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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Making fumbles fun!

    In my gaming group we have used fumbles since time immemorial. Typically nat 1 attack roll is a chance for fumble, after which the potential fumbler must pass a very low DC reflex save, 5 or 10 depending on the opponent. Esssentially you have to roll two 1's in a row, or have a truly tragic reflex save to confirm a critical failure. The effect of a fumble is to suffer an immediate attack of opportunity from the opponent you were attacking. This handily passes the room full of practice dummies test since dummies don't take attacks of opportunity.

    SOMETIMES, the enemy misses. Sometimes she chooses not to attack. Sometimes, she has already used her AoO. But getting hit an extra time just kinda blows and does not really make the combat more exciting or interesting for martials.

    Therefore I propose the following fumble table, which I would construe as satisfying the convention of using fumble rules, for any of the various reasons that people use fumbles, and which addresses all the sundry concerns about critical fumbles, with only one noteworthy exception.

    Spoiler: Fmbules!
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    The DM selects an appropriate fumble from the following list, or rolls randomly to determine the mishap. If an inappropriate fumble is rolled, e.g. an armor accident on an unarmored character, roll again.
    d6 Fumble Player chooses option 1 OR option 2
    1 Weapon Woes You drop your weapon. Your opponent may make an immediate sunder attempt against your weapon. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
    2 Faulty Footwork You trip and fall prone. You remain upright but are disoriented. You count as dazed and flat-footed until your next turn.
    3 Stuttered Swing Your opponent may make an immediate disarm attempt against you. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Re-roll your attack as if you were attempting to subdue (-4 to-hit and nonlethal damage). You provoke an attack of opportunity from this foe.
    4 Armor Accident You suffer a -4 penalty to AC until your next turn Your movement is reduced by 10' until you spend a move action fixing your armor.
    5 Target Trouble Re-roll your attack against a different target. Select randomly from valid targets Re-roll your attack as a sunder, disarm, or trip attempt. This provokes an attack of opportunity even if you would not normally provoke due to a feat, class feature, etc.
    6 Position Problem Take a 5' step to any unoccupied square. This counts as your 5' step if you have not yet used one. Remain in your square but take -2 to AC until your next turn



    These are arranged from worst to less bad. Each incorporates elements of risk versus reward and tactical discretion; for example, against an opponent who has already used his attack(s) of opportunity, provoking one is of little consequence. Conversely, an opponent who uses his AoO against you may not be able to use it against your allies later that round.

    Furthermore, although players make more attack rolls than any given monster, the sum of all monsters the PC's fight collectively make more attacks than any one given player. This means that the players will also benefit from the fumble table in making certain risk-free attacks they might otherwise not choose to make.

    FINALLY! A fumble table that gives martial characters interesting things to do on their turn, pulse-pounding choices to make which might actually influence the outcome of a combat, and exciting interludes between monotonous rounds of "I deal X damage to Y creature."
    Last edited by P.F.; 2015-06-21 at 08:01 PM.
    "But what of those to whom life is not an ocean, and man-made laws are not sand-towers ... What of the cripple who hates dancers? What of the ox who loves his yoke and deems the elk and deer of the forest stray and vagrant things? ... What shall I say of these save that they too stand in the sunlight, but with their backs to the sun? They see only their shadows, and their shadows are their laws. And what is the sun to them but a caster of shadows?"
    —Kahlil Gibran
    (avatar ibid)

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    paranoidbox's Avatar

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    Default Re: Making fumbles fun!

    This still punishes the TWF 20th level martial class more than anyone else.

    I think you...
    ( •_•)
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    (⌐■_■)
    fumbled.
    Last edited by paranoidbox; 2015-06-21 at 07:20 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Making fumbles fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by paranoidbox View Post
    This still punishes the TWF 20th level martial class more than anyone else.
    The Cuissinard-build already has so many problems it hardly matters, but it's worth thinking about I suppose. It enhances verisimilitude, as dual-wielding is more than twice as difficult as single-weapon fighting. Also, compared to "I hit a lot of times for lots of damage," the 20th level TWFfer would have more new and interesting choices than other melee-type characters, so there's that as well.

    Is there a simple mechanic that preserves the fun of having (on average) a fumble or two in each session, without having a disproportionate effect on aficionados of the gnome hooked hammer?
    "But what of those to whom life is not an ocean, and man-made laws are not sand-towers ... What of the cripple who hates dancers? What of the ox who loves his yoke and deems the elk and deer of the forest stray and vagrant things? ... What shall I say of these save that they too stand in the sunlight, but with their backs to the sun? They see only their shadows, and their shadows are their laws. And what is the sun to them but a caster of shadows?"
    —Kahlil Gibran
    (avatar ibid)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Making fumbles fun!

    1) Weapon on a string
    2) Skill trick to get up as swift action without provoking
    3) Unarmed/Weapon on an adamantine string
    4) #deal with it
    5) Nothing
    6) Oh no... my 5ft step...

    So you either screwed with the poor mundanes, or you just introduced extra resource tax for them. Bravo.


    Quote Originally Posted by P.F. View Post
    Is there a simple mechanic that preserves the fun of having (on average) a fumble or two in each session, without having a disproportionate effect on aficionados of the gnome hooked hammer?
    Umm... preserves the fun of having mundanes screwed over by a mechanic that technically exists for mages too but who dont care as much about it?

