afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VI

[JoeyTheNeko]

Yeah not doing this right now, especially if you want a good answer.

understood. I'll wait til you have a better mood/time available for a good answer.

so are there any known gods who have divine rank twenty, and what portfolios/alignments they are? it would be interesting to know what kinds of gods have reached the pinnacle of divine power, and what they represent in what way that allowed them to do so.

would an overgod have a portofolio, like, does being an overgod give the portfolio of divine balance? is divine balance a possible portfolio?

[GilesTheCleric]

Q: #? I'm finishing up the research+categorization stage of my domain handbook, and need to make certain I'm dividing things up correctly. So, would it be correct to say that Planescape encompasses all of the other settings, such that any given deity found in a setting is also available in Planescape? And, would the deities include those such as from our own history, like the mesopotamian or aztec pantheons?

Edit: I have these settings listed so far:

Arcanis
Red Steel
Hollow World
Mystara
Lost World
Dragonlance
Greyhawk
Eberron
Forgotten Realms

Are there any settings I'm missing? Those are all of the ones I that believe have first-party or dragon support in 3.5. Also, are those all actually settings?

[WalkingTheShade]

Q: #? I'm finishing up the research+categorization stage of my domain handbook, and need to make certain I'm dividing things up correctly. So, would it be correct to say that Planescape encompasses all of the other settings, such that any given deity found in a setting is also available in Planescape? And, would the deities include those such as from our own history, like the mesopotamian or aztec pantheons?

Short answer: yes.

You could start by reading the original post of this thread.
When created, Planescape (as Spelljamer) was meant to encompass all of the other settings. The cosmologies of some settings, like Mystara, were harder to make compatible at the time.
During 3.X, settings that used to be compatible (like Forgotten Realms) were delibarately made incompatible. Others, like Eberron, weren't written with Planescape in mind, but provided another cosmology altogether.

In the context of this thread, Planescape still encompasses every cosmology. You should search previous iterations of this thread, as some efforts were already made to rationalize this regarding settings like Mystara and Eberron.

Regarding pantheons, original D&D even included deities from Moorock's Stormbringer and Lovecraft's cycle.

[afroakuma]

so are there any known gods who have divine rank twenty

Divine rank was not oft-used and it's not a great metric to employ. They were loath to stick a 20 on anybody. The only one I remember ever seeing is Taiia, the example monotheistic deity.

it would be interesting to know what kinds of gods have reached the pinnacle of divine power, and what they represent in what way that allowed them to do so.

One would think that. One would be wrong.

would an overgod have a portofolio

No.

is divine balance a possible portfolio?

No.

Q: #? I'm finishing up the research+categorization stage of my domain handbook, and need to make certain I'm dividing things up correctly. So, would it be correct to say that Planescape encompasses all of the other settings, such that any given deity found in a setting is also available in Planescape?

Yes.

And, would the deities include those such as from our own history, like the mesopotamian or aztec pantheons?

In theory, yes. Mesoamerican gods are definitely in, given that the Olman peoples of Oerth worship several of them.

Are there any settings I'm missing? Those are all of the ones I that believe have first-party or dragon support in 3.5. Also, are those all actually settings?

"Arcanis" is not an official setting last I checked, sounds third-party. Hollow World is the inside of Mystara's planet, while Red Steel takes place in one region of Mystara.

You left off Al-Qadim (same planet as Forgotten Realms), Birthright, Blackmoor (technically), Council of Wyrms, Dark Sun, the Horde (same as FR), Kara-Tur (yet again), Malatra & Maztica (ditto), Ghostwalk (keep leaving it off), Jakandor (most people don't know this one), Lankhmar (believe it or not), Mahasarpa (sub-setting for Oriental Adventures), Pelinore, Ravenloft and Rokugan (thanks Oriental Adventures 3.0!). If you're looking only for settings with official support through or at any time during 3.5, shorter list by far.

[JoeyTheNeko]

so in fiendish codex one, in the wells of darkness, there is mention of a man yaun, a ancient primordial being that is feared as a godslayer before it got subdued and imprisoned.

is there any other sources on this creature/information on it? or it that just the one? what would you speculate on it's nature, given the rarity of known beings of godslaying power?

[enderlord99]

Would "the Hinterlands beyond Excelsior" make a somewhat reasonable location to contain the divine realm of a deity who, despite he and his followers being obsessed with balance, is actually extremely Lawful Good? If not, what would?

[Alea]

ToB is a bit more contentious, as extraordinary abilities of that nature did not exist when they wrote the MotP. However, given that reality breaks down such that even poison loses its activity near the spire, I'd rule ToB to behave like everything else.

