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Thread: Erfworld 49

  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49


    AHAHAHA! Wonderful bit of very appropriate Shakespeare; followed by the battlecry of desperate and frustrated gamers everywhere: 'sploitable mechanic...


    Good job Elvis in the Playground! :D

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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    The thing is, he uses the term 'exploit' [I assume]. That to me means that he intends to use something within the game mechanics as opposed to disregarding them or acting out of turn, which to me would be a hack or cheat.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
    I'm not convinced that's what his exploit is. Has last comment is about "the little battle" which suggests that the exploit has to do with battle size. One thing I don't quite understand though is given a simple set of rules why the basic exploits wouldn't already have occurred to people who are much more familiar with Erf's physics and other rules than Parson is and have had much more time to think about them.
    Because characters in a game don't look for cheats and loopholes.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    tongue Re: Erfworld 49

    For those that might like a little analysis on the sonnet itself, check it out here.

    Or, the next sonnet:

    When in disgrace with fortune and men's eyes
    I all alone beweep my outcast state,
    And trouble deaf heaven with my bootless cries,
    And look upon myself, and curse my fate,
    Wishing me like to one more rich in hope,
    Featur'd like him, like him with friends possess'd,
    Desiring this man's art, and that man's scope,
    With what I most enjoy contented least;
    Yet in these thoughts my self almost despising,
    Haply I think on thee,-- and then my state,
    Like to the lark at break of day arising
    From sullen earth, sings hymns at heaven's gate,;
    For thy sweet love remember'd such wealth brings
    That then I scorn to change my state with kings.

    ... Any ideas on what might happen next from WS?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    I wonder - if Parson 'typed' a tilde (~) in his klog, would it open the console so he could enter cheat codes?

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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Y'know, I think the positioning of the lines are telling us something about the characters, with the line about torture over Wanda, and the line about grief over Jillian. I wonder what it's saying about Parson and Ansom?
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    he Has A Plan!!! I Can't Wait Until Saturday!!
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    !!!

    I see how Parson is going to exploit this.

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    What we know so far:
    1.) In the 'little battle', Ansom split his forces into fliers and nonfliers.
    2.) Fliers can only be attacked by other flying units when over dense forest, moutains, etc.
    3.) The basic unit of Erfworld is the 'stack', comprising up to eight individual 'models'.

    Exploit:
    Unlike Ansom, Parson doesn't split his forces into fliers and non-fliers.

    Parson creats a stack containing at least one flying unit. That stack, should it be in dense forest, mountains, or over water, can only be attacked by other fliers because it contains a flying unit.
    Last edited by ChiefDesigner; 2007-04-26 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Fixing tags

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Quote Originally Posted by lordsilverthorn View Post
    I wonder - if Parson 'typed' a tilde (~) in his klog, would it open the console so he could enter cheat codes?
    Aha, but what cheat codes would he input? Black Sheep Wall? Power Overwhelming? Operation Cwal?

    Still, a really good comic--the Shakespeare quote was really nicely done, and kinda gave the suggestion that maybe Miss Zamussels isn't being manipulated as much as Wanda thinks.

    Also, I think Parson really needs to find the User's Manual or Strategy Guide for this game.
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    I wonder if people don't continue fighting at night because of movement restraints... That would give Parson a decided advantage if he isn't restricted by movement limitations, right?

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Gurrella Warfare is a spanish term. The word Gurrella originally means 'Little War'. This speaks to me of using the same tactics that won USA it's independence. The British troops marched out, all nice and pretty in their formations. The Americans started sniping anyone with a funny hat from the treelines. Mind you, they learned it from the Native Americans during the French/Indian war, who developed it independantly from Spain who invented it to keep people out of their land.

    The other thing could be the old saying 'Defeat in Detail'. Force your opponent to split his troops until they break down into managable sized chunks for you to take down, one at a time.

    A Shakespearean Sonnet he may want to remember, though...

    The painful warrior famoused for fight,
    After a thousand victories once foiled,
    Is from the book of honour razed quite,
    And all the rest forgot for which he toiled
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefDesigner View Post
    !!!