    Throw a disjunction at the party every so often. If mundanes fail, they now cant fly, see or touch any ghosts, resist magic, and so on.
    If mages fail, they shrug, and recast their buffs.

    There! I preserved the fun of applying the same mechanic to casters and non casters while not ACTUALLY inconveniencing the casters.
    Last edited by Renen; 2015-06-21 at 07:51 PM.
    Thanks to Kurien for drawing my avatar, and NightWolf16a for coloring it.

    Spoiler: The master lurker
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Making fumbles fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by Renen View Post
    Oh no... the poor mundanes
    I guess that's really what it comes down to, isn't it. :-\
    "But what of those to whom life is not an ocean, and man-made laws are not sand-towers ... What of the cripple who hates dancers? What of the ox who loves his yoke and deems the elk and deer of the forest stray and vagrant things? ... What shall I say of these save that they too stand in the sunlight, but with their backs to the sun? They see only their shadows, and their shadows are their laws. And what is the sun to them but a caster of shadows?"
    —Kahlil Gibran
    (avatar ibid)

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Making fumbles fun!

    Take a shot on a one, that'll make things interesting. I do feel sorry for two weapon fighters, though.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Making fumbles fun!

    Every time a mundane rolls a 1, a caster in his group looses a spell slot.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Maglubiyet's Avatar

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    Default Re: Making fumbles fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by P.F. View Post
    Is there a simple mechanic that preserves the fun of having (on average) a fumble or two in each session, without having a disproportionate effect on aficionados of the gnome hooked hammer?
    You could always re-roll the attack after a natural 1. On a FAILED attack for the re-roll it's a fumble (a successful re-roll attack is still a miss, just not a fumble). That way you lower the odds of a fumble and it's reduced proportionate to skill/chance-to-hit.

    We used something similar for crits in an older version of D&D. On a natural 20 you re-roll your attack. If you HIT on the re-roll, it's a critical hit (a missed re-roll is still just a normal hit).

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Making fumbles fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by iDesu View Post
    Take a shot on a one, that'll make things interesting. I do feel sorry for two weapon fighters, though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grooke View Post
    Every time a mundane rolls a 1, a caster in his group looses a spell slot.
    Because of the cursing/blasphemies that the mundane utters when he screws up, maybe? I could at least put that in as one of the options. That would really add some fun and interesting choices for mundanes. Hmm, do I want to take an AoO or have someone else lose a spell they obviously aren't even casting ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Maglubiyet View Post
    You could always re-roll the attack after a natural 1. On a FAILED attack for the re-roll it's a fumble (a successful re-roll attack is still a miss, just not a fumble). That way you lower the odds of a fumble and it's reduced proportionate to skill/chance-to-hit.
    Yeah, but this still leaves the ones with the most attacks taking the most funbles. I had thought maybe a hard cap of no more than one fumble per ... something, but even that still means that the gnomish canopener will have a funble time interval whereas the half-orc ugly-stick with an identical attack bonus will still suffer only about half as many. And it feels a bit hokey to limit it that way. Same with an explicit exception for dual-wielders.
    "But what of those to whom life is not an ocean, and man-made laws are not sand-towers ... What of the cripple who hates dancers? What of the ox who loves his yoke and deems the elk and deer of the forest stray and vagrant things? ... What shall I say of these save that they too stand in the sunlight, but with their backs to the sun? They see only their shadows, and their shadows are their laws. And what is the sun to them but a caster of shadows?"
    —Kahlil Gibran
    (avatar ibid)

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Maglubiyet's Avatar

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    Default Re: Making fumbles fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by P.F. View Post
    Yeah, but this still leaves the ones with the most attacks taking the most fumbles. I had thought maybe a hard cap of no more than one fumble per ... something, but even that still means that the gnomish canopener will have a funble time interval whereas the half-orc ugly-stick with an identical attack bonus will still suffer only about half as many. And it feels a bit hokey to limit it that way. Same with an explicit exception for dual-wielders.
    What about you can only fumble on your lowest BAB attack? It's the one that's the most rushed, taking the least effort/concentration, so the easiest to flub up. That equalizes it so that everyone can only fumble maximum once per round. And a natural 1 is going to be the furthest from actually hitting the target for the lowest BAB.

    Add only-fumble-on-a-reroll rule and it becomes even less common.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Making fumbles fun!

    Before reading this post I could say that I had never found a fumble rule that I liked.

    But after reading the OP's fumble mechanics, and after giving it a little thought and being totally honest with myself...

    I still hate fumble rules, without exception.

    I have never met, nor even heard of, a single player who found the absence of fumble rules to be a deal breaker or a reason to quit a game.

    I have, however, met players who find the presence of fumble rules to be a deal breaker.

    Suspend your fumble rules for... three sessions. See how many players you lose.

    I'd play a game with fumble rules. I would make it clear that I don't like fumble rules at Session Zero and then give it a rest. But I would play the game in spite of the fumble rules, not because of them.

    Fumble rules are a drag. Always have been. Always will be.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Angel in the Playground Moderator
     
    Haruki-kun's Avatar

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    Default Re: Making fumbles fun!

    The Winged Mod: As there are several threads on discussing Fumbles now on this very forum, I'm going to start closing a few in favor of the older threads, to adhere to the One Thread, One Topic policy. Please feel free to carry on this discussion this in this thread.

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