Do the Cleave, Improved Trip, or Power Attack feats stop functioning, too?

[enderlord99]

Do the Cleave, Improved Trip, or Power Attack feats stop functioning, too?

Yes, no, yes.

[afroakuma]

so in fiendish codex one, in the wells of darkness, there is mention of a man yaun, a ancient primordial being that is feared as a godslayer before it got subdued and imprisoned.

is there any other sources on this creature/information on it? or it that just the one? what would you speculate on it's nature, given the rarity of known beings of godslaying power?

Ma Yuan is a creature associated with the Chinese pantheon. While nowhere near a threat to gods of any notable strength, it has slain 10 "minor deities" - presumably weaker demigods, hero-deities and quasideities. The stone artifact it wields can take on the form and properties it chooses, typically a weapon "twice as powerful" as whatever is being directed against it at the time.

Would "the Hinterlands beyond Excelsior" make a somewhat reasonable location to contain the divine realm of a deity who, despite he and his followers being obsessed with balance, is actually extremely Lawful Good? If not, what would?

Divine realm in the Hinterlands = no. Celestia or Arcadia should fit. K'un L'un if you must.

Do the Cleave, Improved Trip, or Power Attack feats stop functioning, too?

Why do I feel this is not a question so much as the start of a line of argument?

[JoeyTheNeko]

Do the Cleave, Improved Trip, or Power Attack feats stop functioning, too?

this is just my 2 copper pieces, but I think he's saying as a DM that's how he would rule. there is no specific's in canon.

personally as a DM I would shut off all supernatural maneuvers, but those that are not still work fine. makes the most sense to me.

the long story short: his thread, his rules of how things work.

afro: how would you represent the sublime way with the modrons? you said you felt it seemed so incredibly right with them. are there any other examplars you feel would make notable use of the tome of battle rules? exemplars, not outsiders in general.
I Imagine rilmani, thanks to their base being near the spire, would have more aptitude/inclination for it then others.

[Tzardok]

Does the Spire suppress magic items too? And if yes, which circle does?

[afroakuma]

how would zariels return to power and bels death affect hells archducal politics

Given that we know next to nothing about Zariel as an individual it would be impossible to reasonably say. While she was originally aligned with Baalzebul's faction, the fact that the Lord of the Flies kept his power while she was made subject to Bel would make it unclear as to whether she'd blame him for her suffering or keep the faith against Mephistopheles.

the blood war efforts

The Dark Eight are around, they'd need a new general to take Bel's place but it's no big deal.

and the rabble of devilkind?

Why would anything happen to any of them?

afro: how would you represent the sublime way with the modrons?

I'd give maneuvers and stances to the drones. Stance of Clarity for monodrones to represent their one-track minds, Iron Guard's Glare for quadrones leading squads to have some power to direct and protect, that sort of thing. Makes them much more effective and dangerous. The hierarchs, meanwhile, don't need the help.

are there any other examplars you feel would make notable use of the tome of battle rules? exemplars, not outsiders in general.

Egh, probably a few individual types on and off but not in a general sense - not "all rilmani" or anything like that.

Does the Spire suppress magic items too? And if yes, which circle does?

Just to save time - the Spire negates everything. It's supposed to be the ideal place for anyone to meet, even the gods, as nobody can do anything untoward. Even poison stops working well before you get to the base. If you need a rule, find whichever spell is powering it and shut it off when that spell would no longer function. Or do caster level. Or something.

[atemu1234]

Who, if any, of the Archdevils are likeliest to lose their seat in the near future? Who stands to take their place? Is there anyone Asmodeus is backing?

[Eldan]

Personally, I always quite liked the idea to make desert wind versions of various eladrin.

[Tzardok]

The Grey interferes with the Astral, right? Does this impede or influence summoning and teleportation in Athas?

[JoeyTheNeko]

Who, if any, of the Archdevils are likeliest to lose their seat in the near future? Who stands to take their place? Is there anyone Asmodeus is backing?

levestis, via glasya. who does have asmodus's back. not sure who would replace him.

[Svata]

In a poor attempt at a joke, one of my players, having temporarily forgotten the existance of mephits, called Mephistopheles 'Mephit-man'. How on the planes should I have him react?

[WalkingTheShade]

In a poor attempt at a joke, one of my players, having temporarily forgotten the existance of mephits, called Mephistopheles 'Mephit-man'. How on the planes should I have him react?

What is the alignment, class and religious outlook of your player's character?

[Eldan]

In a poor attempt at a joke, one of my players, having temporarily forgotten the existance of mephits, called Mephistopheles 'Mephit-man'. How on the planes should I have him react?

Well, technically, those are words with the same root. And it means something like "stinker" or "skunk", too.

