Blood Bowl ITP III: Where You Either Win or Blame Nuffle... Sometimes Both

[Unpronounceable]

Turns out I won't be.

Rightyo

BTW if I'm in a game please do message me as It's never something I can't drop out of in a few minutes notice.

I was talking to Qwaz last night and he pointed out the week doesn't roll over till tuesday so that's a couple more days, and as I've said before, if you can give me a time I'll make it.

[Wraith]

I'm beginning to think my team has narcolepsy, seriously I don't think the warpstoners have had a game without a blitz against them!

Blitz! only happens if you roll a 10 on 2d6 at Kick Off (+/-1 depending on your FAME score, which is determined by your Fan Factor and the number of spectators who attend the match) and therefore is a 1/9 occurrence. This is exactly the same chance as Perfect Defense, which doesn't seem to occur anything like as often.

I think I've witnessed a Blitz! in something like 5 of my last 6 games, and I know that some people have seen it happen 2 or even 3 times in a single match. I don't think it's just your team!

[Qwaz]

Blitz! only happens if you roll a 10 on 2d6 at Kick Off (+/-1 depending on your FAME score, which is determined by your Fan Factor and the number of spectators who attend the match) and therefore is a 1/9 occurrence. This is exactly the same chance as Perfect Defense, which doesn't seem to occur anything like as often.

I think I've witnessed a Blitz! in something like 5 of my last 6 games, and I know that some people have seen it happen 2 or even 3 times in a single match. I don't think it's just your team!

Nearly right but not quite. Fame doesn't affect WHAT the kick off table result is but MAY affect some of how the results get played out.

All the following is summarised from the LRB 6 page 19....

Spoiler: Kick Off Table

Show

2d6 Result	Odds	Name	Effect
2	1/36	Get The Ref!	Each team gets a bribe
3	2/36	Riot	Clock moves forward or back one turn for both players. 50/50 unless one direction is the only possible.
4	3/36	Perfect Defence	Kicking side can change to another legal formation
5	4/36	High Kick	Ball scatter normally but the recieving coach can move any player (Not in a tackle zone) under the ball for free.
6	5/36	Cheering Fans	Coaches roll D3+FAME+Cheerleaders. Winner gets 1 re-roll. Tie gives both re-roll
7	6/36	Changing Weather	Re-roll on the weather table - Nice leads one square extra scatter
8	5/36	Brilliant Coaching	Coaches roll D3+FAME+Asst. Coaches. Winner gets 1 re-roll. Tie gives both re-roll
9	4/36	Quick Snap	Receiving team can move each player one square in any direction, ignoring tackle zones.
10	3/36	Blitz!	Defending team get an extra turn before the ball lands but only players not in an enemy tackle zone can make use of it.
11	2/36	Throw a Rock!	Each coach rolls a d6+FAME. Random player on losers team is hit by a rock. Straight injury roll is made. No Armour roll needed.
12	1/36	Pitch Invasion!	Each coach rolls a d6+FAME for each opposing player. A 6 or more and that player is "Stunned"

So...blitz is always a 1/12 chance of happening on any kick off.

FAME, Which lies somewhere bewteen 0 & +2 (depending on how many fans of your/your opponents turn up) affects how 4 results (not the blitz though) work but not the odds on getting the results.

Spoiler: FAME

Show

FAME = Fan Affected ModifiEr

This is a modifier based around how many of your and your opponents fans turn up. This is a roll made before the game but the results are not surfaced properly to the players even after the game (as far as i've seen) and that's annoying as it's interesting infomation, all be it one you have no control on. It works like this...

Before the match each coach sees how many of their fans turn up. That number is (2d6+fan factor)*1000

(The multiplier of 1000 is just there to make it seem more like a stadium of supporters and not your mates turnig up to say hi but otherwise has no real bearing)

If you have less than you opponent or are equal to them then your FAME = 0
If you have more than your opponent then your FAME = +1
If you have twice as many or more fans attend than your opponent then your FAME = +2

eg:

Coach A is playing Coach B

Coach A won lots of matches and gotten lucky with rolling so has a fan factor of 18
Coach B hasn't ever even drawn a match so has a fan factor of 0

Coach A Rolls 2d6 and gets 1+1, then adds his fan factor of 18 for a total of 20....20000 fans
Coach B Rolls 2d6 and gets 6+6 then adds his fan factor of 0 for a total of 12...12000 fans

Therefore Coach A has a FAME of +1 and Coach B has a FAME of 0. 32000 fans total attended the game.

