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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    I guess protection from energy and resist energy is up to the individual, with squishier builds favoring protection. It will run out faster, but holds up much better to big blasts. I know which one I preferred when we opened a door and got an empowered cone of cold to the face (and I failed the reflex save).

    As for Cursed Razor, its one of the new disciplines added by Path of War: Expanded; you can find the current form in the PoW: Expanded thread, first post. I've also mentioned the build idea a few times in the thread, as well.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaxenomorph View Post
    As for Cursed Razor, its one of the new disciplines added by Path of War: Expanded; you can find the current form in the PoW: Expanded thread, first post. I've also mentioned the build idea a few times in the thread, as well.
    Do I understand correctly that this is still a work in progress and the final product has not been published yet?
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    I'm pretty sure Cursed Razor has been finalized, but the one in the document might not be the final version. Either way, unless they significantly rework the discipline, it should stay as appealing.

    Either way, if you were going to mention the Martial Training feats, you can just mention that it has quite a lot of potential, since it could be really complicated. However, disciplines that have an Int skill would be the most likely ones to be best: Cursed Razor, Shattered Mirror, and Elemental Flux are the big ones I can recall off the top of my head (though with Bruising Intellect, Black Seraph and Eternal Guardian might also work).

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    I've had good experiences with using Bruising Intellect to grab Black Seraph from Martial Training 1 and 2. Grab that stance that let's you intimidate as a free action with a bonus to replace Enforcer or other options for free intimidates.
    Kitten: *bats around a mini a few times*
    DM: "Ok, it looks like Fluffy...err, 'The Tarrasque'...Full Attacks the Cleric"
    Cleric: "Full attack my a**, that was just two claw attacks!"
    Kitten: *starts gnawing on the mini*
    Cleric: "...nevermind."

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Added void wizard VMC, Creative Destruction and Knowledge Is Power discoveries, and point out that elven battle style is a trap.
    Looking forwards to the discussion then, as I have the strong feeling we judge it on very different bases.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    In case it was already said, I'm sorry (I wasn't gong to read through the hundreds of posts to check), but you have HUGE flaw in your guide: You treated the various energy enhancements (flaming, frost, shock, etc.) as stackable, but to quote Pathfinder Core Rulebook, pg 470 (and again, forgive me for rules lawyering) "Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire... The effect remains until another command is given" (emphasis mine). This seems to rather explicitly imply that they don't stack, as a +1 frost flaming shortsword essentially deals 2d6 damage, 1d6 of which can be either fire or cold damage, not 3d6 damage. That kinda kills your plans to do +3d6 damage on each strike by making it a frost, flaming shock weapon.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    The magus's arcane pool-given enhancements do not rely upon verbal commands; they are automatically 'on' when the magus enchants his weapon.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Where is that stated?

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by digiman619 View Post
    In case it was already said, I'm sorry (I wasn't gong to read through the hundreds of posts to check), but you have HUGE flaw in your guide: You treated the various energy enhancements (flaming, frost, shock, etc.) as stackable, but to quote Pathfinder Core Rulebook, pg 470 (and again, forgive me for rules lawyering) "Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire... The effect remains until another command is given" (emphasis mine). This seems to rather explicitly imply that they don't stack, as a +1 frost flaming shortsword essentially deals 2d6 damage, 1d6 of which can be either fire or cold damage, not 3d6 damage. That kinda kills your plans to do +3d6 damage on each strike by making it a frost, flaming shock weapon.
    This rather obviously refers to the ability to the ability to extinguish the weapons energy enhancement with a command word. There is no statement that multiple energy enhacements are not compatible.

    Or to put it in another way:
    - Speak "Command Word #A1" to activate energy enhancement A. Speak "#B1" to deactivate energy enhancement B.
    - Speak "Command Word #A2" to deactivate energy enhancement A. Speak "#B2" to deactivate energy enhancement B.
    Thus, there are no conflicting command words.
    Note that you COULD have #A1=#B1, thus allowing both to be activate with the same word. This is not an issue if they are both on the same item, as you are activating the same item with them.

    Now, you could argue that there exists a general action-economy problem for a Magus using such properties, since they would have to first apply the enhancement, then activate it with a command word. This would indeed somewhat hamper the Magus.
    However, this is only if you assume that energy enhancements have a default state. Unlike most other command-activate items however, they do not equate their activation to a single instance (or even a time-limited instance) of an effect. Rather, they are toggle-abilities.
    Thus, you can simply assume that you bring them forth in a toggled-on state, since there are absolutely no rules contraindicating or disallowing such.

