Walking a full day, all day and Fatigue rules

[Red Rubber Band]

A campaign setting I am creating has a world where there is 6 months of darkness followed by 6 months of light. The darkness contains all manner of horrible things, hordes of demons, and to survive you need an incredibly resilient stronghold. The other option for any inhabitant of this land is to stay ahead of the darkness by constantly moving.

How far per day (say 16 hours, 8 hours for rest as I'm not completely without heart) would it be reasonable for PCs to travel? Remember that this is constant travelling. You dawdle one day and the darkness will catch up, forcing you to exhaust yourself the next day to outrun the horrors behind you.

I understand that travelling spells will throw a hamper into this, but that's an issue for another day.

Average human walking speed is ~5km/hour, 16 hours of this gives you 80kms/day, and in a year of 365 days that is nearly 30,000kms. Is that ok to leave as is? Assume this world is smaller than Earth (which has a circumference of a shade over 40,000km) and the line that people walk is, for the most part, unbroken.

I am not really up on the fatigue and exhaustion rules, so am not sure how badly they impact this.

[DungeonMaster11]

Well is the terrain all flat? Because difficult terrain such as up hill or through jungles will slow the party down, but if it is all flat, then that sounds reasonable.

[nyjastul69]

The rules for overland movement can be found here.

[Karl Aegis]

Back in the day, it took boats three years to circumnavigate the planet. By ground it can take 3-5 years and by air it can be done faster than a week. Around the World in Eighty Days was a movie with Jackie Chan, if I recall correctly.

[Red Rubber Band]

Well is the terrain all flat? Because difficult terrain such as up hill or through jungles will slow the party down, but if it is all flat, then that sounds reasonable.

It will be largely flat and easy to walk. Centuries of people making the journey will have worn paths through vegetation. Of course I will throw several obstacles in their way, just trying to get an average speed sorted out for generic, featureless plains to start with.

[marphod]

I am not really up on the fatigue and exhaustion rules, so am not sure how badly they impact this.

You're looking for the Forced March rules. Specifically:

A character can walk 8 hours in a day of travel without a problem. Walking for longer than that can wear him or her out

For each hour beyond 8, each character has to make a Con check (DC10 +2/extra hour); failure means the character takes non-lethal damage and becomes fatigued.

If you have access to lots of healing magic, this isn't terribly significant, as healing the damage removes the fatigue, but even so, more than 8 hours of march is pushing feasibility. PCs still need to make and break camp, eat, take 'natural' breaks, study spellbooks or meditate, and they (or someone) will need time for Crafting. RAW, creatures with land movement of 30' can cover 24 miles (38.6km) a day on easy ground. Less on rough roads or trailblazing.

Given appropriate mounts, and travelling lightly, you can push this up to 48 miles (77.2km) per day, but even the best horse is going to fail after doing that day over day.

On the other hand, they only need to cover that distance if they are at the equator; if they are at 60deg north or south of the equator, they only need to travel half the planet's circumference per year. At 45deg, its around 75% ((Sqrt2)/2).


If they all have rings of sustenance, none need more than an hour to prepare spells, and such, feel free to make them run as far as you like. For the more mortal ones, cut your circumference in half, or put them well off the equator.

[Telonius]

Back in the day, it took boats three years to circumnavigate the planet. By ground it can take 3-5 years and by air it can be done faster than a week. Around the World in Eighty Days was a movie with Jackie Chan, if I recall correctly.

The original book was by Jules Verne.

::shuffles away, muttering things about kids today and getting off the lawn::

[marphod]

::shuffles away, muttering things about kids today and getting off the lawn::

Then there was the article on Johnny Cash's career I saw a couple of months back that had a line about Trent Reznor/Nine Inch Nail covering Johnny Cash's Hurt.

[ShaneMRoth]

Assuming that walking is the only reliable transportation method...

A Barbarian with the Endurance Feat (+4 for forced march Con checks) and an 18 Constitution (+4 for all Con checks) would be the most likely candidate to survive, and it would be touch and go the entire time.

Everyone else would be swallowed by the darkness unless they were very, very lucky.

Base Speed of 40. Assume he travels light, as wearing heavy armor or anything else that slows a person down in this scenario is life-threatening.

The Barbarian can make the 80 km (48 mile... I use miles) distance in 12 hours. He will need to make four Constitution checks.

