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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    I never require a backstory for multiple reasons.

    1. I like the atmosphere of RPG's when they are friendly, laid-back hang-outs where everyone's cooperating for everyone else to have fun. I really dislike the drama that arises when people at an RPG table starts judging each other based on their roleplay style, like "ugh, Alice never has a consistent personality in her characters" or "ugh, Bob always plays the same character" (I do make an exception when someone's using roleplaying as an excuse for toxic OOC behavior). So I don't really want to force players to come up with backstories, and I certainly don't want to put any requirements on their backstories for me to look through and judge.

    2. A lot of players have different roleplaying styles, and I don't want to constrain people who prefer to improvise by demanding they come up with extensive backstories.

    3. I think backstories do kind of burden some roleplayers. In establishing a backstory for their characters, some folks tend to flanderize themselves in-game by keeping to that backstory to an unreasonable degree, so that they'd actually be better roleplayers if they didn't tie themselves down with it.
    It always amazes me how often people on forums would rather accuse you of misreading their posts with malice than re-explain their ideas with clarity.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    I don't require any backstory but if backstory is given then I incorporate it and give perks for it. Thr friends, mentors, and family of a character are all ways for me to give the players information, resources, and allies. Characters without backgrounds are nameless nobodies, homeless outcasts that nobody cares about. If you want to play a nameless drifter fighting against a hostile, uncaring world that's fine. But you aren't going to get anything like discovering an old lover infiltrating the same evil cult that you're infiltrating and get some help or information, or be broken out of prison.

    Sadly my current group is anti-backstory. Every time I wrote one it was ignored and nobody else will do anything but stat blocks. Well, that's not completely true. They'll violently murder anyone who insults them or asks them to pay taxes if they can get away with it.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    I've given up on requiring backstories. Players don't deliver and then I get pissed off and treat them badly. The game is better off if the whole thing is optional.

    Players who do write backstories get their story elements thrown back into the game as a reward. I've never seen a player not want that and it usually helps bring them into the game. Not sure how I'd reward a player who liked backstory, but didn't want that story to become part of the game since I haven't encountered that yet.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    This. Oh my god this. I haaaate seeing random events from my character's past drop into the campaign. If I have to have a fleshed out backstory I usually try to make it as closed off as possible. I like a DM that lets me decide why my character is motivated to do a thing rather than trying to hammer it home with references to a boring crib-sheet I made weeks ago when I had a limited understanding of the world and no real connection to any other PCs. I don't particularly care about where my character has been, if that was the interesting part of their life I'd be playing that.
    (a few more similar quotes)

    Wow, glad to hear I'm not the only one who doesn't like the GM to use my backstory.

    Oftentimes, the backstory (and the entire character hirself!) is something I threw together solely for the purposes of the campaign, so it's not like I have an emotional connection to said backstory anyway. Especially if the GM had demanded the backstory. Thus, when said GM makes use of the backstory, I feel frustrated and railroaded, not compelled and immersed.

    Other times, when I do like my backstory, I prefer that only I use the backstory in ways that I see fit (e.g. how it affects my character's personality). I find it much better that throwing it in the hands of someone else.

    Maybe I don't trust the GM enough with my backstory, even more so when the GM is a stranger. Not everyone's lucky enough to have close friends to play with.

    Quote Originally Posted by valadil View Post
    Not sure how I'd reward a player who liked backstory, but didn't want that story to become part of the game since I haven't encountered that yet.
    No need to 'reward' those kind of players directly. Just let them... well... play as normal. We'll be glad for it.
    Last edited by goto124; 2015-05-27 at 10:26 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    I won't quote anyone, because there are many people who feel the same way. For those people I have a question though:

    In the absence of providing your own backstory, do you object when the GM fleshes one out for you in the game?

    For example, what if an adventure started off with "You are approached by a woman who looks somewhat familiar. It takes you a moment to realize that she is the wife of the head librarian of the Sacred Vaults. You became good friends with her husband, Piegar, while you were studying at the Vaults for your initiation ritual to become a mage. He was the first to give you a formal tour of the city and was also the one to introduce you to the illegal griffin-fighting pens. The two of you even spent a few evenings gambling on fights together. It comes to you that his wife's name is Venetia..."

