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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Post A Different Take On Mage Hunting [PrC, PEACH]

    Spoiler: Why does this class exist?
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    Way back when I was helping out with the Mage Hunter PrC I got to thinking... there are a lot of martial anti-mage classes, aren't they? Pretty much all of them follow a loose pattern as well:

    > SR, +AC vs Spells, +Saves vs Spells, Antimagic Field
    With a few of the more effective ones also giving teleportation, some sort of freedom of movement, mental protection, etc.

    And yet, the end result is generally far less threatening than just being a caster yourself. So I thought about how one could approach the issue of being a serious threat to mages without basically becoming a gish. The WotC anti-mage martial classes certainty aren't enough, especially since they appear to assume you are in some kind of arena with the mage in question. So I started with a different approach:

    What, exactly, is a mage?

    A mage, or at least a cautious one, is sorta like a giant shelled beast that lashes out across the cosmos with its mighty tentacles (magic). If a Martial PC is going to fight a mage in a martial manner (instead of grabbing a bunch of items/spells and pretending to be a mage), it has to be able to fight the mage by attacking any part of it.

    This is because being able to find the mage and break through the shell itself really depends on optimization level - it might well be impossible to pull off martially. Some examples: Optimized Celerity + Flee. Hiding in a dimensionally locked plane while projections/minions do all the dirty work. Barrier spells. Time Manipulation. The list just goes on and on, really.

    ---

    The below class hopefully allows martial PCs to really fight spellcasters. It doesn't bother with SR, raising AC, etc - any spellcaster that would be seriously hindered by those things are likely playing pretty "fair" anyway! Seriously, the dude flinging fireballs is the least of your worries. I instead tried to craft a class that is strong vs high-op casters, useful against mid/low op casters, and maybe has some things to do against non-casters.

    There are a couple more abilities the class should probably have access to, maybe I'll make some feats.. also, if anyone can suggest a better name I'd appreciate it.


    Spell Reaper

    Spell Reapers specialize in the hunting of Mages. Specifically, the sort of mage that doesn't conveniently show up on the field of valor to fling around their fire and lighting (or die trying). No, the Reapers specialize in hunting the sort of cowardly foe that's more akin to a shelled beast, hiding in fortresses and demi-planes of their own creation while their spells and minions wreak havoc across the cosmos like so many tentacles. It is these tendrils that the Reapers hunt, and it is through them that they strike!

    ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
    Feats: Mage Slayer
    Skills: Spellcraft 4 ranks
    BAB: +5


    THE SPELL REAPER
    Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
    1 +1 +2 +0 +2 Reaperís Oath, Crippling Blows, Reaperís Sight
    2 +2 +3 +0 +3 Echoing Strike, Favored Spellcasting Enemy
    3 +3 +3 +1 +3 Unbound Step, Bonus Feat
    4 +4 +4 +1 +4 Pierce Perfection, Reaperís Cloak
    5 +5 +4 +1 +4 Improved Echoing Strike, Reaperís Sight (Greater Arcane Sight)
    6 +6 +5 +2 +5 Secured Self, Bonus Feat
    7 +7 +5 +2 +5 Mettle, Second Favored Spellcasting Enemy
    8 +8 +6 +2 +6 Severing Strike, Tear Perfection
    9 +9 +6 +3 +6 Grand Reaperís Cloak, Reaperís Sight (True Seeing), Bonus Feat
    10 +10 +7 +3 +7 Liberating Strike, Antithesis

    HD: D10

    Class skills (4 + Int modifier per level): Bluff, Climb, Craft(Any), Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge(Any), Listen, Perform, Psicraft, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble

    Class features:

    Reaperís Oath (Ex): A spell reaper cannot cast spells, use spell-like abilities, and/or use spell-trigger items.

    Crippling Blows (Ex): Any creature damaged by the spell reaper has their effective caster level for their spells and/or spell-like abilities reduced by half the spell reaperís class level + 1 (rounded down) for one round. Any spell and/or spell-like ability they attempt to cast while so effected worsens this condition, increasing the duration by another round and reducing their caster level by another level. A spellcaster suffering from this effect cannot cast any spell whose level is greater than half their caster level. This ability does not stack with itself.

