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Thread: Bad DM Bingo

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    Default Bad DM Bingo

    Playgrounders, I know you've had some bad experiences in the past, but has anyone won the bad DM bingo*? Feel free to contribute your own bingo cards as well!


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    Inspired by Blacky the Blackball's post in this thread.

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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    If I made a card, one square would be "Stole NPCs wholesale from someone else's better campaign". I've seen a GM do that, and they stole my NPCs.
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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    I've personally done "Deadly Random Encounters" back when I was new at the game and didn't understand just how deadly swarms were. To add to the list, I've also done "Only one character is useful for this quest" and "Special snowflake NPCs".

    For ones I haven't personally done, I'd like to add "Uses cut scenes" and "Writes your character's backstory without your input."

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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    Do you have to get bingo from just one DM, or can it be from multiple persons? I've had some pretty bad ones, but no single one can give me bingo.
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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    I have certainly seen a few of these but not all of them are things I can blame the DM for.

    Things like the puzzle with one solution and no clue - our party faced this for a while before giving up and moving on to other areas (areas where we THEN found the clues needed to complete the puzzle). In retrospect not the DMs fault (or not much).

    Same guy wiped the party apart from one guy who escaped with a deadly random encounter. Again, to be fair to him, he was running an open world and NPCs gave us plenty of warning where we were going was very dangerous. Our fault for taking the risk.

    A different DM did reward good acting on social skills - which was ok for months whilst we were all comfortable with it but a new guy joined who had trouble. We had a few very difficult sessions till we worked out a new compromise. I don't blame the DM there - it was the group as a whole.

    Others I also found forgiveable - and actually signs of a good DM. Inconsistent rulings when we were moving to D&D 5th edition and as we developed an understanding of how things worked for example.

    On the other hand I have seen some of the other things on the list destroy games. I dont think I have any lines though.

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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    Changes PC's Alignment. Changes ability's effect without telling player. Changes house-rule mid-game for no good reason. Gives IC benefits for OOC actions. Lies repeatedly about a player's actions.
    Bans the tricks used by the least powerful character, but none of the others. Bans something after it's already on the PC's character sheet. Removes all a PC's equipment and/or abilities. Forces the party to split. Creates enemies which the fighter, archer etc. can only hit on a 20.
    Creates encounters with CR=ECL+5 or more that must be defeated to progress. Doesn't give the characters any indication of what to do. Gets annoyed at players for DM's own mistakes. Penalises players for having a lower CHA than their character. Penalises players for having a lower knowledge bonus than their character.
    Uses something like That Damned Crab. Random rules-lawyering, eg factotum surges as standard action so ability is useless. Buffs high-tier classes or nerfs low-tier ones. Breaks PCs' equipment for no good reason. Conversation in the Featureless Plane of Disembodied Dialogue.
    NPC guards turn out to be level 20 warblades or otherwise far more powerful than they should be. Gives BF/GF/Husband/Wife/Other partner/best friend IC bonuses and/or better loot. Bans books for no good reason ("I don't like DMing with it" is fine, "Truenamers are OP" isn't.) Having characters levelling at different rates. Exemption is made for XP spending characters. Anything which a DM does just because they feel like it without actually having a good reason.
    Last edited by Jormengand; 2015-05-27 at 08:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    Pretty sure I have Bingo. The Mary Sue villains is questionable, but otherwise I've got that first column filled out. Probably the bottom row too. The guy was actually a pretty decent DM, though. Entertaining at least.

    I would add "No Record Keeping". I had one DM who ran combats all in his head. Didn't mark off hit points so occasionally guys who were dead would start attacking again. That's an extreme example, though, and hopefully that doesn't ever happen to anyone else.

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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    "Rewards players for good acting [or] background writing ..."

    Isn't this a feature of a good DM? To encourage roleplay and immersiveness? Sure, it shouldn't be done in a way to put non-RPers in the same party at a big disadvantage, but I've only heard people talk positively about this kind of thing.

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    Loving the stories and jormengand's card. Keep em coming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raphite1 View Post
    "Rewards players for good acting [or] background writing ..."

    Isn't this a feature of a good DM? To encourage roleplay and immersiveness? Sure, it shouldn't be done in a way to put non-RPers in the same party at a big disadvantage, but I've only heard people talk positively about this kind of thing.
    Well, now you're hearing me talking about it negatively! Not everyone is blessed with the gift of the gab; shy people should not be unfairly punished.

    As has been mentioned above, in the right group it can be positive. Though if you all want to play acting games, there are probably better options than D&D.
    Last edited by Ninja_Prawn; 2015-05-27 at 09:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    Guilty of having DM PCs.

