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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    All items from the DMG should be listed now. I also think I'm pretty much done making small spot changes, I'll still make changes if a problem is pointed out to me, but any such change will be recorded in post #7 for easy reference.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    In post 7, you mention that an ODS file exists? Could that be shared, por favor?
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  3. - Top - End - #33
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    The old one is a mess and kind of out of date, I'm putting together a new one at someone from another forum's request and will post a link here when it's together.
    Last edited by Saidoro; 2015-07-14 at 09:23 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    Thanks!
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  5. - Top - End - #35
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    A link to the .ods is now in post 7. Someone in another forum has also volunteered to put the tables in a pdf.
    Last edited by Saidoro; 2015-07-20 at 12:29 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    A link to Inconnunom's excellent pdf has been included in post 1.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8X...ew?usp=sharing

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    Saidoro, would you be opposed to me posting here a list of unofficial (as unofficial as homebrew already is) prices for the items that won't be priced?
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    Sorry if I am wrong, but I believe that I can't find the Gauntlets pf Ogre Power anywhere.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImSAMazing View Post
    Sorry if I am wrong, but I believe that I can't find the Gauntlets pf Ogre Power anywhere.
    They're on page 171 of the DMG. They're uncommon wondrous items (attuned only) which give you a STR minimum of 19. They're basically a discount Belt of Giant Strength.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcleon View Post
    Saidoro, would you be opposed to me posting here a list of unofficial (as unofficial as homebrew already is) prices for the items that won't be priced?
    Go for it.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    What are the formulas that you use?

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    I noticed you didn't price Bag of Tricks due to brokeness. There is going to be errata per JC to fix it since it was supposed to be 10 minutes/1 at a time:

    http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/16/...tricks-errata/

    Based on that, what do you think the price should be?

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    So, what are your thoughts about Luck Blades without the wishes and things like +1 Adamantine Armor or +2 Vicious Greataxes?

    That is to say, combining weapon and armor properties. Something simple, like going from a +1 to a +2, that's straightforward of course, and even going from a +1 to a property which incorporates a +1 attack/damage is intuitive enough to handle easily, sure, but the stuff beyond that seems to be complete Here There Be Dragons territory.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saidoro View Post
    I'll put random tables on my to-do list. They're not really my thing, but I'll see what I can come up with.
    Any news on this?

    (Mind you, I'm talking about new versions of Magic Item Tables A through I, where items have been moved around to account for the changes in these tables/calcsheets/PDF.)

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkat718 View Post
    They're on page 171 of the DMG. They're uncommon wondrous items (attuned only) which give you a STR minimum of 19. They're basically a discount Belt of Giant Strength.
    I believe he knows this and is instead asking for where they are in these tables.

    I can say they're in the PDF at least. Gauntlets of Ogre Power are priced at 8000.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saidoro View Post
    The next item I found was the potion of flying. The potion of flying gives a fly speed equal to your walk speed the same as the Winged Boots do. It lasts one hour like the Wings of Flying, and can only be used once ever. The potion of flying is Very Rare. It is worth 50,000. 100 times what an item that gives precisely the same effect 4 times every single day forever does.
    What you're missing here is that the magic items were never meant to be priced on rarity, when they said no magic item shops they meant it. Take another look at how the tables are structured/pinged, and you'll find that the consumables are all stuck on their own tables. It's actually two different categories, permanent items and consumables, with each treasure set rolling some of each, not they'd ever tell you that. This is why there are "very rare" items that are still just crappy potions, because they're potions meant to be found and consumed at the same levels as "very rare" permanent items.

    As an aside, I've also begun to think the actual source of the WBL results in 3.5 was never some arcane formula that produced those swings, but actually the average results of the random tables. Because WotC really thinks random tables are a good way to balance a game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryx View Post
    One thing you'll notice: If you were to make that 5e table linear its very close to both the 3.5 and PF WBL tables.
    The end of your statement is intriguing, but I have no idea what it's supposed to mean. Do you mean like using a graphing calculator to find a linear regression (I think that's the term) based on the data points, or just looking at the ratio of starting wealth to ending wealth or something? Also, the 5e table in the DMG or the 5e table from the forum post?

