Fallout 4: It's Happening!

[Surrealistik]

Now what exactly is wrong with FO:T multiplayer?

Aside from the ridiculous pointcosting and silly Voodoo spam + Pancor Jackhammer meta that completely dominates it?

[Winthur]

Stop playing 10k?

[Surrealistik]

Everyone plays 10k though, and the higher you go, the sillier it gets.

I love 2k, but very few run it, and even then it's pretty centralized around a couple of weapons/builds due to the bad/arbitrary pointcosting.

[Winthur]

I love 2k, but very few run it, and even then it's pretty centralized around a couple of weapons/builds due to the bad/arbitrary pointcosting.

There'll always be some sort of a metagame involved after all, 2k expands the choices. Yay for Dog builds.

Personally I never had that much of a problem with it, but then again, I didn't venture that deep into competitive FOT (when I did, I could always find a 2k game), but then again, even the games I had with friends involved certain houserules. The most fun I had playing 10k was Android Only skirmishes with autistic Gundam fans.

And I'm not sure what's a good substitute for the point buy.

[Surrealistik]

Yeah, there'll always be a meta for sure, but the arbitrary costing limits it more than it otherwise would be. Granted, 2k is _way_ more diverse than the higher point buy levels.


Pointbuy is fine so long as cost assignment isn't predicated by throwing darts at a board and it's dynamic, with changes pending feedback/stats; unfortunately neither is the case for FoT.


The build I normally favour for 2k is Fast Shot hollowpoint loaded p90cs/pancors + stealth, toughness and medikits and maybe an incendiary nade, especially during night combats. Stealth then flank n spank at close range.

I've had some great success with Fast Shot + Steady Arm supermuties packing the SAW; not nearly as versatile, but they are some of the hardest hitting, longest ranged things at that point level and are pretty durable. They will win pretty much any head to head firefight they get into that's within the effective range of their weapon which is damn long, and can also spray and pray to sweep for stealthers.

Rocket launcher builds have also worked well and tend to result in reliable one shot kills at ridiculous ranges, even through stealth and cover, but you have to make your munitions count; best to flush out the enemy with teammates/nades, then let 'er rip from stealth/concealment; basically run these guys like snipers.

[Avilan the Grey]

As long as we get VATS and SPECIAL I´m good.

[Vizzerdrix]

I could do without V.A.T.S, but I can always just not use it. That's what I do in FO3 and NV.

[Cyber Punk]

Fallout 4 finally out? I'm happy beyond words.

Yes, I'm kinda sad that Obsidian might not be doing another Fallout, as I preferred NV, but I got my fix with Wasteland 2, which I enjoy replaying. I hope they bring back VATS. I'm good at FPSes, but I just loved VATS, I hope there's the option to turn it off for those that hate it, and the option to keep it permanently on for people like me.

[Morty]

VATS never really had any place in the first-person person perspective of Fallout 3 and NV. I think it's mostly there because that's what people expect from Fallout. I think they'd be better off scrapping it and figuring out how to make weapon skills have more impact on fighting without it.

[Rodin]

I hope that Bethesda looks carefully at New Vegas, and realizes why it was overall a better game. Bigger isn't better when that bigger is empty. It's about exploring the Wasteland, no miles upon miles of subway tunnels. Introducing Super Mutants at level 3 is a dumb idea. And so on.

At the same time, they should learn from Obsidian's mistakes, too. Deathclawland felt incredibly artificial and forced, and it was quite probable that you wouldn't be able to get through those areas at all even at high level. Make areas that you aren't supposed to go into in the early game by all means, but don't make them instant death areas for no good reason. Also, making one of the most common enemies in the game grant massive amounts of Karma is a baaaaad idea.

[Ailurus]

VATS never really had any place in the first-person person perspective of Fallout 3 and NV. I think it's mostly there because that's what people expect from Fallout. I think they'd be better off scrapping it and figuring out how to make weapon skills have more impact on fighting without it.

VATS had a huge place in the game. Even ignoring the flavor/historical reasons for it, it immensely helped the game by letting you play the combat based on character skill rather than player skill if you so chose. If you wanted to go pure FPS and ignore VATS entirely you can easily do so. If you want to go full VATS and never bother with FPS shots, there were perks that let you do that as well. Or if you wanted to mix and match you could do that as well. The central point beyond VATS was that no matter what your reaction time or personal accuracy you could still very effectively play the game (as compared to Skyrim where its all your personal skill [though admittedly the skill ceiling is low] and nearly all the skills and perks do in combat is "weapon does more damage").