The first you see of any of this maths though is the FAME added on if one of the kick off results is rolled and then the total fans at the end.

Now unless there is a large disparity in fan factor the 2d6 roll is far more important in determining FAME and even when it is as big as possible (as in the example above) the rolls could keep it as a +1 rather than a +2

The PRNG in this game has been proved fair many times So i'm going to say the feeling that Blitz happens more than Perfect Defense is confirmation bias cos Blitz is so much more punishing.

That said those games where you Recieve 3 times and are blitzed on ALL of them (Devmaar I'm looking at you!) does make me wonder

[Manticoran]

I'm just gonna say, I vastly prefer a Perfect Defense over a Blitz personally. A well set up Perfect Defense can almost entirely nullify, if not actually nullify, your opponent's advantage in going first, resulting in an easily staled game.

[Thufir]

I'm just gonna say, I vastly prefer a Perfect Defense over a Blitz personally. A well set up Perfect Defense can almost entirely nullify, if not actually nullify, your opponent's advantage in going first, resulting in an easily stalled game.

It kind of depends on what team you're playing I suppose. With a team that expects to stall out their opponents effectively a Perfect Defence can be pretty great, but with a team like Elves I'd much rather take the Blitz and just retrieve my own kick. It's also worth noting that the free Blitz turn does allow you a chance to alter your formation as well, since all your unmarked players can move.
In any case, if I'm receiving as any team I'd much rather see a Perfect Defence for my opponent than a Blitz. And the one result I never want to see is Pitch Invasion...

[Manticoran]

*Shrug* My primary team is Vampires, and usually my plan is to stall out with constant pressure on cages due to hypnotic gaze. Or just injure elves a lot. Against Elves, I'd prefer to have a Blitz so I can make their dodging out of my tackle zones harder, but against beaty teams I'd basically always prefer to get the Perfect Defense.

[Qwertystop]

Luzahn, when are you able to play our match?

[Wraith]

3/36 (Blitz!)

You wouldn't believe how often I forget that 5+5 is actually the same as 5+5

The PRNG in this game has been proved fair many times So i'm going to say the feeling that Blitz happens more than Perfect Defense is confirmation bias cos Blitz is so much more punishing.

I know the dice roller is accurate, but while perhaps anecdotal I don't think I'm exaggerating. Certainly in the Rookie League, I have had perhaps one Perfect Defence to half a dozen Blitz!, and in the games I've watched the pattern seems to be the same.

Honestly, I'm not arguing that it's unfair or unbalanced or anything, just perhaps that the table could be better prioritized. A Blitz! is a VERY good result, but that it statistically happens more often then a Get The Ref! result - which is still good, but far more situational and requires more tactical awareness of behalf of both players - does not seem wise.

And while I think about it, the Changing Weather table could use a bit of a change - I'm very sure that the most common result by a long shot is Perfect Weather changing into Perfect Weather, which kind of defeats the point. It's a fairly easy caveat to state that the weather MUST change, so reroll it if it stays the same, surely?

And the one result I never want to see is Pitch Invasion...

I broadly agree, but there has been more than one occasion where I've been in a very tight game, looking down the barrel of a 1 or 2 Turn Touchdown from my opponent, only for the crowd to make the save for me. I want to see it rarely, certainly, but never? Perhaps not.

[Manticoran]

"Brother Oni: Sorry, can we reschedule?
Brother Oni: It's too damn hot here to concentrate and I'm too sleepy to wait any longer for you."

Got home at 6pm to this. Not blaming you, just putting out our full communication. Feeling a little burned by Clarkson. :(

When works for you? I can probably do... Sunday would be best for me at this point, I think?