If the DM is feeling generous and allowing a Take 10 (which would likely be a house rule, as a CON check isn't clearly described in the Core Rules as a Skill) then the Barbarian would be guaranteed to make the 4 checks necessary.

Hour Nine: DC 10
Hour Ten: DC 12
Hour Eleven: DC 14
Hour Twelve: DC 16

Even this fleet footed Cardiovascular Conan will not be able to reliably travel much longer on a daily basis.

Hour Thirteen: DC 18
Hour Fourteen: DC 20
Hour Fifteen: DC 22
Hour Sixteen: DC 24.

If the DM required actual rolls every day, then there would be some days when he failed to make the full 80 km...

Also, it would be a survival strategy to leave campsites in tact for others to use. Every 80 klicks there could feasibly be enough of a campsite to where no one really had to start from scratch. Particularly with six months lead time.

There would be no point in waiting the six months to start walking. The best survival strategy would be to follow the darkness, not be chased by it. Staying as close to the trailing border of the darkness as you could.

Characters would have to be able to average 80 clicks a day over six months. Otherwise, they will not be able to outrun the darkness.

Strategies that allowed people to get rest on the move would be tempting.

If the path were a waterway, like a canal, then a boat could be kept moving at all times, and people could sleep in shifts.

Magic items that facilitated movement and increased CON scores would be life-saving.

Low level spells like Longstrider and Mount would be popular load-outs. Cure light wounds is always a popular load out.

The Phantom Steed spell is the lowest level spell I can find which, cast repeatedly, could reliably allow characters to stay ahead of the darkness.

Overland Flight is the lowest level spell I can find which, cast once, could reliably allow this.

[Troacctid]

Best strategy is to teleport, as usual.

[Flickerdart]

Assume that the people who can do magic can magic themselves out of this.

Now look at everyone else. The people? Forget the people. Think about the things they eat.

Flora? With only 6 months to recover from demon-related scouring, nothing will grow naturally. Fauna? Same deal - your average fish or deer or whatever has a very limited ability to not get scourged. Nobody driving herds is going to be able to keep up with the pace they need (and the herds can't graze anyway because everything was ruined). Stronghold dwellers can at least plant some kind of crop and then quickly harvest it before horrible death, but your nomads are pretty much screwed unless they can live off air and rocks.

Pretty much the only kind of animal life that's going to survive in this kind of thing is migratory birds, who are able to move fast enough to keep ahead of the demons, and can raid strongholder farms without being too put upon by things like fences that would keep out larger creatures. In order to sustain every nomad, you're gonna need a lot of birds. And maybe raptoran nomads that have herds of these birds. With little flying sheepdogs.

[Bucky]

If the DM required actual rolls every day, then there would be some days when he failed to make the full 80 km...

The penalty for failing a roll is 1d6 nonlethal damage, but speed penalties don't kick in until exhaustion after two failed Con checks. And our barbarian has the HP to keep going until exhaustion.

For those with more hit dice but bad rolls, they can walk 10 hours to exhaustion, alternate between 1 hour rest and one hour walking three times, and sleep 8 hours for a total of 13 hours' travel per day and 5d6 (avg. 18, max 30) nonlethal damage. They can also hustle for the first hour of each day without penalty, for a 14th hours' distance.

[Necroticplague]

If you have fast healing or regeneration, keeping up a forced march forever is fairly trivial. And technically, there aren't any raw penalties for sleep deprivation. So I suspect natural selection would make Feral humanoids incredibly common, especially considering the template also increases their speed (so not only can they keep on walking more, but they do it faster too).

[ksbsnowowl]

The breakdowns above are good. Basically, commoners will have to stay in the higher latitudes so they can do 'great circle routes' of a sort. Anything near the equator would kill them, unless this is a much smaller world than earth.

Your typical 1st level Commoner will collapse into unconsciousness after 10 hours of walking. That would be 30 miles for an adult (not outlandish to assume smaller children have a 20 foot walking speed, but let's ignore that for the moment).

A quick search shows me the circumference of the earth is 24,901 miles. Divide that by 30, and it would take a touch over 830 days for the average 1st level Commoner to walk that distance.

To be able to make the trek within a 365 day year, the commoners would have to stay north or south of 64 degrees latitude. (10,945 mile circumference; 30*365 = 10,950). For reference, 60* North Latitude is the southern coast of Finland, and Oslo, Norway. While 64* North is just a smidge south of Reykjavik, Iceland.