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Maglubiyet View Post
    In the absence of providing your own backstory, do you object when the GM fleshes one out for you in the game?
    Yes. No one should write someone else's story without permission. That's even worse the the GM forcing me to write a backstory before the game starts- at least in this case, I know beforehand what will come up. Why is the GM writing the backstory for my character?!

    It's alright if the GM and player has talked over and agreed on it before the campaign. Otherwise, a big fat no.
    Last edited by goto124; 2015-05-27 at 10:54 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by goto124 View Post
    Yes. No one should write someone else's story without permission. That's even worse the the GM forcing me to write a backstory before the game starts- at least in this case, I know beforehand what will come up.
    Fair enough. What about a toned down version of my example above? Your character didn't drop fully formed out the sky, there must be someone they know from their life prior to adventuring.

    Would you be upset if the GM said, "you trained with this guy when you were studying to become a mage"?

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Still yes. When I don't write my backstory, I avoided it for reasons already mentioned before. Don't write my backstory for me when we didn't even agree on it.

    It's courtesy.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by goto124 View Post
    Still yes. When I don't write my backstory, I avoided it for reasons already mentioned before. Don't write my backstory for me when we didn't even agree on it.

    It's courtesy.
    Take it a step further back then. "You must've trained with some people when studying to become a mage. Do you think you might know this guy from the wizard academy?"

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    This should happen BEFORE the game starts, and only if the player actually wants to write a story with the GM. Really, should've discussed all those sort of things before the beginning of the campaign.

    That, or the player simply refuses to play with such a stubborn GM.
    Last edited by goto124; 2015-05-27 at 11:23 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Maglubiyet View Post
    Take it a step further back then. "You must've trained with some people when studying to become a mage. Do you think you might know this guy from the wizard academy?"
    Checking with the player to see if this would be a good addition, and then possibly some compromise... I'd be okay with this.
    It always amazes me how often people on forums would rather accuse you of misreading their posts with malice than re-explain their ideas with clarity.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by goto124 View Post
    This should happen BEFORE the game starts, and only if the player actually wants to write a story with the GM. Really, should've discussed all those sort of things before the beginning of the campaign.

    That, or the player simply refuses to play with such a stubborn GM.
    Sure, but courtesy works both ways. If you're going to be playing in someone's campaign you might want to meet them halfway. Backstory might not come up initially, but may become important later.

    Really, I don't understand having zero flexibility on a character's non-background. The presence of a living, breathing being in a campaign world begs the question of exactly how it came to be there. If a player doesn't provide the narrative of why it's there, then the GM should be able to fill in a few details as necessary.

    A RPG is telling a story. You at least want to know a little bit about the main characters in that story. "Mysterious brooding loner without a past" gets old pretty quickly.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Maglubiyet View Post
    Your character didn't drop fully formed out the sky, there must be someone they know from their life prior to adventuring.
    A 4e Shardmind born yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maglubiyet
    A RPG is telling a story. You at least want to know a little bit about the main characters in that story. "Mysterious brooding loner without a past" gets old pretty quickly.
    But really this ^

    Give some unique reasons why to the GM your character doesn't have a backstory. This is a Role Playing game
    Last edited by rafet; 2015-05-28 at 07:19 AM.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    I rarely bother with backstories for my characters beyond country of origin and whatever other social and political organizations the PCs belong to. Mostly because I have little concept of personality before I've played a PC a while. A backstory that suddenly doesn't work with how the character has turned out is useles, and most of the DM's I play under don't bother with backstories - where you are from isn't interesting; it's where you are going.

    As a DM I don't require them and rarely bother with them if they are provided. It has happened that too much of a detailed backstory getting in the way of the current game. By all means, determine where your character started but it doesn't need to be more than 'grew up on a farm and left for fame and fortune'. Some games make more of a big deal about pre-game life than others and if the mechanics support it, it can be good for the character and game (Ars Magica is pretty good at this).

