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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    I won't be able to wear armor, being a Celestial Wizard and all. I was more thinking in terms of swords, something I can stab things with when they're too close for me to zap.
    Well, you know what they say; "a sword in the hand is worth two in the elf"...or something. A gromril blade will raise an eyebrow or two, especially from dwarven folk, but won't be scrutinised too much. An ithilmar blade, on the other hand, might bring down something of an inquisition down on your head should an elf catch wind of it. Nothing you shouldn't be able to handle, of course, but it's definitely a concern.

    It raises the question of where, exactly, you got it. Did you kill an elf and pry it from his cold, dead fingers? Was it a gift? A prize? Did you find it in a ruin? The same questions can be asked of a gromril blade, of course. The real issue is not "what's cooler; gromril or ithilmar?" it's "what's cooler; the story behind obtaining said ithilmar or gromril blade?" and it largely boils down to who you want interaction with over it; dwarves or elves.
    I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.

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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Incorrect View Post
    Hey guys. Quick Dark Heresy 1ed. question.
    How do you make your rank 2 Imperial psyker, combat effective? Any fun and creative ideas?
    I dont need to outclass the assassin or guardsman, but I know we will be in fights very often. The character is not build yet, but has a good array of stats between 27-40.

    I dont see minor powers helping that much, and dont get the stats and talents to fight directly.
    The only way I see before me is going for an accurate basic weapon and using unnatural aim to snipe.
    Here are some possibilities. Most of what you want to do is stack bonuses to hit in your favor.

    1. Be aware of the official errata that if you aim with an accurate weapon, you can get an extra d10 of damage for each degree of success, up to 2.

    Get an accurate weapon, red dot sight, anything else you might be able to get your GM to agree to that will add to your BS. Unnatural aim (+30), aim (+10), aim (+10), fire (+10 from accurate, +10 from red dot sight) lets you fire every two rounds, and should give you +70 to hit (another +10 if you're within short range, which you probably are). With a BS of 30, this gives you a 95% chance to hit and an 80% chance of doing 3d10+whatever damage.

    Enemies that dodge will ruin you, though.

    2. Get a full auto weapon and use suppressive fire. Pinning checks are brutal, and BS and training are unnecessary to cost most of your enemies half their actions.

    Outside of suppressive fire, just straight up full auto gives you a +20 to hit, +10 if you're within short range, and can generate multiple hits.

    3. Get a combat shotgun. Run up to someone and use it point blank. +30 to hit from point blank range, another +10 if you have a red dot sight, with the possibility of multiple hits from scatter. Of course, you're right next to your enemy and so in a bad spot if they don't go down, but, yknow.

    If you're already adjacent to someone, you can fire it on semi-auto for an extra +10 (but no red dot sight) and /really/ ruin their day with multiple hits /and/ scatter if you roll well.

    4. Get a flamer. BS and training are unnecessary. Once an enemy is on fire (50% chance for something with an Agility of 30, even if you are untrained in flamers), without house rules allowing buddies to help or whatnot, they are almost certainly going to die (only a 10% chance to put themselves out each round).

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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by JellyPooga View Post
    It raises the question of where, exactly, you got it. Did you kill an elf and pry it from his cold, dead fingers? Was it a gift? A prize? Did you find it in a ruin? The same questions can be asked of a gromril blade, of course. The real issue is not "what's cooler; gromril or ithilmar?" it's "what's cooler; the story behind obtaining said ithilmar or gromril blade?" and it largely boils down to who you want interaction with over it; dwarves or elves.
    Absolutely
    Of course killing elves can be socially acceptable as long as they're Dark Elves. Indeed killing Dark Elves is generally regarded as a public service. Or of course you could have got it by killing a guy who killed an elf
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Incorrect View Post
    Hey guys. Quick Dark Heresy 1ed. question.
    How do you make your rank 2 Imperial psyker, combat effective? Any fun and creative ideas?
    I dont need to outclass the assassin or guardsman, but I know we will be in fights very often. The character is not build yet, but has a good array of stats between 27-40.

    I dont see minor powers helping that much, and dont get the stats and talents to fight directly.
    The only way I see before me is going for an accurate basic weapon and using unnatural aim to snipe.
    Fearful Aura is underrated as a passive debuff. Fear Rating 2 means every enemy who can see you regardless of distance has to make a Willpower test at -10 or suffer anything from losing half an action to penalties on any tests for the rest of the combat to outright blacking out in terror.
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Incorrect View Post
    Hey guys. Quick Dark Heresy 1ed. question.
    How do you make your rank 2 Imperial psyker, combat effective? Any fun and creative ideas?
    I dont need to outclass the assassin or guardsman, but I know we will be in fights very often. The character is not build yet, but has a good array of stats between 27-40.