Factor in weather, and a commoner has no chance to even reach adulthood. Unless the planet is closer to its sun, in which case the equator would be inhospitable to humans, and you would have divergent humanoid populations near the poles.

Alternatively, your world would need to be 44% the size of our earth, by circumference (that's 8.5% the size of our earth by volume), if you want commoners able to survive at the equator. Assuming you want gravity to work by the same laws of physics that apply to us... well, the gravity will be more than what it is on our Moon, but not much.

Mercury is the closest planet in size to what I described above.

[Flickerdart]

A quick search shows me the circumference of the earth is 24,901 miles. Divide that by 30, and it would take a touch over 830 days for the average 1st level Commoner to walk that distance.

To be able to make the trek within a 365 day year...

Why does a year need to be 365 days? Instead of making the planet smaller, it could just orbit more slowly.

[Telonius]

Why does a year need to be 365 days? Instead of making the planet smaller, it could just orbit more slowly.

You know, I'm not sure they ever specifically defined a "year," even though they do base a bunch of rules off off it (age categories, some spell durations, replacing a familiar, Arcane Archer's Arrow of Death duration...)

[Bucky]

Factor in weather, and a commoner has no chance to even reach adulthood. Unless the planet is closer to its sun, in which case the equator would be inhospitable to humans, and you would have divergent humanoid populations near the poles.

The planet might not be closer to the sun, but the arctic wanderers do at least get the benefits of an eternal summer.

Why does a year need to be 365 days? Instead of making the planet smaller, it could just orbit more slowly.

The length of a year is less relevant than the length of a planetary day. If the planet's rotating just slightly faster than once per solar orbit, it could orbit once per year but have 'days' that last centuries.

[SangoProduction]

The breakdowns above are good. Basically, commoners will have to stay in the higher latitudes so they can do 'great circle routes' of a sort. Anything near the equator would kill them, unless this is a much smaller world than earth.

Your typical 1st level Commoner will collapse into unconsciousness after 10 hours of walking. That would be 30 miles for an adult (not outlandish to assume smaller children have a 20 foot walking speed, but let's ignore that for the moment).

A quick search shows me the circumference of the earth is 24,901 miles. Divide that by 30, and it would take a touch over 830 days for the average 1st level Commoner to walk that distance.

To be able to make the trek within a 365 day year, the commoners would have to stay north or south of 64 degrees latitude. (10,945 mile circumference; 30*365 = 10,950). For reference, 60* North Latitude is the southern coast of Finland, and Oslo, Norway. While 64* North is just a smidge south of Reykjavik, Iceland.

Factor in weather, and a commoner has no chance to even reach adulthood. Unless the planet is closer to its sun, in which case the equator would be inhospitable to humans, and you would have divergent humanoid populations near the poles.

Alternatively, your world would need to be 44% the size of our earth, by circumference (that's 8.5% the size of our earth by volume), if you want commoners able to survive at the equator. Assuming you want gravity to work by the same laws of physics that apply to us... well, the gravity will be more than what it is on our Moon, but not much.

Mercury is the closest planet in size to what I described above.

Surviving to adulthood? Dude, you think there are even children being born on this type of world? lol. Once you've become stricken with pregnancy, you're basically dead. And strenuous exercise every day, all day, along with the stress of demons, even if the female somehow survived, she'd have killed her unborn child.

And so, actually, the only people who will be around in a few years... decades, if others are lucky... after this starts, are the experienced mages....and those heavily blessed by their gods...because that's the only way they are getting food as well. Yeah...lol. Survival of the fittest =/= mean the fittest people actually survive, lol.

Also, something slightly less pressing, in a world of magic, with such a small mass of the planet, it would have a significantly thinner atmosphere. So, guess running's out of the question lol. Back to magic then, with their air bubbles and what not.

However...with a reduced mass of the planet comes reduced reduced weight of the travelers....but that also means muscle decay, even if you came from another world. If you were born on this world, well, you're just outa luck, as you have no special advantage for a low gravity world (outside of perhaps being physiologically adapted for it, and like...not having your eyes explode).

[And yes, I realize the bit about being able to get a longer year by the planet being further away, i just jump off from what this comment said. Also, you'd need more protection from cold the further the planet is away, which means you need to be closer to the equator. Someone needs to do the math for where the benefits of being further outweigh the benefits of being smaller (...probably want to start with where you are able to breathe....)]