Now, overhaul/improve/fix/etc. VATS? Sure. I freely admit there were a few problems with it - the damage reduction being frankly overpowered in the FO3 implementation, cases where the enemy would move behind a table or something and you'd pump a full clip of ammo into a solid object with no effect, and the fact that 99% of the time there was no reason to target anything except the head or a live explosive all come readily to mind. But those are all things that can be fixed - the aforementioned damage reduction issue was mostly corrected in New Vegas for example. I don't see any reason to scrap an optional system that a large number of players obviously like having in the game.

[Triaxx]

I agree with Calemyr, though the best part of the fallouts is how optional it is.

@Calemyr: If you like the default crafting, I firmly suggest both Craftpack/Craftmaster/CASE(co-dependent so all essentially the same mod), and Weapon Mod Recipes. The latter lets you build most weapon mods, all the vanilla ones I believe, and has an option for WMX mods.

The 3C's on the other hand, allow you to break down most of that junk you pick up, such as those bent tin cans, into basic components, like steel and then turn them either into basic weapons, or into other things. IE: turn bent tin cans into steel, then steel into regular tin cans. (Yes, I recognize how silly that is.)

More importantly, it not only seriously increases ammo variety, but also lets you break the cases down into brass, so you're no longer stuck with millions of empties from enemies for calibers you don't use. As well as being able to make primers from brass and primer compound, so much less limited availability.

Plus you don't know the definition of fun until you've launched a Carpet missile.

[Cyber Punk]

I hope that Bethesda looks carefully at New Vegas, and realizes why it was overall a better game. Bigger isn't better when that bigger is empty. It's about exploring the Wasteland, no miles upon miles of subway tunnels. Introducing Super Mutants at level 3 is a dumb idea. And so on.

At the same time, they should learn from Obsidian's mistakes, too. Deathclawland felt incredibly artificial and forced, and it was quite probable that you wouldn't be able to get through those areas at all even at high level. Make areas that you aren't supposed to go into in the early game by all means, but don't make them instant death areas for no good reason. Also, making one of the most common enemies in the game grant massive amounts of Karma is a baaaaad idea.

I agree with this as well. Personal experience: I played Fallout 3 and loved it! Then I played Fallout 1 before playing New Vegas and loving it more. I played NV twice, but I got bored on my second playthrough of Fallout 3.

I don't agree about the Deathclaws, though. Obsidian didn't make deathclaws harder, in fact, it was Bethesda that made deathclaws easier! In Fallout 1, you could get KO'd in one hit by a Deathclaw, while in Fallout 3 you could run at a deathclaw with a scalpel and survive to tell the tale. Personally, I preferred NV's deathclaws. They were hard, but they felt dangerous and well-deserving of its name.

Also, I never really had to go through Quarry Junction. What I liked about NV was that you didn't have to go through the deadly places. Not most times, at least; there was always a longer-but-safer route to your destination.

As for them being common, I always invest in a Sniper Rifle and/or get Boone/ED-E.

The thing I didn't like was that before the Gun Runners' Arsenal DLC, the only way to get a Fatman was to invade Deathclaw-land.

[DigoDragon]

VATS never really had any place in the first-person person perspective of Fallout 3 and NV. I think it's mostly there because that's what people expect from Fallout. I think they'd be better off scrapping it and figuring out how to make weapon skills have more impact on fighting without it.

I love VATS in Fallout 3. I'm not great at FPS games, so it's nice to have something like VATS to help with aiming and the pause feature is nice if I need a moment to think. Or use the bathroom. XD

[Antonok]

This is interesting.

Bethesda seems to have done their homework. Also seems people have already figured out where the bomb exploded and where vault 111 is.

[Winthur]

I agree with this as well. Personal experience: I played Fallout 3 and loved it! Then I played Fallout 1 before playing New Vegas and loving it more. I played NV twice, but I got bored on my second playthrough of Fallout 3.

I don't agree about the Deathclaws, though. Obsidian didn't make deathclaws harder, in fact, it was Bethesda that made deathclaws easier! In Fallout 1, you could get KO'd in one hit by a Deathclaw, while in Fallout 3 you could run at a deathclaw with a scalpel and survive to tell the tale. Personally, I preferred NV's deathclaws. They were hard, but they felt dangerous and well-deserving of its name.

Also, I never really had to go through Quarry Junction. What I liked about NV was that you didn't have to go through the deadly places. Not most times, at least; there was always a longer-but-safer route to your destination.

Daily reminder that going from Goodsprings to New Vegas nearly immediately isn't at all hard with judicious use of the humble Stealth Boy.

[Triaxx]

It's easier to cut through the Cazadores. Single shotgun, and VATS the wings. Just requires patience to wait close enough for a guaranteed hit, and the talent to pull one at a time.

[Rodin]

It's easier to cut through the Cazadores. Single shotgun, and VATS the wings. Just requires patience to wait close enough for a guaranteed hit, and the talent to pull one at a time.

