OOTS #991 - The Discussion Thread

[Quild]

I am curious are the crayon sections done with actual crayons and scanned in; or is there a crayon option in the art package?

This was answered in the Twitter Q&As that is indexed in the index:
https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/statu...43833691287553

The question was technically about the previous crayons drawing, but I bet 1 internet point that it still stands.

[dtilque]

That being said, "I don't want to waste any energy satisfying idle curiosity" being code for "the story of Tenrin's death is basically correct as shown in this strip. Also that Tenrin is indeed Durkon's father." is a pretty far stretch

That's because I left out a few induction and deduction steps, figuring that people could fill them in. Let me spell them out.

The crayon story is satisfying idle curiosity. The subtext is that it's the curiosity of the readers that's being satisfied. So this strip was added to the overall story to do that. Which means it wasn't in his original plans to tell it. (It's much like a bonus strip in the books.) So there's no reason for Burlew to put in any kind of hooks to future plot twists or anything like that. It's just a straight-forward telling of this backstory.

Satisfied?

[ManicOppressive]

Hey, you guys remember that one time someone died under unclear, non-specific circumstances and no one found their body, and there didn't end up being some sort of twist regarding their death?

Me neither.

[Keltest]

That's because I left out a few induction and deduction steps, figuring that people could fill them in. Let me spell them out.

The crayon story is satisfying idle curiosity. The subtext is that it's the curiosity of the readers that's being satisfied. So this strip was added to the overall story to do that. Which means it wasn't in his original plans to tell it. (It's much like a bonus strip in the books.) So there's no reason for Burlew to put in any kind of hooks to future plot twists or anything like that. It's just a straight-forward telling of this backstory.

Satisfied?

That strikes me as highly unlike Rich. If the only reason he was telling the story was because people kept asking, he would have just made a forum post about it instead of devoting the resources to bring it up directly in two different comics, and indirectly in a third. Its clearly important to some degree, otherwise it wouldn't be coming up the way it has been.

[littlebum2002]

Hmmm... after the Snarl speech from Shojo and what we've learned since then, I'm disinclined to believe the veracity of any crayon-based flashback. Not that the elements of truth aren't there, but things we don't know yet are being withheld, intentionally or otherwise.

Well, from what we have seen so far, "crayon story" means "he is a story someone else told me and I'm repeating to you". We've had normal flashbacks before, but they were all first hand. Crayon stories are all hearsay, so they need to be taken with a grain of salt.

This was answered in the Twitter Q&As that is indexed in the index:
https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/statu...43833691287553

The question was technically about the previous crayons drawing, but I bet 1 internet point that it still stands.

ELI5: From the Bristol disambiguation page, I'm assuming "Bristol" means "bristol board", a paper commonly used in art, but does this mean Rich colors with crayons and then scans it? If so, he must have a pretty good scanner, because if I tried scanning a drawing it wouldn't look nearly that clean.

That's because I left out a few induction and deduction steps, figuring that people could fill them in. Let me spell them out.

The crayon story is satisfying idle curiosity. The subtext is that it's the curiosity of the readers that's being satisfied. So this strip was added to the overall story to do that. Which means it wasn't in his original plans to tell it. (It's much like a bonus strip in the books.)

I'm totally following you up until this point. The possibility certainly exists that Rich just wanted to throw us a bone and make us happy IF there had been rampant speculation threads in the forums asking about this. The problem is, there weren't any.

So there's no reason for Burlew to put in any kind of hooks to future plot twists or anything like that. It's just a straight-forward telling of this backstory.

Satisfied?

This is where you lost me. Normally I would agree, but the circumstances by which the story is told makes it seem like there is more than meets the eye. I mean, let's look at the facts:

You're a dwarf, and your husband dies under extraordinarily heroic circumstances.
You forbid anyone from telling the story under threat of physical violence.
You cut ties with your friends from before The Event and find new friends who weren't there for The Event.

It is entirely possible in my mind that Durkon's dad died under less-than-heroic circumstances (or just deadbeat dad-ed it out of town) and his mom made up this tale to hide her shame, and told people not to share the story because she knew it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.

[Quild]

ELI5: From the Bristol disambiguation page, I'm assuming "Bristol" means "bristol board", a paper commonly used in art, but does this mean Rich colors with crayons and then scans it? If so, he must have a pretty good scanner, because if I tried scanning a drawing it wouldn't look nearly that clean.

I have not doubt that Bristol refers to the kind of paper used often use for drawings. I used those at school as a child. I'm a terrible drawer though.

Regarding the scanner, I expect an artist to have a good one, yes.

For instance, the drawing of that pig was on paper, with paint (I mean real paint) and was scanned afterward. You can see the artist drawing on the second video.

[Gift Jeraff]

Hey, you guys remember that one time someone died under unclear, non-specific circumstances and no one found their body, and there didn't end up being some sort of twist regarding their death?

Me neither.

So Durkon's dad is Thog.