    Also what's wrong with rewarding characters for spending more effort on their character?
    Last edited by Sacrieur; 2015-05-27 at 09:40 AM.
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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    For fun, I'll incriminate myself.

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    Forgets to calculate xp and low-balls a random number. Inflicts terrible puns upon the players. Plays Yakety Sax for a boss encounter. Attacks party with a Wall Master expy. Introduces DMPC that purposely fails all knowledge checks.
    PCs find CR 12 encounter of kobolds playing Fizban. Does not say the BBEG is aliens, but... Manages to kill a PC with some kind of food-based golem. Causes player to curse 'Damn you, Digo!' Inflates shop prices just as party acquires large cash reward.
    Throws in an overt reference to Monkey Island. Manages to kill a PC with a toilet. (Free Space) Excuses himself to the bathroom just before climatic reveal. Sends party on quest for MacGuffin that never existed.
    TPK's party with a falling treasure hoard. Loses d20 under the table and just assumes it rolled in his favor. Attacks party with a My Little Pony expy. Makes BBEG sympathetic just to watch PCs squirm with morality issue. Forgets his own house rule and makes something up instead.
    Uses an Optimized Build from GitP as his BBEG. Has a good-aligned chromatic dragon encounter who's still a jerk. Dungeon trap inspired by an imbalanced washing machine. PCs find remains of a Black 2004 Hummer H2 despite cars not existing in campaign universe. Creates terrible M.Knight Shyamalan twist ending for sole purpose of ending the campaign.
    Last edited by DigoDragon; 2015-05-27 at 09:58 AM.
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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    I dontbhave bingo but have seen people who either managed to hit enough of these or who would that I would have it with a different card.

    I would say that 'does not do background research on the setting they chose to run', as in a werewolf game I'm in one of the current plot points (a 'new tribe' of ronin) makes no sense because of the Children of Gaia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    Well, now you're hearing me talking about it negatively! Not everyone is blessed with the gift of the gab; shy people should not be unfairly punished.

    As has been mentioned above, in the right group it can be positive. Though if you all want to play acting games, there are probably better options than D&D.
    I think is is a difference between ' players say what their characters say' and 'players say the gist of what their characters say', I've only really seen the latter work out in the long run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrieur View Post
    Also what's wrong with rewarding characters for spending more effort on their character?
    Mainly that it mechanically penalizes the characters of players who are shy, or simply less eloquent than the people who get rewarded. I have some great players who take a while every session to warm up and get any IC dialogue going, and they still reach for description and dice faster than some others, but they're good players nonetheless. If I'm going to reward RP, I'd rather use a principled system like fate's compels, rather than just throw out rewards for RP that strikes me a certain way.

    In general, I would shy away from anything promoting unequal advancement or resource gain that isn't baked into a system at the base level.

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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrieur View Post
    Guilty of having DM PCs.

    Also what's wrong with rewarding characters for spending more effort on their character?
    Because effort != achievement and that's the only thing the DM can see.

    What I will say though, is DMPCs aren't always bad in and of themselves. They're on my card because they are often symptomatic of other problems.
    Last edited by Ninja_Prawn; 2015-05-27 at 10:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I think is is a difference between 'players characters say what their characters players say' and 'players say the gist of what they want their to characters say', I've only really seen the latter work out in the long run.
    Fixed that for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    Fixed that for you.
    In a play, does a character say what their actor says, or does an actor have to say what their character say? Either way round works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    Some DM's, though, run things such that the character says everything the player says (no OOC talk allowed!). Which is a step beyond just requiring the player to say exactly what he wants the character to say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    Well, now you're hearing me talking about it negatively! Not everyone is blessed with the gift of the gab; shy people should not be unfairly punished.
    The box didn't only specify acting. It also had background writing (taking the time to think about your character and attach them to the world) and penmanship (keeping legible records and/or keeping any records at all). Neither of which are prevented by shyness. (and heck, there are times you can act your character without saying a word)

    Handing out asymmetric rewards can be poorly handled - such as when the rewards heavily favour a particular player so that they begin to outshine others - but that would be covered by favouritism.
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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    I'd be really interested in stories of DMs who ran successful campaigns without hitting any of the spots on either Bingo card, given the apparent assumption that hitting any of those spots makes them a bad DM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockShock View Post
    The box didn't only specify acting. It also had background writing (taking the time to think about your character and attach them to the world) and penmanship (keeping legible records and/or keeping any records at all). Neither of which are prevented by shyness. (and heck, there are times you can act your character without saying a word).
    I don't want to drag this out into a debate about IC rewards for OOC talent, but I'll give it one more post because I feel like you've misunderstood my point. Probably because I went for poetry over clarity.

