Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

[Lord Torath]

Other Question: Mark of the Xenos (p37) gives Lictors both the Size (Hulking) and Size (Enormous) traits. Anyone know which one is correct?

The Rising Tempest adventure only has Size (Hulking) in the Lictor description included. I seem to remember a "Death Leaper" or "Leaper" lictor detailed somewhere, but I can't track it down (those pesky lictors are so hard to track!) Anyone remember where they appeared?

Edit: The opening paragraph about Lictors in Mark of the Xenos (p37) says they are as tall as Tyranid Warriors, which are Enormous. Raveners, the burrowing, snake-bodied, version of tyranid warriors (with a move speed WAY to fast for a snake - seriously, there's a reason the land speed record is set by a quadruped, while the fastest snake - the Black Mamba - has a top speed of a whopping 12 mph or 19 km/hr... um.. /rant) are also Size (Enormous).

In conclusion: Size (Enormous)? What are your thoughts?

[Incorrect]

Rogue Trader help

One of my players challenged a rogue trader to a melee duel, and Im terrible at building human threats. Which talents are need-to-have for a dual wielding melee fighter?

Enemy Rogue Trader
A mix between genghis khan and cartoon Bane (pumping iron and drugs).
He is a death worlder with a strong focus on melee duels.
I imagine him using dual chain axes, but that can be changed.
He has strong access to military equipment and necron tech.
He has strong ties to officio assassinorum, could get tech or training from them.

Player
Has a very strong grip on the rules, and will no doubt use all tricks
Is supported by the group, players and characters.
Level 3 Arch militant
Mostly focused on ranged, but strong in melee
Likely power sword, but still has the chance to buy weapons.
Might be buffed with combat drugs

I want this duel to be in the favor of the NPC but not impossible, he is supposed to be a dangerous threat. They will fight to the first burned fate point, so no character will die. I feel like 70/30 chances are fitting.

[Lord Torath]

This should get you started:

Talents:
Berzerk Charge adds an extra +10 to hit when charging
Blademaster allows one reroll of a failed attack per round
Crushing Blow adds 2 to damage in melee
Step Aside grants an additional Dodge
Wall of Steel grants an additional Parry
Counter-Attack allows a return strike (at -20) after a successful parry
Swift Attack and Lightning Attack each add an additional attack as a full action
Two-Weapon Wielder allows an extra attack (with a second weapon) with both attacks at -20 to hit
Preternatural Speed lets you make multiple attacks (Lightning/Swift Attack and Dual Weapon Wielder) as a half-action instead of a full one, and lets you do it on a charge.
Ambidextrous reduces the penalty for Dual Wielding to -10 instead of -20
Dual Strike eliminates the penalty entirely, lets both weapons hit on a single roll (also dodged or parried on a single roll, so be careful) and lets one weapon ignore toughness.
Frenzy adds 10 to Weapon Skill, Strength, Toughness, and Willpower at a cost of -20 to BS and Int (takes a full action to activate)
Disarm does what it says on a successful opposed WS test.
Lightning Reflexes doubles your agility bonus when rolling for initiative.

Traits:
Unnatural Strength will double the strength bonus, greatly increasing damage on a hit.
Unnatural Toughness will double the toughness bonus for extra hp and reduced damage.
Touched by the Fates grants a number of Fate Points and the ability to benefit from Righteous Fury.

[Incorrect]

This should get you started

Thank you, my man!
This was all I could hope for and more. Its going straight to the GM folder.

Of cause, everyone is free to chime in with ideas as well :)

[The Glyphstone]

Does your player have a Force Field? That can be massively swingy in terms of fight odds, and it's the sort of gear a Rogue Trader would carry almost as standard issue since they are status symbols as much as they are protective gear. And what does 'supported by the group' mean, is this a 1v1 duel or a 1vMany boss fight?

[Incorrect]

The character does have a force field.
It will be a 1v1 duel, but the character will no doubt have borrowed the best gear from the group, and the advice of the other players.

[Lord Torath]

Thank you, my man!
This was all I could hope for and more. Its going straight to the GM folder.

