Page 5....err..48

[K2]

So, you are just born..as an adult....

makes owning cities much more important.

[Assassinfox]

Erfworld's starting to sound a bit like Civilization...

[K2]

I was thinking Total War, but then I realized that you can not create leading units in that game. They are just born every so often, with the parents ages usually being listed as 12 and 65...kinda creepy.
But, that is a tangent

[ryos]

Naturally, in a world without children, nobody writes books about the basics. Who would read them? Everyone pops with at least a Kindergarten-level education. "Everything I need to know, I learned in Kindergarten." Good show, Rob!

Looks like an all-nighter for Parson. I daresay that inferring the properties of the world with little to no help from anyone will be Parson's first chance to show his brilliance...even if nobody in Erfworld sees it as such. (You don't really appreciate the genius of a baby unless you think about it.)

[pingcode20]

I thought of it as Heroes of Might and Magic - you have the building, and the units pop into existence of their own accord, ready for recruitment.

The whole Warlords = Heroes thing works out too, but the Overlord system seems more to be the user interface and primary hero meshed into one than anything.

[Nerd_Paladin]

How is it a bonus page if we're getting it in lieu of a real comic page?

[Kanthalion]

How is it a bonus page if we're getting it in lieu of a real comic page?

Cause we'll get the real page on Thursday?

[Midnight Lurker]

Now this is getting freaky. But in a bad way.

If I were Parson (and I damn near am), one of the things I'd be worried about now is: If Erfworld is a strategy game, who are the players?

And what happens when the game ends?

[Maerad of Pellinor]

This Klog makes me even more convinced that Erfworld is something out of a child's imagination....

Edit: oops, didn't see the other thread, sorry

[Maerad of Pellinor]

I thought of it as Heroes of Might and Magic - you have the building, and the units pop into existence of their own accord, ready for recruitment.

It does seem like that....

But when you think about it, there really aren't any children ever in most RPG's--it sucks to play one because of the penalties you get, and there's almost never a point in having an NPC child that lasts for more than a few minutes because s/he would either have to be extremely annoying or to seem very out of character.

[Nerd_Paladin]

Cause we'll get the real page on Thursday?

Really? Where did it say that? Well, alright then, I can wait...

[Demented]

Now this is getting freaky. But in a bad way.

If I were Parson (and I damn near am), one of the things I'd be worried about now is: If Erfworld is a strategy game, who are the players?

And what happens when the game ends?

When one of the civilizations meets the victory conditions, of course.

[Doshi]

Now this is getting freaky. But in a bad way.

If I were Parson (and I damn near am), one of the things I'd be worried about now is: If Erfworld is a strategy game, who are the players?

And what happens when the game ends?

If the world ends when the game ends, then in the most fundamental sense, the ultimate enemy of every character in Erf World is the Players (the Titans?) Perhaps Parson will eventually conspire with Stanley and Anson to keep the Game going indefinately? Maybe Wanda already understands the rules of the Game, which is why she has no hope?

[Xenon]

games have no children, usualy because of restrictions taht apply if you show violence against children.

i like how we see parson inside a turn-based strategy game. i am betting that you have a research bar as well as production bars... what can you research? spells and unit types are the obvious things.

[Midnight Lurker]

If the world ends when the game ends, then in the most fundamental sense, the ultimate enemy of every character in Erf World is the Players (the Titans?) Perhaps Parson will eventually conspire with Stanley and Anson to keep the Game going indefinately? Maybe Wanda already understands the rules of the Game, which is why she has no hope?

Makes sense. When the Titans were making the world -- customizing a map -- one of them left a major resource node in the wrong place...

But if there are players, then presumably Stanley and Ansom are under their control... unless...

Unless "nobility" is a quality conferred on the Players' avatars.

In which case, Stanley is a rogue element... an AI who killed an avatar and took over...

Of course, we may be reading way too much into this.

[innovan]

And how does the Magic Kingdom then work? Why would anyone create a caster for their city, then donate them to the Magic Kingdom?

A question for a future series in Erfworld that features a spellcaster.

I propose instead of "ending", that so many turns equeals a game, and that any kingdom with more cities above a threshold gets split into two kingdoms with two overlords. And that royals are too stupid and programmed to keep gathering up cities into their kingdom to ever figure out that they'll actually split.