    Reaperís Sight (Su): A spell reaper continually benefits as though they were under the effects of Arcane Sight, except the effect extends as far as their regular vision. Furthermore, the reaper can distinguished auras left behind by one source from those left behind by a different spellcaster. This does not automatically allow them to know the identity of the source (unless they've previously seen an aura they are confident came from their target).
    At 5th level the spell reaper likewise benefits from the effects of Greater Arcane Sight and at 9th level their sight includes the effects of the True Seeing spell (The True Seeing effect, but not the others, has a maximum range of 120').

    Echoing Strike (Su) Ė A 2nd level or higher spell reaper can strike at mages through the foul connections they use to bind others to their will. Any time a spell reaper damages a creature they may have half that damage (rounded down, minimum 1 damage), and any additional effects of the attack, also effect any creatures exercising magical control over the damaged foe. This includes dominated creatures, astral projections, controlled golems, etc. Any creatures damaged by the spell reaper may make a new saving throw against any magical effects controlling them, if applicable.
    Note: In the event of chains (creature A controls B that controls CÖ), each creature after the first (who takes full damage) takes Ĺ has much as the previous one (minimum 1). Also note that the damage need not be Lethal.

    Favored Spellcasting Enemy (Su): At 2nd level spell reaper chooses one kind of caster (Arcane, Divine, or Psionic) they specialize in hunting. This ability other works like the Ranger Favored Enemy ability, except the spell reaper may also add the bonus to their saving throws against the spells and magical abilities of their chosen foes. At 7th level the Reaper picks a second kind of castor as an additional favored enemy and increases the bonus against one of their favored spellcasting enemies (including the one just selected, if so desired) by 2. Feats, magic items, and other abilities that improve/require Favored Enemy likewise work with Favored Spellcasting Enemy. Other casting types, such as artificer infusion users, may be chosen with DM permission.

    Unbound Step (Su): Ė A 3rd level or higher spell reaper may ignore any magical effect that could not effect a creature benefiting from Freedom of Movement. Furthermore, the reaper may make a character level check (DC = 10 + Caster level of the effect) to move through any magical force effect created by a spell, spell-like ability, or magic item as though it were not there.

    Bonus Feat (Ex): Spell reapers would be unwise to let their martial skills stagnate. At 3rd level and every three levels therafter the spell reaper gains a bonus fighter feat. The reaper may add their spell reaper level - 2 to their effective fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. Furthermore, the Spell Reaper may treat choose any feat for which Mage Slayer is a prerequisite as though it were a fighter bonus feat.

    Pierce Perfection (Su): At 4th level the spell reaper learns how to overcome even the most absurd of defenses. Any creature that would be dealt damage by the spell reaper, but is instead not dealt damage for due to some form of magical protection, is effected by the reaperís class abilities as though they had been dealt damage by the spell reaper (e.g. Crippling Blows).

    Reaperís Cloak (Ex): A 4th or higher spell reaper may subtract twice their class level from any damage they would otherwise be dealt by spells and magical effects. If they would be dealt damage by a spell that does not allow a saving throw, the spell reaper may make a fortitude save (DC equivalent to what the spellís save DC would have been had it allowed one) to halve the damage before subtracting twice their class level.

    Improved Echoing Strike (Su): A 5th level or higher spell reaper can now strike at mages through the faint remnants of their disgusting works. This allows the spell reaper to attack the magical auras of spells and/or spell-like abilities (as noted in the Detect Magic spell) as though they were the caster themselves (Including AC, defensive abilities, etc). This includes lingering auras (for example, the teleport spell leaves a faint lingering aura for 1d6 minutes). Upon each successful hit the spell reaper deals damage to the caster of the spell/spell-like ability equal to one-half the amount their attack would have normally done (round down, minimum 1 damage).
    The spell reaper may choose, in the event a foe casts a spell or uses a spell-like ability in response to their attack, to change the target of their attack to the aura (lingering or otherwise) of the newly cast spell/spell-like ability instead of the caster.