    Yes, shy people can be good writers. Some would say they're more likely to be so. But being a good writer is still a talent that belongs to the player and not (necessarily) the character. And as I said (or implied) above, claiming to be rewarding effort/commitment is fine, but I suspect that the majority of people who think they're doing that are actually rewarding something other than effort.

    Does that make more sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon
    I'd be really interested in stories of DMs who ran successful campaigns without hitting any of the spots on either Bingo card, given the apparent assumption that hitting any of those spots makes them a bad DM.
    My opinion: hitting a few of these spots occasionally does not make you a bad DM. Many of them can be used positively (I can imagine a fight against The Great And Powerful Trixie would be fun), if you've got the skill. This whole exercise is aimed more at the people who do a whole load of them constantly. Look at the spots as 'red flags' - they could indicate a problem, but you can safely ignore a few.
    Last edited by Ninja_Prawn; 2015-05-27 at 01:51 PM.
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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    Because effort != achievement and that's the only thing the DM can see.

    What I will say though, is DMPCs aren't always bad in and of themselves. They're on my card because they are often symptomatic of other problems.
    I reward them in game with ways to advance the plot and other things, but not with stuff like XP or gold, if that's what you mean. What I mean to say is that it may work out in your favor as a character may show up that knows your character.

    One player of mine wrote an interesting backstory. He has powerful connections in a certain region of the country because of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eisenheim View Post
    Mainly that it mechanically penalizes the characters of players who are shy, or simply less eloquent than the people who get rewarded. I have some great players who take a while every session to warm up and get any IC dialogue going, and they still reach for description and dice faster than some others, but they're good players nonetheless. If I'm going to reward RP, I'd rather use a principled system like fate's compels, rather than just throw out rewards for RP that strikes me a certain way.

    In general, I would shy away from anything promoting unequal advancement or resource gain that isn't baked into a system at the base level.
    I reward good RP'ing as well through a modification of the trait system. But not in a way it would unfair or overpowered. I also may hand out an extra feat or two for exceptional roleplaying. I just consider it prudent to reward effort. I have a wizard that's the best chaotic wizard that I've personally witnessed with a familiar that's as interesting as his main character. He's a role model for all wizards to follow and yes, I gave him an extra feat for it.

    I think that's completely fair, so long as you give equal rewards for equal effort without demonstrating favoritism.
    Last edited by Sacrieur; 2015-05-27 at 01:51 PM.
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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    Heh, judged this off of my first and worst GM

    x -(SW no Wish) x x
    x x x x
    x x x
    x x x
    x x x x


    So close, numerous times, but no bingo.
    Last edited by Dienekes; 2015-05-27 at 02:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockShock View Post
    Handing out asymmetric rewards can be poorly handled - such as when the rewards heavily favour a particular player so that they begin to outshine others - but that would be covered by favouritism.
    Asymmetric rewards work out in games where players are supposed to and able to be independent actors (I also find they work well in 'piecemeal'/point-buy advancement more than level-up advancement due to tighter action/reward connections, and in games with shallower power curves, so people who pull ahead a few points won't outshine the rest of the party), to encourage players to chase their character's goals and act out their character's interests - if you're falling behind the rest of the players, it means you're not 'playing hard enough' - generally by sandbagging or metagaming. Ideally, though, the DM can see the discrepency as well, and allow the player to 'catch up' (Though the player should also be constantly looking for opportunities to do so himself)

    One system I have uses its equivalent of Bennies/Action Points/Fate Points as XP as well. I have yet to see how it works in play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkstar View Post
    Asymmetric rewards work out in games where players are supposed to and able to be independent actors (I also find they work well in 'piecemeal'/point-buy advancement more than level-up advancement due to tighter action/reward connections, and in games with shallower power curves, so people who pull ahead a few points won't outshine the rest of the party), to encourage players to chase their character's goals and act out their character's interests - if you're falling behind the rest of the players, it means you're not 'playing hard enough' - generally by sandbagging or metagaming. Ideally, though, the DM can see the discrepency as well, and allow the player to 'catch up' (Though the player should also be constantly looking for opportunities to do so himself)

    One system I have uses its equivalent of Bennies/Action Points/Fate Points as XP as well. I have yet to see how it works in play.
    I've considered getting rid of things such as nature, virtue, vice, mask, dirge, blood, bone etc. in World of Darkness games and instead tying Willpower regeneration to character goals, where working towards them supplies characters with a steady flow of it. Unfortunately, I've never seen a PC use Willpower/Edge/Fate points in my games despite them being useful, and I was once the only player in a game of Deathwatch to spend a Fate Point (I had been planning to save them for dodge rolls against the boss, but the others needed patching up really badly), I entered the final battle with 0, everyone else ended on 5, and so I don't see it as giving the players the desire to build on the narrative that I want.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    I would add to the card with the following:

    Disapproves of how you play your character and uses passive-aggressive measures to make you play the "right" way. E.g. you want to play a paladin with a great weapon but he thinks paladins should use a sword and board. You are showered with magical longswords and shields but no two-hander, ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    My opinion: hitting a few of these spots occasionally does not make you a bad DM. Many of them can be used positively (I can imagine a fight against The Great And Powerful Trixie would be fun), if you've got the skill. This whole exercise is aimed more at the people who do a whole load of them constantly. Look at the spots as 'red flags' - they could indicate a problem, but you can safely ignore a few.
    My opinion: Behaving in ways labeled 'bad DMing' while sitting in the DM's chair must, per force, make you a bad DM, else the label is misapplied or behavior doesn't influence 'good' or 'bad' metrics. See also: Kurt Vonnegut "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    My opinion: Behaving in ways labeled 'bad DMing' while sitting in the DM's chair must, per force, make you a bad DM, else the label is misapplied or behavior doesn't influence 'good' or 'bad' metrics. See also: Kurt Vonnegut "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
    Ehh... I see it as more of a "How long can you French Kiss before it's a mortal sin" (To quote 'Web Pages that Suck's use of the term).

    Also - that is an incredibly Lawful Stupid viewpoint.
    Last edited by Hawkstar; 2015-05-27 at 05:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    I've certainly seen most of these in various games, if not all of them.

    However, I feel like being on a bingo sheet makes them all seem equally weighted, when some of the issues are much worse than others. Here's my personal ranking of the "bad DM" stuff listed, starting with the worst.

    1. WORST: Heavyhanded railroading
    2. Gives players access to NPCs that will cast Wish on their behalf
    3. Obviously unbalanced houserules
    4. Monsters specifically engineered to counter PCs
    5. Inconsistent rulings
    6. Tells players what their characters do
    7. Tries to control players OOC
    8. IC sanctions for OOC misdemeanors
      ---
    9. Overzealous alignment policing
    10. Impossible skill checks
    11. Rewards players for good acting, background-writing, or penmanship on their character sheet
    12. Hour-long flavor monologues
    13. Unavoidable traps
      ---
    14. Fails to stop disruptive behavior
    15. Creates puzzles with only one correct solution and no clues
    16. Favoritism
    17. All NPCs are expies
      ---
    18. Poor timekeeping
    19. Monsters always fight to the death
    20. Mary Sue villains
    21. No preparation. At all
    22. Abuses TotM
      ---
    23. Contrived "moral quandaries"
    24. DMPCs
    25. Deadly random encounters

    You might notice there are some "---" entries: these are transitions between different degrees of terribleness.

    The list starts off at "you're an absolutely worthless garbage DM-wannabe, and most likely a terrible person too; no one should ever even consider sitting at the same table as you".

    8 -> 9 is where it transitions to "come on man, you're a bad DM and need to start seriously improving".

    13 -> 14 is where it transitions to "eh, you can really do better as a DM".

    17 -> 18 is where it transitions to "you're at least a decent DM, and your sessions might be fun for everyone".

    22 -> 23 is where it transitions to "none of this stuff is even negative, so you're most likely a pretty worthwhile DM, and your sessions are probably fun; let's party!"

    You might be surprised the last (and thus best) entry was for deadly random encounters. That's because "deadly" does not suggest "guaranteed to die" but rather "has a real potential to kill you". I don't think the PCs always need to face encounters they can necessarily overcome; there's usually an option to flee if it's too much for you, and a player should be able to make that determination themselves, rather than metagaming by assuming the narrative will pander to their character. Additionally, it can be fun when you enter a deadly encounter that most people would run from, and you not only stand your ground, but manage to pull off an unlikely victory through exceptional strategy/tactics/teamwork.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Talakeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Denver.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    So many of these categories I want to ask more questions about before I score myself.

    My current DM, no surprise, gets bingo easily and almost blacks out the whole board.

    So I assume the logic behind rewarding players for RP / backstory effort being a bad thing is because the other players assume that rewarding someone else = punishing them? I have often had players complain about this, not because I give them any mechanical rewards, but because the players who care about the world and their character's place in it tend to have a lot more spotlight time and adventure hooks centered around their character or their background. Its kind of a self sustaining cycle.

    Also, is having enemies fight to the death that unusual? I check morale for my enemies (when I remember to), but in my experience most DMs have most monsters fight to the death all the time, I don't think its unusual at all.
    Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Sweden

    Default Re: Bad DM Bingo

    Since when is giving access to NPCs that will cast Wish necessarily a bad thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    Blue text for sarcasm is an important writing tool. Everybody should use it when they are saying something clearly false.

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