My pleasure! I was designing a familiar for my librarian using the rules in Deathwatch - First Founding, so I started looking at all the talents I could take to improve its effectiveness and survivability in combat. I could just go with the Psyber Raven, but I decided I wanted a Psyber Cat instead.

Also, when do you expect this duel to take place? Will you share the results with us when it's over?

New Question: What actions can be combined with Two-Weapon Wielder? Can it be combined with Multiple Attacks (Swift/Lighting Attack)? All-Out Attack? Charge? Do Multiple Arms add their extra attack(s) to any melee attack action? Any full-action melee attack?

Edit: After carefully reading Two-Weapon Wielder, it looks like it combines with Multiple Attacks along with Swift/Lightning Attack. I presume that Multiple Arms adds its extra attacks the same way.

[Incorrect]

It ended the other day, with a huge battle going on, and a duel in the middle.
The enemy armed with two vicious chain axes, and the PC armed with two bolt pistols.
It was a desperate fight, after two rounds all fate points had been spent on extra dodges. The next round fate points were being burned to stay alive.
I asked her if she would cut her loses and survive, or try to beat him and have the chance of becoming rogue trader herself. She pressed on, risking her life.
In the end the PC had zero fate points left, and both were one hit away from death.
In a stroke of luck the enemy missed and fumbled, allowing the PC to get two clean hits in, cutting the enemy in half.

[Lord Torath]

Nice! Sucks to be out of fate points, but that player is going to remember that duel forever!

Thanks for the update!

Question: Ho do you resolve attacks on a horde that's in heavy cover? You're not supposed to use hit locations against hordes, but what if you're going up against (for example) a horde of guardsmen behind a crenelated battlement?

[Destro_Yersul]

Nice! Sucks to be out of fate points, but that player is going to remember that duel forever!

Thanks for the update!

Question: Ho do you resolve attacks on a horde that's in heavy cover? You're not supposed to use hit locations against hordes, but what if you're going up against (for example) a horde of guardsmen behind a crenelated battlement?

Fudge it a bit and give the horde some extra armour points

[Grim Portent]

I'd probably give them no bonus myself. I don't much care for hordes in normal play but I feel they're more of a cinematic option than one that should benefit from any of the more granular aspects of combat like cover considering how damaging them works.


So I've managed to get some prospective players lined up for a Black Crusade game, hopefully starting next weekend, and I'm wanting to workshop some basic ideas.

Basic premise is they're going to be human members of a chaos cult on a Hive World in the lead up to starting a full blown rebellion. A few initial objectives given by their cult leader to prepare for the uprising, and then more outright warzone stuff fighting over military targets.

Thing is I'm having a hard time deciding what should be lead up missions and what should be reserved for open warfare targets.

Seizing vox broadcast stations for propaganda use in the lead up to the uprising is an obvious one, securing weapons caches or sabotaging factories as well. But I'm kind of torn on things like air recyclers, , maintenance and waste disposal systems, stuff like that. They feel like obvious points of sabotage, but also a bit too devastating to resort to in an early stage of hive warfare. Turning an entire hab-block into an oxygenless toxic hellscape seems a bit much to do as a preliminary action.

[Telok]

Turning an entire hab-block into an oxygenless toxic hellscape seems a bit much to do as a preliminary action.

Isn't that just Wednesday when someone pulls a wrong switch?

Try faking that someone in power is secretly a psyker.

[The Glyphstone]

Sabotage doesn't have to mean "stops working entirely". It can just be 'works worse' or 'works partially'. If the plan is to eventually pump toxic Nurgle gas fumes through the air vents, damaging/desecrating the purity-seal-covered filtration mechanisms is important groundwork.

Breaking/damaging maintenance or waste disposal systems works to lower morale among defenders ahead of time, since no one likes living in muck and filth if they can avoid it, and if they can't less muck and filth is preferable to more. This one can even work as a win-win if the worsening conditions are intentional on the part of the cult to incite rebellion, by convincing people it's the nobility's fault their stuff stops working all the time.

[bluntpencil]

Chucking sand into moving parts, and other low level sabotage, is the sort of thing that might be going on.

