[Dreamscarred Press] Path of War: Expanded! (Discussion Thread V)

[ErrantX]

The Path of War continues onward!

Within the pages of this tome, your options for martial characters more than double! Within Path of War Expanded you will find more maneuvers, stances, and feats for your existing martial disciples as well as a host of new options! There are new classes, archetypes, martial traditions, and even the new class template that provides a way to use a single archetype for different character classes.

Within Path of War Expanded, you will find:

• Three new base classes, from the ill-omened harbinger, to the psychic zealot, and finally the arcane mystic who all mix supernatural elements into their martial combat styles.
• Nine new martial disciplines
• A host of archetypes for the three classes from Path of War and the three new classes
• Martial archetypes for core classes
• Class templates, which provides archetypes that work across multiple classes
• Martial style feats
• More martial traditions

And new and optional rules and clarifications to martial combat that will take your martial characters to a whole new level!
Come and enjoy the spoils of battle with Path of War Expanded!

Table of Contents for the project:

- The Harbinger, a melee control class that uses superior mobility and crippling status effects to command the battlefield. These warriors understand grief and anger on a personal level and translate that understanding into deadly curses and reality-warping swordplay. Harbinger also has two archetypes available in beta. The Crimson Countess emphasizes the Claim mechanic to take her rage out on her victims, while the Ravenlord creates a shadowy servant that aids him in battle. A new archetype, the Bleak Emissary, is available for beta testing. The Omen Rider archetype, a mounted warrior archetype, is available for beta testing. Harbinger introduces two new disciplines: Cursed Razor and Shattered Mirror

- The Zealot, a psionic guardian who leads his party into battle with the power of his passions and their own collective bond. These psionic initiators augment their maneuvers with power points and aid their party members with telepathy. Zealot introduces the Eternal Guardian and Sleeping Goddess disciplines. Zealot archetypes may be found here.

- The Mystic, a melee support class that uses unstable arcane energies to unleash beneficial magic on his allies and scourge his enemies with the power of the elements. Mystics are founts of energy that they vent through martial discipline and intuition rather than through spells. Mystic will introduce the Elemental Flux and Riven Hourglass disciplines. Mystic archetypes are found at the bottom of the document.

But wait, there's more!

- Dreamscarred Press is happy to announce Class Templates, archetypes that can be applied to more than one class. Class Templates represent ideas too broad for a single-class archetype, letting you create very different versions of the same somewhat broad idea. The three introduced in Path of War Expanded are the Bushi, Privateer, and Hussar, for all of your samurai, pirate, and mounted warrior needs. At the end of the document you'll find the Mithral Current discipline as well.

Discipline List! (in no particular order)

- The Eternal Guardian discipline

- The Sleeping Goddess discipline

- The Cursed Razor discipline

- The Shattered Mirror discipline

- The Mithral Current discipline

- The Riven Hourglass discipline, available for open beta.

- The Elemental Flux discipline is available for open beta.

- Piercing Thunder is available for open beta.

- Tempest Gale, a new ranged discipline, is now in beta!

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Prestige Classes!
Animus Adept - Here! Have some glyphs!
Phoenix Champion - Silver Crane fun with bows!
The Landsknect - Einhander defender!

Other Stuff!

Path of War Expanded - Systems and Use Expanded - Favored class bonuses, new options for old classes, and more!


Path of War: Expanded Archetypes Document

All the Feats for Path of War: Expanded!

Martial Tradition

- On the agenda: Favored class and racial abilities, traits, more feats, prestige classes, monster stuff, and more!

Dreamscarred Press - FAQ! Check out the answers here!

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Thread1, Thread2, Thread3, Thread4, Thread5

It's been an amazing ride so far, and the support from the community for this project has been overwhelming and very touching. We couldn't have gotten this far without you guys, and I hope the Path of War line can continue to be an addition to your tables. With that said, I declare this thread to be officially open!

[squiggit]

It's kind of amazing how fast these threads get chewed through.

[Xerlith]

It's kind of amazing how fast these threads get chewed through.

Trampling through the Path of War.

[Extra Anchovies]

It's kind of amazing how fast these threads get chewed through.

Indeed.

I'm going to second Xerlith's suggestion from the previous thread that most of the hybrid-discipline feats could just be community homebrew.

[Lord_Gareth]

Trampling through the Path of War.

I laughed harder than I should have.