    I see how Parson is going to exploit this.

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    What we know so far:
    1.) In the 'little battle', Ansom split his forces into fliers and nonfliers.
    2.) Fliers can only be attacked by other flying units when over dense forest, moutains, etc.
    3.) The basic unit of Erfworld is the 'stack', comprising up to eight individual 'models'.

    Exploit:
    Unlike Ansom, Parson doesn't split his forces into fliers and non-fliers.

    Parson creats a stack containing at least one flying unit. That stack, should it be in dense forest, mountains, or over water, can only be attacked by other fliers because it contains a flying unit.
    I'm not sure.

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    The logical (okay, logical by the real world) reason for only being attackable by fliers due to terrain is that the terrain is impassible to ground based troops. Also, when the attack happens, the combat will be between Parson's few fliers and Ansom's full stack of fliers. (This assumes, of course, that 'attack' is reciprocal, which it need not be: ground troops may be capable of defending.)

    ... and then you drop the One Ring into Mt. Doom and win.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Awesome. It was nice to see how the day dwellers (if the could be called that) go to sleep and the night ones come out as if on some sort of cycle...what a genius mind that continues to create the unimaginable precipice!

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    an exploit that the units in the game use, is no longer a exploit it's a feature.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrofly View Post
    The exploits wouldn't occur to them because they don't think of them as "expoits". To Parson, this is a game world, with rules that can be exploited. To the people of Erf, this is THE world and it's rules are hard and fast ways of life.
    Irrelevant. In the real world we don't think of the laws of physics as being game rules to be exploited. That doesn't stop people from researching new technology and generals making new tactics. Sometimes those tactics are so revolutionary or clever they would very likely look like exploits to someone from a different universe.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    OHhhh..Parson figured something out, now we will see Kick ass
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
    One thing I don't quite understand though is given a simple set of rules why the basic exploits wouldn't already have occurred to people who are much more familiar with Erf's physics and other rules than Parson is and have had much more time to think about them.
    Natives don't think the way Parson does; it's a paradigm shift they haven't made.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    ...if the cycle of turns is the primary time measurement of Erfworld, successfully attempting to start Stanley's turn early may simply cause the sun to rise at that time and the turn to proceed normally from there.
    Agreed. If I recall correctly, the sun didn't set until Ansom specifically ordered that the turn be ended once Jillian arrived.

    I like ChiefDesigner's idea. Everyone else is thinking of mechanics which could be exploited for every battle, not things which are just useful in the upcoming battle. Remember that this can't be a universally game-breaking find for Parson or Erfworld would be a very short comic as he quickly takes over the world.
    Work in progress.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatum479 View Post
    Agreed. If I recall correctly, the sun didn't set until Ansom specifically ordered that the turn be ended once Jillian arrived.

    I like ChiefDesigner's idea. Everyone else is thinking of mechanics which could be exploited for every battle, not things which are just useful in the upcoming battle. Remember that this can't be a universally game-breaking find for Parson or Erfworld would be a very short comic as he quickly takes over the world.
    It could be major game break. Parson's enemies will just start using it also.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Quote Originally Posted by Maerad of Pellinor View Post
    Dwagons sleep in trees! :D
    Of course they do. That way their safe from attack by anything but other flyers!
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Quote Originally Posted by the_tick_rules View Post
    wanda sleeping with skulls. that's cute and morbid simultaneously, only thing that made this strip worth it. that shakespere thing made nearly no sense.
    Read it through a couple more times; the syntax starts to make sense after a while.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambi-sinister View Post
    Y'know, I think the positioning of the lines are telling us something about the characters, with the line about torture over Wanda, and the line about grief over Jillian. I wonder what it's saying about Parson and Ansom?
    Edit: Hmmm... separating the lines from the original referents and context of the sonnet and reading each section independently with an eye toward its application to the associated character:

    The four lines over Parson describe being harried, one's sleep troubled by the problems of the day and one's day troubled in turn by lack of proper rest. That certainly fits Parson's situation.