    I dont see minor powers helping that much, and dont get the stats and talents to fight directly.
    The only way I see before me is going for an accurate basic weapon and using unnatural aim to snipe.
    Shotguns, shotguns are your friend and they will mulch anything that isnt in heavy armor or a Daemon with a ton of wounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    Fearful Aura is underrated as a passive debuff. Fear Rating 2 means every enemy who can see you regardless of distance has to make a Willpower test at -10 or suffer anything from losing half an action to penalties on any tests for the rest of the combat to outright blacking out in terror.
    Also, do this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    You probably saw, but Lord Inquisitor is officially kill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverlordJ View Post
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    A Gameplay example of Wrath and Glory is up. It looks neat! Reminds me of the various Apocalypse World systems. I'm very much down for a less rules-heavy take on 40k.
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    A Gameplay example of Wrath and Glory is up. It looks neat! Reminds me of the various Apocalypse World systems. I'm very much down for a less rules-heavy take on 40k.
    Hmmmm, i hope it has more crunch than Apocalypse world as thats actually too rules lite for me group. Fate is about as lite as we can get.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Thank you for all your great replies on the psyker combat question.

    A flamer and fearful aura has a nice combined imagery, although not the most team-friendly. I will try and see if the gm will work with me on this :) If not a shotgun will be the way to go.
    English is my second language, but I will be more than happy to explain myself in Danish.

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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Question related to magic and elves: do elven spellcasters "attune" to the Winds of Magic the way humans do (i.e. Ghur makes you more solitary and hairy, Azyr makes you more dreamy and turns your eyes blue, etc.) or is that affectation unique to human spellcasters?

    Furthermore, if elves ARE affected in this way, how does that influence manifest for elf spellcasters capable of using High Magic, since they've mastered all the Winds?

    And when Dark Elves and Wood Elves use DARK magic, are they considered Daemonologists or Necromancers, considering those are the categories human Dhar users split into, or is there some third category of Dark magic user unique to elves?

    Realms of Sorcery (and the wiki in general) only really talks about how HUMANS practice magic, since learning High Magic is "beyond the scope of the game." And has very little info on role-playing elves in the first place (you at least get flavor text for dwarfs in Karak Asgal, and for halflings scattered throughout Empire-related books).
    Last edited by Archpaladin Zousha; 2018-02-09 at 12:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Question related to magic and elves: do elven spellcasters "attune" to the Winds of Magic the way humans do (i.e. Ghur makes you more solitary and hairy, Azyr makes you more dreamy and turns your eyes blue, etc.) or is that affectation unique to human spellcasters?
    The separate Winds of Magic is a kind of 'Idiots Guide to Magic' for dumb humies to follow. High Elves ( and I presume Wood Elves) use High Magic, which is a blending of all the Winds into one true form of magic.

    Furthermore, if elves ARE affected in this way, how does that influence manifest for elf spellcasters capable of using High Magic, since they've mastered all the Winds?
    It mentions in an aside in 'Realms of Sorcery' the High Magic requires 'tranquility. focus and patience'. So I'd have High Magic users reflect this. Speaking quietly, meditating and generally coming across like a Enlightened King Fu Master in a Martial Arts movie ( before wreaking awesome havoc when someone finely succeeds in convincing them he needs to be killed, like a Kung Fu Master in a Martial Arts film )

