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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Building a "Martial-Arts" Eidolon (Suggestions Welcomed)

    Looking for some opinions...

    So, I'm about to start playing in a friend's Pathfinder campaign and decided to play the new "unchained" summoner class. I've already choosen to play a Half-Elf for the 1/4 bonus to the evolution pool and I was wanting to go the "natural weapons" route. However, I noticed a feat called "Feral Combat Training" which allows one to be able to use a natural attack as an "Unarmed Strike". I then looked into some of the feats that require an unarmed strike (such as "Jump kick" and ect.) and realized it'd be pretty awesome to create a Martial based summons!

    That being said, how effective do you think such a summons might be and (if effective) what would be your suggestions in matters of feats and the like? Or, if it's not effective, what recommendations would you make for making the most of Multi-attack?

    Note: I've choosen Bipedal w/ Agathion for the Eidolon's Subtype. Also, (in my supreme nerdiness) I am trying to craft this concept based around the Vulpinal race and Renamon from Digimon: Tamers XD.

    ~Lynx D.
    Last edited by lynxd80; 2015-06-28 at 12:58 PM.
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    Psyren's Avatar

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    Default Re: Building a "Martial-Arts" Eidolon (Suggestions Welcomed)

    I don't see this "Jump Kick" feat, is it third-party?

    Feral Combat Training works by letting you treat a single natural weapon (e.g. a bite) as an unarmed strike for the purposes of feats and Flurry of Blows. In general, it's ineffective for eidolons because they are designed around getting many natural attacks, while FCT only applies to a single one. FCT is more for monks from a race that has a natural weapon or something similar.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Building a "Martial-Arts" Eidolon (Suggestions Welcomed)

    That being said, how effective do you think such a summons might be and (if effective) what would be your suggestions in matters of feats and the like?
    Look for the "bigger boat" threads on this forum. Focus on a single attack and boost its damage to insanity. Your main problem will be that your eidolon gains feats too slowly to make unarmed combat work (entry even requires two feats).

    As you're trying to imitate Digimon Tamers anyway maybe look for a Human Synthesist Summoner? Matrix Evolution is pretty much that. Then you can use your summoner feats for your eidolon attacks (it doesn't get feats). You have a bit less evolution points but I rather do a bit less damage than having my concept crash down upon me due to missing feats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I don't see this "Jump Kick" feat, is it third-party?
    I have a distinct feeling he or she means Punishing Kick. Mistranslation can do that to names.

    In general, it's ineffective for eidolons because they are designed around getting many natural attacks, while FCT only applies to a single one
    Uhm, I am sure you have seen the bigger boat eidolon threads, don't you?

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    Default Re: Building a "Martial-Arts" Eidolon (Suggestions Welcomed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Uhm, I am sure you have seen the bigger boat eidolon threads, don't you?
    I haven't. Have they taken the size change FAQs into account?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Building a "Martial-Arts" Eidolon (Suggestions Welcomed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I haven't. Have they taken the size change FAQs into account?
    Unsure. They abuse the fact that the spell Strong Jaw doubles the creature's damage instead of advancing the damage normally.

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    Default Re: Building a "Martial-Arts" Eidolon (Suggestions Welcomed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Unsure. They abuse the fact that the spell Strong Jaw doubles the creature's damage instead of advancing the damage normally.
    Ah, I get it - they stack size increasers in such a way as to make the creature count as Colossal before applying Strongjaw. That's a lot harder to do post-FAQ (and with the new summoner) but may not be impossible.

    Even so, my point to the OP stands - I was speaking about eidolons in general, not a specific build a la King of Smack that optimizes one thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Building a "Martial-Arts" Eidolon (Suggestions Welcomed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Ah, I get it - they stack size increasers in such a way as to make the creature count as Colossal before applying Strongjaw. That's a lot harder to do post-FAQ (and with the new summoner) but may not be impossible.

    Even so, my point to the OP stands - I was speaking about eidolons in general, not a specific build a la King of Smack that optimizes one thing.
    Link to Bigger Boat
    Thread is 3 years old this month, so no, it's not up to date per the "size increase stacking" FAQ.

    But I agree with Psyren.
    Feral Combat Training is pretty much a waste of a Feat on an Eidolon. They can get most anything they need through Evolutions. Wasting a feat to treat a Natural as an Unarmed Strike isn't going to let you do much more than you already could.
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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Building a "Martial-Arts" Eidolon (Suggestions Welcomed)

    After posting this thread yesterday, I did more research into it and realized the correctness of your comments. I've decided to go with the natural attacks and work in means to increase damage through them. You all have been REALLY helpful and I sincerely appreciate the assistance ^_^. Thank you, everyone!

    ~Lynx D.
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