[Svata]

What is the alignment, class and religious outlook of your player's character?

NE Crusader, doesn't follow any god.

[afroakuma]

Who, if any, of the Archdevils are likeliest to lose their seat in the near future?

Bel or Levistus.

Who stands to take their place?

Unspecified. We would assume that Zariel would be restored to her position if Bel were cast down... but of course there's nothing assuring that. Glasya may be given rights over Stygia if she casts down Levistus, in which case she would likely be required to appoint a viceroy. Again, though, Asmodeus might conceivably raise up someone else to take the job.

The Grey interferes with the Astral, right? Does this impede or influence summoning and teleportation in Athas?

I frankly do not have the books with me to check. I know teleportation is possible, at least within the sphere. Summoning things other than elementals, I couldn't tell you offhand.

In a poor attempt at a joke, one of my players, having temporarily forgotten the existance of mephits, called Mephistopheles 'Mephit-man'. How on the planes should I have him react?

Are they in his house? In front of his avatar? In his shrine? If he's got no reason to be personally on them like fire on burning thing, then I cannot fathom why he would care in the least. It would take an awfully stupid imp indeed to think there would be any gain in tattling on random Primes to Mephistopheles.

[Svata]

In front of an open portal to Mephistar in the heart of a building (formerly) occupied by a cult to him. Oh, and the cult was going to transfer (somehow, I never worked out the exact details) the power of a bunch of powerful creatures (two old dragons (blue and copper), a solar, various other things) to him in an attempt to give him more power/curry his favor. If it matters, the party is lv 17 and 18.

[WalkingTheShade]

In front of an open portal to Mephistar in the heart of a building (formerly) occupied by a cult to him. Oh, and the cult was going to transfer (somehow, I never worked out the exact details) the power of a bunch of powerful creatures (two old dragons (blue and copper), a solar, various other things) to him in an attempt to give him more power/curry his favor. If it matters, the party is lv 17 and 18.

I would have Big M shrug off the insult, for now. It's from a prime-world mortal, no need to show off. Keep your cool. Do you lose it if some gnat insults you? Do you squash it impulsively to show your might? A demon lord might do that, but it's so... uncivilized. True power is dominance. If it was a gnat, you'd trap it under a glass, starve it for some time, and then start removing piece by piece whatever makes the gnat a gnat.

I'd have Big M start by summoning a few of his best falxugons. Send them about the realm, trying to gather information about that insulting gnat.

Plan A.
The gnat has loved ones, people he cares about, etc.
Phase 1.
The falxugons go around, present pacts to everyone of those. If they won't sign, they take time to engineer a situation where those people would sign. There's no rush, they have time and near unlimited resources. Once everyone has signed, and moved alignment far enough to be sent to Baator, kill them one by one. Big M stores the souls in his private collection.
Phase 2.
A falxugon contacts the PC, explaining him that everyone he cares about has been killed and their souls sent to hell. Big M is doing nasty nasty things to them. In exchange for the PC's eternal servitude, both in life and death, Big M would agree to free the souls to go to their rightful afterlife. (Which happens to be exactly where they are already, but the PC doesn't need to know that.)
Oh, the most harmless clause of the contract is that the PC is to be renamed Sir Stink Poopeater, and under the compulsion to rectify anyone calling him by another name.
A smart PC would refuse, but then, Big M will start sending him nightmares about his loved ones being tortured, illusions of strangers calling him out on his selfishness, etc.

Whatever the PC does, that makes for a much better story.

Plan B.
So, seeing your PC is NE, he might be the sociopathic kind without any loved ones, or anything he cares about, except his own UNLIMITED POWAH.
I'd let some time pass, and then, arrange for the PC to be in a situation he believes he's just helped a falxugon. Maybe the PC has just offed one of his own enemies, and the falxugon was conveniently a "prisoner" or "slave" of that enemy. Whatever.
The falxugon weaves some lies about now being bound, by the laws of Baator, in servitude to the PC. However, the devil wants to buy back his freedom. For that, he'd propose a secret pact, giving lots of advantages to the PC. The only "catch" is that the falxugon can sign that kind of super secret pact only with a Lawful being. The falxugon gives much at the beginning, but let's the PC negotiate for more, etc.
The whole point is having the PC gladly sign a pact certain.
Then Big M waits for the PC to die and collects the soul.

[Dalmosh]

How do the Rilmani feel about Concordant Killers?

[Jowgen]

Hey Afro, I was perusing Fiendish Codex II and a theory about Asomodeus occurred to me. I know that "getting to the truth" is kind of a moot point with that guy, so really I just wanted to check whether this idea is plausible. And whether you "like" it.