    And when Dark Elves and Wood Elves use DARK magic, are they considered Daemonologists or Necromancers, considering those are the categories human Dhar users split into, or is there some third category of Dark magic user unique to elves?
    I suspect there is a third category. As apparently Dark Elves use Dark Magic but have never been portrayed as having Necromancers or Chaos Sorcerors ( or the accompanying Demons and Undead) as part of their forces. In the 'Realm of Sorcery' it suggests that True Dhar (as used by Dark Elves) is like High Magic in that it uses all of the separate Winds of Magic but corrupted and distorted.
    Last edited by comicshorse; 2018-02-09 at 07:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    If that's the case, then how come Wood Elf Spellsingers in Total War: Warhammer focus on specific Lores in their skill sets (Beasts, Life or Shadows depending on which you recruit) and the rules of 2e following a similar approach (though obviously an elf PC may select Lores other than the aforementioned 3)? High and Dark Magic weren't even touched on in the Total War games until 2, though the fluff indicates that Wood Elves DO have High and Dark magic users, called Spellweavers, that are often paired off to keep the Dhar using one stable.
    Last edited by Archpaladin Zousha; 2018-02-09 at 08:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Because it's a computer game and they simplified the code?
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    If that's the case, then how come Wood Elf Spellsingers in Total War: Warhammer focus on specific Lores in their skill sets (Beasts, Life or Shadows depending on which you recruit) and the rules of 2e following a similar approach (though obviously an elf PC may select Lores other than the aforementioned 3)? High and Dark Magic weren't even touched on in the Total War games until 2, though the fluff indicates that Wood Elves DO have High and Dark magic users, called Spellweavers, that are often paired off to keep the Dhar using one stable.
    As I understand it, Spellsingers use magic that's sort of "filtered" by their connection to Athel Loren, nature spirits and that kind of gumph, which is why it is functionally similar to the Human Lores of Beasts and Life, but isn't technically utilising the raw, individual Winds relating to that aspect, which is why they can mix'n'match between lores and why they don't typically display the traits that Humans display from using those Lores. Spellweavers have a deeper understanding, so use High Magic.
    I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.

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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Wait, wood elves can have spells of different Lores at once in WHFRP 2e?
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Wait, wood elves can have spells of different Lores at once in WHFRP 2e?
    I could be mistaken, but I think so (it might just have been a houserule our table used thoughh I forget).
    I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.

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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Back when I was more interested in WFRP 2e, the lack of information about elven mages was pretty odd to me. It's mentioned that they work differently than the human ones, and then... nothing. It didn't bother me much because playing elves never interested me, elven mages even less so. But it is a weird omission.
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Back when I was more interested in WFRP 2e, the lack of information about elven mages was pretty odd to me. It's mentioned that they work differently than the human ones, and then... nothing. It didn't bother me much because playing elves never interested me, elven mages even less so. But it is a weird omission.
    Exactly. That's why I ask, because it's bugging me. Maybe with the new 4e Cubicle7's releasing this year that'll finally get addressed.

    Also, are Wood Elves cannibals? I think I heard someone mention they were when I said I think I like Wood Elves better than the other types because they're less snooty than High Elves and less psychotic than Dark Elves and someone offered the counter-argument that the reason Bretonnian boys who have magic disappear while girls become Grail Damsels is because the Wood Elves eat them.
    Last edited by Archpaladin Zousha; 2018-02-10 at 02:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Exactly. That's why I ask, because it's bugging me. Maybe with the new 4e Cubicle7's releasing this year that'll finally get addressed.
    Well there's an inherent problem with a fluff that says Elves are better at magic than humans and having Human PC magic users not be utterly out classed by Elven PC magic Users