    Secured Self (Ex): At 6th level a spell reaperís existence has become difficult for magic to comprehend. Any magical spells or effects that attempt to gain information regarding the spell reaper simply fail to function, and any predictions made by divination spells do not take the spell reaperís future actions into account. Spells that scan an area the reaper is in, such as a scrying effect, fail to detect/reveal the spell reaper but otherwise function normally. Furthermore, a reaper of this caliber cannot be copied (such as by Simulacrum) nor controlled/manipulated by magical effects (such as Dominate Person and Charm Monster).

    Mettle (Ex): A 7th level and higher spell reaper can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If they make a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), the spell reaper instead completely negates the effect. This includes saving throws granted by the Reaperís Cloak class feature.

    Severing Strike (Su): An 8th level or higher spell reaper learns how disrupt the workingís of their adversaries. Twice per encounter the spell reaper may enhance one of their attacks as a free action. Any creature dealt damage by this enhanced strike must make a will save (DC 10 + spell reaperís Class Level + spell reaperís Charisma modifier) finds themselves unable to target themselves with their own spells and spell-like abilities for one minute (including personal spells). Furthermore, any and all spells the effected creature could dismiss are immediately dismissed whether or not the victim passes the will save.

    Tear Perfection (Su): An 8th level or higher spell reaperís intolerance of ludicrous magical defenses reaches a fever pitch. Whenever a creature would be dealt damage by the spell reaper, but isnít due to some sort of magical protection, the creature takes half that damage (rounded down, minimum 1) anyway. This damage bypasses resistances and immunities and cannot be prevented, converted into nonlethal damage, etc.

    Grand Reaperís Cloak (Ex): A 9th or higher spell reaper may, whenever they would be directly effected by a non-damaging spell that does not allow a saving throw, make a fortitude save to ignore that spellís effects (Being energy drained is a direct effect, a wall blocking the reaper's path is not). The save DC is equivalent to what the spellís save DC would have been had it allowed one.

    Liberating Strike (Su): A 10th level or higher spell reaper masters the art of unraveling magical effects. Once per day the spell reaper may enhanced one of their attacks as a free action. Any creature damaged by the enhanced attack is effected as though a Wish spell had been used to reverse any past magical effects that could explicitly be reversed by such a spell (Such as Mind Rape). Furthermore, the effected creature(s) may make a new saving throw with a +10 bonus against any and all spells they may be suffering from (not just those exercising control over them).

    Antithesis (Su): Ė Whenever the spell reaper passes a saving throw against a spell or magical effect, the source of the effect is dealt damage equal to the spell reaperís HD. Unlike other sources of damage, damage dealt by this ability is doubled instead of halved by Echoing Strike and Improved Echoing Strike as the struggle of each victimized creature empowers the assault. Furthermore, the spell reaper can, at-will as a move action, render themselves completely imperceptible to spells and magical effects until the end of their next turn (Contingency spells cannot be triggered by the spell reaperís actions, Wish spells act as though they did not exist [teleport ?who? into the sun?], summons cannot perceive them, etc.)



    ------------------------------------------------------

    Feats for Spell Reapers

    By Your Own Hand [General]
    Prerequisite: Mage Slayer, Craft(Weaponsmithing, Bowmaking, or Armorsmithing) 8 ranks, Spellcarft 4 ranks
    You have mastered the art of the creating of magic arms and armor without needing some spellcaster to hold your hand! You have an effective caster level equal to your ranks in the relevant craft skill whenever creating such an item, and may ignore any feat or spell prerequisites besides caster level when forging such items. You may only enchant your own creations in this manner - a masterwork item crafted by another will not do. These works paradoxically share your contempt for magic - any item crafted by this feat reduces the caster level of all the spells and spell-like abilities of whoever wears/wields it by 3.
    The effective caster level granted by this feat is supernatural, not spell-like.
    Special: Taking this feat reduces your caster level for all your spells and spell-like abilities by 4. A Spell Reaper can choose this feat in place of choosing a fighter bonus feat.

