Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

[Grim Portent]

In a Black Crusade game what's the best way to treat Dreadnoughts and PC marines in everyones' opinion? I'm wanting to port them in from Deathwatch as several of my favorite literary Chaos Marines are dreadnoughts.

I'm mostly torn between treating them similar to Possessed, where the character broadly speaking abandons the chance of Daemonic Ascension in favour of being more immediately potent and able to aid the rest of the party but will ultimately lose themselves to the madness common to the entombed* or having them just suffer a big Infamy hit but still be able to claw up to an Ascension.


*Where a possessed dies upon hitting Corruption 100 and the daemon bursts out I was thinking Dreadnoughts would become insane NPCs on 100 but still be able to be harnessed and used as an attack dog if the party can bludgeon it into submission and point it at enemies.

[lightningcat]

In a Black Crusade game what's the best way to treat Dreadnoughts and PC marines in everyones' opinion? I'm wanting to port them in from Deathwatch as several of my favorite literary Chaos Marines are dreadnoughts.

I'm mostly torn between treating them similar to Possessed, where the character broadly speaking abandons the chance of Daemonic Ascension in favour of being more immediately potent and able to aid the rest of the party but will ultimately lose themselves to the madness common to the entombed* or having them just suffer a big Infamy hit but still be able to claw up to an Ascension.


*Where a possessed dies upon hitting Corruption 100 and the daemon bursts out I was thinking Dreadnoughts would become insane NPCs on 100 but still be able to be harnessed and used as an attack dog if the party can bludgeon it into submission and point it at enemies.

I like the idea, there is mention of chaos dreadnaughts having to be chained down when not in battle. Although, if they have high enough Infamy at that point, they could instead "Ascend" into some kind of demon-engine, which are just as insane by human standards.

[Marlowe]

Well, our sneaky, stealthy rescue mission went off almost without a hitch, save for one awkward door and on nameless Skitarii idiot who just would NOT give up on the idea that we were there to loot the armoury OR to start shooting our own allies.

There was no murder or violence, just problem-solving, rescuing, and healing.

Yeah, Szofiya was very upset afterwards and claimed to feel dirty.

Fortunately the climactic fight of the mission involved us putting together a mad-max-style improvised mechanised assault on someone's party using stolen speeders and Jenny as close air support. Szofiya got to storm-bolter the planetary Marshal from the air! Our face got shot in the face, then returned fire with our looted heavy stubber and turned the sniper to mulch. It all went very well. We will be using hallucinogen grenades again.

Currently engaged in the act of looting as much cool gear as we can. It looks like the Marshal's heavy power armour is a right-off but we might be able to salvage his storm bolter and shock weapon.

[Tokuhara]

So my GM decided we're playing Rogue Trader. He also said "Roll your Homeworld and Role randomly." I somehow got a Tech Priest from Maccabeus Quintus. I have no earthly idea how to play him. Please help

[Wraith]

Maccabeus Quintus is a Shrine World - what that means is, some great event of religious significance happened there and it is now a site of pilgrimage for all of those in the Imperial Cult. The people there are highly religious, believing themselves blessed to live on a world touched by a miracle and, therefore, the God-Emperor Himself.

Tech Priests, however, belong to a separate cult who worship the Emperor not as the supreme human being but instead as the Omnissiah; the Machine God, through whom all technology is miraculous, and to be hoarded and protected lest it be profaned by "hereteks" who would misuse or alter it in a way that goes against His divine plan.

So what I'm hearing is, you're a VERY devout follower of the Emperor, whose faith manifested by joining the Cult Mechanicus. The Omnissiah has personally visited your homeworld - maybe that's why you sought to become one of his Priests? You know that he is the undisputed God of Mankind, how better to prove your loyalty to Him than to learn how to protect and maintain his most holy of artifacts?

Or maybe it's less benevolent - that you loved the Emperor but happened to have the knack for technology and were snatched up by the Tech Priests and forcibly indoctrinated into their non-standard Cult? Maybe that left you despising your calling, yearning to maintain your humanity and remain as the Emperor made you? or perhaps it goes the other way, and you hate the weak, fleshy human that you used to be and now want to get as far away from that as possible through bionic implants and mechanical augmentation?

Either way, religion is you character's most obvious theme. Play it up or twist it as you like, but it seems a logical step

[Grim Portent]

I think one of the Dark Heresy supplements had an optional starting advance for Tech Priests which had them invert their normal faith somewhat, viewing the Emperor as the proper interpretation of the Emperor/Omnissiah duo and by extension favouring the Imperial methods of worship over the Mechanicus ones.

They still revered machines, but they secretly prayed to the Emperor in the ways decreed as correct by the Imperial Creed rather than praying to the Omnissiah as dictated by the Mechanicus. They were shunned by the Mechanicus as a result.