    Rules lawyering doesn't actually show a problem here - and most tables do ignore the command-word requirement for energy enhancement weapons anyway. Even if they didn't, RAI for the Magus is rather obviously intended to allow full application of the effect to your weapon with the swift action.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    I KNOW a dev mentioned it on the Paizo forum. Can't seem to find it, though.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by digiman619 View Post
    Where is that stated?
    Specific beats genetic. What you seek is with the Magus class core description and how the Arcane Pool works.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Then why doesn't anyone mention abusing the f--k out of this with a soulknife?

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by digiman619 View Post
    Then why doesn't anyone mention abusing the f--k out of this with a soulknife?
    I´d say "Who the eff cares about the soulknive?"

    But that is just half of the answer. Rather, it is: No too many people want to go too deeply into what 3pp made, even if it DSP-good, and think about that.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by digiman619 View Post
    You treated the various energy enhancements (flaming, frost, shock, etc.) as stackable, but to quote Pathfinder Core Rulebook, pg 470 (and again, forgive me for rules lawyering) "Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire... The effect remains until another command is given"
    By my reading, this means "if you speak the word 'fire' in Elvish, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire... the effect remains until you speak the word 'ash' in Elvish." And likewise, "if you speak the word 'lightning' in Dwarvish, a shock weapon is covered in electricity..."

    It shouldn't be read as "... the effect remains until you speak any other command word whatsoever".


    Then why doesn't anyone mention abusing the f--k out of this with a soulknife?
    Because this isn't abuse. Rather, it is the arcane equivalent of power attack. A level-5 Magus (or soulknife) has the choice of making a weapon +2 to hit / +2 damage, or +1 to hit / +4.5 damage (i.e. 1d6+1), or +0 to hit / +7 damage (2d6). In other words, drop to-hit by two points to gain +5 damage, which is pretty much the same returns that power attack gives you. Useful and versatile, certainly, but not at all abusive.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2016-02-16 at 06:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Added Bitter Heart trait, Shadow Endurance spell, Avid Reader feat, a note on buffing via a whip, and the preparation rituals for Guardian Grimoire, Tome of the Transmuter, Arrowsong's Sorrow, Book of Harms, Guide's Analects, and Six and Nine Warriors Edition. Book of Harms in particular is very powerful.

    Finally, added Puppetmaster (great debuffer, although he'll need the bard list a lot since the Magus is lacking in enchantment spells), and Deep Marshal (which is a major downgrade of your spell list, frankly; there's only a few interesting abjuration spells not already on your list, and you can just grab those with Spell Blending. Losing illusion is a big deal for a Magus!)
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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Added Bitter Heart trait, Shadow Endurance spell, Avid Reader feat, a note on buffing via a whip, and the preparation rituals for Guardian Grimoire, Tome of the Transmuter, Arrowsong's Sorrow, Book of Harms, Guide's Analects, and Six and Nine Warriors Edition. Book of Harms in particular is very powerful.
    The books are pretty good, yes. I wonder: What do you think about the Aroden and Old-Mage specific spells? (Greater) Celestial Healing is kind of a game-changer. I can well see some GMs banning Infernal Healing because, well, evil, but this one?

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    How do you see the Eldritch Archer matching up to other popular archery damage-focused classes like the Zen Archer, Gunslinger, or a Ranger (relying on Instant Enemy)? My initial impression is that the eldritch archer will be hard-pressed to match those classes' damage with her 3/4 BAB and limited spell slots. It also seems like a dip into Spellslinger Wizard or Gunslinger will be almost a no-brainer to pick up firearm training and gun-smithing without cutting too deeply into feats.

    There are also very few worthwhile ranged spells to use until 9th level when you can swap touch spells to use with ranged weapons. Basically for attack spells, the best seem to be snowball (1) and Disintegrate (6), with Scorching Ray (2) as a weak alternative to snowball when cold damage is unavailable. Do you have some suggestions for spells to poach from wizard or druid at levels 1-8 with the various options you've outlined?
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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    The Eldritch Archer basically gets extra attacks (via the Spell Strike+Spell Combat) combo.
    But basically, a Magus manages to do combat despite only having a 3/4th BAB. Going for ranged attacks does not significantly alter this in any way, except you have to take a few more feats to do it well.

