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Thread: DMing Style

  1. - Top - End - #31
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    AssassinGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by goto124 View Post
    I suppose it is a good idea to ask the player to give said reason.
    I regard it as a challenge to myself to describe in as great detail as possible just how spectacularly my party's ill-conceived plans fail. If nothing else, it makes failure fun.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    PirateWench

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    Here are the things that I try to incorporate into my "style":

    (1) Always be fair. That doesn't mean always being "nice". That's different. But if someone has a clever idea and it ought to work, even if means killing the meant-to-be-a-recurring-villain guy in two seconds the first time he appears, then fine, it works; no hard feelings. There are always more bad guys.

    (2) Give everyone their time to shine. Let the characters do what they were built to do. Don't frustrate the rogue by saying "Okay, from now on, you'll only fight enemies immune to sneak attack." Don't frustrate the wizard by saying "Every adventure takes place in an anti-magic field now." That doesn't mean that there can't occasionally be situations where a particular character is frustrated, but it shouldn't happen all the time.

    Also, if a character has some particularly interesting quality, let them use it. If they speak some obscure language, have an adventure where that *matters*. If they have the ability to rebuke hippos, make an adventure where that matters. If a character has an interesting backstory, *use* it.

    (3) No railroads. Sandboxes if possible. The rules for 3.x D&D make it hard to make sandbox adventures, but it's still possible. The best campaigns I've ever run have leaned towards the sandbox direction.

    As a corollary: wherever possible, avoid "dungeons". I know, I know, that's half of the name of the game. But they tend to limit things into a very linear (or effectively linear) way which is great for a newb DM but not for me.
    Last edited by SimonMoon6; 2015-06-11 at 10:37 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Full sandbox. Zero hand-holding. Real risk of death.
    Last edited by Sacrieur; 2015-06-11 at 10:47 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I regard it as a challenge to myself to describe in as great detail as possible just how spectacularly my party's ill-conceived plans fail. If nothing else, it makes failure fun.
    I'll just note that this particular version of 'fun' doesn't fit within the definition of that term used by many Players I've known.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I'll just note that this particular version of 'fun' doesn't fit within the definition of that term used by many Players I've known.
    If im going to allow my players to try anything, that means running with the obviously bad ideas. Its better than telling them "Nope, you did a dumb, deal with it."
    Last edited by Keltest; 2015-06-11 at 11:34 AM.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    If im going to allow my players to try anything, that means running with the obviously bad ideas. Its better than telling them "Nope, you did a dumb, deal with it."
    This. Sometimes you have to roll with the obviously stupid plans...

    Once, the party was convinced a endless pit in the dungeon was a portal or a way out... Like... CONVINCED. Hints were given that is was not the case, I used the ultimate DON'T DO THIS plea and asked them "Are you sure?". But they jumped!

    I actually finished the session, letting them think the pit led to another world... Then I explained it was hallucinations from starvation, and that they were actually endlessly falling....
    Last edited by AxeAlex; 2015-06-11 at 11:54 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Permissive, but tough. I prefer to sandbox things (though it's really hard, so i frequently fail on this front), I allow essentially any 1st or 2nd party (and some homebrew). World is a very metropolitan, highly fantastic place to account for all of this. I allow any plausible course of actions, including ones that could easily circumvent a challenge. However, I also allow you to make idiotic decisions. Your success in your hands, not mine.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    If im going to allow my players to try anything, that means running with the obviously bad ideas. Its better than telling them "Nope, you did a dumb, deal with it."
    Or, it's an alternate way of telling them "No, you did a dumb, deal with it" which, apparently, your Players will not take umbrage with because of the perception that they're being told this in a kinder, gentler way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by antoniosmith198 View Post
    Just curious as to what your dming style is.

    Are you a very picky and hands on controlling type with every aspect including character creation?
    I ask the players what they want to play, and guide them towards the most optimized way to emulate that concept. After all, your cool and flavorful idea is a lot more fun to play if the character works.

    I encourage people to try different characters, and work with them to make their ideas playable, but I don't like deviating too far from the core rules. For example, one player keeps asking for a pet phoenix. That's not happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by antoniosmith198 View Post
    Do you allow your players to have complete control of their characters?
    Yes, but not completely. As a DM, one of my jobs is being the storyteller. So, the players describe what they want to do, and I describe what actually happens. 90% of the time, what I describe lines up with what they wanted. The other 10% of the time, the player's idea breaks the rules of the game in some way, and I have to create a narrative excuse for it not happening.