[Peelee]

So Durkon's dad is Thog.

Giant, there's twenty bucks in it for you to come in and reply, "Canon."

[Bulldog Psion]

That's because I left out a few induction and deduction steps, figuring that people could fill them in. Let me spell them out.

The crayon story is satisfying idle curiosity. The subtext is that it's the curiosity of the readers that's being satisfied. So this strip was added to the overall story to do that. Which means it wasn't in his original plans to tell it. (It's much like a bonus strip in the books.) So there's no reason for Burlew to put in any kind of hooks to future plot twists or anything like that. It's just a straight-forward telling of this backstory.

Satisfied?

I haven't really noticed a massive "what happened to Durkon's dad?" movement on here whose "idle curiosity" Mr. Burlew would be addressing. I mean, a few people have speculated here and there, but it's hardly a deafening chorus.

Especially compared to stuff like Belkar's fate, various gender-related wrangles, and so on.

In short, I respectfully disagree with the analysis you presented. It seems to me that Mr. Burlew is not going to put in a strip just to answer a question that isn't being asked very frequently or vehemently. There are many, much more persistent and occasionally annoying "mass questions" that never get a strip to answer them.

So, I think that the strip was planned in some form and was not prompted by (non-existent) clamor on the forums, and that the "idle curiosity" part is not aimed at the readership, but indicates the total contempt Durk Malackssen has for Durkon and all the details of his life which Durkon considers important.

[Porthos]

Was talking about this in another thread, and I thought I should bring it up here since it appears not to have been mentioned yet, quite to my surprise:

"-he was patient and kind and loyal. The sort of man you can always count on, even if he doesn't always stand out in a crowd."
-Thirden talking about Tenrin

But he was also talking about Durkon here. I mean, the 'camera' practically focused on Young Durkon lighting up in happiness at that description. One can almost see the wheels turing in his head as it was being said.

If we're looking for subtext here, well, that's not a bad place to start. We don't even have to say it's describing Modern Day Durkon, though it does in spades, since it also could easily describe Young Durkon from what we've seen of him.

Thirden is bascially saying to Young Durkon, "Your father was just like you, laddie."

Whether that's true or not, is neither here nor there for that exact line. It was Thirden telling Durkon in so many words, "Yes, you would have been proud of your father and he would have been proud of you. Now go out and be like him."

Even if, as is likely, there is more to what really happen that Thirden is letting on, the message he was trying to send to Young Durkon was rather clear, I think.

[littlebum2002]

Was talking about this in another thread, and I thought I should bring it up here since it appears not to have been mentioned yet, quite to my surprise:

"-he was patient and kind and loyal. The sort of man you can always count on, even if he doesn't always stand out in a crowd."
-Thirden talking about Tenrin

But he was also talking about Durkon here. I mean, the 'camera' practically focused on Young Durkon lighting up in happiness at that description. One can almost see the wheels turing in his head as it was being said.

If we're looking for subtext here, well, that's not a bad place to start. We don't even have to say it's describing Modern Day Durkon, though it does in spades, since it also could easily describe Young Durkon from what we've seen of him.

Thirden is bascially saying to Young Durkon, "Your father was just like you, laddie."

Whether that's true or not, is neither here nor there for that exact line. It was Thirden telling Durkon in so many words, "Yes, you would have been proud of your father and he would have been proud of you. Now go out and be like him."

Even if, as is likely, there is more to what really happen that Thirden is letting on, the message he was trying to send to Young Durkon was rather clear, I think.

That's not at all what I got from that panel. I got "this is when Durkon decided what his personality would be". He heard Uncle Squeaky telling him how his dad acted, and he decided he wanted to be just like him.

[Porthos]

That's not at all what I got from that panel. I got "this is when Durkon decided what his personality would be". He heard Uncle Squeaky telling him how his dad acted, and he decided he wanted to be just like him.

I think the "kind and loyal" and "person you can always count on" had already been established in spades by this point in regards to Young Durkon. Even so, I was referencing this very point you bring up when I said you could almost see the wheels turning in Durkon's head.

If one likes, call it reinforcement of pre-existing tendencies. And that Thriden was encouraging the qualites he already saw in Young Durkon.

[Snails]

That strikes me as highly unlike Rich. If the only reason he was telling the story was because people kept asking, he would have just made a forum post about it instead of devoting the resources to bring it up directly in two different comics, and indirectly in a third. Its clearly important to some degree, otherwise it wouldn't be coming up the way it has been.

I agree.

What I gleaned for the Giant's comment on forum feedback is he sometimes adds clarifications into the narrative, because the forum posters indicate a non-trivial number are confused on a point that matters to the story itself (or perhaps the Giant on a personal level).

As a speculative example for illustration purposes only, the Giant might not have planned to do an entire page to the topic of Critiquing Suspicion, and originally thought that a few offhand comments within other pages would suffice. If he decided many posters were confused on Roy's attitude, he might expand a few panels into an entire page. I am not saying such happened. I am illustrating what kind of changes I believe the Giant was talking about.