[Flickerdart]

The length of a year is less relevant than the length of a planetary day. If the planet's rotating just slightly faster than once per solar orbit, it could orbit once per year but have 'days' that last centuries.

The OP specified that the demons are on a calendar, not a clock, so the length of a year is entirely relevant, and the length of the day not at all.

[Bucky]

I would assume that the main purpose of strongholds is to protect pregnant women and small children.

[SangoProduction]

Thought of a new problem, specifically with the strongholds (other than somehow surviving against 6 months of demons)...it's the darkness. Humans kinda need the sun to make vital nutrients. But, there's no rules for this, so I guess it can be ignored. Same with sun burn. ~14 hours of walking/hustling would give untold amounts of exposure to the sun.
(I'm assuming the demons basically tear up anything they come across, so no trees or above-ground shelters to protect from the sun.)

[PaucaTerrorem]

Then there was the article on Johnny Cash's career I saw a couple of months back that had a line about Trent Reznor/Nine Inch Nail covering Johnny Cash's Hurt.

That's it. Rage quit.

[Chronikoce]

Surviving to adulthood? Dude, you think there are even children being born on this type of world? lol. Once you've become stricken with pregnancy, you're basically dead. And strenuous exercise every day, all day, along with the stress of demons, even if the female somehow survived, she'd have killed her unborn child.

And so, actually, the only people who will be around in a few years... decades, if others are lucky... after this starts, are the experienced mages....and those heavily blessed by their gods...because that's the only way they are getting food as well. Yeah...lol. Survival of the fittest =/= mean the fittest people actually survive, lol.

Also, something slightly less pressing, in a world of magic, with such a small mass of the planet, it would have a significantly thinner atmosphere. So, guess running's out of the question lol. Back to magic then, with their air bubbles and what not.

However...with a reduced mass of the planet comes reduced reduced weight of the travelers....but that also means muscle decay, even if you came from another world. If you were born on this world, well, you're just outa luck, as you have no special advantage for a low gravity world (outside of perhaps being physiologically adapted for it, and like...not having your eyes explode).

[And yes, I realize the bit about being able to get a longer year by the planet being further away, i just jump off from what this comment said. Also, you'd need more protection from cold the further the planet is away, which means you need to be closer to the equator. Someone needs to do the math for where the benefits of being further outweigh the benefits of being smaller (...probably want to start with where you are able to breathe....)]

You underestimate the physical activity that women can sustain while pregnant. Someone who is already in peak physical condition and maintains that activity would not be putting sudden and undue strain on their body. The human body is massively adaptive and could cope. Especially if as another poster mentioned they were chasing the night side rather than fleeing from it. This would allow them to lose days when they are feeling more worn out and gain days when they feel better.

Food is a legitimate concern since feeding yourself does become a hardship. This could be overcome as another poster mentioned if the main source of meat is from migratory birds that stay ahead of the darkness and the main source of plant life is from stronghold production. The most defensible strongholds are likely built using natural surroundings such as mountains so I image a diet that uses lots of fungi that grow in dark, wet environments would be cultivated. Those who are runners could trade services in exchange for food. Transport in long distances in the direction of the darkness movement is a possible employment ability. If you set up a network of major strongholds around the world and had them hire runners to deliver goods they could keep each other supplied by providing any necessities not available in other areas.

Your other concerns do not really make sense in my opinion. Their bodies would have evolved to appropriately survive under the conditions of their world. Gravity and oxygen levels would not seem strange to them, rather they would be completely normal.

Thought of a new problem, specifically with the strongholds (other than somehow surviving against 6 months of demons)...it's the darkness. Humans kinda need the sun to make vital nutrients. But, there's no rules for this, so I guess it can be ignored. Same with sun burn. ~14 hours of walking/hustling would give untold amounts of exposure to the sun.
(I'm assuming the demons basically tear up anything they come across, so no trees or above-ground shelters to protect from the sun.)

Humans already live in climates on this world where the day-night cycle is extreme. Ny-Ålesund Norway has a permanent population of 35 and experiences a "night" that lasts on average 115 days. Granted it is not pitch black and they experience faint light and twilight around midday. It is still possible for humans to live under these conditions. Similarly they experience a daylight period where the sun does not set for on average 128 days.