    For example, D&D 5E just doesn't have called shots. They conflict with my interpretation of what "hit points" are, and if called shots are a thing, the archers will just call headshots every time, and go for the instant kill.
    So, in my games, called shots chronically get caught in armor, simply graze the target, or otherwise have no effects other than the damage caused by a normal attack roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by antoniosmith198 View Post
    Do you just guide the players in a certain direction and let the game play out with different twists and turns?
    I relish plot twists as much as my players do, so I'm just as thrilled when they do something unexpected as they are when I surprise them. There is a direction I want the game to go, but I am not afraid to let my player's actions find a new route.

    I've recently been trying to loosen up even more with my storytelling. I'm slowly transitioning from a very Mass Effect-ish storytelling style (railroads with branching paths) to more open-ended campaigns.
    Last edited by Freelance GM; 2015-06-11 at 09:57 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Or, it's an alternate way of telling them "No, you did a dumb, deal with it" which, apparently, your Players will not take umbrage with because of the perception that they're being told this in a kinder, gentler way.
    Well, yeah, that's the idea. D&D is after all a game. Im not sure where the confusion here lies, actually. Im trying to make defeat as enjoyable (or nearly so) as victory. That means going out of my way to avoid making them unhappy about it.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Well, yeah, that's the idea. D&D is after all a game. Im not sure where the confusion here lies, actually. Im trying to make defeat as enjoyable (or nearly so) as victory. That means going out of my way to avoid making them unhappy about it.
    I'm not confused. I'm indicating that, in my experience, what you're describing as an effort to avoid making them unhappy about it will, instead, make some Players more unhappy about it, because they perceive it as a combination of sugarcoating the garbage-flavored sandwich (rather than being up-front about things) and rubbing their noses in it (by going into "as great detail as possible just how spectacularly my party's ill-conceived plans fail"). If it works for you, great; your experience is not mine. It's a recipe for annoying Players, in my experience.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Even I ask my players, "Are you sure you want to do that?" when they come up with a stupid plan.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I'm not confused. I'm indicating that, in my experience, what you're describing as an effort to avoid making them unhappy about it will, instead, make some Players more unhappy about it, because they perceive it as a combination of sugarcoating the garbage-flavored sandwich (rather than being up-front about things) and rubbing their noses in it (by going into "as great detail as possible just how spectacularly my party's ill-conceived plans fail"). If it works for you, great; your experience is not mine. It's a recipe for annoying Players, in my experience.
    Theres no sugarcoating. They still die, often horribly. They can just laugh about it.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I'm not confused. I'm indicating that, in my experience, what you're describing as an effort to avoid making them unhappy about it will, instead, make some Players more unhappy about it, because they perceive it as a combination of sugarcoating the garbage-flavored sandwich (rather than being up-front about things) and rubbing their noses in it (by going into "as great detail as possible just how spectacularly my party's ill-conceived plans fail"). If it works for you, great; your experience is not mine. It's a recipe for annoying Players, in my experience.
    I think you don't get what Keltest means. If you simply refuse a plan because it won't work (Nah, don't do this, you will die), you are robbing them of their agency. Sometimes, they make bad choices, sometimes, these choices will kill them.

    When that happens, you have some options, like:

    -Create a Deus Ex Machina to save them, which, if done too much, will let your players know they can't really die, will lessen suspense and tension, and will make them take more and more risks, and put themselves in more and more deadly situations. (That does not mean it's a bad thing if you guys like it that way)

    -Tell them they are dead.

    -Try to play out their death scene, it's the end of the story afterall, there is nothing wrong if you try to make it as memorable (Epic/Funny/Gruesome/Dramatic) as possible.

    Keltest isn't saying he taunts his players and insult them... They are his friends afterall!
    Last edited by AxeAlex; 2015-06-12 at 12:08 PM.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by AxeAlex View Post
    I think you don't get what Keltest means. If you simply refuse a plan because it won't work (Nah, don't do this, you will die), you are robbing them of their agency. Sometimes, they make bad choices, sometimes, these choices will kill them.

    When that happens, you have some options, like:

    -Create a Deus Ex Machina to save them, which, if done too much, will let your players know they can't really die, will lessen suspense and tension, and will make them take more and more risks, and put themselves in more and more deadly situations. (That does not mean it's a bad thing if you guys like it that way)

    -Tell them they are dead.