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Maglubiyet View Post
    Really, I don't understand having zero flexibility on a character's non-background. The presence of a living, breathing being in a campaign world begs the question of exactly how it came to be there. If a player doesn't provide the narrative of why it's there, then the GM should be able to fill in a few details as necessary.
    At the very least, a little backstory can be a benefit to the player by giving them a couple NPCs they can go to for information. Like having connections.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    I hear the objections to the GM using your backstory as a form of forced motivation. And I agree with that; that's heavy-handed and inching towards railroading. But here's the thing - backstory isn't just a source of morality anvils and blackmail. There's so much more you can do with it.

    For example, let's say that, in your backstory, your mother told you the legend of X as a bedtime story. Fast-forward to the present game, you're in a puzzle dungeon, and there are murals in each room. The DM informs you that they depict the legend of X. Well, you learned that growing up; you recall the story, which helps you solve the puzzles and advance. The DM isn't forcing you to do anything; rather, he's using your character's unique experiences to give you a moment in the spotlight.

    Another example; in the Monk's backstory, when he was young, a traveling martial artist came to town, and saw him practicing in his yard. The traveler told him to drop by if he was ever in the Capital. Fast-forward to the present game, and the party is in the Capital with some down-time. The Wizard is at the Mage-Mart, shopping for bargain scrolls; the Cleric is in the Pray-Atorium, doing his thing; the Fighter is at the Sword-Ateria, browsing the BFSes. Monk doesn't use spells or weapons, he's not in the mood for prayer, and he's feeling a bit left out. DM reminds him that he has a friend in the Capital, he visits him, maybe the DM takes that opportunity to let the Monk practice with that training dummy that increases your 5-foot step.

    Or maybe, in the alternative, the party is trying to get into a fancy-pants gala in the Palace. Party is doing some Gather Information and diplomancy to try to get invitations so they don't have to crash, and the Monk suddenly recalls that he has a friend in the Capital. If I were GMing and the Monk hadn't told me ahead of time about the traveling martial artist, I wouldn't let him suddenly invent one from whole cloth; because he told me, however, I'm receptive to the idea and willing to reward his creative thinking.

    In each of these cases, the GM isn't using the backstory to force the PCs to do something; he's using it to enhance their experience, to make them feel special, or to give them creative alternative options. These are all good things.

    As an aside, I have an issue with a point you made, Goto. First, you said you shouldn't be forced to provide backstory, because you don't want the GM using it. Fine. But then you said that the GM shouldn't be writing it for you (a fact with which I agree); it should be discussed in advance. But how can you discuss it in advance if you refuse to provide it?

    Basically, if the GM can't use your backstory in any way, you're a character whose only involvement in the plot is contrivance; that is, "I'm interested in doing this quest because I want to." Your character is in the game because he's a PC, not because of any personal reason or motivation. Even a paragraph of information - who he is, where he's from, and why he's adventuring - goes a long way to telling you, the GM, and the other players what your PC is doing in the game.

    I get wary of characters with no history, at my tables. I have a number of yellow and red flags for murderhoboing; they're not guarantees, but they're indicators of varying strength. When the game is a straight-up hack'n'slash, that's fine, but when it's not, I'm wary. And one of those flags is a lack of background. As a GM, if the only reason I can see that the PCs are together is that their players have decided it must be so, that's another flag. At least if the character has some depth, some reason I can see at the outset of the campaign for being involved, my mind will be more at ease.

    Communicating expectations is vital at the outset of the campaign, and it goes both ways. As a GM, my obligation to the players is to let them know, generally, the tone and genre of the campaign, and whether there are any particular expectations to have or avoid. As a player, my obligation to the GM is to let him know what I expect from the game, and what I'm bringing to the table. Taking out a character sheet and simply saying "I'm a level 1 Cleric" tells the GM absolutely nothing about my character or my expectations.
    Last edited by Red Fel; 2015-05-28 at 09:32 AM.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Basically, if the GM can't use your backstory in any way, you're a character whose only involvement in the plot is contrivance; that is, "I'm interested in doing this quest because I want to." Your character is in the game because he's a PC, not because of any personal reason or motivation. Even a paragraph of information - who he is, where he's from, and why he's adventuring - goes a long way to telling you, the GM, and the other players what your PC is doing in the game.
    If I knocked up the paragraph at the last minute and even I have no idea what the heck I'm writing?