[Brother Oni]

"Brother Oni: Sorry, can we reschedule?
Brother Oni: It's too damn hot here to concentrate and I'm too sleepy to wait any longer for you."

Got home at 6pm to this. Not blaming you, just putting out our full communication. Feeling a little burned by Clarkson. :(

When works for you? I can probably do... Sunday would be best for me at this point, I think?

Ah, you came home about a quarter of an hour after I went to bed. Sorry, I misread your availability as BST so I was hanging around from 21:00-23:00 BST, wondering where you were.

Sunday sounds good - any particular time?

[Silfir]

You wouldn't believe how often I forget that 5+5 is actually the same as 5+5



I know the dice roller is accurate, but while perhaps anecdotal I don't think I'm exaggerating. Certainly in the Rookie League, I have had perhaps one Perfect Defence to half a dozen Blitz!, and in the games I've watched the pattern seems to be the same.

Honestly, I'm not arguing that it's unfair or unbalanced or anything, just perhaps that the table could be better prioritized. A Blitz! is a VERY good result, but that it statistically happens more often then a Get The Ref! result - which is still good, but far more situational and requires more tactical awareness of behalf of both players - does not seem wise.

And while I think about it, the Changing Weather table could use a bit of a change - I'm very sure that the most common result by a long shot is Perfect Weather changing into Perfect Weather, which kind of defeats the point. It's a fairly easy caveat to state that the weather MUST change, so reroll it if it stays the same, surely?



I broadly agree, but there has been more than one occasion where I've been in a very tight game, looking down the barrel of a 1 or 2 Turn Touchdown from my opponent, only for the crowd to make the save for me. I want to see it rarely, certainly, but never? Perhaps not.

I think Perfect Weather being so common on the weather table serves the pretty important purpose of making sure that the majority of any given match tends to actually take place in Perfect Weather, since the other weathers have a fairly huge and at times lopsided impact on the match. The kickoff table also completely lacks a "Nothing happens" option - Perfect Weather changing into Perfect Weather kind of fills that niche. (Though not really - the extra square of scatter can be quite important.)

I'll echo Qwaz and blame confirmation bias on the Blitz! rolls - I don't think you really remember which of the other results happen after the match. Blitz! is impossible not to notice, because it gives a full turn to your opponent when you were expecting to play yourself, and that gives you up to four minutes in which to cook up a nice and sizzling rage. Perfect Defense has half that effect (and anyway a lot of the time I find I only make small adjustments and don't nearly use the full two minutes.) Pitch Invasion sticks in memory, too, because of all those stunned players heavily affecting the following turns. But while I remember Pitch Invasion happen in matches I've played, I honestly can't remember a single case of Get the Ref!, even though both are equally likely - and I'm fairly convinced that's because Get the Ref! only changes a number on the right hand side of the screen, and many teams don't really foul all that much.

What all this boils down to is that anecdotal evidence is useless as useless can be.

(I'm quite fine with Blitz! being more common than Get the Ref!, to be honest, because while Blitz! can help whichever team is kicking at the time, Get the Ref! in any given match will benefit one side more than the other - whichever is the side that has cheap players to foul with and is likely to develop a numbers advantage over time. Similar is true for some of the weathers.)

[Qwaz]

Hi Gnoman, we're down to the last 3 days* when I'll be available for the game:

Tonight, not sure when I'll be on but probably from 9pm (BST) onwards

Tomorrow I am not in the office and so can play anytime

Thursday 4:30 (BST) onwards

Any chance you can tell me a specific time which would be good for you and I'll make it?

*there is a chance I'll be on sunday night but it depends when I get back as I'm away this weekend. It's likely to be late.

*Emphasis mine.

I should be around tonight so if it's going ahead please give a shout in thread coz i'd like to watch if possible.

[Luzahn]

Luzahn, when are you able to play our match?

I'm free for Friday and most of this weekend, just send me a message whenever you're available!

[Silfir]

Ivellius and I agreed to try to find time to play Okami Ye Faithful vs. Papa N's Storytime Crew sometime on Sunday. The time window is somewhat narrow; he'll have to play in early afternoon for it to be before midnight for me, though I might have Monday off and just stay up late. If you're really keen on watching the game, look for it starting at 8 pm GMT.