    -Try to play out their death scene, it's the end of the story afterall, there is nothing wrong if you try to make it as memorable (Epic/Funny/Gruesome/Dramatic) as possible.

    Keltest isn't saying he taunts his players and insult them... They are his friends afterall!
    "As great detail as possible just how spectacularly my party's ill-conceived plans fail" is a direct quote of the approach he uses. My position was, and continues to be, that a DM who goes into that level of detail to make the failure of a plan 'spectacular' will make some Players feel taunted and insulted, regardless of whether that's the DM's intent or not. This position is consistent with my experiences on both sides of the DM's screen. I fully recognize, and have now acknowledged repeatedly, that others may have different experiences.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    "As great detail as possible just how spectacularly my party's ill-conceived plans fail" is a direct quote of the approach he uses. My position was, and continues to be, that a DM who goes into that level of detail to make the failure of a plan 'spectacular' will make some Players feel taunted and insulted, regardless of whether that's the DM's intent or not. This position is consistent with my experiences on both sides of the DM's screen. I fully recognize, and have now acknowledged repeatedly, that others may have different experiences.
    Yeah the way he described it initially sounded wrong, but then he added: "That means going out of my way to avoid making them unhappy about it."

    What I understood from this is that he just wanted them to have fun in defeat. And that is entirely possible without hurting the player's feelings.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by AxeAlex View Post
    Yeah the way he described it initially sounded wrong, but then he added: "That means going out of my way to avoid making them unhappy about it."

    What I understood from this is that he just wanted them to have fun in defeat. And that is entirely possible without hurting the player's feelings.
    Indeed. Im not tactless about it.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Still finding my feet DMing but enjoying it so far.

    On the scale of sandbox to railroad I am probably 80% towards sandbox. I have an overarching plot to the world and by the worlds nature powerful NPCs will have an effect on the PCs whatever they do.

    If I have a set of factions and background set out for a port city at the start of a campaign and my players think "screw it, boats are cool - lets go overseas" then they can go but there is a serious risk that across the pond things may not be too different to where they started and similar things with different names may unfold there.

    Otherwise I am about variety. I like fights that occasionally play to characters strengths - an occasional cluster of badguys round a campfire to be a prime fireball target for example but also some really tough running battles that need careful resource management against veterans using all their knowledge and tactics to fight effectively. Overall I am pretty tough.

    I think the big thing I try and do is have enemies react, within combat and within adventure paths. If PCs crash down a door into a room to fight whatever is in there a round or two later the guys from across the hall will come in behind them. If they rob a temple then a bunch of paladins may come searching for them.

    I do like dungeons - for a broad description of them. As a bit of an aside to a main quest they allow you to build an area in detail as they wont change much for most likely player actions. This can save one preparation as you can do a bunch earlier. Where the players want a more hack and slash session they might find their way into one.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    I prefer to run a cinematic and rules lite style of gaming. I don't have much time now days to read rules and/or create elaborate and intricate campaigns. And as long as everyone is having fun,why worry about the small stuff?

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrStabby View Post
    Still finding my feet DMing but enjoying it so far.

    On the scale of sandbox to railroad I am probably 80% towards sandbox. I have an overarching plot to the world and by the worlds nature powerful NPCs will have an effect on the PCs whatever they do.

    If I have a set of factions and background set out for a port city at the start of a campaign and my players think "screw it, boats are cool - lets go overseas" then they can go but there is a serious risk that across the pond things may not be too different to where they started and similar things with different names may unfold there.

    Otherwise I am about variety. I like fights that occasionally play to characters strengths - an occasional cluster of badguys round a campfire to be a prime fireball target for example but also some really tough running battles that need careful resource management against veterans using all their knowledge and tactics to fight effectively. Overall I am pretty tough.

    I think the big thing I try and do is have enemies react, within combat and within adventure paths. If PCs crash down a door into a room to fight whatever is in there a round or two later the guys from across the hall will come in behind them. If they rob a temple then a bunch of paladins may come searching for them.

    I do like dungeons - for a broad description of them. As a bit of an aside to a main quest they allow you to build an area in detail as they wont change much for most likely player actions. This can save one preparation as you can do a bunch earlier. Where the players want a more hack and slash session they might find their way into one.
    What you described is 100% sandbox. The players just aren't the only ones playing in it.
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    I like games with solid rules on encumbrance and fatigue. We spend entire sessions keeping records on exactly how much gear the party is carrying and how it's packed. If it's questionable, I'll have them roleplay it.