[PsyBomb]

A few more hybridization feats would be cool, but not anywhere near a priority. I like them as the inspiration strikes, since they support certain major character tropes (wishing the word Archetypes didn't have specific meaning in PF context).

... and this may or may not have been a post dedicated mostly to subscribing to this thread...

[Dusk Eclipse]

Wait... now we have to post something on-topic to subscribe? Er.... give me a minute while I think about it.

[Ilorin Lorati]

The thread tools button at the top of the thread has a subscribe option, there's no need to reply just to do so.

[Dusk Eclipse]

>_> It was a (bad) joke. <_<

[Ilorin Lorati]

My comment was directed at PsyBomb.

[Togath]

Looking at mystic archetypes...
Is it odd of me to ponder the idea of a Knight Chandler using Rubato mechanics for maneuver recovery?

Reposting. The archetype seems set up for the mechanic(or Rubato's mechanics came from it). And it would help address people who dislike the randomness of basic Mystic.

[Callin]

Cant wait to see this thread play out.

[squiggit]

couple random thoughts from the old thread I never saw addressed:

-Privateer should be able to use Pistols with thrashing dragon if they're in melee range (or something). Archetype gets support for sword + pistol but the style doesn't get supported by any of PoW's native TWF options (except the thrashing dragon style line, so grab scarlet throne from somewhere and stat dragon pouncing people)...not really an issue, just a thought I guess. But some sort of ability like "The Privateer can treat ranged attacks with a firearm made within 5' as melee attacks for the purpose of thrashing dragon maneuvers".

Don't think that breaks anything.

-Bushi still technically can't make AoOs since even though they threaten with a sheathed weapon they don't have the clause about drawing with an AoO that Mithral Current Style does

-Speaking of Thrashing Dragon Style/Pounce/Whirlwind. They don't function with double weapons right now since you don't actually have an offhand, you just get to pretend you do. Not sure if intended or not.

Will probably think up more later.

[Mehangel]

-Privateer should be able to use Pistols with thrashing dragon if they're in melee range (or something). Archetype gets support for sword + pistol but the style doesn't get supported by any of PoW's native TWF options (except the thrashing dragon style line, so grab scarlet throne from somewhere and stat dragon pouncing people)...not really an issue, just a thought I guess. But some sort of ability like "The Privateer can treat ranged attacks with a firearm made within 5' as melee attacks for the purpose of thrashing dragon maneuvers".

+1 on this..

[Nihilarian]

Maaaaaaybe it's just me, but the biggest draw of a PoW book, to me, is the Discplines/classes/maneuvers themselves.

While I won't say no to items in the book, if page space is an issue; why not a book of items into themselves? Secrets of the Blacksmith or what have you -- A book that can focus soley on items, item creation, and supporting rules/feats.

A DSP Magic Item Compendium, a one stop shop for your psychic, akashic, and initiator needs.

I'd be cool with this, but I'd also be worried that initiators other than the mystic would get the short end of the stick.

[Lord_Gareth]

Reposting. The archetype seems set up for the mechanic(or Rubato's mechanics came from it). And it would help address people who dislike the randomness of basic Mystic.

There weren't any conscious parallels to Chandler when I wrote Rubato; indeed, the parallels I was drawing were to base Mystic, since Tempo is in a lot of ways the Rubato's Animus.

[ghanjrho]

So, question inspired by the Akasha thread:
Will Unquiet Grave and the Sussatore be republished in PoW:E?
And if so, will we get Unquiet Grave style feats?

[Dusk Eclipse]

AFAIK unquiet grave and Sussatore will be published in LotN.

[Fenryr]

ErrantX: Yo, I got an answer from Anthony on the Reddit thread. It's about Warder's Deathless defenses. It allows the Warder to remain conscious. I wonder, why not make it the Warder to maintain 1 HP like ol' Crusader?

Elric: Anything about the Bushi changes?

[AGrinningCat]

I'd be cool with this, but I'd also be worried that initiators other than the mystic would get the short end of the stick.

Explain? I'm not following.

[Extra Anchovies]

Explain? I'm not following.

Mystics are the only initiator that can craft magic items without spending a feat on Master Craftsman.

[AGrinningCat]

Mystics are the only initiator that can craft magic items without spending a feat on Master Craftsman.

Anyone can use items though. Mystic can craft them cheaper, sure, but if we get 'Profane Weapon' or 'Sacred Weapon' as a weapon enchantment, it doesn't short end anyone. If it's an all in one (Psychic, Akasha), it's also a good cross pollination for other DSP books.