    Mage-Killer's Roar [Fighter]
    Prerequisite: Mage Slayer, Intimidate 8 Ranks
    Whenever a creature attempts to cast defensively, if they can perceive your presence, you may make an intimidate check as an immediate action. The result of your intimidate check becomes the new DC of their concentration check to successfully cast defensively.
    Special:Taking this feat reduces your caster level for all your spells and spell-like abilities by 4.

    Pierce Magical Barrier [General]
    Prerequisite: Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection
    You may use your Pierce Magical Protection feat with ranged attacks. Furthermore, any attack benefiting from that feat passes through magical barriers as though they weren't there.
    Special: Taking this feat reduces your caster level for all your spells and spell-like abilities by 4.

    Pierce the Soul [General]
    Prerequisite: Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection, Pierce Magical Barrier, Base Attack Bonus +15
    Your contempt resonates with your foe's essence, imploring it to recognize how disgusting its existence truly is. Creatures you slay cannot be revived by spells and magical effects that originated from themselves (Contingent revivifies, clone spells, etc). Damage that you deal cannot be magically healed by spells and magical effects originating from the damaged creature. The afflicted's familiar, animal companion, and/or any entities magically controlled by the deceased/damaged foe count as the creature itself for the purposes of this feat.
    Special: Taking this feat reduces your caster level for all your spells and spell-like abilities by 8.

    --------------------------------------------

    Thoughts? Comments?

    Spoiler: Changelog
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    6/16/2015
    > Tweaked Favored Enemy Wording.
    > Added a few clarifications
    > Added a line allowing Spell Reaper's to pick feats that require mage slayer as though they were fighter bonus feats.
    > Moved Secured Self to 6th level and moved Improved Echoing Strike to level 5.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2015-06-16 at 11:38 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: A Different Take On Mage Hunting [PrC, PEACH]

    I feel that Mettle should come earlier, a lot earlier. They also probably need some way of following up after a Dimension Dooring/Teleporting spellcaster (Something like the Silver Key ability, maybe?). Other than that, the class is rather solid. Still won't stand a chance against a Tippy's Wizard, but then again, nothing does.

    With a proper combination (Hexblade2/Warblade4 entry?) this guy makes for a solid mage slayer.
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    Default Re: A Different Take On Mage Hunting [PrC, PEACH]

    Looks nice, but I'd give them a good reflex save as well, so they could dodge most of the fun evocation spells (cone of cold, fireball, lightning bolt)
    Come share your magical mishaps with the whole family!
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: A Different Take On Mage Hunting [PrC, PEACH]

    I wasn't sure if the class was really good (but the chassis certainly is) so I went through the class features to give my comments. Tell me what you think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Reaperís Oath (Ex): A spell reaper cannot cast spells, use spell-like abilities, and/or use spell-trigger items.
    This looks similar to the forsaker PrC without preventing the character from using, say, a magic sword. It's kind of curious that it is written as a class feature instead of a code of conduct though. All in all I'd say it's only bad if you don't get the must-have of mage hunting at relevant levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Crippling Blows (Ex): Any creature damaged by the spell reaper has their effective caster level for their spells and/or spell-like abilities reduced by half the spell reaperís class level + 1 (rounded down) for one round. Any spell and/or spell-like ability they attempt to cast while so effected worsens this condition, increasing the duration by another round and reducing their caster level by another level. A spellcaster suffering from this effect cannot cast any spell whose level is greater than half their caster level. This ability does not stack with itself.