(Saturday was apparently not doable because of some kind of regional holiday.)

[Devmaar]

Champions of Dread vs. Something Ratten in the State of Den. will be kicking off in the next few minutes.

[Manticoran]

Well, I'm off work today for the weekend, and my plans for tonight fell through. So I'll be available this evening and maybe tomorrow evening too actually.

[Neon Knight]

Something Ratten. in Denmark 1 - 2 Champions of Dread.

Not a long match report for this one; it was a classic, nearly by the book 2-1 grind. In the first half, I kicked to him and slowly screened him down the pitch. A messed up dodge on the very last turn left a corridor open for him to score; that Tackle is a real headache. 2nd half, my drive, I score in two turns. He received the ball the next drive and I screened him slowly down the pitch. This time, AV7 and attrition had finally taken their toll, and I didn't have enough pieces to both try and screen a potential handoff to get around my blockade and also keep the blockade whole. I chose to reinforce my line, and the hobgoblin walked over for the handoff to another hobgoblin, who promptly flubbed it. The game was saved from a tie by a Bull Centaur catching the fly ball and running it in to score.

Well played to Devmaar. For the most part, it was the most straightforward and normal game of Bloodbowl I've seen in a while.

[Devmaar]

Champions of Dread vs. Something Ratten in the State of Den. will be kicking off in the next few minutes.

2-1 to the Chaos Dwarves. It was looking bad at half time, 1-0 up and kicking with no rats off the pitch. But a quick Skaven touchdown followed by the Dwarves finally starting to spill blood allowed the ball to be carried within lunging distance of the endzone. The game finished with a turn-16 failed handoff scattering to a Bull Centaur who made the catch and ran in the touchdown for the win.

Thanks for the game Neon Knight, well played

[LeSwordfish]

I forgot to mention that Maetherion's team beat the Skulls 1-0 a couple of days ago. A good game - lizardmen are scary! I took too long to pick up on the "dogpile the skinks" strategy and it showed, with a series of the sneaky little buggers breaking the ball from my cage and running away with it near the end of the first half- even dedicated efforts to beat up those that remained within arms reach - a few had the misfortune to be charged by two tomb guardians - got no injuries and few knockdowns. In the second half things went little better, and the only thing preventing another goal was a turnover in the final turn as one of Maetherion's Saurus failed to completely kick in the head of my newest star, Audrey Hipbone.

Matt Le Ankh - one of my beloved Tomb Guardians With Guard - is returning next game, so here's hoping for better luck then.

[Wraith]

I very much wanted to spectate the Ratten/Dread match, but for some reason the game refused to let me connect. I'm wondering if it's a regional issue - the game has been reluctant to let me play with Devmaar in the past - but hopefully it'll resolve itself before another match is played.

[Qwaz]

I Wanted to spectate the Ratten/Dread match, but for some reason the game refused to let me connect.

Tried & ditto.

[Silfir]

That makes three of us!

I think it has to do with Devmaar's connection issues. We've tried to resolve them before, but as far as I remember it would always end up with me having to challenge him to get a match started. The solution probably has to do with Devmaar adopting a static IP and opening all the ports required by the game through port forwarding or some other act of wizardry.

[Brother Oni]

Well, I'm off work today for the weekend, and my plans for tonight fell through. So I'll be available this evening and maybe tomorrow evening too actually.

I've got something on early evening Friday, but I should be back about 19:00 GMT. I may not be available (or sober) on Saturday, and I'm free all Sunday until about 23:00 GMT.

[Devmaar]

That makes three of us!

I think it has to do with Devmaar's connection issues. We've tried to resolve them before, but as far as I remember it would always end up with me having to challenge him to get a match started. The solution probably has to do with Devmaar adopting a static IP and opening all the ports required by the game through port forwarding or some other act of wizardry.

It's probably this. I think I still have this wizardry done though, way back when I first posted here and tried to play Silfir we couldn't connect at all. Now I can play it just sometimes requires a few attempts...

I didn't realise it could affect spectators though, although I often have difficulty correcting to dictate myself...