    Combat we just handwave away. We assume that if you're carrying the proper equipment that it's a non-issue. Slaying the dragon is the easy part. Invoicing all of the coins, gems, and magical artifacts and packing them in the most efficient and balanced manner is where the real gaming comes into play.

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    It often turns out to be a railroad trip from sandbox to sandbox. I pretty much determine what the first encounter will be, and how they handle it determines what the next one will be, and how they will encounter it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maglubiyet View Post
    I like games with solid rules on encumbrance and fatigue. We spend entire sessions keeping records on exactly how much gear the party is carrying and how it's packed. If it's questionable, I'll have them roleplay it.

    Combat we just handwave away. We assume that if you're carrying the proper equipment that it's a non-issue. Slaying the dragon is the easy part. Invoicing all of the coins, gems, and magical artifacts and packing them in the most efficient and balanced manner is where the real gaming comes into play.
    I like the way you play! Do you want to collate spreadsheets?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maglubiyet View Post
    I like games with solid rules on encumbrance and fatigue. We spend entire sessions keeping records on exactly how much gear the party is carrying and how it's packed. If it's questionable, I'll have them roleplay it.

    Combat we just handwave away. We assume that if you're carrying the proper equipment that it's a non-issue. Slaying the dragon is the easy part. Invoicing all of the coins, gems, and magical artifacts and packing them in the most efficient and balanced manner is where the real gaming comes into play.
    The only thing that bugs me about that would be: how do you know if equipment gets used up in the combat? If I make sure to carry exactly 28 crossbow bolts before the fight, will I still have 28 crossbow bolts after the fight? This is IMPORTANT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    The only thing that bugs me about that would be: how do you know if equipment gets used up in the combat? If I make sure to carry exactly 28 crossbow bolts before the fight, will I still have 28 crossbow bolts after the fight? This is IMPORTANT.
    In dnd 3.5 bolts have a 50% recover rate if they miss. And can never be recovered if they hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbeyon View Post
    In dnd 3.5 bolts have a 50% recover rate if they miss. And can never be recovered if they hit.
    But if you handwave combat, how do you know whether your crossbow bolts missed or self destructed in the enemy!?
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    The only thing that bugs me about that would be: how do you know if equipment gets used up in the combat? If I make sure to carry exactly 28 crossbow bolts before the fight, will I still have 28 crossbow bolts after the fight? This is IMPORTANT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbeyon View Post
    In dnd 3.5 bolts have a 50% recover rate if they miss. And can never be recovered if they hit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    But if you handwave combat, how do you know whether your crossbow bolts missed or self destructed in the enemy!?
    Ha, it's a trick question! No sane player would risk expending valuable resources like a crossbow bolt. PC's are assumed to conserve their expendable items, like potions, arrows, scrolls, etc.

    Man, can you imagine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrieur View Post
    What you described is 100% sandbox. The players just aren't the only ones playing in it.
    Ah, I can live with that. They seem to enjoy it anyway. I am still finding quite the right style and balance for the party though. It may take a couple more sessions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maglubiyet View Post
    I like games with solid rules on encumbrance and fatigue. We spend entire sessions keeping records on exactly how much gear the party is carrying and how it's packed. If it's questionable, I'll have them roleplay it.

    Combat we just handwave away. We assume that if you're carrying the proper equipment that it's a non-issue. Slaying the dragon is the easy part. Invoicing all of the coins, gems, and magical artifacts and packing them in the most efficient and balanced manner is where the real gaming comes into play.
    Funny thing about this.

    I once had a game scenario following the trope of protect the caravan. A player showed up on game day with four sheets of graph paper taped together on which he had plotted the marching order for the 10 wagon and 30 pack animal caravan, where the guards would be insert amongst the merchants, which wagons held the valuables mixed in with the more mundane goods and patterns that mounted scouts would use to circle the slow moving caravan as it advanced.

    In addition he had a schedule for moving the herd which included time feed and rest the animals morning, mid-day and evening, very reasonable estimates of movement rate and hours per day.

    It was very obsessive.

    I let his work be useful. Then I saved it into a section of my content as an article about how caravans move.

    That said, I do use encumbrance, but I provide a piece of inventory software I wrote for my players that does all the work. They just select what they have and it outputs encumbrance and movement rates.
    Last edited by The Evil DM; 2015-06-15 at 09:23 AM.
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    That sounds awesome.

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