    Reaperís Sight (Su): A spell reaper continually benefits as though they were under the effects of Arcane Sight, except the effect extends as far as their regular vision. Furthermore, the reaper can distinguished auras left behind by one source from those left behind by a different spellcaster. This does not automatically allow them to know the identity of the source (unless they've previously seen an aura they are confident came from their target).
    At 5th level the spell reaper likewise benefits from the effects of Greater Arcane Sight and at 9th level their sight includes the effects of the True Seeing spell (The True Seeing effect, but not the others, has a maximum range of 120').
    Looks good, but is there any reason the spell reaver receives Greater Arcane Sight and True Seeing in reverse order from spellcasters?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Echoing Strike (Su) Ė A 2nd level or higher spell reaper can strike at mages through the foul connections they use to bind others to their will. Any time a spell reaper damages a creature they may have half that damage (rounded down, minimum 1 damage), and any additional effects of the attack, also effect any creatures exercising magical control over the damaged foe. This includes dominated creatures, astral projections, controlled golems, etc. Any creatures damaged by the spell reaper may make a new saving throw against any magical effects controlling them, if applicable.
    Note: In the event of chains (creature A controls B that controls CÖ), each creature takes Ĺ has much as the previous one (minimum 1). Also note that the damage need not be Lethal.
    This ability is perhaps poorly worded. Does it reduce the damage by half for the direct target? I don't think it was intended to do that, but a certain reading would let that happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Favored Spellcasting Enemy (Su): At 2nd level spell reaper chooses one kind of caster (Arcane, Divine, Psionic, etc) they specialize in hunting. This ability other works like the Ranger Favored Enemy ability, except the spell reaper may also add the bonus to their saving throws against the spells and magical abilities of their chosen foes. At 7th level the Reaper picks a second kind of castor as an additional favored enemy and increases the bonus against one of their favored spellcasting enemies (including the one just selected, if so desired) by 2. Feats, magic items, and other abilities that improve/require Favored Enemy likewise work with Favored Spellcasting Enemy.
    Could you be more specific about what are the other kinds of casters? Do binders count as caster? Since this class feature is based on favored enemy, by RAW your target doesn't have to be a caster of that type as long as you think it is one, so a supertitious spell reaver who makes no difference between the kinds of magic would get the saving throw bonus all the time. This feels strange.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Unbound Step (Su): Ė A 3rd level or higher spell reaper may ignore any magical effect that could not effect a creature benefiting from Freedom of Movement. Furthermore, the reaper may make a level check (DC = 10 + Caster level of the effect) to move through any magical force effect created by a spell, spell-like ability, or magic item as though it were not there.
    By level check, do you mean character level check? Because your class level check (and class features refer to class levels unless otherwise noted) is going to be too low for this to be good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Bonus Feat (Ex): Spell reapers would be unwise to let their martial skills stagnate. At 3rd level and every three levels therafter the spell reaper gains a bonus fighter feat. The reaper may add their spell reaper level - 2 to their effective fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats.
    Is there any reason the spell reaver doesn't have access to his own list? Most of the feats he will care about for mage hunting (saving throw boosters, Skill Focus ('insert relevant mage-hunting skill'), the feats with Mage Hunter as a prerequisite, etc.) are not on the fighter list, and the feats that it does get actually make him more of a fighter-overshadower (read: warblade) than a mage hunter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Pierce Perfection (Su): At 4th level the spell reaper learns how to overcome even the most absurd of defenses. Any creature that would be dealt damage by the spell reaper, but is instead not dealt damage for due to some form of magical protection, is effected by the reaperís class abilities as though they had been dealt damage by the spell reaper (e.g. Crippling Blows).