[xroads]

Has anyone tried out Warhammer Fantasy 4th from Cubicle 7? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

[Rynjin]

I'm not hugely knowledgeable about the 40k universe, but I'm set to play a session with this RPG Monday. Mostly curious about peoples' thoughts on the game in play (for my part it seems like an interesting system, but a bit wonky in spots and the book's layout is terrible), and any handy tips for playing it.

I'm set to play a Salamander Techmarine, if there's any specific advice for that "Class/Race" combo.

Oh actually, a specific semi-lore question. I know people in the 40k universe are basically morons, especially about tech (the book hammers that in pretty hard), so how far would I be able to push a Techmarine who actually wants to like...make things, or innovate the tech I have on me without being called a heretic?

[Lord Torath]

We actually have a general thread for all 40k RPGs. Any further questions should probably go there to reduce clutter.

As far as Tech Heresy, techmarines can go as far as their chapters will allow them. In the Ultramarines, that might not be very far. The Salamanders, though, are a very "Pro-tech" chapter, so I'd imagine they'd be pretty tolerant.

The Deathwatch probably doesn't care too much, as long as you're not obviously using alien technology.

As long as you steer clear of the Adeptus Mechanicus, you should be pretty safe. And, as a Space Marine, you're really not subject to the Mechanicus, so it'd take a pretty high-level magos to get you in real trouble.

That said, I'd recommend talking to your GM, as he is ultimately responsible for the reactions of all the NPCs.

As for how to play, keep your dice handy, and see if you can work in your Demeanor once a session. Remember to use Squad Mode abilities. And if you don't ask, the answer's "No."

[Rynjin]

Transplanting my OP from anotehr thread here on Torath's advice:

I'm not hugely knowledgeable about the 40k universe, but I'm set to play a session with this RPG Monday. Mostly curious about peoples' thoughts on the game in play (for my part it seems like an interesting system, but a bit wonky in spots and the book's layout is terrible), and any handy tips for playing it.

I'm set to play a Salamander Techmarine, if there's any specific advice for that "Class/Race" combo.

Oh actually, a specific semi-lore question. I know people in the 40k universe are basically morons, especially about tech (the book hammers that in pretty hard), so how far would I be able to push a Techmarine who actually wants to like...make things, or innovate the tech I have on me without being called a heretic?

[The Glyphstone]

The answers Lord Torath in the other thread gave are all good. Techmarines exist as a weird intersection in that they hold dual loyalties to both Mars and their Chapter, but if push comes to shove Chapter > Mars. Being Astartes in general means they're mostly above the superstitious rites and rituals that keep the AdMech in its stasis, so it is largely dependent on their chapter. Salamanders specifically are very big on personally crafting and improving their wargear, following the traditions of Vulkan being an artificer, so it would be very un-Salamander-like to not be modifying and personalizing your stuff whenever possible. The Deathwatch itself also has a division devoted to reverse-engineering xenos technology and creating human-safe and Emperor-approved knockoffs, which results in stuff like the Masking Field.


Though as a general consideration, the Adeptus Mechanicus is not nearly as monolithic in the 'not understanding/improving tech' as it presents itself - like pretty much every other organization within the Imperium, it has both its Puritan and Radical wings and subfactions. The radical elements of the AdMech are more willing to experiment and innovate, they just do it quietly so no one can sanction them for it - and if it pans out successfully, they pass it off as rediscovered archaeotech and basically dare people to call their bluff.

[Incorrect]

So I've managed to get some prospective players lined up for a Black Crusade game, hopefully starting next weekend, and I'm wanting to workshop some basic ideas.

Generally you want to sabotage things that will create conflict.
Sabotaging the waste facilities just makes people miserable (and nurgle happy), but combined with rumor or even proof that the government is not doing anything to fix it, will direct the hatred towards the government.

Limiting food and water, drugs, "luxuries" and so on, will make people angry towards each other, as they fight over who gets more.

[LeSwordfish]

I would suggest, if you want players to have free choice but an escalation of challenge, to interconnect the things they can affect in some way. Shutting down one waste processor makes things a bit miserable, but the one in the next section can take some of the strain, and is now guarded - but the guards will move away pretty sharply if someone starts firebombing arbites precints etc etc.