    'The man reveals himself, and gasp! He's Master Unad!'
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    'You wrote him in your backstory!'
    'What? When and where? *checks* What the, I smashed my head against the keyboard to write that story...'

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Honestly, at that point? Talk to the DM and say "I hate backstories. I'm a good player, I promise, but I. Hate. Backstories. Don't make me write one-it won't be good, and I won't want to see it in play."
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by goto124 View Post
    If I knocked up the paragraph at the last minute and even I have no idea what the heck I'm writing?

    'The man reveals himself, and gasp! He's Master Unad!'
    'Who?'
    'Your mentor!'
    'How was I supposed to know?'
    'You wrote him in your backstory!'
    'What? When and where? *checks* What the, I smashed my head against the keyboard to write that story...'
    So... Actually put some thought into what you're writing? I don't understand how that's not a thing; if you're playing a character, you must have given the character some thought. If it honestly takes you a massive pile of effort to produce a paragraph of text, how are you producing an hour or more of RP?

    I mean, this just falls under the general rule of "never hit Send when you haven't read what you typed."

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Honestly, at that point? Talk to the DM and say "I hate backstories. I'm a good player, I promise, but I. Hate. Backstories. Don't make me write one-it won't be good, and I won't want to see it in play."
    See, this is a fair position. If a player tells me this, I'll understand that. I will ask, however, something along the lines of, "Could you at least give me a Cliffs Notes explanation of him? You know, where he's from, why he's here? No writing, just quick answers?"

    I get that some people genuinely don't like putting pen to paper (or the digital equivalent). But in my mind, if I'm going to dedicate a ton of work to building an entire world in which your characters can play, I would hope you'd be willing to dedicate a few minutes to coming up with a quick explanation of who this character is as a person. If you can't even produce that, what reason do I have to expect that you'll devote any effort to RP?

    You could be the best RPer in the world. You could improvise incredible characters, create tremendous emotional depth and motivation at the drop of a hat. But I generally don't see the future, and I don't know that in advance of the campaign. All I know of your character's complexity, if anything, is what you've told me or written down. And if you can't be bothered to create depth in advance of the game, I have no reason to assume that you're going to do so once gameplay has begun.

    That, for me, is a yellow flag. Not a red flag, but a yellow one.
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    I agree with a lot of what Red Fel has posted here. However as a GM I have solved some of this in my own games by doing to following - (explaining by using a D&D model here)

    Typical character creation has the following steps.

    Ability Scores
    Race
    Class
    Skills/Feats
    Equipment
    Put a minimal amount of thought into personality

    Ready to go

    However hidden within "Race" are cultural elements that have never been extracted. So In my campaigns I have extended this to:

    Ability Scores
    Race
    Culture
    Home Settlement - Which also give a home nationality or kingdom.
    Religion - Not required and can be skipped
    Associations - Not required and can be skipped, used to model participation in a guild or some other entity.
    Class
    Skills/Feats
    Equipment
    NPC Contacts - One line name/profession of NPCs that are derived from home settlement, religion, or guild associations. Could be a fence, shop keeper, high priest etc.

    My campaign has run for 20 years and I have many of these things pre-defined. The player only needs to go through lists of available cultures and religions to choose what they want. Some of them give bonuses, for instance all the women in the Amazon culture get a free weapon specialization with spear.

    The player only needs to provide a bit of additional personality.

    While playing the selections here don't necessarily provide fodder for railroading. However, I have large matrices that describe the relationships between various nations and cultures. A character from a Roman Culture who finds himself in the wilds of Gaul might have some additional difficulty negotiating with a Gallic inn keeper.