Explorators (the tech priest class from RT) are both esteemed and viewed with suspicion by the Mechanicus, often they were forced into the role due to Mechanicus political machinations essentially exiling troublesome tech priests into service elsewhere to keep them out of the way.

Combining the two ideas we get a Tech-Priest who was raised as a devout follower of the God Emperor and who clung to that faith even while being inducted into the Mechanicus. Unable to fully hide their Imperial sympathies they were eventually exiled by their superiors who dumped them onto a Rogue Trader house to get them out of their sight in a way less likely to cause trouble than outright killing them would.

From there you act much like you normally would as an Explorator, but with the Emperor subbing in for the Machine God and a bit of Missionary like behaviour added in if you feel comfortable preaching the Imperial Creed. Maybe take some alternate ranks that give you more religious/social skills.

[Tokuhara]

So in short, I'm in for some seriously sick RP. Granted, the rest of my party is a mess (a Noble Adept who decided to focus his attention on Military, a Feral World Astropath and a Mind Cleansed Arbiter) and we're getting dang near stripped of gear (no armor or weapons) and starting on a death world we crashed into. "Fun"

Edit: to explain the Arbiter and the Adept, our GM despises the Xenos/Renegade options, so he added paths from Dark Heresy that don't have a 1:1 analogue in Rogue Trader. The IG explanation is that we were tasked to assist a Lord Inquisitor, but his ship got rekt in the Warp and we dropped out and crashed onto the Death World. Our Session 1 is us coming to on said Death World, salvaging what we can from the ship, and trying to survive until plot happens

[LeSwordfish]

Alternatively, just play the sensible rational (by his own stabdards) constantly surrounded by zealous idiots.

[The Glyphstone]

This sounds more like a Dark Heresy game than a Rogue Trader game overall, really. Strip away your gear and your gigantic personal spaceship and a RT crew just becomes a DH acolyte squad with +5 to all their stats.

[Tokuhara]

This sounds more like a Dark Heresy game than a Rogue Trader game overall, really. Strip away your gear and your gigantic personal spaceship and a RT crew just becomes a DH acolyte squad with +5 to all their stats.

He may have uttered the phrase "The Imperium doesn't give a starship to every joker in the Galaxy. You have to earn it"

[Destro_Yersul]

He may have uttered the phrase "The Imperium doesn't give a starship to every joker in the Galaxy. You have to earn it"

I would argue that he doesn't understand to point of Rogue Trader very well, then. Two of the core conceits are: A) the PCs are special, a cut above the rest by virtue of the Rogue Trader has a Warrant, and B) the party has a starship.

[Incorrect]

Thats like playing dark heresy, but in stead of acolytes everyone is a guardsman. You are in an active war zone, and get your orders from a imperial army captain. Your mission is to shoot everyone that looks different.

But, I would be positive, its probably just an introduction that ends with you getting a super cool space ship.

[Destro_Yersul]

Thats like playing dark heresy, but in stead of acolytes everyone is a guardsman. You are in an active war zone, and get your orders from a imperial army captain. Your mission is to shoot everyone that looks different.

To be fair, that's how the All Guardsman Party started, and we all know how awesome that turned out to be.

[Sinewmire]

He may have uttered the phrase "The Imperium doesn't give a starship to every joker in the Galaxy. You have to earn it"

My Rogue Trader campaign started with a legal battle between siblings, the Ecclesiarchy and some imposters all claiming to be the true heirs to the Rogue Trader charter.
The alliance/enemy making, backstabbing, character assassination, actual assassination etc. gave the players a chance to nail down their characters, and then, once they'd won the charter, all sorts of people came out of the woodwork to lend them money etc. so they could buy their Voidship, and refit it during play.

That's fine for an introduction.

That said, I made it clear this was a prologue, and they *would* get their ship quite soon.

See where this goes.

On the other hand, I've also played a Rogue Trader game that was, basically, Dark Heresy as our ship wasn't ours to work on and use, instead it just took us from place to place like the Fast Travel menu.

So far it could go either way, but I wouldn't declare exterminatus just because session 1 wasn't what was expected

[LCP]

Alternatively, just play the sensible rational (by his own stabdards) constantly surrounded by zealous idiots.

+1

The Omnipontifex of the Cathedral Most Sacrosanct still probably needs someone to fix his space telephone. I'd play Scruffy the Techjanitor any day.

[Tokuhara]

And from my party, I'm apparently Mr. Sensible. The Arbiter is a borderline sociopath, the Adept is incompetent, and our Psyker is a rabid dog who can shoot beams from his hands. I'm the voice of reason, as of the Prologue session (we went through the crash scenario, and my Tech Priest was the one going "stop being stupid")

[Wraith]

You are, pretty much, the "Mr.Spock" of the crew, except that instead of "Logic" you have "the Omnissiah".