Stanley is originally a scout unit. What makes him different is his motivation is to explore and collect items, not cities.

[JonathanC]

Cause we'll get the real page on Thursday?

No, Thursdays are for klogs. Tuesdays and Saturdays are for strips.

[Midnight Lurker]

Last week we had three strips in a row because the Klog that would have run on Thursday was a spoiler for Saturday's strip. So there may be two Klogs in a row this week.

[The Giant]

As I understand it, the distinction between getting a real page or a klog on a specific day has been abandoned. As in, there will be content on Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, with no guarantee on what it will be. This is because of the strip accidentally falling behind the klogs in continuity last week, and illness on Jamie's part (and only Rob is needed to produce a klog).

Rob has told me that yes, there will be full strips on Thursday and Saturday.

[Scientivore]

Makes sense. When the Titans were making the world -- customizing a map -- one of them left a major resource node in the wrong place...

But if there are players, then presumably Stanley and Ansom are under their control... unless...

Unless "nobility" is a quality conferred on the Players' avatars.

In which case, Stanley is a rogue element... an AI who killed an avatar and took over...

Of course, we may be reading way too much into this.

There was a whole page of visual reference to Tron during the casting of the Perfect Warlord spell. So, it's conceivable that Parson has been summoned into the magical equivalent, with magical AIs who think that they're people. However, I argue that Stanley is more likely an avatar who displaced an AI than the other way around.

Not all overlords in a computerized wargame are controlled by human players; usually just one in my games. Stanley's tribe is the Plaid which is just one short-to-long vowel shift from "played".

Stanley "became an overlord by regicide." "Well, kinda." In many of the computerized fantasy strategy wargames that I've played, the first thing that you do in a prebuilt scenario is take control of one of the kingdoms that would've otherwise been controlled by a distinctive named NPC ruler who was built into the history of the scenario.

In many multi-side scenarios, it seems like the computer-controlled opponents love to gang up on me, no matter which nation I choose. It's as if they hate me just for not being one of them.

Finally, Stanley appears (to me) to exhibit a quality of self-direction that is unique in his world. I've discussed that in exhaustive detail in other threads so I won't belabor the point here.

[factotum]

As far as units just being created in cities goes...doesn't pretty much any wargame do that? Going into all the growing up and educating people is just irrelevant in a wargame, so they don't bother with it. Of course, the reason units usually "pop" in cities is because they're assumed to have a population of common citizens you can train up to become troops, but Erfworld doesn't seem to have that...

[Gez]

Stanley's tribe is the Plaid which is just one short-to-long vowel shift from "played".

<more stuff>

His childish behavior could also be explained that way if he's actually the avatar of a child.

Of course, there's still the "he was common infantry" thing. Of course, there could be an FPS set in the Erfworld to which the same player played before, but it's dubious.

[katana2665]

Well we're on the table now, nicely told...and I finally understand (in true newb form) what 'Klog' means...oh well....I'm going back to my drawing tablet.

[SteveMB]

A few random observations:

"Bigger the unit, longer the time": That confirms my notion on why Stanley hadn't spent some of his 500K to produce more forces (anything useful wouldn't appear in time to help).

"Big cities can produce warlords but it takes lots of turns. Infantry units can be promoted in the capital but it takes mucho schmuckero.": Stanley was promoting his existing infantry to warlord because money was less tight than time in his situation. It also fits his comment that there wasn't time for Parson to "come all the way up through the ranks" (the former option as perceived inside the world).

Perhaps warlords obtained through the latter option are assumed to be "green" (figuratively speaking, as opposed to literally speaking after Wanda reanimates them) and have limited skill, which would partially explain Stanley's military problems.

"So how the boop does royalty work?": This is what is known in the trade as a booping good question.

"Ansom's forces split into flyers and non-flyers mostly, but both groups too strong to ambush... probably we lost our chance and gave up the prisoner.": That seems to imply that the original ambush was scrubbed as I inferred.

Edit:

There was a whole page of visual reference to Tron during the casting of the Perfect Warlord spell. So, it's conceivable that Parson has been summoned into the magical equivalent, with magical AIs who think that they're people. However, I argue that Stanley is more likely an avatar who displaced an AI than the other way around.