    The character creation process is a little longer and more in depth but the player doesn't necessarily need to give me any additional detail in background. The process of selecting culture and home settlement places the character in the setting and I know what is happening around that location.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    So I have always been disappointed with players who didn't come up with a backstory. I didn't give them too much trouble about it, but I would request they put in some effort and get a little annoyed when they refused. But then, the same players would also get mad at me later on when I "played favorites" by giving the players who did give me backstory more hooks and spotlight time as they were integrated into the world.

    I have never met a player who refuses to have any sort of backstory or refuses to let the DM flesh it out. Every game I run has the players as an integral part of the world, most with some sort of special origin or destiny. Most of the games I have played in are the same way, and I can't imagine someone who adamantly refused to let me use any sort of backstory for my character would remain welcome at my table for very long.


    However, the last year or so I have been playing rather than GMing, and I am starting to see things from the other direction.

    First, if you don't have a lot of trust in the DM they will literally make a mess of your backstory. They will kill or have other horrible things happen to your old friends, family, and acquaintances to motivate you, and when those characters show up in game they act in a manner that is totally contrary to your initial intent.

    Second, more often than not writing a backstory gets in the way of the game. If my character has responsibilities and goals that are not served by hanging out with a group of murder hobos and raiding dungeons then I need to constantly find excuses for why I am ignoring my backstory, shirking my duty, and ignoring my friends and colleagues in favor of the other PCs.


    For example, the three characters I am currently playing:

    The first is a knight who is in love with a dryad. The DM reveals to me (through a literal divine revelation) that all fey in the campaign world are actually soulless abominations created by the powers of the far realm and given fair form to infiltrate and corrupt the mortal world, and by siding with them rather than the gods I am going to suffer eternal torment as my soul is consumed when I die. When my character refuses to change my whole motivation and life around as a result the DM gets mad at me.

    The second is a centaur shepherdess and tracker. I am hired by the local constable to track down a gang of raiders. I do so, and I find that they are hiding in a tunnel complex similar to those used by the viet cong. Now, I am not a warrior, and I am a centaur, and I was hired to track them down. So I mark the location of the tunnel entrances and take them back to the constable. I am then berated by the DM for "ignoring his adventure" because apparently I was supposed to crawl into the tunnels after them and kill them all (which in my mind shouldn't even be physically possible for a centaur).

    The third character is in an cWoD Mage game. My character is a medical student who has a job, a family, friends, and a relationship, and don't agree with the PCs on moral issues. Yet I am constantly having to come up with rationales to put my life on hold and go off on long adventures with them where I have no IC motivation to do so.

    All three of these games would be so goddamn much easier if I was simply playing "murder hobo treasure hunter with no past".
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Honestly even if I put effort into backstory I don't want to see it in play. A lot of the problem I have with backstory is people who demand it generally have different expectations about what the backstory is going to be. I like a character whose backstory is simple, clean, and gives me a solid starting point for character development. It's a thought experiment in how my character interacts with the world, and bringing figures from it back into the story is irritating because that was never their purpose. Saying "Your mentor shows up." is pointless because as a player I never cared about this character's mentor. If I mentioned them at all it was as an excuse to shape who this character was when we began, not because I ever wanted to see them again. I just don't enjoy that kind of melodrama.

    On top of that I find it's difficult to handle. How do you introduce this character to the group as a whole in a compelling way? Why is this person's sudden unexpected arrival better or more useful than a new NPC? What about one player standing around going "Ah yes my old friend I remember all those adventures we went on except we didn't, they're a thing I made up" has anything to do with interesting tabletop play? As a player I have seen exactly one DM who successfully integrated someone from a character's history into a campaign and as a DM I have had exactly one player (They're actually the same person).
    Last edited by Flashy; 2015-05-28 at 01:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    First, if you don't have a lot of trust in the DM they will literally make a mess of your backstory. They will kill or have other horrible things happen to your old friends, family, and acquaintances to motivate you, and when those characters show up in game they act in a manner that is totally contrary to your initial intent.