    Also, you start out with usable spells at 1st level - Mudball, Ray of Enfeeblement and Snowball are all options, and you have Acid Splash for Cantrip-action.
    Your main damage spell however will likely be Stone Discus - basically Scorching Ray, but not relying on elemental damage and not allowing spell resistance.


    You are right that a single-level dip into Spellslinger Wizard goes really well with the Eldritch Archer - I have been writing a guide for that specific combo actually. I should get back on that at some point, I suppose.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Thanks Serafina. Very helpful guide. I'll comment in your guide separately with some ideas to add to it when you get around to updating it.
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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    @Kurald Galain:

    Did you already have time to read thru Arcane Anthology by now?

    Not uninteresting stuff, especially the parts on Aroden and Jatembe.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post
    How do you see the Eldritch Archer matching up to other popular archery damage-focused classes like the Zen Archer, Gunslinger, or a Ranger (relying on Instant Enemy)? My initial impression is that the eldritch archer will be hard-pressed to match those classes' damage with her 3/4 BAB and limited spell slots.
    3/4 BAB is not a problem, because your enchant weapon ability (and buff spells) makes up for it. Since the damage done by these classes is mostly due to feats, you can take the same feats and basically match their damage. You probably won't stack up to a Divine Hunter with Smite, but EA is still a highly damaging class.

    There are also very few worthwhile ranged spells to use until 9th level when you can swap touch spells to use with ranged weapons. Basically for attack spells, the best seem to be snowball (1) and Disintegrate (6), with Scorching Ray (2) as a weak alternative to snowball when cold damage is unavailable. Do you have some suggestions for spells to poach from wizard or druid at levels 1-8 with the various options you've outlined?
    The main guide contains a list of wizard spells to pick up. That said, I don't think that ranged spellstrike is the best part of the EA. Instead, I recommend doing a volley of arrows plus Grease, or Haste, or any other buff or BFC; or even Fireball. Three arrows plus fireball outdamages three arrows plus any touch spell short of Disintegrate, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serafina View Post
    Your main damage spell however will likely be Stone Discus - basically Scorching Ray, but not relying on elemental damage and not allowing spell resistance.
    You'll do more damage casting Scorching Ray normally than by spellstriking Stone Discus; because the the former is a touch attack and the latter is not (edit: assuming you're using a bow, not a gun). Replace by Intensified Snowball (also without spellstrike) if the enemy is fire resistant or spell resistant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Did you already have time to read thru Arcane Anthology by now?
    Yes, as the guide states "This guide includes all material up to February 2016, including Arcane Anthologies".
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2016-03-11 at 04:43 AM.
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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Yes, as the guide states "This guide includes all material up to February 2016, including Arcane Anthologies".
    Correct me if I´m wrong, but I haven´t really found anything from that book besides on short note on the Warrior Edition.

    Right now I´m quite enamored with Aroden´s Spellsword and Force Sword. The later because going by the spells stat block, it should be possible to use metamagic rods like Dazing Spell with it.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Correct me if I´m wrong, but I haven´t really found anything from that book
    Well then you should look again. Seriously dude, you expect me search things in the guide and make a neat list for you, when the guide is right there and your browser has a search function? Put a little effort in before you criticize people that "well maybe the information isn't really there? I don't know I haven't actually looked!!1"

    Right now I´m quite enamored with Aroden´s Spellsword and Force Sword. The later because going by the spells stat block, it should be possible to use metamagic rods like Dazing Spell with it.
    That ruling is disputed (a common reading is that the spell doesn't deal damage; the spell creates a weapon and the weapon deals damage, hence dazing spell does nothing). Absent a FAQ or errata to clarify this, my aim is not to base the guide upon controversial rules interpretations.
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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    You never take damage from the spell "Force Sword". You only take damage from attacks with a longsword, that just happens to be created via the spell.
    The spell has no listed damage.
    The spell doesn't even target a creature (it has a range of 0).
    The idea that you can apply Dazing Spell - or any other damage-triggered metamagic - to it is purely based on wishful thinking.


    And yikes, the Arcane Anthology concent was added weeks ago. There was even a list of what was added at the time!