Not all overlords in a computerized wargame are controlled by human players; usually just one in my games. Stanley's tribe is the Plaid which is just one short-to-long vowel shift from "played"....

If Spacerock is a pre-defined "primary opponent" of the player realm(s), that would fit Ansom's antagonism to Stanley because he is "common infantry" (i.e. a player avatar entering the game world in place of one of the AIs incorporated into the initial setup). If Stanley's lack of alliance-building reflects the player's strategy, it would explain why all the AIs are on the opposition side.

His childish behavior could also be explained that way if he's actually the avatar of a child.

Perhaps. OTOH, poor strategy from a player of any age could lead to actions that would seem childish from "inside" the world.

Of course, there's still the "he was common infantry" thing. Of course, there could be an FPS set in the Erfworld to which the same player played before, but it's dubious.

Or it could just be a standard "canned" background for a player avatar.

[JordanGreywolf]

If the world ends when the game ends, then in the most fundamental sense, the ultimate enemy of every character in Erf World is the Players (the Titans?) Perhaps Parson will eventually conspire with Stanley and Anson to keep the Game going indefinately?

That would be a pretty interesting setup. Perhaps the world doesn't end after a battle, but after the "campaign" is over ... and the "campaign" will end when all four Arkentools are in the hands of one Overlord. (I guess an important clue for or against this theory would be to find out more about those battles in that history book: Are the Arkentools the McGuffin that prompt all of these battles, throughout "history"? Has anyone held them all at once before?)

[ObadiahtheSlim]

It does seem like that....

But when you think about it, there really aren't any children ever in most RPG's--it sucks to play one because of the penalties you get, and there's almost never a point in having an NPC child that lasts for more than a few minutes because s/he would either have to be extremely annoying or to seem very out of character.

Its more for legal reasons I think. If you have little restrictions (elder scrolls series) then you could kill the children. That could get you into some legal hot water. So they just don't put them in. Games like World of Warcraft have the children hard coded to be unattackable.

[Kanthalion]

Really? Where did it say that? Well, alright then, I can wait...

It didn't. I was speculating.

[Calemyr]

You guys are jumping to the whole computer strategy RPG thing a mite quick, aren't you? The only thing that might make this appear computer-related is the summoning sequence and it's intentional similarity to Tron.

One thing that interests me is a point that was already brought up, however: Stanley greatly favors warlords that were promoted rather than created, and values charisma above most other virtues. What makes this interesting to me is that it reflects himself and his own rise to power. I almost envision that Stanley was promoted to Warlord only to discover that the leadership couldn't find its ass with it's own two hands, ultimately convincing his pre-toolship that power should be granted to talent rather than birthright.

That belief alone would have earned him the ire of foreign nobles. The fact that he sees it his holy quest to gather the mythical implements of creation to his side by whatever force necessary just gave them the proper excuse.

[SteveMB]

You guys are jumping to the whole computer strategy RPG thing a mite quick, aren't you? The only thing that might make this appear computer-related is the summoning sequence and it's intentional similarity to Tron.

The mechanics of Erfworld are clearly parallel to those of a game (e.g. the fighting of a war in "turns"). That said, it could fit a tabletop/board game (like the one Parson was creating) as well as a computer game.

One thing that interests me is a point that was already brought up, however: Stanley greatly favors warlords that were promoted rather than created, and values charisma above most other virtues. What makes this interesting to me is that it reflects himself and his own rise to power. I almost envision that Stanley was promoted to Warlord only to discover that the leadership couldn't find its ass with it's own two hands, ultimately convincing his pre-toolship that power should be granted to talent rather than birthright.

If Erfworld mechanics includes something like a "charisma" bonus for leaders, then Stanley's selection policy makes sense -- "handsome and dashing" is a merit-based criterion. If my inference (Stanley promotes existing troops rather than buys new warlords because the latter takes more time than he can spare) and my admitted out-and-out guess (warlords produced by the former route are "green") are correct, then Stanley needs to get bonuses wherever he can find them.

[the_tick_rules]

what was his problem with the units being produced? Erfworld seems to be following the traditonal computer game rules. units don't grow up, they just walk out of their parent facility and you gotta pay for upgrades