    Reaperís Cloak (Ex): A 4th or higher spell reaper may subtract twice their class level from any damage they would otherwise be dealt by spells and magical effects. If they would be dealt damage by a spell that does not allow a saving throw, the spell reaper may make a fortitude save (DC equivalent to what the spellís save DC would have been had it allowed one) to halve the damage before subtracting twice their class level.
    Seems OK.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Secured Self (Ex): At 5th level a spell reaperís existence has become difficult for magic to comprehend. Any magical spells or effects that attempt to gain information regarding the spell reaper simply fail to function, and any predictions made by divination spells do not take the spell reaperís future actions into account. Spells that scan an area the reaper is in, such as a scrying effect, fail to detect/reveal the spell reaper but otherwise function normally. Furthermore, a reaper of this caliber cannot be copied (such as by Simulacrum) nor controlled/manipulated by magical effects (such as Dominate Person and Charm Monster).
    I dunno, why don't you just give it Mind Blank? Seems like it already does everything on the list (and more!) except the 'be copied' part.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Improved Echoing Strike (Su): A 6th level or higher spell reaper can now strike at mages through the faint remnants of their disgusting works. This allows the spell reaper to attack lingering any lingering magical auras left behind by spells and/or spell-like abilities (as noted in the Detect Magic spell) as though they were the caster themselves (Including AC, defensive abilities, etc). All damage dealt to the caster this way is halved (rounded down, minimum 1) although any additional effects of the strike effect the caster normally. The spell reaper may choose, in the event their target casts a spell or uses a spell-like ability in response to their attack, to change the target of their attack to the aura (lingering or otherwise) of the newly cast spell/spell-like ability instead of the caster.
    What is the advantage of changing target to attack an aura through another aura, may I ask? You are not even attacking the effect of the new spell (like, say, a summoned creature), you are attacking the new spell's aura. What is it for?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Mettle (Ex): A 7th level and higher spell reaper can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If they make a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), the spell reaper instead completely negates the effect. This includes saving throws granted by the Reaperís Cloak class feature.
    It comes a little late, don't you think? Also, at this level any serious mage hunter is expected to have AMF (and possibly also Dimensional Anchor), is there any reason this guy does not (like, at all)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Severing Strike (Su): An 8th level or higher spell reaper learns how disrupt the workingís of their adversaries. Twice per encounter the spell reaper may enhance one of their attacks as a free action. Any creature dealt damage by this enhanced strike must make a will save (DC 10 + spell reaperís Class Level + spell reaperís Charisma modifier) finds themselves unable to target themselves with their own spells and spell-like abilities for one minute (including personal spells). Furthermore, any and all spells the effected creature could dismiss are immediately dismissed whether or not the victim passes the will save.
    No comment here, I don't know how it'd affect gameplay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Tear Perfection (Su): An 8th level or higher spell reaperís intolerance of ludicrous magical defenses reaches a fever pitch. Whenever a creature would be dealt damage by the spell reaper, but isnít due to some sort of magical protection, the creature takes half that damage (rounded down, minimum 1) anyway. This damage bypasses resistances and immunities and cannot be prevented, converted into nonlethal damage, etc.
    Why is it that the caster's natural abilities (that aren't even the result of magic, btw) don't work against this attack? I suppose the fact it is (Su) justifies it, but I'm curious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Grand Reaperís Cloak (Ex): A 9th or higher spell reaper may, whenever they would be directly effected by a non-damaging spell that does not allow a saving throw, make a fortitude save to ignore that spellís effects (Being energy drained is a direct effect, a wall blocking the reaper's path is not). The save DC is equivalent to what the spellís save DC would have been had it allowed one.
    Just out of curiousity, why not a Will save? It doesn't make much sense to escape a Maze by being tough. It's just my opinion of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Liberating Strike (Su): A 10th level or higher spell reaper masters the art of unraveling magical effects. Once per day the spell reaper may enhanced one of their attacks as a free action. Any creature damaged by the enhanced attack is effected as though a Wish spell had been used to reverse any past magical effects that could explicitly be reversed by such a spell (Such as Mind Rape). Furthermore, the effected creature(s) may make a new saving throw with a +10 bonus against any and all spells they may be suffering from (not just those exercising control over them).
    The class ability to un-(mind)rape someone by hitting them hard may be the funniest thing I've seen in a long time, so bonus points for that. Otherwise, no comment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Antithesis (Su): Ė Whenever the spell reaper passes a saving throw against a spell or magical effect, the source of the effect is dealt damage equal to the spell reaperís HD. Unlike other sources of damage, damage dealt by this ability is doubled instead of halved by Echoing Strike and Improved Echoing Strike as the struggle of each victimized creature empowers the assault. Furthermore, the spell reaper can, at-will as a move action, render themselves completely imperceptible to spells and magical effects until the end of their next turn (Contingency spells cannot be triggered by the spell reaperís actions, Wish spells act as though they did not exist [teleport ?who? into the sun?], summons cannot perceive them, etc.)
    Um... this seems abusingly powerful and far-reaching, but I don't know if it's as good in play as it looks like on paper, so I'm not going to comment any further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Mage-Killer's Roar [Fighter]
    Prerequisite: Mage Slayer, Intimidate 8 Ranks
    Whenever a creature attempts to cast defensively, if they can perceive your presence, you may make an intimidate check as an immediate action. The result of your intimidate check becomes the new DC of their concentration check to successfully cast defensively.
    Special:Taking this feat reduces your caster level for all your spells and spell-like abilities by 4.
    Nice ability, I never thought that up before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Pierce the Soul [General]
    Prerequisite: Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection, Pierce Magical Barrier, Base Attack Bonus +15
    Your contempt resonates with your foe's essence, imploring it to recognize how disgusting its existence truly is. Creatures you slay cannot be revived by spells and magical effects that originated from themselves (Contingent revivifies, clone spells, etc). Damage that you deal cannot be magically healed by spells and magical effects originating from the damaged creature. The afflicted's familiar, animal companion, and/or any entities magically controlled by the deceased/damaged foe count as the creature itself for the purposes of this feat.
    Special: Taking this feat reduces your caster level for all your spells and spell-like abilities by 8. A Spell Reaper can choose this feat in place of choosing a fighter bonus feat.
    Also good.
    Last edited by Network; 2015-06-16 at 03:32 PM.
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    Default Re: A Different Take On Mage Hunting [PrC, PEACH]