    The "enemies to either's reign" in the lines over Wanda would fit her and Jillian being on opposite sides of the war, and "in consent" has an obvious connection to the notion that there's more to their relationship than Wanda simply using Jillian.

    Edit: It may be significant that Wanda is the only one of the four who is (perhaps) sleeping peacefully.

    The lines over Ansom describe speaking of the day as "bright" notwithstanding the fact that "clouds do blot the heavens" -- an implication that his prospects are not as bright as he believes?

    The lines over Jillian are perhaps the most straightforward of all, speaking of persistent and worsening sorrow and grief. She seems to feel something for Ansom, but won't act on it; she may be getting something other than exploitation from Wanda, but the exploitation is definitely present, and painful.
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-04-26 at 09:37 PM. Reason: Clarification

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Okay, interesting notes...

    >This page implies Stanley has a heck of a lot more dwagons than some of us thought

    >The Archons aren't resting -- they're hovering.
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    The Shakespeare sonnet and Jillian at the campfire made me think of the campfire scene in Henry V. Which fits quite nicely, because it's addressing the doubts and fears and hopes of the various people involved right before a major battle.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Quote Originally Posted by Runolfr View Post
    Natives don't think the way Parson does; it's a paradigm shift they haven't made.
    I think you are correct, but i suspect it goes further than that. The people of Erf World are part of the system - they are part of a game mechanic that they are physically and mentally incapable of working outside of. Think of the agents from the Matrix series - as powefull as they were, everything they did conformed to the rules of the world into which they had been programmed. it was those who hacked into the system from outside who could exploit loopholes and quirks.

    I don't even pretend to know what the loophole or quirk is that parson has figured out. I'm looking forward to reading on to find out!

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    A few things... I've been critical of Erfworld since its start, so why stop now?

    The second line of the sonnet as quoted in the comic has an error. THERE IS NO CHARACTER BETWEEN THE E AND THE D.

    The word in that second line should, strictly speaking according to the rules for updating English from the 1600s, be written as "debarr'd." In recent times, we've given up on pronouncing the -ed suffix on a verb as in the word "red" and have elected to simply pronounce most or all of them as if they were spelled with the apostrophe which prevents the syllable from being pronounced. Aged, and a few others, are the throwback exceptions.

    If you're going to quote the Bard, get it right.

    On another note, I tend to think ChiefD might be onto something there. There're a number of possibly exploitable mechanics which would have been revealed in the course of the attempt to decapitate the opposing force, and that's certainly a possibility. There are others of course.
    Spoiler
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    For example, if Parson's able to stage a stack of 7 melee anti-air units and put a flyer on the same square, perhaps he can draw the opposition's air units into a crushing defeat - of course this hinges on different attack vs defense values, potential synergy bonuses between unit types and so forth. Or perhaps he can put multiple stacks in the same area and use a bunch of infantry to defend the area against incoming flyers lured to a single dwagon. In any case my interest is piqued as to whether we've already received the clues we'd need to decipher the exploit, or whether it's predicated on something we've not yet been told. If it's based on what we know, the flyer defense thing almost has to be part of it. Otherwise, sky's the limit.


    In terms of why the Erfworlders haven't thought of whatever it is, that's obvious. They live in the box, and their capabilities are defined thereby. As a result, if they're even capable of thinking outside it, that capability is limited. Parson comes from outside and is familiar with a society where gamers habitually exploit rulesets, so not only is he capable of thinking outside the box, he's bound to have some insight into typical design flaws which the Erfworlders simply aren't capable of developing - at least until he's demonstrated it for them.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    Quote Originally Posted by Maerad of Pellinor View Post
    Dwagons sleep in trees! :D
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    For Parson's sake, I hope we don't get to witness him explaining his plan before he actually executes it. If we see him explain it in excruciating detail first, then we KNOW it's not going to work. Basic "law" of dramatic fiction. ;)

    Also, I happened to enjoy the poetic transition. Nice touch, and unexpected.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    I love the detail of parson drooling in his sleep.


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    Default Re: Erfworld 49

    That's a lot of dwagons.
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