    I'd also note that from my own simplified calculations, the 5e starting item suggestions for higher level characters seemed reasonably in line with the results of rolling on their tables as indicated. Dunno about the gold totals though. I'd also note that there's always been some assumption of consumables, 3.5 noted that random generation should produce roughly 10% more than required for WBL, to account for consumable use, which might account for rolled totals being higher than expected.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    The end of your statement is intriguing, but I have no idea what it's supposed to mean. Do you mean like using a graphing calculator to find a linear regression (I think that's the term) based on the data points, or just looking at the ratio of starting wealth to ending wealth or something? Also, the 5e table in the DMG or the 5e table from the forum post?
    The forum post. Look at level 5= 560g. Compare to level 6= 4,500g.
    If you were to remove the jumps based on treasure hoard is what I was saying.

    Here is a graph comparing 5e to PF wealth
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  18. - Top - End - #48
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    And this is what happens when you forget to check your subscriptions.
    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    What are the formulas that you use?
    There's no single general formula that covers absolutely every single thing, the closest thing to that is the prices of spell-like items doubling with every spell level(with a few adjustment factors for levels 1 and 2. This also impacts things like the base +X item scaling rate). If you're adding a relatively small bunch of items the best way to handle things is either to look to nonmagical ways of solving the same problem and decide a price based off of how much better the magical solution is or to find other items that do the same sort of thing and price it in comparison to them
    Quote Originally Posted by HarrisonF View Post
    I noticed you didn't price Bag of Tricks due to brokeness. There is going to be errata per JC to fix it since it was supposed to be 10 minutes/1 at a time:

    http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/16/...tricks-errata/

    Based on that, what do you think the price should be?
    Will put that on to do list.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    So, what are your thoughts about Luck Blades without the wishes and things like +1 Adamantine Armor or +2 Vicious Greataxes?

    That is to say, combining weapon and armor properties. Something simple, like going from a +1 to a +2, that's straightforward of course, and even going from a +1 to a property which incorporates a +1 attack/damage is intuitive enough to handle easily, sure, but the stuff beyond that seems to be complete Here There Be Dragons territory.
    Luck blade with no wishes will go on the to do list. For combining items, I would generally recommend that items which aren't badass enough to require attunement should be combinable without extra costs. Weapons and armor are a bit more complicated since you can only use one at a time. There are a few different ways you could handle it, the simplest one would probably just be to eyeball how "good" the less expensive of the two effects is and multiply the price of the more expensive one by some number based on that. I will think on this and get back to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by CapnZapp View Post
    Any news on this?

    (Mind you, I'm talking about new versions of Magic Item Tables A through I, where items have been moved around to account for the changes in these tables/calcsheets/PDF.)
    Oh whoops, will get back to you on that. It slipped my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    What you're missing here is that the magic items were never meant to be priced on rarity, when they said no magic item shops they meant it. Take another look at how the tables are structured/pinged, and you'll find that the consumables are all stuck on their own tables. It's actually two different categories, permanent items and consumables, with each treasure set rolling some of each, not they'd ever tell you that. This is why there are "very rare" items that are still just crappy potions, because they're potions meant to be found and consumed at the same levels as "very rare" permanent items.

    As an aside, I've also begun to think the actual source of the WBL results in 3.5 was never some arcane formula that produced those swings, but actually the average results of the random tables. Because WotC really thinks random tables are a good way to balance a game.
    I did look at the loot tables. Regardless of the availability of stores selling magic goods, items do have sell prices based on their rarity. Sovereign glue and potions of flying just selling for absolutely absurd prices compared to other items is only slightly better than them both selling and buying for those prices. Because there are actual, game-mechanical things you can spend that money on which will help you far more than those items possibly could. Mercenaries being the go-to example.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    What you're missing here is that the magic items were never meant to be priced on rarity, when they said no magic item shops they meant it.
    This point seems to have been ignored by the OP, and sadly, some people can't help themselves.

