, I'll be back for the next one either way...Nice work.

[Caledonian]

There almost certainly was no battle. When Ansom failed to take the bait, the attack was called off.

But it's not a total loss. They now have a mole in Ansom's forces.

[Rue]

When Parson says he's trying to imagine how that could have gone worse, I don't think he means the battle or Stanley at all. One of the Klogs mentions finding allies, and now he learns that there WERE allies out there, but his Overtool refused to work with them. That's what I think he means by that statement.

[SteveMB]

When Parson says he's trying to imagine how that could have gone worse, I don't think he means the battle or Stanley at all. One of the Klogs mentions finding allies, and now he learns that there WERE allies out there, but his Overtool refused to work with them. That's what I think he means by that statement.

That would fit Parson's comments in panel 3 -- Ansom's failure to take the bait this time was just one of those "boop happens" things, but having a potential ally as an enemy instead because of Stanley's thick-headedness rankles.

[innovan]

"Stanley"? How intimate of a name for Wanda to use.

And she's so motherly towards Parson in 43, like a Mom consoling her son on how to get along better with her husband/his father.

Hmmm...

[SteveMB]

"Stanley"? How intimate of a name for Wanda to use.

She also refers to "Stanley" without using a title in her post-session chat with Jillian. OTOH, the sample size (conversations involving Wanda with Stanley out of earshot) is rather small to draw any conclusions.

And she's so motherly towards Parson in 43, like a Mom consoling her son on how to get along better with her husband/his father.

Hmmm...

Could be, but my read on her attitude is a bit more pragmatic and businesslike.

[DogBrain]

There are no children on Erfworld because dolls don't age. The art style for the Erfwings (someone from Erfworld) isn't "chibi", it's "doll". Wanda might be "human" but not "human" the same way Parson is.

I speculate that Charlie's Archons will look remarkably Barbie-like if we ever get a closer look at them.

[Harr]

Well I'm reading the comic late so normally I wouldn't even comment... but... I've gotta give props for the wonderfully atmospheric use of color in this one. Well-executed atmosphere and color is definitely one of Erf's high-high points.

The cutaway-to-after-the-battle didn't strike me as all that jarring; I guess it was just enough for me to know that it was over and that it went south fast for Parson. The rest isn't really important (I thought). Erf is more about the dialogue and atmosphere than the whack-bang-boing stuff anyway.

The usual thing to do when doing that sort of thing is to temporarily cut away to another scene with other characters (look at Heroes, Lost, or Prison Break for plenty examples), but who would they have cut away to? Bogroll? It was just a tough choice all around.

[SteveMB]

Well I'm reading the comic late so normally I wouldn't even comment... but... I've gotta give props for the wonderfully atmospheric use of color in this one. Well-executed atmosphere and color is definitely one of Erf's high-high points.

I noticed that Wanda's eyes went bright green in this light, which fits. The final panel, pulling up and away to show Parson and Wanda as little figures in the expanse of the library, neatly complements Wanda's question hitting us with a bit of the alien-ness of Erfworld.

[EntilZha]

"What is a child?"

Kind of reminds me of the Star Trek TOS episode "The Apple" where the primitive natives didn't age and lived in a computer-regulated environment (they wondered the same thing when Capt. Kirk and company brought it up).