The Giant might tell a tale about Durkon's mother because he feels like it. But he has shown the ability to focus on the story and not indulge random forum poster whims. Wouldn't we all like to know more about the backstory of Tarquin, Julio, Belkar, Malack, Tenrin, O-Chuul? I think the answer is yes yes yes yes yes yes. But the Giant is not going to indulge us, because attempting to do so will hurt the pacing of this story. Such backgrounds might show up in some other tale, if he gets around to writing it.

[Mad Humanist]

Maybe the High Priest's beard will have fallen out by the time they reach the Godsmoot and that way Roy will understand what's going on.

[rodneyAnonymous]

The past tense of forbid is forbade.

[littlebum2002]

I think the "kind and loyal" and "person you can always count on" had already been established in spades by this point in regards to Young Durkon. Even so, I was referencing this very point you bring up when I said you could almost see the wheels turning in Durkon's head.

If one likes, call it reinforcement of pre-existing tendencies. And that Thriden was encouraging the qualites he already saw in Young Durkon.

I'm not saying you;re wrong, I'm just saying I interpreted it differently than you did, but I can totally see why you saw it the way you did.

[monkeyslinger]

The past tense of forbid is forbade.

Reminds me of The Big Bang Theory.

" I forbidded it!"
...
"I forbode it!"

"The word is 'forbade.'"

"Are you sure? That doesn't sound right."

[Ashtagon]

The past tense of forbid is forbade.

Or perhaps some really clever use of the subjunctive voice

Or perhaps the character isn't a stickler for grammar.

Thirden is quite clearly an unreliable narrator as he won't/can't get grammar right. I'm surprised more people aren't picking up on that.

[Shining Wrath]

Hey, you guys remember that one time someone died under unclear, non-specific circumstances and no one found their body, and there didn't end up being some sort of twist regarding their death?

Me neither.

Thog elegant in the simplicity of Thog's death.

[Bitzer]

I love all the detail in the third panel, especially the picture and the "cave sweet cave" plaque above the door.

Now for some wild speculation:

Spoiler

Show

What if Durkon's father didn't die in the cave-in? Maybe he was buried alive with the dracotroll, and they couldn't dig him out without releasing the creature. Sigdi could be feeling guilty about having to leave him there. Is there any way that he could possibly even still be alive after all this time and that is why she never remarried? Probably not on that last part, but I don't know anything about dnd to know if it's possible.

Well, if he had a ring of sustenance he could still be alive. Although, the mental toll of being trapped for that long would have rendered him completely insane I'm sure.

[Bulldog Psion]

The past tense of forbid is forbade.

Hm -- didn't even notice that mistake until you pointed it out.


Anyway, to answer other posts -- I don't think there's any chance Durkon's dad is alive under that rockfall 40 years later. Odds are he was crushed flatter than a pancake in a split second; if he wasn't, then he almost certainly suffocated quite rapidly.

And if he was still alive and had a Ring of Sustenance, why on Earth wouldn't Sigdi go back and dig him out?

[BrotherMirtillo]

Thirden is quite clearly an unreliable narrator as he won't/can't get grammar right. I'm surprised more people aren't picking up on that.

Here's what I just picked up from that: thinking of his narrator type makes me think of his powers of storytelling. I realized that if the Order happens to visit the Dwarven Lands and meet Thirden, then it would be the first time that we see two bards meet each other. Of course, Elan would probably be polite to Thirden, but if they were to compare techniques, then there could be only one conclusion:

Dueling banjos lutes.

[Emperordaniel]

And if he was still alive and had a Ring of Sustenance, why on Earth wouldn't Sigdi go back and dig him out?

Potential for digging out the troll first/at the same time? That would invalidate Tenrin's sacrifice pretty heavily.

[factotum]

Potential for digging out the troll first/at the same time? That would invalidate Tenrin's sacrifice pretty heavily.

Presumably she would be better prepared this time and would bring the acidic weapons, since she knows the fire ones don't work.

[Emperordaniel]

Presumably she would be better prepared this time and would bring the acidic weapons, since she knows the fire ones don't work.

That's assuming they have any. For all we know, they didn't.

[Keltest]

That's assuming they have any. For all we know, they didn't.

Then they would bring actual acid. They live in a city full of miners, if they couldn't get their hands on some of that, then the city has no business fighting monsters to begin with.

[Peelee]

Then they would bring actual acid. They live in a city full of miners, if they couldn't get their hands on some of that, then the city has no business fighting monsters to begin with.

This isn't the 60's anymore, man. You can't just go around town and be like, "hey, I need some acid," and expect to get a hit.

[Keltest]

This isn't the 60's anymore, man. You can't just go around town and be like, "hey, I need some acid," and expect to get a hit.

Its always the 60's in dwarfland.

[Peelee]

Its always the 60's in dwarfland.

That does explain the beards and hair...