    Personally, I blame Wal Mart.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    Okay-checking the date, I don't think this is necromancy. Because I really don't want this thread to die.

    This is a very useful resource. Thanks for making it!
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  21. - Top - End - #51
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Worry not, I knida got hit by real life things which are keeping me from spending time on this, but I'm keeping track of it for when things calm down again.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    The Belt of Giant Strength is not on any of the tables. (I looked for them with CTRL+F and only the Belt of Dwarvenkind was showed up.)

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Quote Originally Posted by HarrisonF View Post
    I noticed you didn't price Bag of Tricks due to brokeness. There is going to be errata per JC to fix it since it was supposed to be 10 minutes/1 at a time:

    http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/16/...tricks-errata/

    Based on that, what do you think the price should be?
    The actual erratum ended up being that the creature disappears at dawn. Still fixes the brokenness of creating permanent creatures. Any thoughts on a price? I'm just trying to get an idea of where people think it fits relative to other items.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Nappa View Post
    The Belt of Giant Strength is not on any of the tables. (I looked for them with CTRL+F and only the Belt of Dwarvenkind was showed up.)
    In the PDF, it's in the "items that won't be priced" list:

    Belt of giant Strength: breaks bounded accuracy

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliana Solange View Post
    In the PDF, it's in the "items that won't be priced" list:

    Belt of giant Strength: breaks bounded accuracy
    Oh, I should get on that. I was gonna go price all of the items in the "won't be priced section" that would make sense to be priced (basically everything other than the plot device or wish-granting items".
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcleon View Post
    Oh, I should get on that. I was gonna go price all of the items in the "won't be priced section" that would make sense to be priced (basically everything other than the plot device or wish-granting items".
    It would be awesome if you did :)

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    While the pricing levels here do not reflect the same game perspective as the OP's, merely the act of giving them prices at all sufficiently divorces these items from said perspective.

    Parentheses indicate the price if any listed assumptions are false. All still unpriced items are thus because they are consided cursed items or actual plot devices.

    Item Price
    Candle of Invocation 16000
    Iron Flask 52000
    Wand of Wonder 13370
    Ring of Djinni Summoning 80000
    Bag of Tricks (assumes errata of 1 day duration) 6000 (60000)
    Tome of the Stilled Tongue (assumes non-artifact version) 10000 (N/A, artifact)
    +2 stat manuals 40000
    Belt of Giant Strength (Str 21/23/25/27/29) 20000/30000/50000/80000/120000
    Potion of Giant Strength (Str 21/23/25/27/29) 1000/1500/2500/4000/6000
    Rod of Resurrection 120000
    Helm of Brilliance 1000+(3000/diamond)+(800/ruby)+(300/fire opal)+(200/opal)
    Staff of the Magi 135000
    Manual of Golems 10% of materials cost
    Last edited by Morcleon; 2018-10-31 at 11:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    JNAProductions's Avatar

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    Booper dooper, this deserves to be stickied.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    I registered just to comment on this. Thanks for making it. Even if you don't use magic item shops, these can work wonders to helping a DM keep balance among the players or at least get the results that they intend.

    I had a note related to your game changing items, a way I think I've "fixed" them in my games (including the belts of giant strength and all that): I've increased the attunement slots to 4, but I make all permanent items require attunement. If someone wants to stack for AC or stack for Damage, it's possible. It's also helping me to balance TWFing with GWFing, as I'm looking into house rules to do that (where a TWFer can have two magic weapons, a GWFer can have a magic weapon and a belt of giant strength).

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Sane Magic Item Prices

    I ALSO just registered to thank you for this work! Also, I'm working on a windows program that will automatically randomly generate item shop inventories and was wondering if you wouldn't mind me using your price list for it. I can't post links but it's on github under username garylzimmer and the project is called Magic Shop.

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