[Keltest]

Frankly, it seems to me that the OP needs to throw humanity a bone in his setting or theyre going to go extinct. Unless the strongholds are capable of protecting massive populations and produce enough food to be self-sufficient, even theyre going to have some seriously hard times. The Nomads are going to die, period, unless theyre groups of mid-high level barbarians or other classes with enough physical ability to outrun their impending deaths.

I think the idea of just making the darkness move slower has potential, though the strongholds are still going to need some very careful planning and research.

Out of curiosity, what happens underground? Could the strongholds work like dwarven cities, farming underground food like Mushrooms and the like? Or would that just be another door for the demons to get in through?

[Jack_Simth]

Low level spells like Longstrider and Mount would be popular load-outs. Cure light wounds is always a popular load out.

The Phantom Steed spell is the lowest level spell I can find which, cast repeatedly, could reliably allow characters to stay ahead of the darkness.

Overland Flight is the lowest level spell I can find which, cast once, could reliably allow this.

If you're looking at a required 48 miles a day on average (a human walking 16 hours per day)? You want Animate Dead.

No, seriously. Horse and cart. Sleep in shifts while riding. Kill the horse, animate it as a skeleton, have it draw the wagon. 2 miles per hour... but undead are immune to nonlethal and fatigue. Thus, the wagon can go 24 hours a day. That's 48 miles. The people in the wagon? Only one needs to be awake. And if you have a method of healing the undead horse, of course, you can even have it Hustle periodically.

As to plants:
There's a lot of plants that have a life cycle compatible with only six months until destruction. As long as the seeds can survive the demons (and quite frankly, seeds can be ridiculously plentiful and durable), there would be plants. Lots of them. They just wouldn't be the stuff we're used to.

[marphod]

Surviving to adulthood? Dude, you think there are even children being born on this type of world? lol. Once you've become stricken with pregnancy, you're basically dead. And strenuous exercise every day, all day, along with the stress of demons, even if the female somehow survived, she'd have killed her unborn child.

Anthropological evidence disagrees with that. Early humans were nomadic plains-runners, and while pregnant mothers were not necessarily going to keep up with most of the hunters during their sprints, they did keep up with the tribe. Motherhood was also a lot more frequently fatal, but tribes still averaged long-term population growth.

[HurinTheCursed]

Remember the group moves at the slowest speed among its members, unequiped, a single dwarf or halfling would cut the speed of the whole group.
Horses, organized in relay can speed up a group. If there is no relay, at least 2 per character would allow mounts to take subdual damage rather than lethal damage.
Then spells like remove fatigue, mass longstrider, feathers, wind walk, teleport will help.
Ring of sustenance and easy travel armors may become a must buy !
Even endurance would become useful in such a challenge.

If they take night shift and never use survival for food, you can add 2 hours sleep for a 4-adventurer group unless elves are present. The group training called group transe (iirc) can shorten this but makes night encounters more problematic.
Some need 1h to pray or to prepare spells, some need to teach trick to their companions, some want to craft small stuff...

Another way would be to use some vehicle, probably waterborne. Those move 24/24 without fatigue and only require shift.

[SangoProduction]

Anthropological evidence disagrees with that. Early humans were nomadic plains-runners, and while pregnant mothers were not necessarily going to keep up with most of the hunters during their sprints, they did keep up with the tribe. Motherhood was also a lot more frequently fatal, but tribes still averaged long-term population growth.

But nomads never were forced to run or they die. Nor did they have to run around 14-16 hours a day. But, this is a world that is far beyond human capabilities (excluding machines)...well, some of them are...and they are often called heroes. Perhaps it would work though. Perhaps it's feasible that if this thing went on for enough generations, I'd say all nomad-born would get an implicit +4 vs saves against fatigue.

[SangoProduction]

Another way would be to use some vehicle, probably waterborne. Those move 24/24 without fatigue and only require shift.

Waterborne transportation is a no-no, unless any wreckage is cleared when the demons come by...or the stream's completely flat all the way around the world. And, while in theory, if it was, it would be faster because of 24/7 travel (it would certainly be easier on the nomads at least), most rivers that aren't freshly made (geologically speaking) have curves in them.

Of course, the spell Dig could get rid of them, but if we are bringing magic, why not just say teleport or like someone else suggested, raise dead.

[Necroticplague]

Another alternative: there could be groups where the Shadow template is common. This template makes you impossible to see in the dark, makes you a good deal faster (50% speed increase), and can grant fast healing. Seems like it's be a perfect fit for this place.