    Second, more often than not writing a backstory gets in the way of the game. If my character has responsibilities and goals that are not served by hanging out with a group of murder hobos and raiding dungeons then I need to constantly find excuses for why I am ignoring my backstory, shirking my duty, and ignoring my friends and colleagues in favor of the other PCs.
    These are two very fair points. With respect to the first, as I've mentioned, a great GM will do things with your backstory that don't involve using it as emotional blackmail, but still make you feel special and important. It's rather poor taste to take the backstory and turn it into George R. R. Martin's latest massacre. It's worth noting, however, that you don't really get to "intend" how any characters act aside from your own; by creating NPCs in your backstory, you are allowing your character to be more connected to the game world, but you are also allowing the GM to take these characters in whatever direction he sees fit. That's how NPCs work.

    With respect to the second, that's less an issue with the GM, and more an issue with poor planning. As a rule, if you wrote a backstory that would preclude your character from being an adventurer, you probably missed the point. A certain degree of communication is necessary. If I were in a party with a necromancer, a devil-worshipper, and a serial killer (and not the heroic kind), I would not do well to play an heroic, noble, virtuous defender of the people. Similarly, if I were in a campaign that would involve traveling the continent and fighting evil, I would not do well to play a character who cannot survive more than one mile from his sacred mountain. I would go back and rewrite my backstory to allow and encourage the campaign to go on.

    For example, the three characters I am currently playing:

    The first is a knight who is in love with a dryad. The DM reveals to me (through a literal divine revelation) that all fey in the campaign world are actually soulless abominations created by the powers of the far realm and given fair form to infiltrate and corrupt the mortal world, and by siding with them rather than the gods I am going to suffer eternal torment as my soul is consumed when I die. When my character refuses to change my whole motivation and life around as a result the DM gets mad at me.
    Yeah. This is an example of a jerk move by the GM. If the GM planned for fey to be evil all along, he should have advised you against including one in your backstory; if he didn't plan it from the beginning, this was a targeted attack on your character, and was a jerk move. Again, that's a problem with the GM, not with writing or using a backstory.

    The second is a centaur shepherdess and tracker. I am hired by the local constable to track down a gang of raiders. I do so, and I find that they are hiding in a tunnel complex similar to those used by the viet cong. Now, I am not a warrior, and I am a centaur, and I was hired to track them down. So I mark the location of the tunnel entrances and take them back to the constable. I am then berated by the DM for "ignoring his adventure" because apparently I was supposed to crawl into the tunnels after them and kill them all (which in my mind shouldn't even be physically possible for a centaur).
    Also a jerk move by the GM. Players are under no obligation to pick up on every plot hook dropped in their laps, and GMs have no right to berate the players for doing so. That's just an unpleasant person.

    The third character is in an cWoD Mage game. My character is a medical student who has a job, a family, friends, and a relationship, and don't agree with the PCs on moral issues. Yet I am constantly having to come up with rationales to put my life on hold and go off on long adventures with them where I have no IC motivation to do so.
    This, however, is all you. You wrote a character who has too much of a life to leave, in a game where he would be expected to do precisely that. That's not a problem with the concept of backstory, it's a problem with writing a backstory that directly conflicts with the goals of the game.

    All three of these games would be so goddamn much easier if I was simply playing "murder hobo treasure hunter with no past".
    Which is a fine choice. I enjoy the occasional no-consequence slaughterfest. But, to bastardize someone else's quote, not every game needs to be a cheeseburger, no matter how simple and satisfying it may be; sometimes you want a high-quality piece of steak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    Honestly even if I put effort into backstory I don't want to see it in play. A lot of the problem I have with backstory is people who demand it generally have different expectations about what the backstory is going to be. I like a character whose backstory is simple, clean, and gives me a solid starting point for character development. It's a thought experiment in how my character interacts with the world, and bringing figures from it back into the story is irritating because that was never their purpose. Saying "Your mentor shows up." is pointless because as a player I never cared about this character's mentor. If I mentioned them at all it was as an excuse to shape who this character was when we began, not because I ever wanted to see them again. I just don't enjoy that kind of melodrama.
    Why include something in your backstory if you don't intend it to see any use? When I write a backstory, everything I use has a function. Rivals, friends, places, things, people. I try to distill them down to a bullet-point list, if I can, for ease of reference. Why would you include a character you never cared about? If the character was important to your PC, your PC should care about them, and by extension so should you.