    Whoo! Comments!
    -----

    Hrm... I'm getting the feeling that the wording of Improved Echoing Strike is confusing. Which is a big issue since it is probably the most important class feature when it comes to fighting mages. Basically, here is the idea:

    > You can attack a spell's aura to damage the mage that cast it.
    > Key Note: All spells leave lingering auras after their effect. For example, dimension door / teleport leaves an aura for 1d6 minutes. Greater teleport leaves one for 1d6x10 minutes. This class doesn't have dimensional anchor because teleporting away doesn't take the mage out of danger (at least, if they do it via spell / spell-like). On the contrary, IES implores the mage to stay and fight.
    > On Spell Reaper lacking teleportation: Wall spells leave auras. It is true that the class is kinda pushed towards ranged combat, since it lacks a way to fly, but I don't see a way to really add that. Also, if the wizard is flying above you with a regular bow out of fear of your prowess I'd sorta call that a victory.
    > The intent of the changing target effect is for when the mage uses a spell or spell-like ability to evade your attack (e.g. abrupt jaunt). This should be reworded as well.

    Edit: Among other things, I have changed the wording of Improved Echoing Strike.

    Spoiler: New Improved Echoing Strike
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    Improved Echoing Strike (Su): A 5th level or higher spell reaper can now strike at mages through the faint remnants of their disgusting works. This allows the spell reaper to attack the magical auras of spells and/or spell-like abilities (as noted in the Detect Magic spell) as though they were the caster themselves (Including AC, defensive abilities, etc). This includes lingering auras (for example, the teleport spell leaves a faint lingering aura for 1d6 minutes). Upon each successful hit the spell reaper deals damage to the caster of the spell/spell-like ability equal to one-half the amount their attack would have normally done (round down, minimum 1 damage).
    The spell reaper may choose, in the event a foe casts a spell or uses a spell-like ability in response to their attack, to change the target of their attack to the aura (lingering or otherwise) of the newly cast spell/spell-like ability instead of the caster.


    other responses:

    Spoiler: Responses!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    Looks good, but is there any reason the spell reaver receives Greater Arcane Sight and True Seeing in reverse order from spellcasters?
    Greater Arcane Sight is more inline with what the class is focused on than True Seeing. I was kinda iffy on them getting TS at all, actually, but I decided it would be better if they did.