    Also, are Wood Elves cannibals? I think I heard someone mention they were when I said I think I like Wood Elves better than the other types because they're less snooty than High Elves and less psychotic than Dark Elves and someone offered the counter-argument that the reason Bretonnian boys who have magic disappear while girls become Grail Damsels is because the Wood Elves eat them.
    I don't think so (though technically eating humans isn't cannibalism) but I vaguely heard that the last Wood Elf army book got fairly dark. Which is where they may be getting that from. However that is an Army Book for Warhammer Battle so its relation to WHFRP is dodgy anyway.
    I seem to remember 4Chan had a article about how horrible the Wood Elves now where and if they read that without the ton of salt needed it could be where the idea came from
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    RPG creators should learn not to shill a particular kind of character if they're not willing to walk their talk and make them superior to the others.
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    RPG creators should learn not to shill a particular kind of character if they're not willing to walk their talk and make them superior to the others.
    Not really the RPG creator's fault when the fluff existed before they wrote the game. GW established Elven Magic-Users as clearly better than human magic-users. Then along comes the RPG, and they're forced to choose between 'adhering to the fluff' and 'making a balanced game'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Not really the RPG creator's fault when the fluff existed before they wrote the game. GW established Elven Magic-Users as clearly better than human magic-users. Then along comes the RPG, and they're forced to choose between 'adhering to the fluff' and 'making a balanced game'.
    I mean "better" is subjective. Elves would probably be more reliable, have less negatives, and be sort of more diverse, but humans could probably Nova better as the winds of magic are riskier, but I would say have a higher payoff
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Not really the RPG creator's fault when the fluff existed before they wrote the game. GW established Elven Magic-Users as clearly better than human magic-users. Then along comes the RPG, and they're forced to choose between 'adhering to the fluff' and 'making a balanced game'.
    That is fair, yes. Only so much they could do, so maybe we shouldn't blame them for not spending too much wordcount on super-special, awesome and soooo much better elven magic is than the magic of those poor, dumb humans.
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    How DO Wood Elf Spellweavers learn High Magic anyway? The RPG handwaves it as "an elf PC who wanted to learn it would have to travel to Ulthuan so they can study at the White Tower of Hoeth, and that studying takes centuries, so your character would effectively be retired at this point since any non-elf PCs will have passed away by that time." But the Asrai don't want anything to DO with Ulthuan and the Asur. Why would one want to go there, considering the game tacitly assumes most elf PCs are Asrai from Laurelorn? Do they "retire" to Athel Loren instead or something? I hope the new edition really dives into options for elf and dwarf PCs. It's like 2e only really had info on humans and the things humans fight (considering the full-length books that had rules for playing vampires, Skaven and Chaos worshippers).
    Last edited by Archpaladin Zousha; 2018-02-11 at 11:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    How DO Wood Elf Spellweavers learn High Magic anyway? The RPG handwaves it as "an elf PC who wanted to learn it would have to travel to Ulthuan so they can study at the White Tower of Hoeth, and that studying takes centuries, so your character would effectively be retired at this point since any non-elf PCs will have passes away by that time." But the Asrai don't want anything to DO with Ulthuan and the Asur. Why would one want to go there, considering the game tacitly assumes most elf PCs are Asrai from Laurelorn?
    Presumably they just have to want it SO MUCH that they are prepared to travel to Ulthuan, endure the dangers of the journey and then put up with being away from home for centuries and almost certainly being treated like a second class citizen by the High Elves
    Or, more probably but less canon, you go learn it from the last poor Wood Elf that had to put up with doing it that way and then returned home. The cost being when he starts to get old there's a chance you're chosen as the next poor bugger to go learn it. ( Not that this really helps game wise as a PC out of the game for centuries learning Magic in a wood is just as out of the game if they're in Ulthuan)

    I believe the 'Defenders of the Forest' fan supplement for Wood Elves has stuff on Wood Elf casters
    Last edited by comicshorse; 2018-02-11 at 11:14 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    How accurate to the lore is that supplement? And how well does it balance with the official game materials? I've had some bad experiences with badly-written fan supplements in the past.
    Last edited by Archpaladin Zousha; 2018-02-11 at 11:41 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #267
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Obviously the book is covering areas not defined by WFRP but I don't remember it having anything that wouldn't fit was what has been published in the RPG.
    I've never used any of the rule in a game so can't comment on its balance. All you can do is run it past your GM and see what he thinks
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  28. - Top - End - #268
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Having read it, I'm not sure. It's got a lot of stuff that doesn't appear on the wiki, but the problem is that most of the wiki's sources ARE the RPG books that didn't cover this stuff in the first place. I have no idea if some of this stuff is accurate to the lore or if the people writing it just made stuff up (like the bit about Laurelorn's Wood Elves giving chief Artur of the Teutogens an Excalibur sword because they were planning on manipulating him the way the Athel Loren Wood Elves did Gilles le Breton, but the plan failed when Sigmar beat Artur and got the Teutogens under his rule instead, there's no suggestion in anything else I've read that Artur was LITERALLY King Arthur expy the way Gilles le Breton was). I'm confused!
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  29. - Top - End - #269
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Having read it, I'm not sure. It's got a lot of stuff that doesn't appear on the wiki, but the problem is that most of the wiki's sources ARE the RPG books that didn't cover this stuff in the first place. I have no idea if some of this stuff is accurate to the lore or if the people writing it just made stuff up (like the bit about Laurelorn's Wood Elves giving chief Artur of the Teutogens an Excalibur sword because they were planning on manipulating him the way the Athel Loren Wood Elves did Gilles le Breton, but the plan failed when Sigmar beat Artur and got the Teutogens under his rule instead, there's no suggestion in anything else I've read that Artur was LITERALLY King Arthur expy the way Gilles le Breton was). I'm confused!
    Its entirely possible that its from Codexes and Novels. Kinda weird that that wouldnt show up on say, the Lexicanum though.
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  30. - Top - End - #270
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    Default Re: Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

    I've had difficulty even READING the Lexicanum. "Congratulations, You Won" malware scams seem to butt in with alarming frequency when I try to read articles on there.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

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