    On top of that I find it's difficult to handle. How do you introduce this character to the group as a whole in a compelling way? Why is this person's sudden unexpected arrival better or more useful than a new NPC? What about one player standing around going "Ah yes my old friend I remember all those adventures we went on except we didn't, they're a thing I made up" has anything to do with interesting tabletop play? As a player I have seen exactly one DM who successfully integrated someone from a character's history into a campaign and as a DM I have had exactly one player (They're actually the same person).
    The idea, if done well, is to make the PC in question suddenly important. To give him a moment in the spotlight. Look, you can bring in a random NPC to do whatever needs to be done, and it might or might not help, and it might or might not feel contrived. But if you bring in this NPC, who has a relationship with this PC, you create an opportunity for this PC to momentarily become a focus of events; a chance for this PC to be pivotal to the story in a way that no other character could be. That's a thrilling experience, when done well.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    One thing I have noticed when GMing is that the people who won't provide any pre-game personality or backstory are generally the ones who don't read the setting/world stuff that I've written for them.

    Which gets really inconvenient when I tell them that their path goes through Baron McEvilName's territory, or that the person they want is in the House of Yellow Flowers. Those people just go on their way with no concept that the baron has wyvern cavalry and demands taxes paid in magic items or that the House of Yellow Flowers is the lair of a lich and the front door is famous for killing anyone who touches it, no save. It's not a problem if I've set up the adventure as a kill-them-all bloodfest where the PCs are never outmatched. But in a world where PCs aren't automatically the biggest fish in the pond it can cause issues.

    It's been the same pattern for decades, the players with a stat block and no personality or history are normally the ones who didn't read the important setting info. I don't require backstory, but these days I just assume that those PCs are homeless thugs who have no reason to care about anything but amassing personal killing power and wealth.

    Once in a great while I'm pleasntly surprised and get someone without backstory who can interact with the campaign in a more meaningful way than a kill-loot cycle.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Why include something in your backstory if you don't intend it to see any use? When I write a backstory, everything I use has a function. Rivals, friends, places, things, people. I try to distill them down to a bullet-point list, if I can, for ease of reference. Why would you include a character you never cared about? If the character was important to your PC, your PC should care about them, and by extension so should you.
    The backstory isn't about use, it's about defining who my character is. It's about figuring out who they are and why they're on an adventure, and how that adventure is going to change them. I don't care about aspects of my character's past because that's firmly not what the story is about to me. Having someone from the past suddenly drop in isn't interesting because they're usually nothing to do with the character's (and more importantly the party's) ongoing journey. It often just leads to pointless melodrama about things that didn't happen for anyone but the player who wrote the backstory.

    I do agree that it can be done well, but it's the difference between having someone from a character's backstory suddenly show up because hey they're a wizard and that's what the DM needs and someone showing up because hey they're a leading expert on conjuration magic, that's what the party needs, and so the group as a whole decided to use their connection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    The idea, if done well, is to make the PC in question suddenly important. To give him a moment in the spotlight. Look, you can bring in a random NPC to do whatever needs to be done, and it might or might not help, and it might or might not feel contrived. But if you bring in this NPC, who has a relationship with this PC, you create an opportunity for this PC to momentarily become a focus of events; a chance for this PC to be pivotal to the story in a way that no other character could be. That's a thrilling experience, when done well.
    But you don't have any relationship with that NPC. Not really. You've never spoken to them, or interacted with them, they're just an aspect of your character. They don't exist in a meaningful way until they become a part of the story, because the whole point of the game IS the ongoing story. It doesn't make me feel special to have something from my past arbitrarily dredged up because it feels the same as the DM knowing my character is good at climbing, and so throwing in a bunch of situations where that's important. It feels like pandering.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    One thing I have noticed when GMing is that the people who won't provide any pre-game personality or backstory are generally the ones who don't read the setting/world stuff that I've written for them.