[Wraith]

I've left Steam-based messages with both Froish and Luzahn, since they're next on my respective Rookie and Legacy hit lists. If both, or either, of you could get in touch then we'll organise a match some time.

Especially Luzahn - the deadline for our match is tomorrow (July 4th) so barring a short deadline extension in honour of the day we need to get a move on as I believe he's in the USA and thus might be preoccupied.

The solution probably has to do with Devmaar adopting a static IP and opening all the ports required by the game through port forwarding or some other act of wizardry.

Umm.... Maybe he could.... try.... reversing the polarity? dammit i hate computers sometimes.....

[Brother Oni]

Umm.... Maybe he could.... try.... reversing the polarity? dammit i hate computers sometimes.....

As I understand it and using poor analogies, suppose Devmaar went a restaurant (logged in to his ISP). He would wait to be seated, get given an available table number (assigned a dynamic IP) and his food (data) would be served to that table number. If Devmaar was a regular, he could reserve a particular table number from the restaurant instead (request a static IP).
Now suppose there was a particularly dense waiter (Blood Bowl network code), who can't read the table numbers but recognises Devmaar on sight. Our waiter has trouble finding Devmaar when he's at a random table, but can find him when he's at the same reserved table.

I'll have to use a different analogy for port forwarding: suppose Devmaar's computer was a factory with lots of doors (ports). In order to even out entry/exit of stuff from the factory (network traffic) to stop bottlenecks, every line in the factory (program) are assigned their individual doors. Sometimes these doors are blocked by the overly strict building security (firewall) who stop legitimate deliveries and shipping if the paperwork isn't completed down to the last dotted i and crossed t, so rather than deal with them and their stupidly by-the-book Security manager, you extend your entrances out past the site boundary where the jobsworth guards don't bother to patrol (port forwarding).

Does that help at all?

[Tasroth]

I've left Steam-based messages with both Froish and Luzahn, since they're next on my respective Rookie and Legacy hit lists. If both, or either, of you could get in touch then we'll organise a match some time.

Especially Luzahn - the deadline for our match is tomorrow (July 4th) so barring a short deadline extension in honour of the day we need to get a move on as I believe he's in the USA and thus might be preoccupied.

I have been meaning to nudge people about the Legacy League. As far as I know, Thufir and Froish have been in contact and are playing at the weekend. Since it's the last week before the playoffs, the remaining matches can affect playoff contention, and our US players may be busy, I was thinking of extending the deadline into Sunday if necessary but I can't really offer much more than that.

[Qwertystop]

I'm free for Friday and most of this weekend, just send me a message whenever you're available!

I'm on and ready. You appear to not be on Steam at the moment.

[Brother Oni]

Manticoran, I'm available for the next four hours or so from time of this posting to play our game. You don't seem to be responding on Steam, so just adding this here to make sure it gets seen somewhere.

Edit:

Spartans of Khorne 0: Ms.Dot's Nurse Academy 1

Despite a good start with the Spartans holding the orcs back (and nearly stealing the ball at one point), things went completely pearshaped on the first block of the second half with the Bloodthirster falling into a Frenzy trap. It only got cemented with a failed Spartan hand off and Manticoran leisurely scored on turn 16 while making sure to put the boot in a couple of times (including a turn 15 foul on the Bloodthirster, despite a number of Spartan permanent injuries and a death already).

On the plus side, I can't fail to get my third reroll as I only need 10k after saving 5 games for it.
On the down side, I now need to start saving up for replacement players.

[Manticoran]

1-0 to the Academy. A Khorne Blitz on the first half made me scared as hell for a second, until the Bloodthirster rolled Wild Animal. Chaos reigned for the first half of the game, with neither player able to get to get anywhere useful, but the Bloodthirster getting 2-3 Orcs out of the game, and a foul on the Bloodthirster at the end of the first half blew the Khorne Apoth with a Badly Hurt. Second half started with the Bloodthirster frenzying into a pile of Orcs and rolling Attacker Down/Push, giving the Orcs a quick advantage. With more Guard, more Block, and more Strength on the field, Oni made it surprisingly difficult to get a turn 16 score.