"Roughly in keeping with the official story about the pact primeval, Asmodeus was in fact "cast down" after being a powerful entity of Law (one of the twin serpents, whatever that means). It is also true that he was deeply weakened by this, and has been licking his wounds ever since; with his goal being to regain his former power by torturing souls for divine energy and all that. There is, however, one terrible secret in all of this that Asmoedeus will not permit anyone to know... or, at least he wouldn't if he knew it himself. Which he doesn't.

When Asmodeus was cast down, he wasn't just placed in Baator (which he then happened to take over)... he was bound to it as its chief prisoner. Of course, Asmodeus is too powerful to be physically imprisoned anywhere. His prison is one of the mind. Asmodeus is trapped in the delusion that he can regain his former power; when in fact his efforts achieve the opposite. Those who cast him down wished to punish him for eternity while ensuring that he also punished the wicked souls of mortals. In running Baator, Asmodeus believes that he is working towards his triumphant return, when in truth that return only slips further and further away, and all he is really doing is serving the purpose those who cast him down intended for him. This deeply ironic punishment is the essence of the plane of Baator... and insult is added to injury by the fact that Asmodeus work in strengthening himself at the same time strengthens the plane itself, and in this his own binding.

It is only at the end of time when the Nine Hells come to lie in ruin, and all of Asmodeus' power is spent, that this true nature of the Pact Primeval will be revealed. Only then will Asmodeus be free of his delusion and realize the literal Hell of his own making that he had been trapped in. In that moment, Asmodeus may either perish in defeat for eternity, or he may find humbled redemption that allows him return to his original purpose as one of the twin-serpents of Law."

[JoeyTheNeko]

Hey Afro, I was perusing Fiendish Codex II I want you to smite me so hard I never get back up because this is extremely stupid and deserving black lightning theory

somehow I think this won't end well. just me.

afro, we know there is very little information about asmodous that is absolutely factual. can you tell us all that is known to be 100% true about him?

for that manner, what adventure paths have involved the lords of the nine/demon princes being confronted and slain? I know savage tide has demogorgan being dethroned. any other adventure modules with similar outcomes?

[Jowgen]

somehow I think this won't end well. just me.

Oh totally. I mean it's way too preposterous, I would never argue for there being anything to it, and I am more than half expecting either a severe smiting or a short searing dismissal... really, all I'm hoping for is either a "well, guess that could be"-shrug or a "no, that's dumb and here is why".

afro, we know there is very little information about asmodous that is absolutely factual. can you tell us all that is known to be 100% true about him?

That would be awesome, but I do get a feeling it won't end particularly well either. I mean, next to the Lady of Pain, Asmodeus seems to be one of the main things that gets constantly brought up in these things; and I don't think he likes that. If only we had an offering to appease him...

[enderlord99]

The word "Jobbernowl" comes to mind when reading the recent posts in this thread, for some reason.

[DrKerosene]

For new players/low-level characters asking why Powers sometimes interact with the PMP, but usually ignore most things, do you think "Every time a Good God does something, Evil is allowed to act, and vice-versa" is too simple an answer?

Focusing on the Map of Crystal Spheres you've provided, I was wondering if there is anything you would qualify as capable of being a threat to multiple crystal spheres (or at least the inhabitants)?

I expect any answer would be "no", or relatively local to only "so-many" Crystal Spheres (if more than one), when compared to an infinite PMP and enough time for "the right heroes" to fix anything (even with Powers being "hands-off").

Generally. I was wondering if there is anything similar to the Super-virus Daemon from Reboot, or the Reapers from the Mass Effect universe, but I'm trying to avoid "simply destructive". Edit: Is there anything comparable to "the Ravager", created by the Sazaur Beholders.

I'm trying to gather a list of "big bad background things" for some Epic-Level Spelljamming, but I'm mostly finding variations of aberration/outsider/other spelljammer empires, or somehow summoning a local type of cosmozoa. I've considered having a Draeden waaaay out somewhere, affecting travel routes, or maybe a faction of Spellweavers who've focused on (re)gifting apocalypse-artifacts to worlds, but that's about it for non-homebrew ideas I have (which are mostly related to a clockwork horror version of terraforming "meat-moss").

[Eldan]

There are several interstellar (interspherical?) evil empires, I'd imagine they'd manage quite well. A spelljammer fleet of mindflayers is quite a threat.

That said, how about my favourite go-to unusual bad guy, the Ethergaunts? They aren't spelljamming in canon, but they could be made to be so. I usually mix in a bit of old Necron flavour when I bring them up. Ancient evil, enormously powerful, technologically and magically superior, hates the gods, is slowly waking up to kill off all the interlopers who took "their" worlds.