    Which gets really inconvenient when I tell them that their path goes through Baron McEvilName's territory, or that the person they want is in the House of Yellow Flowers. Those people just go on their way with no concept that the baron has wyvern cavalry and demands taxes paid in magic items or that the House of Yellow Flowers is the lair of a lich and the front door is famous for killing anyone who touches it, no save. It's not a problem if I've set up the adventure as a kill-them-all bloodfest where the PCs are never outmatched. But in a world where PCs aren't automatically the biggest fish in the pond it can cause issues.

    It's been the same pattern for decades, the players with a stat block and no personality or history are normally the ones who didn't read the important setting info. I don't require backstory, but these days I just assume that those PCs are homeless thugs who have no reason to care about anything but amassing personal killing power and wealth.

    Once in a great while I'm pleasntly surprised and get someone without backstory who can interact with the campaign in a more meaningful way than a kill-loot cycle.
    God I hate that.

    A couple of years ago I had a situation where a player was going up against the strongest conjurer in the world, tried to escape using a teleportation spell, and then the enemy countered their spell and their character died.

    The player threw a giant fit about how he shouldn't be punished for not caring about my stupid setting and not knowing what the villain is famous for before attacking him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    It's worth noting, however, that you don't really get to "intend" how any characters act aside from your own; by creating NPCs in your backstory, you are allowing your character to be more connected to the game world, but you are also allowing the GM to take these characters in whatever direction he sees fit. That's how NPCs work.


    This, however, is all you. You wrote a character who has too much of a life to leave, in a game where he would be expected to do precisely that. That's not a problem with the concept of backstory, it's a problem with writing a backstory that directly conflicts with the goals of the game.
    If you don't get to decide who the people in your backstory are then you really don't have a backstory. If I have a wife / girlfriend / lover it is because they are a person my character would find attractive. If I respect a mentor it is because they are worthy of my respect. If I have a friend it is because I like hanging around with them. If I am a paladin because I was raised by a noble person who always did the right thing and was inspired by her than she better be kind and noble and always do the right thing.

    If the DM just throws all these things out then you really are better off not having a backstory at all because whatever you do have is now a lie.



    I am not really looking to lay blame on anyone for how my Mage game goes because it is going great, I was just commenting that it would be much easier if I didn't have a backstory.

    For example, half the group has jobs, the other half just shrug when asked where their character gets money. The first half definitely has "more backstory" here, but with that backstory comes a lot more work as they need to come up with excuses as to why they can take so much time off to go on wild adventures. The more backstory you have, the more ties and responsibilities you have, that's just how the world works. I don't see it as a bad thing, just a thing.

    Now, if the GM had actually laid out what the campaign was about beforehand and someone made a backstory that precluded that, it could be an issue, but that is not what is happening in any of my examples.
    Last edited by Talakeal; 2015-05-28 at 02:42 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    I personally like the way Fate does background creation - at the table, collaborative, as a part of character creation.

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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by kyoryu View Post
    I personally like the way Fate does background creation - at the table, collaborative, as a part of character creation.
    Does Fate make people create other people's backstories?

    I played Spirit of the Century once and we did something like this, but we all took turns generating portions of one another's backstories and it pretty much killed the game for me; I didn't like other people dictating parts of my character to me and I felt extremely uncomfortable doing it for anyone else.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    The standard fate character generation is a collaborative process, but it doesn't include other people dictating your aspects. By default, each person gets a chance to describe some interactions with some of the other characters in a previous, shared encounter, and to pull an aspect for their character from that, not to impose one on somebody else.

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    Default Re: Backstory Requirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Eisenheim View Post
    The standard fate character generation is a collaborative process, but it doesn't include other people dictating your aspects. By default, each person gets a chance to describe some interactions with some of the other characters in a previous, shared encounter, and to pull an aspect for their character from that, not to impose one on somebody else.
    It was something like that. Basically we each go to "guest star" in one of each of the other character's previous adventures and we had 100% narrative control over everything that happened in that adventure including what the character whose backstory it was did during it.
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