Secrets of the Blacksmith was just a name -- it doesn't need to only focus on item crafters. 'DSPs Item Compendium Kiosk' would be a fine name too and great for abbreviations.

If you worry about item crafters, why not a not!weapon of legacy as a feat? Everyone has feats, it's a concept tied to the character, and being able to upgrade one weapon on the cheap would be great for initiators.

[MilleniaAntares]

For the knight-chandler, how does its illumination interact with darkness-creating spells?

[AGrinningCat]

couple random thoughts from the old thread I never saw addressed:

-Privateer should be able to use Pistols with thrashing dragon if they're in melee range (or something). Archetype gets support for sword + pistol but the style doesn't get supported by any of PoW's native TWF options (except the thrashing dragon style line, so grab scarlet throne from somewhere and stat dragon pouncing people)...not really an issue, just a thought I guess. But some sort of ability like "The Privateer can treat ranged attacks with a firearm made within 5' as melee attacks for the purpose of thrashing dragon maneuvers".

Why doesn't Privateer have it's own discipline?

Hussar has (had) Piercing Thunder
Bushi has Mithral Current
Privateer has nothing.

[Nihilarian]

Why doesn't Privateer have it's own discipline?

Hussar has (had) Piercing Thunder
Bushi has Mithral Current
Privateer has nothing.

Privateer has Tempest Gale.

[AGrinningCat]

Yeah, forgot about that since it was late to the party. Doesn't feel fitting for the theme though, but that's probably just me.

[Nihilarian]

Yeah, forgot about that since it was late to the party. Doesn't feel fitting for the theme though, but that's probably just me.

It's a ranged discipline all about playing dirty. Seems pretty appropriate for a pirate to me.

[Vhaidara]

Also, the name sounds very much like something a pirate would use. Hell, I have plans for using a Desperado Warlord//Privateer Stalker for a GMPC, and Gale is an awesome part of that.

[Rasma]

So never got a good responce to this in the last thread figured I would bring it up again with more math!
Bushi Warlord level 6
Katana expertise
Power Attack
STR 21 (+5)
Wisdom 16(+3)
Weapon Large Katana +1
Base damage 2d8+7(str)+1(EB)= 10-24 AB 6(BAB)+5(STR)+1(EB)-2(oversized weapon)=10
Power attack 2d8+7(str)+1(EB)+6(PA)=16-30 AB 6(BAB)+5(STR)+1(EB)-2(PA)-2(oversized weapon)=8
Stance
Primal Warrior stance
Base damage 4d8+7(str)+1(EB)= 12-40
Power attack 4d8+7(str)+1(EB)+6(PA)=18-46
Strike
Rising Zenith strike
3(Class skill)+6(level)+1(EB)+3(Stat)=13 (Better than ab easy to achieve You can also get it higher but this was unnecessary for this theory craft)
Base damage (4d8+7(str)+1(EB))*2= 24-80 (average 52)
Power attack (4d8+7(str)+1(EB)+6(PA))*2= 36-92 (average 64)
Start of turn move to enemy Rising Zenith Strike, Use boost of choice doubling damage`
(Due to wording of Rising Zenith strike the penalties from Power attack and oversized weapon do not apply)
End Turn
Next turn
Free action draw sheath draw, Rising Zenith, victorious gambit (Recover at least one maneuver even if failed recover boost of choice)
Next turn
Free action draw sheath draw, Rising Zenith, boost of choice, (11 to hit instead of 13 if victorious fails)
This is basically an infinite loop until you win or you die with boosts to do support since you can use the same one every other round for what you need)
So 36-92 damage every turn (64 average) at level 6

Same everything for a non bushi warlord
it would be identical except rising zenith can only be used every other turn and you can not recover a boost every other turn in addition to it, as well as, every rising zenith strike, aside from the first, will be at -2 with this method unless you kill something without using it.

This is why the Bushi recovery mechanic needs to be fixed, this infinite loop that other martials can not do should not be possible and shatters the balance of maneuvers by enabling spam of the most powerful one repeatedly without having to bother with recovery because it is a free action.

[ANSeranov]

1) Pretty sure you can't use Power Attack on Rising Zenith Strike
2) Spamming the same maneuver over and over in the pursuit of optimal best DPR is not fun

It's not really all that impressive and requires a very specific setup to work. Bushi's recovery is fine and, if you use it as it is intended, is not overly strong.