Right. The Cazadores were an example of what I'm talking about done right. A careful player could get through them no problem. Black Mountain was another - you could ninja your way up there carefully if you were good enough.

However, there are still fairly large swatches in the middle of the map that are absolutely teeming with Deathclaws, and there aren't even any quests that GO to those areas. They're just there as a "we don't want you in this area. Ever." sign, and it really sticks out. They wanted to control your path through the game, forcing you to do the loop, but then didn't take that opportunity to build those areas into proper high-level content.

Plus, call me old-fashioned, but I liked the Fallout 1 status where Deathclaws were a rare and feared creature, not something that was swarming all over the place.

[GloatingSwine]

I quite like the fact that New Vegas has the guts to have large chunks of empty map.

It actually adds to the sense that the world is an actual place and things in that place are determined by the logic of it, not a videogame setting where things are just crammed in so that the player always has something new to explore no matter where they go and where they walk to.

[DigoDragon]

This is interesting.
Bethesda seems to have done their homework. Also seems people have already figured out where the bomb exploded and where vault 111 is.

They didn't do a bad job with the DC area either.

Not referring to the link up there, but wow, I dunno how folks can put together 6-8 minute analysis videos of the trailer. Which is just 3 minutes. :3

[cavalieredraghi]

you can have a world feel empty while also having it loaded with wrecked buildings and other things.

[Mando Knight]

They didn't do a bad job with the DC area either.

Not referring to the link up there, but wow, I dunno how folks can put together 6-8 minute analysis videos of the trailer. Which is just 3 minutes. :3

That's only an average of 2-3 minutes per minute shown, which isn't all that crazy.

[Triaxx]

There's actually one big quest that does go to Sloan. Convincing the Khan's to turn on the Legion sends you to Melissa, sitting up top of the quarry, which is accessible only through the Deathclaws. Then to Sloan, which leads to the wiping out the Claws quest,

In F1/F2, they were only dangerous until you learned the secret. Cripple the left arm and they became completley helpless.

[DigoDragon]

That's only an average of 2-3 minutes per minute shown, which isn't all that crazy.

Crazy to me, as I can't think of much to say other than "This is nice, I'd like to know more!"

[Kalmageddon]

There's actually one big quest that does go to Sloan. Convincing the Khan's to turn on the Legion sends you to Melissa, sitting up top of the quarry, which is accessible only through the Deathclaws. Then to Sloan, which leads to the wiping out the Claws quest,

In F1/F2, they were only dangerous until you learned the secret. Cripple the left arm and they became completley helpless.

And actually, even in NV, you just need to cripple one of their legs and you can just kite them from there.
Now, facing a Deathclaw in melee, that's fun! I especially love the fact that, since their attacks completely ignore armor and DR in general, you can go full on berserker mode and go fight them naked and armed only with tribal weapons. And if you manage to survive, now you have a tale to tell!

[Hexalan]

Daily reminder that going from Goodsprings to New Vegas nearly immediately isn't at all hard with judicious use of the humble Stealth Boy.

Heh, the very first time I played New Vegas, I shimmied across the cliff face (I'm sure we all know how to break the physics engine) all the way to Vegas, and let Boone get knocked unconscious repeatedly to distract all the Deathclaws.

[Eldan]

Yeah, it's possible without a stealth boy. You just need a few sprints and some rockhopping.

[LibraryOgre]

In F1/F2, they were only dangerous until you learned the secret. Cripple the left arm and they became completley helpless.

...huh. Didn't know that. I always shot them in the eyes with something high caliber.

[Tyndmyr]

VATS never really had any place in the first-person person perspective of Fallout 3 and NV. I think it's mostly there because that's what people expect from Fallout. I think they'd be better off scrapping it and figuring out how to make weapon skills have more impact on fighting without it.

I love VATS. It's part of what makes Fallout unique. I love the environment, the slow motion shots, the ability to take on ludicrous fights, the crazy char builds...you don't get that same mashup elsewhere.

I hope that Bethesda looks carefully at New Vegas, and realizes why it was overall a better game. Bigger isn't better when that bigger is empty. It's about exploring the Wasteland, no miles upon miles of subway tunnels. Introducing Super Mutants at level 3 is a dumb idea. And so on.

I prefer 3, actually. I like the denser layout, and the resulting ability to just wander off in a direction and find cool stuff and subplots to do basically constantly. I'm *still* not sure I've actually done everything in 3.

[BladeofObliviom]

...huh. Didn't know that. I always shot them in the eyes with something high caliber.

Yep, that's pretty much me too. And then I ground the ones in the Boneyard for a while because that single encounter gives you as much XP on its own as a low-level quest and they respawn impossibly fast, cheaply powerleveling myself up a bit.