Some things are obviously too hard to do at first (storming the govenor's palace), but if you can keep your head and find a reason why doing X will have an effect of Y magnitude you can do most of the rest on the fly. Or, when I was planning a similar campaign, that's how I did it: big list of things with forseeable consequences for their destruction, and the amount of knock-on and cascade effects depends on how much the players have done, with the precise reasons for that depending on what I can cook up on the fly.

[Tyrrell]

I found the squad cohesion and squad maneuvers the most difficult part of the rules to figure out, but I also found them to be the most rewarding and fun to use, so it's worth the effort to dig into them.

The system is baroque and inelegant but for me that feels very evocative of the 40K setting.

[bluntpencil]

The Deathwatch probably doesn't care too much, as long as you're not obviously using alien technology.

Deathwatch Tech-Marines reverse engineer alien tech all the time. See: Xenophase blades.

[Lord Torath]

Deathwatch Tech-Marines reverse engineer alien tech all the time. See: Xenophase blades.

Huh. That's pretty cool. Where can I read more about Xenophase blades?

[Glorthindel]

Has anyone tried out Warhammer Fantasy 4th from Cubicle 7? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

Haven't had a chance to run it yet, but from multiple read-through and a few tests I am very definitely on the fence. Some things look to be a clear improvement from 2nd ed (I am in love with what they have done to the class progression system), but a few things are either borderline incomprehensible or so cluttered mechanically, that they would likely need an overhaul to make playable. Fortunately my players are pretty relaxed and trusting in my DM style, so I am likely to try and run it RAW and tinker mercilessly as we hit the bumpy bits.

[Lord Torath]

Tyranids are (generally) equipped with Improved Natural Weapons. Natural weapons do not (as I understand it) grant a parry. However, many tyranids also have Scything Talons or Rending Claws. Do those weapons count as melee weapons, allowing the tyranid to parry with them? Or do they need a Bonesword or a Lash Whip if they want to parry?

[Max_Killjoy]

I found the squad cohesion and squad maneuvers the most difficult part of the rules to figure out, but I also found them to be the most rewarding and fun to use, so it's worth the effort to dig into them.

The system is baroque and inelegant but for me that feels very evocative of the 40K setting.

Homebrew is HERESY! PURGE THE UNCLEAN!

[Lord Torath]

What does the "Flexible" weapon trait mean? It's listed in several places (lash whip, tentacles, etc.), but I can't find a description of what it means.

[Destro_Yersul]

It's one of those ones that got introduced later, and is usually in a sidebar in a splat somewhere. DH2E, being the most recent core release, does have it in the main weapon traits section, though. It means attacks from the weapon can't be parried.

[Lord Torath]

Deathwatch: Anyone play through the "Fall into Darkness" adventure in The Jericho Reach? Without spoilers, the later parts of the adventure are locked behind a secret door.

Spoiler: With Spoilers...

Show

You need to pass an Awareness test at a -40 just to find the stupid door, and then a Security test at -30 to open the blasted thing. The GM is encouraged to have increasing numbers of tyranids attacking while the PCs futilely roll dice. Plus, Security is a Rank 3 skill for general marines, so there's no guarantee anyone will have it, especially if there's no Techmarine on the team (who can get it much cheaper at Rank 1).

There's also the fact that the area is covered in a field that projects an illusion of an empty, dry, blasted wasteland, which has kept the tyranids at bay. No rippers, no feeding tentacles, nothing. It even hides living creatures from normal senses. So why does it suddenly stop working on the tyranids when the Kill Team is there?

Any suggestions on how to remedy this?

Spoiler: My Thoughts

Show

My first thought is to keep the tests, but change the results. Set a default finding time if, say, ten minutes. For every degree of success or failure, subtract or add 1 minute to the time required to find the door. Same goes for the test to open it, although I'd probably allow a Tech Use test at an extra -10 to be substituted for the Security test.

As for the field, I suppose you could claim it only cloaks life forms of size Tiny or smaller.