ERROR: The Omnissiah dictates that this course of action has only a 15.073% chance of success, Captain.

[The Glyphstone]

If only one of your team is a borderline sociopath, that's still significantly above average for a DH game.

[Demon 997]

I'd say an intro session or two before you get a ship, so as to learn one new system at a time, makes some sense. But not having gear is just sort of punishing.

Any recommendations on how to play the Senschal role? Any skills or talents to aim for, critical gear, what have you? I'm playing a noble born, aiming for ultra high fellowship and social skills, connections to all the right people, etc.

[Incorrect]

Any recommendations on how to play the Senschal role? Any skills or talents to aim for, critical gear, what have you? I'm playing a noble born, aiming for ultra high fellowship and social skills, connections to all the right people, etc.

Secrets are your weapons.
Social skills, and knowledge skills to get background info on everyone.

Essential gear could be communications, to blackmail a magos on the other side of the planet.
General spy gear; recording devices, and so on.
Maybe you carry no obvious weapons, or just an ornamental sabre. Only digi-weapons, a sword-cane, cod-piece-flamer, and an atomic self destructing servo skull.

[Sinewmire]

Any recommendations on how to play the Senschal role? Any skills or talents to aim for, critical gear, what have you? I'm playing a noble born, aiming for ultra high fellowship and social skills, connections to all the right people, etc.

Finance. It can drastically increase the likelihood of getting items, and that can make you very popular.

Peer talents and all the other obvious stuff is good too.

Don't forget you can buy people - one of my players took a unit of 300 soldiers as one of his initial acquisitions as a personal bodyguard. Like grenades or ammo, the purchase price includes upkeep.

[Graysire]

So, I'm trying to DM some Dark Heresy/Only War stuff and I really want to use 'Nids, but Deathwatch has all the stats for tyranids.
How well do those stats represent tyranids in your guys' opinion, and how could I make them fit the lower power scale of Dark Heresy and Only War?

[Destro_Yersul]

There are stats for Genestealers in Creatures Anathema, and stats for other nids scattered across assorted other books, but you're right that the majority are in Deathwatch. The main difference from the Deathwatch 'Stealers is that they have higher Strength, Toughness and Agility, but don't have Unnatural Strength or Unnatural Toughness. If you want to use 'Stealers, I'd suggest taking the DW statblock and knocking off Unnat S and Unnat T. Hormagaunts and Termagaunts strike me as perfectly reasonable opponents on their own.

[Graysire]

What about things like Tyranid Warriors? They seem a bit ridiculously tough to put against anything short of Astartes(with Astartes Bolters of course, not the downgraded ones in later books)

[Aneurin]

There's Warrior, Gaunt and 'Stealer stats scaled for Only War in, ugh, Saving Solace? I think? One of the one-shot convention modules FFG published about Hive Solace. I forget the exact name.

For a lot of the higher organisms, though, DW stats are probably fine. It's not like you'd really expect a bunch of pistol-wielding acolytes to take down a Hive Tyrant or a Carnifex. Or a squad of random Guard to do anything other than die horribly against a Broodlord or Lictor. Killing them is less about 'we have a big enough gun' and more 'we need to think our way out of this!' so their actual stats are largely irrelevant.

[LeSwordfish]

Yeah - my instinct is that a party of DH PCs could probably take on a small number of gaunts, but that anything above that - from a genestealer up, really - is a problem solved by running away.

[Graysire]

As Unnatural Agility increases Agility Bonus, does it also increase speed or is that solely the province of Unnatural Speed?

[Aneurin]

As Unnatural Agility increases Agility Bonus, does it also increase speed or is that solely the province of Unnatural Speed?

In DH 1e, RT and DW it is solely the province of Unnatural Speed. In BC, OW and DH2e Unnatural Agility also increases move speed, and Unnatural Speed no longer exists.

[Sinewmire]

I'd say the DW Tyranid Stats represent the Tyranids very well.

A DH party shouldn't be taking the big guys on in combat unless they're backed up with some serious gear and support, that's not what a bunch of Acolytes are for.

If they're part of an Inquisition Strike team doing something risky, like kidnapping a Synapse creature, then they need some real backup, like maybe the Deathwatch, or a platoon of soldiers and some tanks.

It could be fun having the party *fleeing* one of the larger creatures, though, lots of near misses and tearing apart of cover, like the Alien Queen hunting Newt.

[Lord Torath]

Are there any rules/stats for the Nemesis Force Weapons used by Grey Knights?