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    I played a dex-magus in the latter half of kingmaker AP, and while I had a lot of fun with the Magus, there was one thing that I got consistently caught out on: creatures teleported to your location cannot arrive in mid-air. My gm read that to include that I could not teleport into mid-air, even if I had a fly speed. This means that Dimensional dervish pouncing, or storm stepping is not necessarily possoble against flying enemies, and bladed dash or force hook charge might be more useful in some situations.
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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by digiman619 View Post
    Then why doesn't anyone mention abusing the f--k out of this with a soulknife?
    What's the abuse? Damage that is nullified by 3.5 points of energy resistance? I'd rather have Collision and/or Linked Striking.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by Sayt View Post
    I played a dex-magus in the latter half of kingmaker AP, and while I had a lot of fun with the Magus, there was one thing that I got consistently caught out on: creatures teleported to your location cannot arrive in mid-air. My gm read that to include that I could not teleport into mid-air, even if I had a fly speed. This means that Dimensional dervish pouncing, or storm stepping is not necessarily possoble against flying enemies, and bladed dash or force hook charge might be more useful in some situations.
    Depending on the GM and the size of your target, it may be possible to teleport on top of it.

    Even so, Bladed Dash strikes me as superior to Force Hook, especially considering the latter is actually higher level.
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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Because there's never enough geeking out, let's play with charts!

    These charts assume the following:
    • The magus has a starting attack attribute of 18 and is upping it every level
    • Using an enchanted weapon (enhancement = level/4, so 0 until 4, 1 until 9, 2 until 14...)
    • Has +2 item to that attribute from the start, +4 at level 8 and +6 at level 16
    • Full attacks assume spell combat and haste if buffed.
    • Shocking Grasp is Intensified
    • Unbuffed To hit that baseline, Buffed hit uses Haste and Arcane Pool's weapon enhancement.
    • Monster AC is the average monster AC for cr equal to level -2 (easy), level (avg), level +2 (hard) or level +4 (Boss)

    Only the spells' damage is accounted, since weapon damage is the same in either case, as well as critting.



    After level 15 FB always wins as long as the hit chance on main hits is at or above 50%, and gets easier with further levels. Before that you need a much higher hit chance.
    It's also worth noticing that FB works on accumulated damage from multiple hits, which means Cold Resist shuts it down 3 to 5 times harder than it shuts down Lightning Resist.
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand any sort of bonus attacks favors FB's damage, but also facilitates landing SG. It favors FB more than SG.
    FB works out of round, like on Attacks of Opportunity.

    --I just realized I forgot to account for spell combat's -2. It's corrected now.
    Last edited by Andreaz; 2016-03-14 at 02:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreaz View Post
    Because there's never enough geeking out, let's play with charts!
    Interesting, thanks.

    That matches my experience that as soon as Haste and iterative attacks come online, Frostbite basically outdamages Shocking Grasp on anything that's not immune to nonlethal damage (which actually few creatures are).

    [*]Has +2 item to that attribute from the start, +4 at level 8 and +6 at level 16
    I don't think you'd have a +2 item at level 1; on the other hand, having a masterwork weapon at level 1 is reasonable so it's not a big difference. You can probably afford a +6 item around level 13.

    Also, I've covered Blood of Shadows, adding Shadowform, Shadow Trap, Touch of Blindness, Siphon Magic, and Molten Orb. The book isn't particularly meant for the Magus but it has some bits to steal from the wizard list.
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    Default Re: Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    That matches my experience that as soon as Haste and iterative attacks come online, Frostbite basically outdamages Shocking Grasp on anything that's not immune to nonlethal damage (which actually few creatures are).
    Haste, as you can said, is a big equalizer. Without access to haste before level 7 the charts look like this.
    Spoiler
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    Note that these numbers account for the chance to hit the enemy as accurately as one could. Even with haste, frostbite's damage per full attack is generally inferior to shocking grasp's damage per full attack pretty much until level 15, except for the most easy of the cases (where you'd miss your main attack only on a 2~).

    Against a boss-type enemy, Frostbite outdamages Shocking Grasp in only at levels 16 and 17. Against cr+2 enemies only 8 of the 20 levels favor FB's damage.


    I uploaded the chart for you to evaluate if you want.
    (the hit chance uses 105 instead of 100 to favor ties, so a hit roll = ac is counted as a hit, proof shows the chances are not skewed incorrectly by this)
    Last edited by Andreaz; 2016-03-14 at 02:30 PM.

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