    This ability is perhaps poorly worded. Does it reduce the damage by half for the direct target? I don't think it was intended to do that, but a certain reading would let that happen.
    I.. don't see how "also effects" could be read as "instead effects". That said, it'd be easy enough to tweak the "Note:" to specify the first creature takes full damage.

    Could you be more specific about what are the other kinds of casters? Do binders count as caster?
    Yeah, that wording needs to be more specific.. I'll think about that.

    Since this class feature is based on favored enemy, by RAW your target doesn't have to be a caster of that type as long as you think it is one
    ..the what? Is there a thread talking about this somewhere? Anyway, if it is just a problem with favored enemy ("Nono, you see everyone is a demon in disguise!") then I think I'll just leave it be. Fixing weird issues in favored enemy isn't really the intent of the class. If that is how a group runs it then there is no reason to not run this the same way.

    By level check, do you mean character level check?
    Yep, I'll specify.

    Is there any reason the spell reaver doesn't have access to his own list?
    It was mostly there to add some versatility beyond killing casters, since they may well be in a game where casters aren't that common. It does overshadow fighter (trade 2 feats for a pile of class abilities?), but it is rather hard not to overshadow fighter. At least, if you want a class to have basic competency in combat in addition to a particular thing they are really good at. I think I'll add the ability to take any feat that requires mage hunter as a pre-requisite though.

    I dunno, why don't you just give it Mind Blank? Seems like it already does everything on the list (and more!) except the 'be copied' part.
    Hrm.. mind blank might actually foil indirect divinations after all. It also hits a lot of extraordinary effects and other things I wasn't that big on handing the class, but I think I'll tweak this ability as well. I think it still might not mess with commune-like effects as it currently stands anyhow, and I'd like it to do that.

    It comes a little late, don't you think? Also, at this level any serious mage hunter is expected to have AMF
    In most situations this class would rather have its supernatural abilities than AMF, IMO. You're already crippling their spellcasting, attacking them through their minions and barriers, a level away from just ignoring their buffs... shutting off magic probably hurts you more than them. Outside of needing to defend yourself from spell spam that isn't orb-spell-based, anyway.

    I had moved mettle around a lot, as it were. It ended up there for lack of another place to put it. Although everyone seems to feel it should be earlier, maybe I'll move some stuff around again..

    Why is it that the caster's natural abilities (that aren't even the result of magic, btw) don't work against this attack? I suppose the fact it is (Su) justifies it, but I'm curious.
    Mostly because I have yet to think of a wording that would clearly allow "this is actually my race" defenses to work that couldn't be construed to allow "This is the race I am currently through magical shapeshifting" defenses to work.

    Just out of curiousity, why not a Will save? It doesn't make much sense to escape a Maze by being tough. It's just my opinion of course.
    It could be either one, really - I imagine the fort save is not escaping from the maze, it's preventing the magic from having anything to do with you in the first place. I considered both of them, went with fort because it was probably the higher save. *shrug*

    @Severing Strike: It is pretty much a super-debuff. Most buff spells are dismissible, as are all sorts of other effects the mage might be relying on. If they fail their save they can't re-buff themselves (nor use time stop) for a round.



    Anyway, I'm going to think about this for a bit, edit the class either tonight or sometime tomorrow. Thank you all for your critique!

    ---

    @Fireballs and such: Eh, the class basically has omni-energy resistance = 2x class level against all blast spells and against your favored enemy you either have +2 or +4 to your saving throw. If fireball and such are what you usually have to deal with picking "Arcane" as your main favored enemy will probably cover it. Also, blast spell users get hit hard by crippling blows.

    @Tippy Wizards: Why? I mean, is there an obvious thing I've missed here? Generally I see chain gating, astral projections, sealed planes, time shenenigans, wish-murder strategies, being literally immune to everything, masterful use of divinations, and the horrors of ice assassin. With the last two probably being the strongest, since information is king and ice assassin doubles as one of the best information gathering spells ever. Not going to try to survive the coathanger thing or stuff like the locate city bomb, true.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2015-06-16 at 11:39 PM.

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